Nomad Jukebox 3 Microphone question...

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Hello, I was wondering if anyone out there uses the Nomad Jukebox 3 for
> recording loud concerts? Because I have been eyeballing this unit for a
> while now, but just a couple things concern me. I have been using a set
> of homemade binaural microphones, using the line in on my MD recorder,
> and got very successfull results. I used 2.2uf capacitors in the
> battery box when I built them (dont know if that info will be usefull
> in answering my question, but it might). Would this setup make good
> recordings with the Jukebox 3 if I used the line in? I'm just worried
> about getting clipped peaks, or overloading something and having the
> recording turn out distorted. I hope someone out there understands all
> this...

If it's a loud show then you can safely use the line input in that manner,
no differently than the MD deck. You'll never overload the inputs, in fact
the level will be on the low side, but well above the noise floor and easily
fixed with software, and for the money you won't get better results.

> Also, how reliable is the VU meter? And what is the best firmware
> upgrade for concert recording? Any info is appreciated. Thanks in
> advance!

The meter is not labelled, so you don't easily know how close you are to
clipping, but you'll be lucky to peak above -10dB anyway. I've recorded
about 20 times with a Rode NT4 (higher output than your binaurals) straight
into the JB3, no problems, and I prefered it to using cheap mixer preamps.
When it's quieter I use a Behringer MXB1002, or better yet a DBX 386 into
the optical input.

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Mike Rivers wrote:



> That's easy, and with decent mics with high output, it works pretty
> well. The "mic input" on the Jukebox (added later, not part of the
> original software version) adds 35 dB of gain to the line input after
> the A/D converter, making for a reasonable record level, but a lot
> of noise - not a very satisfactory solution.



AFTER? How typically "creative". Since Creative Labs* can be counted
on not to use A/D conversion with more bits than they're storing (maybe
not even as many), you shouldn't even need to use this feature, since
all the info it could possibly capture is already captured at low
"gain", so recording now and amplifying later is equivalent, except that
using "line level" leaves a lot more (ummm, 35 dB?) headroom.



*Bean Counters design their products; engineering and quality are
completely absent.

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In article <dr6dnSdhNdXmH2vcRVn-uw@omsoft.com> nopsam@nospam.net writes:

> AFTER? How typically "creative". Since Creative Labs* can be counted
> on not to use A/D conversion with more bits than they're storing (maybe
> not even as many), you shouldn't even need to use this feature, since
> all the info it could possibly capture is already captured at low
> "gain", so recording now and amplifying later is equivalent, except that
> using "line level" leaves a lot more (ummm, 35 dB?) headroom.

This is true, but it allows people to record with a microphone without
having to turn up the playback level 30 dB or so.

Actually, the A/D and D/A converters are quite good. I'm really
pleased with its performance at 16-bits 44.1 kHz, even being pretty
conservative with levels. But then I use it almost exclusively for
recording live events where the ambient noise is high enough to mask
any really low level material.

You can screw up any converter, particularly a 16-bit one, by
recording 30 dB too low (which is what it does when you connect a mic
to the line input) and then jacking the playback level up. That's how
they used to demonstrate the advantage of a 20- and later 24-bit
converter.

> *Bean Counters design their products; engineering and quality are
> completely absent.

I was talking with John Oram (of Trident) a couple of years back and
somehow the subject of the Jukebox 3 came up. He said he was a
consultant to Creative, and told them that he could give them a
servicable mic preamp design for the Jukebox for only about a buck a
unit, and they decided to leave it out. But it's not just about
maximizing profits, it's also about perceived value for the cost. If
they had to raise the price of the Jukebox on the street by $10, their
market research may well have shown that too many people would buy a
competing product instead.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. I've really been
doing my research on getting a new recorder for live shows because my
minidisc is becoming a bit unreliable. I missed about a half hour of my
last show I recorded. Luckly I found someone who got the whole thing.
Plus disc swaps were always a pain.



Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <oPvJd.80$iD1.31@read1.cgocable.net> nobody@home.com
writes:
>
> > But what do you do when they play for over 3 hours non-stop?! <g>
>
> Hand your Jukebox to someone sitting next to you and go out and pee.
>
> > Actually I think you've missed an update. The newest firmware
records to
> > the buffer while closing the previous file, so it only drops a few
samples
> > by starting a new one.
>
> Maybe mine does that. I've never really used the feature other than
to
> play with is. I have whatever was current (which was still a year or
> so old) back last May or so.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> >> The current version, I guess. Nothing special for concert recording
> >> other than that by pressing the Fast Forward button while recording,
> >> you'll close the file in progress and start a new one. You lose a
> >> couple of seconds so you may not want to do this between songs, but
> >> perhaps between acts in a fast-changeover or round-robin kind of show.
> >
> >But what do you do when they play for over 3 hours non-stop?! <g>
>
> You might consider using PDAudio with Live2496 and its Media Change
feature.
> You won't lose a bit and also won't have to deal with consumer-class
> recorders with their very limited manufacturing and support life-cycles.

Len, that was a joke. The JB3 can record non-stop for well over 5 days to a
$130 80GB drive if you hot-swap $35 batteries and initiate new files every 3
hours, losing only about a dozen samples when new files are started (with
the latest firmware). Cost-effective long-term recording is not an area
where the PDAudio wins. Stick to the 24/96 angle.