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Bye bye RPG: Dark Messiah will be a FPS

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Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

The new edition of the German PC games mag "PC Action" has an article
on "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic"

Forget about roleplaying. This is a plain FPS, only that you don't use
a rifle, but melee weapons, bows or magic. The "hero" is predetermined
(his name is Sareth), and there are three ways to play him, fighter,
mage or thief (hm, didn't I see such choices elsewhere already?)

And the whole thing is done with Valve's Source engine (steam,
anyone?), so the "physical correctness" seems to be more important to
the developers than an encompassing fully developed fantasy world. They
claim they would create such a thing, with a new planet, and the hero
must stop the "Dark Messiah" from destryoing it (heh, didn't I hear
such stories before?), but how much story can be pressed into a FPS?

Bye bye M&M, you were good when you lasted...

Ah yes, here a link to a picture, published by Ubisoft:
http://www.pcaction.de/?menu=browser&article_id=398262&...


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:27:11 +0200, Gabriele Neukam wrote:

> Forget about roleplaying. This is a plain FPS, only that you don't use
> a rifle, but melee weapons, bows or magic.

The game will also use Starforce, just like HoMM5. The producer of HoMM5
made it clear on the official boards that he feels that everyone who is
against Starforce is "hateful" and "a hacker".

Fun times.

M.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:56:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:56:09 +0200, Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:27:11 +0200, Gabriele Neukam wrote:
>
>> Forget about roleplaying. This is a plain FPS, only that you don't use
>> a rifle, but melee weapons, bows or magic.
>
>The game will also use Starforce, just like HoMM5. The producer of HoMM5
>made it clear on the official boards that he feels that everyone who is
>against Starforce is "hateful" and "a hacker".
>
>Fun times.
>
>M.

That's what those tiny green men keep saying about their probes too.
--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 10:50:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Michael Vondung wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:27:11 +0200, Gabriele Neukam wrote:
>
>> Forget about roleplaying. This is a plain FPS, only that you don't
>> use a rifle, but melee weapons, bows or magic.

Heretic 3 anyone?

Gamespot posted that and 2 other screenshots almost 2 weeks ago, btw

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/darkmessiahofmightmag...
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:49:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:29:46 -0500, Michael Cecil wrote:

> That's what those tiny green men keep saying about their probes too.

The Starforce thread is here:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1851065692...

Have to say that I have seen very few messages from devs that were less
professional. Yes, the thread starter is the producer of HoMM5, as unlikely
as it may seem.

M.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:24:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Michael Vondung wrote:

> The game will also use Starforce, just like HoMM5.

Isn't this a sign then that it will not use Steam?

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
August 28, 2005 5:24:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:24:54 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>Isn't this a sign then that it will not use Steam?

No, didn't the retail edition of HL2 use Starforce before a patch
disabled it?
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:24:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:47:06 +0100, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:24:54 +0200, Werner Spahl
><spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>
>>Isn't this a sign then that it will not use Steam?
>
>No, didn't the retail edition of HL2 use Starforce before a patch
>disabled it?

HL2 used SecuROM - which was pointless since the downloaded edition didn't
have the protection.

BTW, I had a problem with Starforce with the game Restricted Area: It
reported that it couldn't read the disk for some reason. The fix (which
was not stated in the error message) was to eject Disk 3 and insert Disk 1.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:46:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:24:54 +0200, Werner Spahl wrote:

> Isn't this a sign then that it will not use Steam?

*laughs* Damn, I'd take Steam over Starforce any day! :) 

M.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 10:24:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Michael Vondung wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:29:46 -0500, Michael Cecil wrote:
>
>
>>That's what those tiny green men keep saying about their probes too.
>
>
> The Starforce thread is here:
> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1851065692...
>
> Have to say that I have seen very few messages from devs that were less
> professional. Yes, the thread starter is the producer of HoMM5, as unlikely
> as it may seem.
>
> M.

In what way was the message unprofessional?
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 1:45:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Gabriele Neukam wrote:

> > Dreaming up names is hard. For my main char I resorted to flipping
> > through an encyclopedia (and found the second king of Rome). So I have
> > some understanding that people pick a name they know from fantasy
> > literature, and Tolkiens works are the best known.
>
> (snickers), you are in some way correct. I *can* "dream up" names, but
> only because I have a slight interest in foreign languages, which
> allows for combining meaningful syllables in an interesting way.

It's an on/off thing. I was quite happy with my GW elementalist Ildrinn
("fire" + "running" in ancient Norse), but other times I just draw a
blank and nothing sounds right. For a while I actually used Lords of
Midnight as a source of names
(http://www.icemark.com/gate/whoswho/charsbyrace.php) when I got stuck,
but, wouldn't you know, people even recognized Kahudrarg Kahudraksson.

> But even then, some of my characters get silly names, like my Sacred
> Demoness Infuria. In D2, I once made a typo and my sorc Sirena turned
> into Sirean (not bad, eh?)

No, not bad at all.

As for silly names, a hammer warrior I have in GW called Leif
Leifnephew (5 points for whomever can place the reference). Oh, and a
ranger called Felix Silvestris (5 more points).

> But *how* bad names can be, can be demonstrated by an episode i
> experienced about this thursday.
---
> As $Accountname."Spongebob.Squarepants" (German version, of course).
> And I couldn't change his mind.

Pretty good immersion-breaker, yeah.

Just out of curiosity, what is Spongebobs name in German?
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> Spake Unto All:

>> The game will also use Starforce, just like HoMM5.
>
>Isn't this a sign then that it will not use Steam?

Pretty safe bet. Why use a disk-based protection if you use online
registration.

Haha, well, starforce is pretty guaranteed to be cheaper to license
than steam. That it doesn't actually work but does generate a lot of
interesting support questions is just something they'll have to find
out for themselves, like all before them.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>> Forget about roleplaying. This is a plain FPS, only that you don't use
>> a rifle, but melee weapons, bows or magic.
>
>The game will also use Starforce, just like HoMM5.

Well, that's good to know. That's one game I wont buy. I will not
knowingly install trojan malware on my computer.
I'll also help anyone foolish enough to buy it find cracks, and
suggest everyone do the same.

Bah. They're using the source engine, couldn't they have coughed up
the dough to also use steam authentication instead of filty malware
like starforce?

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:29:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:

>>It'd actually be hard to put *less* story into it than there is in
>>most rpg's, like, say, Neverwinter Nights. You can put as much story
>>into an fps as you ever could into, say, a infinity engine rpg game.
>
>Isn't this mostly a mindset issue though at the design level?

Absolutely.

>IE RPGs have both story and action, but the story is the reason for the
>action, while FPSs are more about action and if they have a story at
>all, it's little more than a thin veneer on top.

That is how it should be, not how it is. The story of e.g. ToEE, NWN,
KULT, Diablo, in fact nearly all rpg's, is just as much a thin excuse
to propel you between battles as ever is the case in fps's.

The storytelling isn't the difference. The imagination and quality of
story isn't the difference. Even the worlds arent the difference. The
difference is that one uses hit-detection based on some predetermined
stat, while the other uses hit-detection based on the players eye-hand
coordination.

>Not to mention that the focus on action often also focusses on
>multiplayer "deathmatch" play which causes the levels to be optimized
>for that play and not for the story.

PvP maps are rarely the same as used in the game. If a game is
designed for PvP or PvE that shows in the maps, be it an rpg or a fps.

>Wasn't the reason that System Shock 2 could do FPS and RPG because, in
>part, that it had no deathmatch type play, only co-op multiplayer so the
>story still remained the prime focus?

It'll be difficult to have PvP _and_ a strong story, because you have
players working opposed to eachother and you want both sides to have
an approximately equal chance to win. Other than that, fps's can be
cooperative, and rpg's can be competitive. Cooperative vs competitive
isn't really a genre distinction.

>>Now if rpg's would also abandon the sad fixation on high fantasy, I'd
>>be a happy lvl 60 banana-eared dark-elf fighter-hunter named Legolas.
>
>I'm sad to say I keep seeing lots of "Legolas X" and "X Legolas" type
>names in Guild Wars.

Oh yes. A step up from 'pwnz0rs j00', but ...

>Do these people have no imaginations at all?

Dreaming up names is hard. For my main char I resorted to flipping
through an encyclopedia (and found the second king of Rome). So I have
some understanding that people pick a name they know from fantasy
literature, and Tolkiens works are the best known.

But what I don't understand is... why Legolas? Aragorn is cooler in
the movies, and although comic relief in the movies Gimli is at least
as cool as Legolas in the books, there's tons of names in the books
which sound at least as cool (Cirdan, Elbereth...) - but I haven't
seen a single one of those. So why Legolas?



--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:29:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> But what I don't understand is... why Legolas? Aragorn is cooler in
> the movies, and although comic relief in the movies Gimli is at least
> as cool as Legolas in the books, there's tons of names in the books
> which sound at least as cool (Cirdan, Elbereth...) - but I haven't
> seen a single one of those. So why Legolas?

Because of that one scene where he surfs down the steps on his shield while
loosing arrows at a frenzied pace. And to a lesser degree, that scene in
the last movie where he climbs arrows up the oliphaunt's hide then surfs
down its trunk when it falls--two of the coolest scenes any individual
character has in the whole movie series, and it's debatable whether or not
many of the xxxLegolasXxxx's have even read the books to get a more balanced
view of the characters.

At least that's what I think.

--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 8:08:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

bk039@ncf.ca (Raymond Martineau) once tried to test me with:

> BTW, I had a problem with Starforce with the game Restricted Area: It
> reported that it couldn't read the disk for some reason. The fix
> (which was not stated in the error message) was to eject Disk 3 and
> insert Disk 1.
>

I had some problems with that too, but it wouldn't read it at all (not even
disc 1). But then I did a complete reinstall and it worked. I'm not all
that impressed with Restricted Area. In fact, I uninstalled it after
getting to about level 8 on one character and level 5 on a different one.
Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance but it just seemed like a bad
Diablo 2 mod to me.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 8:15:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> once tried to test me
with:

> But what I don't understand is... why Legolas? Aragorn is cooler in
> the movies, and although comic relief in the movies Gimli is at least
> as cool as Legolas in the books, there's tons of names in the books
> which sound at least as cool (Cirdan, Elbereth...) - but I haven't
> seen a single one of those. So why Legolas?

ELFS R TEh R0xx0R dewd!!!!

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
August 28, 2005 9:44:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 28 Aug 2005 16:15:37 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

>ELFS R TEh R0xx0R dewd!!!!

Can't remember if it was posted here before, but it is funny:
http://www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t...
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 10:01:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On that special day, Mean_Chlorine, (mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk)
said...

> >I'm sad to say I keep seeing lots of "Legolas X" and "X Legolas" type
> >names in Guild Wars.
>
> Oh yes. A step up from 'pwnz0rs j00', but ...
>
> >Do these people have no imaginations at all?
>
> Dreaming up names is hard. For my main char I resorted to flipping
> through an encyclopedia (and found the second king of Rome). So I have
> some understanding that people pick a name they know from fantasy
> literature, and Tolkiens works are the best known.

(snickers), you are in some way correct. I *can* "dream up" names, but
only because I have a slight interest in foreign languages, which
allows for combining meaningful syllables in an interesting way.

But even then, some of my characters get silly names, like my Sacred
Demoness Infuria. In D2, I once made a typo and my sorc Sirena turned
into Sirean (not bad, eh?)

But *how* bad names can be, can be demonstrated by an episode i
experienced about this thursday. I decided to try if Sacred allows for
hard core play on public servers, and was helped a bit by another
character, which was a lot more advanced, but had to leave. I played on
to gain two more levels, and was joined by a wood elf, lvl 1, which was
called $Accountname."Anonymous" (this is the default entry in the start
character screen). This elf got a rune from me, than left and was
replaced by $Sameaccountname."Anonymous". This time, it was a Dark Elf.

I didn't know that Sacred allows to run several characters in the same
account, with the same name. I asked the player, if he couldn't find a
better name for this Dark Elf. He left, changed the name, and I
couldn't believe how he came back.

As $Accountname."Spongebob.Squarepants" (German version, of course).
And I couldn't change his mind.

My own Dark Elf is called "Nocsal 'l Calan" (open character), which I
do muchly prefer.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 10:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> once tried to
test me with:

> On that special day, Mean_Chlorine, (mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk)
> said...
>
>> >I'm sad to say I keep seeing lots of "Legolas X" and "X Legolas" type
>> >names in Guild Wars.
>>
>> Oh yes. A step up from 'pwnz0rs j00', but ...
>>
>> >Do these people have no imaginations at all?
>>
>> Dreaming up names is hard. For my main char I resorted to flipping
>> through an encyclopedia (and found the second king of Rome). So I have
>> some understanding that people pick a name they know from fantasy
>> literature, and Tolkiens works are the best known.
>
> (snickers), you are in some way correct. I *can* "dream up" names, but
> only because I have a slight interest in foreign languages, which
> allows for combining meaningful syllables in an interesting way.
>
> But even then, some of my characters get silly names, like my Sacred
> Demoness Infuria. In D2, I once made a typo and my sorc Sirena turned
> into Sirean (not bad, eh?)
>
> But *how* bad names can be, can be demonstrated by an episode i
> experienced about this thursday. I decided to try if Sacred allows for
> hard core play on public servers, and was helped a bit by another
> character, which was a lot more advanced, but had to leave. I played on
> to gain two more levels, and was joined by a wood elf, lvl 1, which was
> called $Accountname."Anonymous" (this is the default entry in the start
> character screen). This elf got a rune from me, than left and was
> replaced by $Sameaccountname."Anonymous". This time, it was a Dark Elf.
>
> I didn't know that Sacred allows to run several characters in the same
> account, with the same name. I asked the player, if he couldn't find a
> better name for this Dark Elf. He left, changed the name, and I
> couldn't believe how he came back.
>
> As $Accountname."Spongebob.Squarepants" (German version, of course).
> And I couldn't change his mind.
>
> My own Dark Elf is called "Nocsal 'l Calan" (open character), which I
> do muchly prefer.

It's probably because he, and a lot of other people, just do not give much
thought to the name of some stupid game character. They don't put any
effort into naming them because they don't feel it's worth any effort. It's
just a digital placeholder. It's like I got a friend who plays MMORPGs and
he mostly just uses the random name generator and goes with that. He
doesn't care.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 11:05:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

<mike_noren2002@yahoo.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1125247500.706714.30970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> As $Accountname."Spongebob.Squarepants" (German version, of course).
>> And I couldn't change his mind.
>
> Pretty good immersion-breaker, yeah.
>
> Just out of curiosity, what is Spongebobs name in German?
>
It's "Spongebob Schwammkopf". The last name's translation would be
"Spongehead".
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:20:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On that special day, , (mike_noren2002@yahoo.co.uk) said...

> Oh, and a
> ranger called Felix Silvestris (5 more points).

feliS sIlvestris is the european wild cat. I think this might still fit
a ranger, as a wild cat is in some wa a hunter.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:20:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On that special day, Andrew, (spamtrap@localhost.) said...

> Can't remember if it was posted here before, but it is funny:
> http://www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t...

I read an earlier version of that two or three sears ago. It definitely
has developed.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On that special day, Gabriele Neukam, (Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-
online.de) said...

> I read an earlier version of that two or three sears ago. It definitely
^y
> has developed.

Oops. I didn't mean that Chicago tower, of course. sorry.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:44:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 28 Aug 2005 16:08:44 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

>bk039@ncf.ca (Raymond Martineau) once tried to test me with:
>
>> BTW, I had a problem with Starforce with the game Restricted Area: It
>> reported that it couldn't read the disk for some reason. The fix
>> (which was not stated in the error message) was to eject Disk 3 and
>> insert Disk 1.
>>
>
>I had some problems with that too, but it wouldn't read it at all (not even
>disc 1). But then I did a complete reinstall and it worked.


That's an interesting solution - better than the wrong CD. :) 

>I'm not all
>that impressed with Restricted Area. In fact, I uninstalled it after
>getting to about level 8 on one character and level 5 on a different one.
>Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance but it just seemed like a bad
>Diablo 2 mod to me.

I'd agree - it was slightly difficult to get a multiplayer game up, and
when it started, it quickly destabalized as I mamnged to get outside the
mission area (outside the map). Plus, I couldn't quit normally as it
seemed to require the server's permission first (which it couldn't get and
thus remain in game). Thankfully, the game quits on ALT-TAB.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:54:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:37:35 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> Spake
>Unto All:
>
>>The new edition of the German PC games mag "PC Action" has an article
>>on "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic"
>>
>>Forget about roleplaying. This is a plain FPS, only that you don't use
>>a rifle, but melee weapons, bows or magic. The "hero" is predetermined
>>(his name is Sareth), and there are three ways to play him, fighter,
>>mage or thief (hm, didn't I see such choices elsewhere already?)
>>
>>And the whole thing is done with Valve's Source engine (steam,
>>anyone?), so the "physical correctness" seems to be more important to
>>the developers than an encompassing fully developed fantasy world. They
>>claim they would create such a thing, with a new planet, and the hero
>>must stop the "Dark Messiah" from destryoing it (heh, didn't I hear
>>such stories before?), but how much story can be pressed into a FPS?
>
>I've never understood why people think rpg's must have 16 species, 480
>professions, 3596 spells, 534545 weapons, and 745443534 levels to be
>good.

Two words: Time Sink.

Plus, rewiewers will think that the game is pretty detailed, and thus boost
sales.

>
>The source engine is more capable of implementing a "fully developed
>fantasy world" than any other engine presently out there except the
>Doom3 engine. The engines used in present rpg's are, with the
>exception of Bloodlines and Guildwars, poor, and, contrary to popular
>belief, using bad game engines doesn't actually mean content will be
>good.

Actually, developing a fully developed world requrires writing a lot of
scripts, planning, and details. Whether this engine used is Quake II/III,
Unreal, or source doesn't affect a thing - they are all equally capable of
doing the some stuff.

The Torque engine would be considered a better choice. It may need heavy
tweaking, but it supports what is most commonly used in RPGs - lots of
space and open areas, with capability for semi-detailed buildings. It
might not be the best graphically, but that won't matter when you aim for a
niche market.

>
>It'd actually be hard to put *less* story into it than there is in
>most rpg's, like, say, Neverwinter Nights. You can put as much story
>into an fps as you ever could into, say, a infinity engine rpg game.
[...]
>However, on a more philosophical level I've always felt that this is
>the direction rpg's need to go - becoming more like fps's.

An FPS RPG like SS2, or Deux Ex, has a different feeling than other RPGs.
In theroy, you should be ineffective with limited skills. In practice,
experienced players can compensate for this shortcomings by exploiting the
game mechanics. FPS games are also known to fall inte tho one-man army
principle - while not bad, it can wreck games not intended to be that way.

Project Entropia, however, feels like an RPG. The FPS portion seems to
have been given seconadry weight and simply used as an interface for
standard RPG mechanics. There are cases where exploits occurr based on FPS
mechanics, such as snagging monsters on an obstacle.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:55:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> Spake
Unto All:

>> Oh, and a
>> ranger called Felix Silvestris (5 more points).
>
>feliS sIlvestris is the european wild cat.


Spot on. 5 points awarded to Gabriele.

Also....
Felix = "the happy/lucky/fortunate one".
Silvestris = "of the forest".

:D 

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 10:05:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>>>
That is how it should be, not how it is. The story of e.g. ToEE, NWN,
KULT, Diablo, in fact nearly all rpg's, is just as much a thin excuse
to propel you between battles as ever is the case in fps's.

The storytelling isn't the difference. The imagination and quality of
story isn't the difference. Even the worlds arent the difference. The
difference is that one uses hit-detection based on some predetermined
stat, while the other uses hit-detection based on the players eye-hand
coordination.
>>>
Exactly. The real difference between an 'action' game and a 'RPG' game
is that, in an action game *your* abilities determine the success (i.e.
how good you are at moving and pointing the crosshair at the enemy).
In an RPG it is *your character's* abilities that determine it. You
just select a target and the action, if your character is good enough
or the target's armor is not good enough, the action will succeed
regardless of your 'twitch' abilities.
Which is, by the way, why D&D Online is not an RPG, it's an
action/adventure online game. So they should call it a MMOAAG.
Strange, as to many the father of RPG is the pen and paper D&D *boggle*
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 10:28:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> looked up from
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:

>On that special day, Gabriele Neukam, (Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-
>online.de) said...
>
>> I read an earlier version of that two or three sears ago. It definitely
> ^y
>> has developed.
>
>Oops. I didn't mean that Chicago tower, of course. sorry.

Heh, first parse was that you'd been playing a lot of new characters in
Guild Wars.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:03:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:
>Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:
<snip>
>>I'm sad to say I keep seeing lots of "Legolas X" and "X Legolas" type
>>names in Guild Wars.
>
>Oh yes. A step up from 'pwnz0rs j00', but ...
>
>>Do these people have no imaginations at all?
>
>Dreaming up names is hard. For my main char I resorted to flipping
>through an encyclopedia (and found the second king of Rome). So I have
>some understanding that people pick a name they know from fantasy
>literature, and Tolkiens works are the best known.

Dreaming up names is dead easy, just string some syllables together into
something that sounds ok.
It's a fantasy genre and fantasy names are like that; Ok this does
assume they have actually read a fantasy book or two to see this and not
just seen a movie.

Heck, take Bateau's nik thing "Gamera" (as seen in the IRC log he
posted), add a Bel in front of it and he's an Eddings magic user.

Heck or take your name, switch it around with a slight scramble and
you've got "Noren Kime" which would make a perfectly acceptable fantasy
name. Swap the o and e in Noren to make it even more so.

>But what I don't understand is... why Legolas? Aragorn is cooler in
>the movies, and although comic relief in the movies Gimli is at least
>as cool as Legolas in the books, there's tons of names in the books
>which sound at least as cool (Cirdan, Elbereth...) - but I haven't
>seen a single one of those. So why Legolas?

Rank stupidity I think;
"I'm a ranger, I have a bow, who can I think of that used a bow?
Legolas."

So you get Legolas, X Legolas X, XX Legolas XX, XXX Legolas XXX and so
on as hundreds of teenagers with the imagination of a garden slug roll
up a ranger.

I've been moderately tempted to make one called Legomyeggolas.

Still be better than the "X Captain America X" idiot I saw in Beacon's
Perch last night bleating for someone to run him to Droknar's.

Haven't seen a "spiderman" yet, but somehow I just know it's out there
somewhere.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:14:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:03:11 -0700, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
wrote:


>I've been moderately tempted to make one called Legomyeggolas.
>
>Still be better than the "X Captain America X" idiot I saw in Beacon's
>Perch last night bleating for someone to run him to Droknar's.
>
>Haven't seen a "spiderman" yet, but somehow I just know it's out there
>somewhere.
>
>Xocyll

There are some odd ones out there. I ran into "Real Men Wear Pink" in
the Crystal Desert.

My character names are:

Ammanas Kellanved Lvl 20 ele/mes: Fire nuker with
Domination(interupter) Game completed
Caladon Brood Lvl 15 war/mo: Hammer/Healer(but might switch to smite
or prot) Somewhere in Kryta
Prince Kazz Lvl 8 rang/necro: In Old Ascalon
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 3:36:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <3jl3h159imjgnuiu5jedk77monagagg802@4ax.com>,
Xocyll@kingston.net says...

> IE RPGs have both story and action, but the story is the reason for the
> action, while FPSs are more about action and if they have a story at
> all, it's little more than a thin veneer on top.

It's not necessary fundamentally, though. You could argue that CRPGs
are mostly about getting equipment and learning spells to fight turn-
based battles, in the cause of a (usually weak) storyline. FPSs are
about getting equipment and learning real-time tactics to fight real-
time battles, in the service of a (usually even weaker) storyline.

- Gerry Quinn
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 6:08:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Raymond Martineau wrote:

> Whether this engine used is Quake II/III, Unreal, or Source doesn't
> affect a thing - they are all equally capable of doing the same stuff.

The part where Source is top right now is character models showing emotion
while they talk etc., as can be seen in HL2 and even more in Bloodlines.

> game mechanics. FPS games are also known to fall inte tho one-man army
> principle - while not bad, it can wreck games not intended to be that way.

I liked the way Bloodlines did handle it. FPS skills mattered globally,
but stats were important to gain special features. After all I hate when
e.g. you get experience points by fighting in melee and can then spend
them to raise your ranged weapon skills. Which makes no sense at all.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 7:17:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article <1125320710.591337.278510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
wolfing1@yahoo.com says...

> The storytelling isn't the difference. The imagination and quality of
> story isn't the difference. Even the worlds arent the difference. The
> difference is that one uses hit-detection based on some predetermined
> stat, while the other uses hit-detection based on the players eye-hand
> coordination.

> Exactly. The real difference between an 'action' game and a 'RPG' game
> is that, in an action game *your* abilities determine the success (i.e.
> how good you are at moving and pointing the crosshair at the enemy).
> In an RPG it is *your character's* abilities that determine it. You
> just select a target and the action, if your character is good enough
> or the target's armor is not good enough, the action will succeed
> regardless of your 'twitch' abilities.

On the other hand, if there is any tactical component involved in
selecting armour or weapons or spells to learn, or the most combat-
useful character paths, it is *your* abilities that determine your
success. Just different abilities.

So actual role-playing would depend on what you put into it. If you
purposely have your character wear the Flimsy Chain Armour of Shininess
rather than the Rusty Plate of Near Imperviousness, because he or she
likes pretty things, you are role playing. Otherwise you are no more
depending on your characters abilities than in any FPS game!

- Gerry Quinn
!