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My Gaming/Office network needs upgrading - for network pros

Last response: in Networking
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March 1, 2013 12:24:56 PM

This ---> http://sdrv.ms/13t2uu4 is what my network is.

I'm Office 3, the picture is very self explanatory. So what I wanna do is get a good gaming/wifi router any brand any price that can handle a work load of probably 10 or more computers playing the same game at the same time with at least 2 repeater (or something that can amplify the original wifi signal, since I don't want to create 2 or 3 networks by putting up more routers). I was able to do this a while ago but lately my friends n I are getting lagged and dropped off because someone lost connection.

Also note that this is a custom computer maker shop / repairs shop and we build and create pcs here and a lot of time I have as much as 15 client's computer, and maybe 5 of them or more downloading windows updates or other stuff at the same time; again, connection drops when there is a lot of strain on the network.

I'm not a networking buff, so you'll have to explain very detailed if you're gonna get technical, especially if your gonna suggest for me to purchase a separate router, antenna and that sorts. I would like to be able to purchase things that are already on the market, I know some of you can suggest I build a router buy my skill set and time won't let me do that at the moment (unless you give me a SUPER detailed explanation).

My suspicion are that the asus router can't handle that much load and I think i would need to upgrade to a commercial grade router. Well, I can sit here and write all my speculations but they are many, even thinking of changing the cat5e to cat6 (which i know it doesn't matter).

Well, please answer this question, I've exhausted my tech friends with this questions and the conclusion i got is that I know more than them lol (so i need new friends hahahaah).

Thanks in advance - Paul from Bandi Tech
March 1, 2013 12:37:18 PM

suresh419 said:
This ---> http://sdrv.ms/13t2uu4 is what my network is.

I'm Office 3, the picture is very self explanatory. So what I wanna do is get a good gaming/wifi router any brand any price that can handle a work load of probably 10 or more computers playing the same game at the same time with at least 2 repeater (or something that can amplify the original wifi signal, since I don't want to create 2 or 3 networks by putting up more routers). I was able to do this a while ago but lately my friends n I are getting lagged and dropped off because someone lost connection.

Also note that this is a custom computer maker shop / repairs shop and we build and create pcs here and a lot of time I have as much as 15 client's computer, and maybe 5 of them or more downloading windows updates or other stuff at the same time; again, connection drops when there is a lot of strain on the network.

I'm not a networking buff, so you'll have to explain very detailed if you're gonna get technical, especially if your gonna suggest for me to purchase a separate router, antenna and that sorts. I would like to be able to purchase things that are already on the market, I know some of you can suggest I build a router buy my skill set and time won't let me do that at the moment (unless you give me a SUPER detailed explanation).

My suspicion are that the asus router can't handle that much load and I think i would need to upgrade to a commercial grade router. Well, I can sit here and write all my speculations but they are many, even thinking of changing the cat5e to cat6 (which i know it doesn't matter).

Well, please answer this question, I've exhausted my tech friends with this questions and the conclusion i got is that I know more than them lol (so i need new friends hahahaah).

Thanks in advance - Paul from Bandi Tech


So gaming is a very general term are you talking PC/mac's playing these games or consoles? Because with consoles you run into port forwarding issues with a lot of routers and the only 100% solution is multiple IP's from the provider. Computers generally have better networking code in their games and can use multiple port ranges to make better use of NAT.
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March 1, 2013 12:58:55 PM

well... its PC gaming, my picture does not show any consoles. I'm not 100% concerned with the gaming, this is all PCs, Macs, laptops, not talking about tables or phones (they work fine...), I really just don't want my system to go down when i'm repairing computers
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March 4, 2013 12:59:34 PM

here is a picture of it:

soo... anyone? bump
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a b 4 Gaming
March 4, 2013 5:47:25 PM

You really only want 1 true router in your setup. I would then place a AP or a router running as a AP connected to each switch to run the wireless users nearest those switches. You of course want to use as much wired connection as you possibly can. You only want to use a actual repeater as a last resort. The at the very minimum cut your speed in half. And now you have 2 radio signals to try to troubleshoot when you get the random interference drops and such.

You should have no issues if you are playing lan type games where you do not need connection to a outside server. If these are having issues I would be checking for a bad cable more than likely between the switches.

Now if you are playing internet based games then you must see how much capacity you have. I have seldom seen where the router itself was the bottleneck. In almost all cases the ISP could not deliver the speed on the circuit. You can test your router by pretending a PC is the WAN connection and see how fast you can copy files though it. In most cases you can easily get 100m.

That said what tends to burden a router is not the traffic itself but the number of open sessions. Things like bit torrent open a lot so if you have a lot of machines opening many session you may hit some cpu or memory limit in the router. Most routers give you the ability to monitor these values and see if you have issue with the device.
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March 7, 2013 2:08:55 PM

Thanks a lot bill, i was actually thinking of doing just that, but do you think I should purchase the access points that go with the Asus router I already and discard the netgear one? (the netgear one I WILL discard since its just behaving badly lately). I've read somewhere that its best to use the same access points or routers (acting as acess points ) from the same manufacturer and even better from the same product line.

Just a quick question that i've never been able to answer myself. If I put connect the switches as I've connected, do they all act as one big network with the same transmission speed and are controlled by the same router (in a situation where all cable are in condition)
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a b 4 Gaming
March 8, 2013 11:08:46 AM

Yes it acts a one large network. The bottleneck will always be the internet connection. In small networks like yours you will have no issues no matter how its cabled. In large networks you need to analyze your traffic so you do not exceed the connections between the switch from pc-pc transfers. And then the solution is to spend more money and use 10g ports between the switches.

That model of netgear router is liked by many people. Very hard to say seem you can get defective devices from any manufacture.

Matching the brands I doubt will help. First thing is you are going to disable most the features when you make it into a AP so it does not pay to buy real fancy routers and then disable all thing you just paid extra for. The AP will not talk to each other in any way. They may detect each others signal but how they deal with this is dictated by the 802.11 standards so all brands work the same. The only benefit to keeping the devices the same is more your ability to maintain them. It is much easier to be a expert on one that on 5 or 10.

On consumer gear you can never trust that the manufactures stay the same even on the same exact product. A number of year back netgear ( i think) changed the chipset in a router. The new chipset did not support dd-wrt but the old one did. The only way to tell the difference before you bought it was to look at the serial number...theory was one of their manufactures had gone to the new part but others were still using the old one until they used them all up.
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March 8, 2013 11:50:06 AM

You know i forgot to mention that i do not plan on changing the netgear switches, just the netgear router, and im 100% on that decision. So, i wanna put 2 ap on each room, which ones would u recommend me, note that i also have 5ghs bands here too, and sometimes it works better than the 2.4ghz because i have a lot of other wifi devices like mice keyboards, old laptops that come in for repair and such, so should i buy the Asus ap from this same line??
Please recommend me a good one. I believe i will buy a bigger switch for the other room too. Any way to specifically configure the ap advice is also welcomed since i haven't dealt with them in long time
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a b 4 Gaming
March 8, 2013 12:59:41 PM

If you like the Asus then its as good as a netgear/linksys or even tplink. It is mostly a money question. Which exact asus depends which radio features you really think you need.
Most this difference is related to mimo support...ie the boxes say 300m or 450m. This feature does no good if you nics do not support it.

Since you are going to run 2 AP /room I would go with 1 cheap 2.4 only band and use it for any old devices. I would then get dual band router that has the word "simultaneous" in the description. They also say things like 150+150 or 300+300 which means both the 2.4 and 5g radio run at the same time. These I would lock to wide band and N only support both on the 2.4 and the 5
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March 8, 2013 3:05:45 PM

this is news to me, this "simultaneous", let me see if i get you. I know that many routers run both bands at the same time and you chose on your pc which one you'll use, either 2.4 or 5, but you're saying that they send the same signal to one nic??? i think i misunderstood u, i just don't think its possible.

my asus router is 450m i believe, and they have the ap that are dual band 450m too, money is no problem to me, i just want it to work seemlessly (although seemlessly is word barely used with networking lol). You say that you'd rather use a netgeat, linksys or tplink ap (and routers)? link me to a recommendation or just tell me the model.
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a b 4 Gaming
March 8, 2013 3:30:59 PM

No you can run DIFFERENT pc to the router some on 2.4 and others on 5. It is the router the is simultaneous. There are cheap dual band routers that you must choose 2.4 OR 5 when you set it up.

I like the ASUS also my latest is a N66U but that is mostly because I run dd-wrt on it. I tend to stay away from specific recommendations because someone may find this thread in a week and it could be invalid. I used to like the linksys but then cisco went to cloud only configuration which I will not use and now they sold it all to belkin so who knows what that means to quality.

If you read the reviews on amazon or newegg you will find every major router with a lot of people that had issues with it. Some are idiot users but it seems every product has some sudden death or develops sudden wireless disconnects. Pretty much I have found all the major brands work about the same...even things like buffalo or tplink I have not had issues with but maybe I was just luckier than some people who have major issues with buffalo.



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March 11, 2013 1:57:55 PM

thanks a lot bill, I will go to newegg and amazon (also my top tech shops) and see what I get. maybe i'll get the asus ap and get it over with. BTW, one last question.
Let's say I install these 2 ap from asus on my network, would the wifi signal from AP 1, AP 2, and original router be ON THE SAME NETWORK? like "PC X" on AP 1 can see "PC Y" on router's wifi or AP 2? I assume THIS IS THE POINT of a ap, right? if it where router then THAT would be a different network right, cuz that's my experience.

Thank you a lot
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March 11, 2013 2:41:38 PM

Just FWIW. Looking into your configuration diagram, your bottleneck is going to be, and this shouldn't shock anyone, your ISP connection. Having said that, each and every single one of those uplink lines from a satelite switch means that ALL the traffic on that switch has to jam into one line to go up to the next.

I don't have time to futz with it today, but I will try to get you a diagram of how better to utilize the gear you have to maximize your avaialble bandwidth. The best thing honestly to do would be to put everything you could on a larger single Gigabit Switch, get DD-WRT installed on that Asus router, and configure the LAN ports for ethernet bonding so you have 4 1GB ports talking to the same destination at the same time. Uplink those to your switch, (assuming your switch can handle bonded interfaces of course), and then try to ram all of that down your cable internet. You are still going to be frustrated to no end trying to play games, pull patches on 15 boxes or so simultaneously. Kind of like rush hour traffic, you only have so many lanes...
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March 12, 2013 9:19:29 AM

Sorry, no pretty picture here, but after reviewing the hardware in question, you have a rats nest of mixed hardware with varying speed operation you are dealing with there.

The Asus RT-N65u operates Wireless N at 300 mb/s in the 2.4 ghz band, and 450mb/s in the 5ghz band. Wired connectivity is 10/100/1000.

The Netgear WNDR3300 operates only in the 2.4 ghz band at 300 mb/s, and wired ethernet is mere 10/100.

The Netgear switch is a little bit of a mystery as the model number you give does not map to a current NetGear product, however similar named products (GS116NA, GS116E etc...) are 16 port gigabit devices. I assume yours is as well.

Wireless signals are notoriously interference prone, particularly in the 2.4ghz band, and the 5ghz band is known for short range. That Asus router you have is actually a fair / good device for what it is. But being wireless you trade off convenience for reliability...

Like I mention in my prior email your issue really is the mix of switches, routers etc... Uplinks that are all shared, and such nonsense.

If this were MY network, I would...

#1. Keep the Asus router. Upgrade it to the DD-WRT firmware.
#2. Replace the 16 port gigabit switch with a TrendNET TL2-G244 or similar switch. (Switch MUST be configurable ton support channel bonding / trunking).
#3. Configure ethernet channel bonding on the router, bind all 4 LAN ports to allow you to uplink 4gb/s to the switch. (theoretically anyway).
#4. Run new, Category 6 cable with properly terminated ends to each ethernet client.
#5. You mention you have cable internet service. Remember you will only be able to play online as fast as your internet service can provision. That WAN uplink (cable modem / connection) is your bottleneck.
#6. If at some point you need to increase your ethernet port density, add a second 24 port switch, that supports channel bonding / port trunking.

Mind you, trunking at the least uses 2 ports per switch, but doubles, triples, quadruples etc... your throughput. it can get costly, but as the old saying goes. Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

Even with a lightning fast LAN, I am not sure how fast your Cable service provisioning is... But I am on 50/10 and I wouldn't put the load on it you are talking about... You really need something more along the lines of a dedicated line service...
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