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CoH: Did they really nerf AoE attacks?

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September 15, 2005 5:25:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
of it in their update notes.

More about : coh nerf aoe attacks

Anonymous
September 15, 2005 5:25:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I5 is the best thing that has ever happened in CoH since, well, since
release. Has made the game much more fun and exciting. The new
mission types are quite fun and different than what we're used to. The
new powersets are cool too.

shadows wrote:
> I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
> heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
> mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
> of it in their update notes.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 10:40:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:
> I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
> heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
> mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
> of it in their update notes.

It's true.

I have to say, though, that if you're soloing, 16 is more than enough to
hit everything you're fighting (heck, so are 10 and probably 5). By the
time spawn sizes are large enough that your AoEs can't hit everything,
you -shouldn't- be handling them all yourself anyway.

Despite all the fuss people kicked up, I quite liked Issue 5. I got
through 45-50 faster than I did 40-45 pre-I5, doing just the same
things. I'm now trying out a Peacebringer - got my Nova form last night
and am favourably impressed.

Also, more City of Villains information has been coming out recently.
It looks rather good.

Cheers,
Grant


From the update notes (http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/updates.html):
Set a maximum number of targets that can be affected by most offensive
powers:
Ranged AoE and Large PBAoE damage powers (like Nova), Ranged AoE and
PBAoE Debuffs, Ranged AoE and PBAoE Controls powers are all set to 16.
Ranged cones, and Melee AoE (PBAoE) are set to 10.
Melee Cones are set to 5.
Taunts (including Tanker inherent Taunt - Gauntlet, aka 'PunchVoke') are
set to 5.
Buffs are unaffected.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 1:02:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

create a new toon inVirtue or Freedom
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 3:28:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
> In addition, they have started adding in combination attacks. With the Oil
> Slick power from the Trick Arrow set, if you hit the oil slick with a fire-
> based power, you can light it on fire, causing fire damage to the mobs. CoV
> will be coming out with more of that, and Geko has said that he wants to
> include more of that to CoH as well.

This sounds very tasty. If there are enough powers that can have
secondary effects depending on what other powers are in play, it could
really add to the depth of strategies depending on who you've got in
your team. I might resub if they keep adding stuff like this.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 4:19:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

As long as the enemy has these same tricks I'm all for it. I think
heroes are way too powerful already, no need to give them even more
power :) 

Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
> "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1126895337.434545.301930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
> >> In addition, they have started adding in combination attacks. With
> >> the Oil Slick power from the Trick Arrow set, if you hit the oil
> >> slick with a fire- based power, you can light it on fire, causing
> >> fire damage to the mobs. CoV will be coming out with more of that,
> >> and Geko has said that he wants to include more of that to CoH as
> >> well.
> >
> > This sounds very tasty. If there are enough powers that can have
> > secondary effects depending on what other powers are in play, it could
> > really add to the depth of strategies depending on who you've got in
> > your team. I might resub if they keep adding stuff like this.
>
> So far, this is the only such combination in the game. They are supposed
> to be adding more with the CoV ATs.(IIRC) Geko has mentioned some cool
> ones he would like to add:
>
> *****
> 4. Will it be possible one day to create a power combo with some other
> AT? For example, a Blaster + a Controller creating a big energy blast
> which can knock back more enemies..
>
> I think you may start seeing more things like Trick Arrow/Oil Slick. This
> power drops an oil slick on the ground that causes enemies to slip and
> fall, but the Oil Slick can be targeted by you and your allies. If hit by
> a fire power, the Oil will ignite on fire, causing damage to foes trapped
> inside. I think you may see more powers in the future that will take
> advantage of tricks like this. Maybe something like a water power - if it
> is hit with an electrical attack, it electrocutes all foes inside, but if
> it is hit with a cold attack, all foes freeze, but it its hit with a fire
> attack, a steamy Mist will form.
> *****
>
>
>
> --
> Marcel
> http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
September 16, 2005 6:28:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-09-16, wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> As long as the enemy has these same tricks I'm all for it. I think
> heroes are way too powerful already, no need to give them even more
> power :) 

That's what makes them heroic.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 6:37:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
: I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
: heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
: mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
: of it in their update notes.

AOEs got nerfed and some ATs, noticably Blasters and Trollers got
some buffing. Some AT, Tanks and Scraps, got a proctological exam
with the rusty barbed wire end of the nerfbat. Defs, depending on
power choices and build, either came out uscathed or plughed.

K
September 16, 2005 6:37:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-09-16, Hippie Ramone <kdeacon@scrye.com> wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>: I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
>: heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
>: mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
>: of it in their update notes.
>
> AOEs got nerfed and some ATs, noticably Blasters and Trollers got
> some buffing. Some AT, Tanks and Scraps, got a proctological exam
> with the rusty barbed wire end of the nerfbat. Defs, depending on
> power choices and build, either came out uscathed or plughed.

I resubbed after spending a month not playing an MMO and
realizing my life is empty unless I have something to level
on. The last time I was on CoH I unsubbed the very same evening I
had gone back. It just felt dull.

I resubbed deciding that this time I would give the game a
chance. The missions have improved somewhat but little else has.

As for I5: I found the Blaster "Defiance" trait to be quite
useless. After your health goes under 50% you start getting
bonuses to damage output. It's not very noticeable until you're
at 5% health where you get 400% bonus (or x 4). You only have one
shot when you're health is that low.

I'm going to give it a chance anyway and keep trucking. I did
notice that on the Infinity server the population is quite low.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 6:43:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
: I5 is the best thing that has ever happened in CoH since, well, since
: release. Has made the game much more fun and exciting. The new
: mission types are quite fun and different than what we're used to. The
: new powersets are cool too.

I personally think I5 was horribly misguided and way over the top on
nerfage where the nerfage occured. I haven't yet been to Croatoa and
I'm not really planning on going there unless there is some badge farming
to be had, like Striga was a good place to get the Vampire and Werewolf
badges fairly easily.

I've mostly been playing a new grav/rad troller toon instead of my L28+ toons
because of the nerfage. I have got to say that the "escort" missions are
reallly really freakin annoying and only serve the purpose of making door
missions take longer. /rude Cryptic.

All in all I've got to say that I5 has made me play EQ more again.

K
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 9:30:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in
news:slrndijf4l.18jt.shadows@helena.whitefang.com:

> I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
> heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
> mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
> of it in their update notes.


Like others have said, both cone and AoE attacks have been reduced to a
limit on what they can hit. (5 and 16, respectively IIRC)

In all practicality, this has no effect on anyone except for those who herd
entire missions.

AT-wise, it all depends on who you talk to. The official forums were pretty
balanced between those who think that tankers/scrappers got hosed and those
who say their tankers/scrappers can do exactly the same as before.

I think that it all comes down to your PoV. I5 appears, IMO, to be bring
CoH away from a mindless clickfest (power 1, power 2, power 3, repeat, and
add in power 4 when it recharges) to something that requires a bit more
strategy.

In addition, they have started adding in combination attacks. With the Oil
Slick power from the Trick Arrow set, if you hit the oil slick with a fire-
based power, you can light it on fire, causing fire damage to the mobs. CoV
will be coming out with more of that, and Geko has said that he wants to
include more of that to CoH as well.

--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
September 16, 2005 9:30:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-09-16, Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote:

> Like others have said, both cone and AoE attacks have been reduced to a
> limit on what they can hit. (5 and 16, respectively IIRC)

I haven't been affected by it yet but I only got my fire/fire
blaster to level 10 yesterday night. I deleted all my old high
level characters to get a fresh start.

> In all practicality, this has no effect on anyone except for those who herd
> entire missions.

I used to herd sometimes when I was bored. A friend would SS
through and I'd firebreath/fireblast and to be honest it was
hilarious to watch. Granted that it's a quasi cheat but not a
real cheat since I'm still operating within the game mechanics, I
think the AoE nerf is typical of the CoH dev mindset. They should
have made their mobs smarter.

I believe WoW made it so training wasn't possible at all because
mobs would run back and regen all their health if you ran away
too far.

> In addition, they have started adding in combination attacks. With the Oil
> Slick power from the Trick Arrow set, if you hit the oil slick with a fire-
> based power, you can light it on fire, causing fire damage to the mobs. CoV
> will be coming out with more of that, and Geko has said that he wants to
> include more of that to CoH as well.

This is good news. The question is how soon will we see this
happen on a large scale in CoH. They've averaged an update once
every two months and most of the "content" consists of nerf bats
being swung.

Maybe I just like to bitch :) 
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 10:50:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1126895337.434545.301930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>
> Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
>> In addition, they have started adding in combination attacks. With
>> the Oil Slick power from the Trick Arrow set, if you hit the oil
>> slick with a fire- based power, you can light it on fire, causing
>> fire damage to the mobs. CoV will be coming out with more of that,
>> and Geko has said that he wants to include more of that to CoH as
>> well.
>
> This sounds very tasty. If there are enough powers that can have
> secondary effects depending on what other powers are in play, it could
> really add to the depth of strategies depending on who you've got in
> your team. I might resub if they keep adding stuff like this.

So far, this is the only such combination in the game. They are supposed
to be adding more with the CoV ATs.(IIRC) Geko has mentioned some cool
ones he would like to add:

*****
4. Will it be possible one day to create a power combo with some other
AT? For example, a Blaster + a Controller creating a big energy blast
which can knock back more enemies..

I think you may start seeing more things like Trick Arrow/Oil Slick. This
power drops an oil slick on the ground that causes enemies to slip and
fall, but the Oil Slick can be targeted by you and your allies. If hit by
a fire power, the Oil will ignite on fire, causing damage to foes trapped
inside. I think you may see more powers in the future that will take
advantage of tricks like this. Maybe something like a water power - if it
is hit with an electrical attack, it electrocutes all foes inside, but if
it is hit with a cold attack, all foes freeze, but it its hit with a fire
attack, a steamy Mist will form.
*****



--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 11:44:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hippie Ramone wrote:
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
> : I considered going back despite my best judgement, however I
> : heard that they nerfed AoE attacks to have a limit on how many
> : mobs get hit by it. Is this true? I can't find specific mention
> : of it in their update notes.
>
> AOEs got nerfed and some ATs, noticably Blasters and Trollers got
> some buffing. Some AT, Tanks and Scraps, got a proctological exam
> with the rusty barbed wire end of the nerfbat. Defs, depending on
> power choices and build, either came out uscathed or plughed.

Well, Controllers got Containment, which gives them double damage
against Held things - just them, though, not pets/teammates.

However, AoE holds had their duration halved and their recharge doubled.
Also, pets got limited to one out at a time (or 3 Phantoms/Fire Imps).

So it was swings and roundabouts for us Controllers. Most Controllers
opted for saying Doooom. I found that I actually leveled faster after
I5 went live, though. My Controller hit 50 a few days back (and I've
started a Kheldian on Infinity, and just got my first form change power).

Scrappers got 12.5% (or thereabouts) bonus damage on all attacks.
Scrappers are/were meant to be melee Blasters - enormous damage, with
just enough defence to keep them alive while they kill stuff. Not
almost-Tanker defence with enormous damage. So their defence got
lowered a bit. Mind you, all defence got lowered, and so did the
Villains' accuracy. I haven't seen/looked for the numbers yet to see
how Scrapper/Tanker Defence got lowered relative to enemy accuracy.

Cheers,
Grant
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 12:02:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:

> This is good news. The question is how soon will we see this
> happen on a large scale in CoH. They've averaged an update once
> every two months and most of the "content" consists of nerf bats
> being swung.

I Googled to see what happened when.

Issue 1 raised the level cap to 50. So that must've involved adding at
least Peregrine Island, the Portal missions and a bunch of
Arch-villains. Also, the Rikti Crash Site and the Sewer Trial, and
outdoor instances. Malta, Carnival and changing costumes.

Issue 2 added the Shadow Shard and the Hollows, and capes and auras.
Power Respecs, badges, and the Eden and Cavern of Transcendence trials.

Issue 3: Striga Isle and the Council. (Striga's really well done, have
you been there yet? I can't remember when you unsubbed). The Octopus
and Ghost Ship in IP. Kheldians and Ancillary Power Pools.

Issue 4: The Arena (which I still haven't tried), new costume options,
minor tweaks. Probably the least interesting update for me.

Issue 5: Croatoa. Archery, Trick Arrows, Sonic Blast and Sonic
Resonance. Hellions setting fire to buildings, Trolls getting drugged
up in Skyway, new mission types (wave attacks, escorting, etc.)

Apart from Issue 4, I think they were pretty solid. And I guess Issue 4
was the most interesting for people who like PvP :-) To each their own.

Cheers,
Grant
September 17, 2005 12:54:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com>, 16 Sep 2005 11:28:57 -0700,
Anno Domini:

>
>Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
>> In addition, they have started adding in combination attacks. With the Oil
>> Slick power from the Trick Arrow set, if you hit the oil slick with a fire-
>> based power, you can light it on fire, causing fire damage to the mobs. CoV
>> will be coming out with more of that, and Geko has said that he wants to
>> include more of that to CoH as well.
>
>This sounds very tasty. If there are enough powers that can have
>secondary effects depending on what other powers are in play, it could
>really add to the depth of strategies depending on who you've got in
>your team. I might resub if they keep adding stuff like this.
>
>Knight37

Ditto ;) 

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:47:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

shadows wrote:
> On 2005-09-16, Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote:
>
> > Like others have said, both cone and AoE attacks have been reduced to a
> > limit on what they can hit. (5 and 16, respectively IIRC)
>
> I haven't been affected by it yet but I only got my fire/fire
> blaster to level 10 yesterday night. I deleted all my old high
> level characters to get a fresh start.
>
> > In all practicality, this has no effect on anyone except for those who herd
> > entire missions.
>
> I used to herd sometimes when I was bored. A friend would SS
> through and I'd firebreath/fireblast and to be honest it was
> hilarious to watch. Granted that it's a quasi cheat but not a
> real cheat since I'm still operating within the game mechanics, I
> think the AoE nerf is typical of the CoH dev mindset. They should
> have made their mobs smarter.
>
Well that is an 'ok' herd. The problem with herding was when a tanker
would aggro the whole mission, and since they were untouchable, really
let's face it, they could just come back to his teammates and spam
provoke on the mobs, so the blasters and scrappers could dispose of 60+
mobs in seconds without any danger. After the update, tankers in my
group still tried to do the same thing, but when they realized they
actually *gasped* died when being attacked by 60+ mobs 1-3 levels above
them (go figure), are now doing it in more reasonable levels, like
10-20 at a time, and getting to the group with half life or so. And
with the AoE limits, fights take now more than the 3 seconds they took
before, so mobs have now more chance to actually attack someone else.
All in all, these are much more fun fights now.

> I believe WoW made it so training wasn't possible at all because
> mobs would run back and regen all their health if you ran away
> too far.
>
I agree they should do the same thing here too. Regen health when
they're not being attacked.
!