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Thanks to the GW Players

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 16, 2005 5:36:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Hi there! I've been lurking for a bit, and after all the mostly
positive comments about Guild Wars, I went out and bought it last
night. The idea of a MMO being completely free to play online really
appealled after WoW (and an awful week with RYL). Wow... this is an
amazing game! The graphics are the best I've seen out of any game.

The instanced world is an interesting concept, but I'm not sure how
much I like it yet. I don't like that I have to wait around spamming
for a group in town instead of meeting up during a run, but it does
make the group that much more close-knit when you click with someone. I
guess that helps develop the guild aspect of the game as you build up a
group you play with often. I haven't seen too many l33ts running around
being jerks like mentioned, but then I don't hang around too long in
towns.

The instant teleport is a great idea. If I've made it to a spot on the
map, chances are very good I can make it back to where I started, so
why not let me skip the travel?

I wish there was active PvP during the RPG portion. I like the way WoW
does this. But that would prevent the instanced world from being
possible, I guess.

The amount of quests is great. I just wish the quests were more
original with the rewards beyond the skills you can earn. Why would I
want yet another staff? The quests themselves could be more original,
too. The event-type quests are alot of fun, though. Maybe that'll pick
up as I play, dunno.

Interesting and reasonably difficult combat! I have to use more than
one skill all the time to win. And that is unlike any other RPG I've
ever played. At least that's how it is w/ the Necro/Monk I've played.
It would be even more so if I can find a group. :-P

Only one other possible party member in my group? I can understand that
in terms of play balance, I guess, but what if I wanted to play with a
larger group of friends? This changes, I hear?

Upgrade system good, equipment system ok. Every piece of equipment in
all RPGs seems to be the same to me. I wish my pet (the skeleton or
whatever) would regenerate instead of degenerate. Seems to be almost
useless so far, except for quests that require a sacrifice. The idea of
allowing the skipping of the RPG elements but making RPG worthwhile is
a great, great, GREAT idea, and I hope all PvP games take notice.

All in all, alot of fun so far! But it doesn't feel like a MMO without
it being massively-multiplayer. I can't wait to try out the PvP
content! Thanks for all the good words about a great game.

-Arccos

Currently MMOs:
World Of Warcraft
A Tale In The Desert
Guild Wars

More about : players

September 17, 2005 3:58:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:55:51 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
wrote:

>You can go surprisingly far in the game with no other players at all,
>although the intense stupidity of the henchmen can get very trying at
>times.

Some real people you can end up playing with make you dearly wish you
had brought henchmen along instead!
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 17, 2005 6:46:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "arccos" <arccos@hotpop.com> Spake Unto All:

>amazing game! The graphics are the best I've seen out of any game.

Yes, I agree. It's not the most advanced graphics (I guess Doom3 holds
that title) but it is IMO the prettiest.

>ever played. At least that's how it is w/ the Necro/Monk I've played.
>It would be even more so if I can find a group. :-P

Finding groups can be a pain, at least if you're a mesmer or necro.
Necros and mesmers (and to a lesser degree rangers) are neither
nukers, tankers or healers, and simply don't fit in the mindset of
many players.

>Only one other possible party member in my group?

That's just at the very beginning. Party size will increase rapidly up
to 6, and finally 8.

>all RPGs seems to be the same to me. I wish my pet (the skeleton or
>whatever) would regenerate instead of degenerate.

You'll get skills to keep them alive later on. You can also e.g. put
mending on them.
However, you also get skills which do pretty amazing amounts of damage
(or healing) upon the death of a minion, so you'll find that you don't
always want to keep them alive.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Related resources
September 17, 2005 12:52:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake "arccos" <arccos@hotpop.com>, 16 Sep 2005 13:36:28 -0700, Anno
Domini:

>Hi there! I've been lurking for a bit, and after all the mostly
>positive comments about Guild Wars, I went out and bought it last
>night. The idea of a MMO being completely free to play online really
>appealled after WoW (and an awful week with RYL). Wow... this is an
>amazing game! The graphics are the best I've seen out of any game.

YMW Arccos! ;-)

>The instanced world is an interesting concept, but I'm not sure how
>much I like it yet. I don't like that I have to wait around spamming
>for a group in town instead of meeting up during a run, but it does
>make the group that much more close-knit when you click with someone. I
>guess that helps develop the guild aspect of the game as you build up a
>group you play with often. I haven't seen too many l33ts running around
>being jerks like mentioned, but then I don't hang around too long in
>towns.

You're lucky so far then. It is easy to ignore them, but they're about.

>The instant teleport is a great idea. If I've made it to a spot on the
>map, chances are very good I can make it back to where I started, so
>why not let me skip the travel?

Yup. :) 

>I wish there was active PvP during the RPG portion. I like the way WoW
>does this. But that would prevent the instanced world from being
>possible, I guess.

I don't miss it, but then I played a lot of CoH & EQ2 mainly recently - no
PvP :) 

>The amount of quests is great. I just wish the quests were more
>original with the rewards beyond the skills you can earn. Why would I
>want yet another staff? The quests themselves could be more original,
>too. The event-type quests are alot of fun, though. Maybe that'll pick
>up as I play, dunno.

Yeah, could be a bit more variety - the post-searing missions (if you've
Gone To War yet) is where the real game happens & there are great cut scenes
in the main storyline missions, plus all sorts of quest types as you get to
levels 10+. Enjoy the ride!

>Interesting and reasonably difficult combat! I have to use more than
>one skill all the time to win. And that is unlike any other RPG I've
>ever played. At least that's how it is w/ the Necro/Monk I've played.
>It would be even more so if I can find a group. :-P

Heh - it's a 2-way street. We've started a guild of sorts for this group -
let me know your main char's name & I'll send you a guild invite (if I can
while you're offline). We also have a weekly team game which will hopefully
expand to other guild activities down the track. My char is "Nostromo the
Alien" - put me on your flist & we'll bump into each other eventually ;) .

>Only one other possible party member in my group? I can understand that
>in terms of play balance, I guess, but what if I wanted to play with a
>larger group of friends? This changes, I hear?

You get 4 after just 1 mission in post-searing & 6 soon after. 8 is in the
2nd part of the game I believe.

>Upgrade system good, equipment system ok. Every piece of equipment in
>all RPGs seems to be the same to me. I wish my pet (the skeleton or
>whatever) would regenerate instead of degenerate. Seems to be almost
>useless so far, except for quests that require a sacrifice. The idea of
>allowing the skipping of the RPG elements but making RPG worthwhile is
>a great, great, GREAT idea, and I hope all PvP games take notice.

The minions get better & last longer as your Death Magic skill increases, so
you can have more of them out. There are also regen skills to keep them
alive longer later on. Personally, I hate the degen thing too - wish there
was a way to keep them for the life of a zone instance, or some way to top
them up (combat dmg they inflict?). There are good AOE healing/regen skills
you get later on that keep them around for a very long time (with 10+ in
Death Magic). Glad I picked N/Ranger so I always have at least one pet
around ;-p

>All in all, alot of fun so far! But it doesn't feel like a MMO without
>it being massively-multiplayer. I can't wait to try out the PvP
>content! Thanks for all the good words about a great game.

Just jump in - you can put together a basic 20th char for free - you just
won't have any unlocked Elite skills, but you can still have a bash! ;) 

>-Arccos
>
>Currently MMOs:
>World Of Warcraft
>A Tale In The Desert
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I liked this mmorpg a lot as well - just needed to KILL something after a
couple months he he ;) 

>Guild Wars


--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 17, 2005 2:44:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
1jimi15os1ic05bqj07fn189hbcsfnivb0@4ax.com
> The minions get better & last longer as your Death Magic skill
> increases, so you can have more of them out. There are also regen
> skills to keep them alive longer later on. Personally, I hate the
> degen thing too - wish there was a way to keep them for the life of a
> zone instance, or some way to top them up (combat dmg they inflict?).
> There are good AOE healing/regen skills you get later on that keep
> them around for a very long time (with 10+ in Death Magic). Glad I
> picked N/Ranger so I always have at least one pet around ;-p

apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals very
little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from attacking you,
while you attack it.

--
Virus checking completed: All viruses functioning normally

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 17, 2005 4:50:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:55:51 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>You can go surprisingly far in the game with no other players at all,
>>although the intense stupidity of the henchmen can get very trying at
>>times.
>
>Some real people you can end up playing with make you dearly wish you
>had brought henchmen along instead!

Oh I know.
I don't even have to team with them to know how bad they could be, just
their behavior in the towns is enough.

I still wish the henchmen either had a bit better AI or would take some
basic orders.

It gets _really_ annoying to have to rez the healer after every single
fight because she decides that the best place to heal from is either
right beside the melee guys or standing between the melee guys and the
ranged enemy so she gets targeted by so many she's dead in seconds.

Not to mention the times I let enemies come to me so I don't end up
spawning more (devourers and such), and she runs past and activates
another group that all target her.

Why on earth a healer wants to do ranged heals from point blank range is
just beyond me, and why the hell she has to stand ON the corpse of the
person she's resurrecting, when resurrect has a pretty good range...

Not to mention her strange refusal to heal herself since the last patch,
she'll get severely wounded (ie 10% health left) and will wait until she
regens up to 20% health before she'll cast a heal on herself, even if no
one else has been hurt and she's at full mana.

Of course most of the time there are enemies near and that 10% doesn't
get a chance to regen up before she's hit again and killed.


Subtle pressure from the devs to group with real people i'm assuming.


Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 17, 2005 5:10:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals very
>little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from attacking you,
>while you attack it.

That would be Oink... he's an npc, not a pet, and one of the
"celebrity" npcs of the game (together with Gwen and the International
Frog of Mystery).
However, rangers pets do evolve with level (grow tougher and
physically bigger).


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 18, 2005 4:37:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> in
j1tni1tqi1jgjr86n98j6r2b72joge86r6@4ax.com
> Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>> apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals
>> very little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from
>> attacking you, while you attack it.
>
> That would be Oink... he's an npc, not a pet, and one of the
> "celebrity" npcs of the game (together with Gwen and the International
> Frog of Mystery).
> However, rangers pets do evolve with level (grow tougher and
> physically bigger).

are you sure, while I haven't met the pig, I read he can be available to
all rangers as a pet, at least for those who can find him, and can be
kept forever. of course it might have been patched out by now, I was
reading about exploits in the game, like a bag of gold that drops near a
fisherman's village as you run past a certain spot. repeat ad nauseam
and the bag keeps falling. someone claims to have made 75k from that
exploit.

--
A celebrity is someone who works hard all his life to become known and
then wears dark glasses to avoid being recognised.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 18, 2005 4:37:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>> That would be Oink... he's an npc, not a pet, and one of the
>> "celebrity" npcs of the game (together with Gwen and the International
>> Frog of Mystery).
>> However, rangers pets do evolve with level (grow tougher and
>> physically bigger).
>
>are you sure, while I haven't met the pig, I read he can be available to
>all rangers as a pet, at least for those who can find him, and can be
>kept forever. of course it might have been patched out by now, I was
>reading about exploits in the game, like a bag of gold that drops near a
>fisherman's village as you run past a certain spot. repeat ad nauseam
>and the bag keeps falling. someone claims to have made 75k from that
>exploit.

I've read one cheat-site, and all the "cheats" were from the beta
days, bugs long since fixed. If you need hints on how to make cash
just ask me, because I very much doubt anything at all on cheat sites
will pan out.
WRT immortal pigs, it might be Oink was once tameable, but he is not
now, and noone now has immortal pets.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 18, 2005 6:52:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>> you need hints on how to make cash
>> just ask me, because I very much doubt anything at all on cheat sites
>> will pan out.
>
>hmmm yes please! I know about making gold dye mixtures from yoss which
>is trading at 1 k

That's a losing proposition. Lots of work and abuse for something
which probably wont sell.

The only reliable ways of making money is
a) speculation (the prices at the rune/dye/raw materials traders
fluctuate, and you can buy cheap and sell expensive - people have got
enormously rich that way. Too boring for me though), and
b) farming, ie find an area with monsters you can kill and which drop
stuff, and kill them over and over and over. I'm not sure exactly
where you are, but there are plenty of areas which still give good
returns (though not so good after the patch, as you basically can't
sell anything to other players any more and the merchants pay
pitifully).

Chest-farming used to be popular but is now completely useless as a
means of making money - the keys cost more than the content of the
chest 99 times of 100. You do get tons of unlocks, though.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
September 18, 2005 11:49:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Sat, 17 Sep 2005
10:44:06 +1000, Anno Domini:

>Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
>1jimi15os1ic05bqj07fn189hbcsfnivb0@4ax.com
>> The minions get better & last longer as your Death Magic skill
>> increases, so you can have more of them out. There are also regen
>> skills to keep them alive longer later on. Personally, I hate the
>> degen thing too - wish there was a way to keep them for the life of a
>> zone instance, or some way to top them up (combat dmg they inflict?).
>> There are good AOE healing/regen skills you get later on that keep
>> them around for a very long time (with 10+ in Death Magic). Glad I
>> picked N/Ranger so I always have at least one pet around ;-p
>
>apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals very
>little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from attacking you,
>while you attack it.

Heh, never heard of it, but it sound good. There is Oink in the Kryta
mission, but he's a sub-mission NPC. Unless you can keep him if you don't
complete the mission...?

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 18, 2005 3:16:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> in
v0epi1hf9hej9ph8uivou43ir3d35r7gs9@4ax.com
> Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>> you need hints on how to make cash
>>> just ask me, because I very much doubt anything at all on cheat
>>> sites will pan out.
>>
>> hmmm yes please! I know about making gold dye mixtures from yoss
>> which is trading at 1 k
>
> That's a losing proposition. Lots of work and abuse for something
> which probably wont sell.
>
> The only reliable ways of making money is
> a) speculation (the prices at the rune/dye/raw materials traders
> fluctuate, and you can buy cheap and sell expensive - people have got
> enormously rich that way. Too boring for me though), and
> b) farming, ie find an area with monsters you can kill and which drop
> stuff, and kill them over and over and over. I'm not sure exactly
> where you are, but there are plenty of areas which still give good
> returns (though not so good after the patch, as you basically can't
> sell anything to other players any more and the merchants pay
> pitifully).
>
> Chest-farming used to be popular but is now completely useless as a
> means of making money - the keys cost more than the content of the
> chest 99 times of 100. You do get tons of unlocks, though.

did you play today? I have only woken up from partying hard last night,
no point joining the rest of them this late. I can barely gather my wits
to play.

--
A feature is a bug with seniority.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 18, 2005 4:00:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>did you play today? I have only woken up from partying hard last night,
>no point joining the rest of them this late. I can barely gather my wits
>to play.

Not with the others, no... I've got two ascended lvl 20's I play solo,
and two lvl 18 unascended I play with my friends.

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 19, 2005 12:08:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Well actually, eventhough I have never played GuildWars except for the
public beta test a long time ago. But I must picture that GuildWars is
not even a real mmorpg. Yeah Guildwars is nice to play every once in a
while eventhough it doesn't feel massivly. Something like Diablo in 3D
I'm just guessing.

However, you internet junkies or gamers cannot always rely on free
mmorpgs mainly because the majority of good quality mmorpgs come with a
monthly price tag.

--Akafoche

Jumpgate: http://www.jossh.com - http://www.themis-group.com/jg/
A space simulator & RPG with a skilled based flight system.
Http://jgportal.50webs.com - Links to other JG resources.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 19, 2005 1:47:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

arccos wrote:
> Upgrade system good, equipment system ok. Every piece of equipment in
> all RPGs seems to be the same to me. I wish my pet (the skeleton or
> whatever) would regenerate instead of degenerate. Seems to be almost
> useless so far, except for quests that require a sacrifice. The idea of
> allowing the skipping of the RPG elements but making RPG worthwhile is
> a great, great, GREAT idea, and I hope all PvP games take notice.
>

Far as I know, if you skip the RPG portion you will be completely
non-competitive in PvP. DAoC has this problem too, where the Trials of
Atlantis endgame PvE expansion increases your PvP power level so much
that you cannot fairly compete if you haven't bought it and completed
it.

I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
(axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
experience.

I also don't like the idea that you have to farm your character's
skills. I understand the high end reasoning behind it, to promote
balance and variety in PvP so every character isn't like every other
character. But it means you cannot decide to build a certain type of
character and guarantee that you are able to build it. I think the
devs should have included more viable options so that different
character builds would be attractive rather than just limiting access
to the good skills. See WoW and DAoC -- both games have multiple
popular builds for each character class and neither one restricts your
freedom in any meaningful weay to get any particular skill or spell.

I just found it too much work for not a lot of return. It's fun for a
while experimenting with the different class and skill combinations.
But you hit max level way, way before the game is completed. And then
you're pretty much just working towards access to the high end areas,
so that you can farm those high end areas to unlock stuff to use in
PvP. I would have preferred a more smooth progression, or a higher
level limit.

Looking back at my comments, I sound pretty negative. I don't really
think GW is a bad game. I had fun with it for a while. I just think
there's too little for a PvE game, but too much PvE for a PvP game. GW
tries to be both but there's just not enough meat to it on the PvE side
to be satisfying, and it's too long a haul leveling up and farming
stuff before you can make the PvP character you want. I just don't
think GW succeeds in its goal. I did enjoy it, but once I hit high
level and realized I was only around 1/2 - 2/3 finished with the map, I
lost interest. I didn't feel like doing that much PvE with no level
gains and boring loot to look forward to, and I didn't feel like PvPing
with just pre-made characters. It was fun up until that point, though.
But I went back to DAoC.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 19, 2005 3:19:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly akafoche@u2club.com Spake Unto All:

>Well actually, eventhough I have never played GuildWars except for the
>public beta test a long time ago.

Try the demo then, so you know what you talk about:
http://buy.ati.com/myprofile/gw_index.asp



--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
September 19, 2005 9:46:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:

>
> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
> experience.
>

Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
game in my eyes.

If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.

After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
systems are much better in NWN.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 20, 2005 11:14:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Nostromo wrote:
> Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:46:32
> GMT, Anno Domini:
>
> >patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
> >> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
> >> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
> >> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
> >> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
> >> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
> >> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
> >> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
> >> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
> >> experience.
> >>
> >
> >Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
> >game in my eyes.
>
> Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p
> It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
> your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys. That does NOT a
> rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
> different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers. WoW I haven't tried as
> a matter of principle.
>

Hey, I posted a long message about GW, including stuff about the game
length, level limits, skill availability, etc. Don't just pull one
thing out and say it's "all about loot to me."

And it's not about uber high end items anyway. It's about the items
being boring.

It's the hammer-axe-sword thing. Each one has a purpose and a
situation in which it excels. It makes for a clearly defined set of
parameters for PvP from which to choose your strategies. But it also
makes for a limited PvE game. There's very little variety in the armor
either. Each class has basically just 2 types of armor to choose from,
and there are no armor drops in the game that I ever saw. It's all
store bought. All the good focus items I ever found had specific skill
requirements on them -- even when the bonus on the item has nothing to
do with that skill -- so not only could just one class use them, but
only a character specced the right way.

Characters in GW remind me of one of those build-your-own-units RTS
games like Earth 2150, where you mix and match units from a limited set
of building blocks. Pick a weapon type, a movement type, and a chassis
to mount them on, and then duke it out. It's like in GW where you go
"I'll build sword weapon warrior with shield and light armor" or "I'll
do 2h hammer with heavy armor". The choices are very archetypical.
And the PvE game is like the RTS campaign missions that determine which
building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you have access to.
This kind of thing works great in strategy games, but it doesn't make
for a very deep RPG.
September 20, 2005 11:30:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:46:32
GMT, Anno Domini:

>patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
>> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
>> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
>> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
>> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
>> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
>> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
>> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
>> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
>> experience.
>>
>
>Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
>game in my eyes.

Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p
It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys. That does NOT a
rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers. WoW I haven't tried as
a matter of principle.

>If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.

LOL! So GW is a better game in every way...except it doesn't have ph4t l00t?
:) 

>After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
>server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
>systems are much better in NWN.

NWN isn't even in the same league as GW imo. But, opinions being like
arseholes...*sigh*. Yes, GW could use a player crafting system, but that's
not its focus.

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
September 20, 2005 11:30:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Nostromo wrote:

> Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:46:32
> GMT, Anno Domini:
>
> >patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
> >> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
> >> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
> >> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
> >> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
> >> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
> >> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
> >> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
> >> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
> >> experience.
> >>
> >
> >Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
> >game in my eyes.
>
> Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p

Different games, different settings. I haven't played it, but I have heard that it
has temporary power ups which serve a similar purpose. Finding neat magic items
that do weird and wonderful things is a major part of the fun of S&S RPGs. Deal.

>
> It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
> your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys.

Not to me. It does mean (as one aspect) finding treasure that is special, not
picking up a dozen swords or pairs of gloves with the same +5 spirit, +5 armour
ratings. Each of which will earn you 3 or 4 gp when you drag them back to town.
Variety is the spice of life, and GW's treasure is just so GENERIC and dull.

I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.

> That does NOT a
> rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
> different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers.

As far as capturing the wonder and mystery of S&S, GW is half-assed at best. Dull,
dull, dull. Pretty, yes, but a GAME needs more than that.

> WoW I haven't tried as
> a matter of principle.
>
> >If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.
>
> LOL! So GW is a better game in every way...except it doesn't have ph4t l00t?
> :) 
>

In "every" way? No. In those two ways. The 'loot' shouldn't be boring. In GW, it
is. GW is a S&S game for accountants.

I can admit each game's strengths and weaknesses. Can you?

>
> >After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
> >server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
> >systems are much better in NWN.
>
> NWN isn't even in the same league as GW imo.

In what way? GW is prettier, for sure. In what other ways do you think it is
superior?

> But, opinions being like
> arseholes...*sigh*. Yes, GW could use a player crafting system, but that's
> not its focus.

Being a fun experience for anyone but diehard PvPers isn't its focus apparently.

Try not to make an "opinion" of yourself if you choose to reply.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 20, 2005 4:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
> determine which building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you
> have access to. This kind of thing works great in strategy games, but
> it doesn't make for a very deep RPG.


GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing acronyms
around like that--)

I don't much like it either, including for some of the reasons you mention.
It's good at what it is, I suppose, but what it's good at is something I
don't really care a lot about.

--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 20, 2005 5:03:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
<snip>
>I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
>will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.

You have seriously "judged" GW without even getting out of the
tutorial/newbie area?

Did you judge WoW by it's tutorial/newbie section too and nothing else?

<snip>
>As far as capturing the wonder and mystery of S&S, GW is half-assed at best. Dull,
>dull, dull. Pretty, yes, but a GAME needs more than that.

You might try leaving the tutorial before you judge the entire game.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 20, 2005 6:52:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

You can tame other warthogs than Oink, but they are not immortal.
They are just slightly smellier versions of normal pets.
September 20, 2005 10:44:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Xocyll wrote:

> RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
> <snip>
> >I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
> >will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.
>
> You have seriously "judged" GW without even getting out of the
> tutorial/newbie area?
>
> Did you judge WoW by it's tutorial/newbie section too and nothing else?
>

Well, even judging them both on their newbie areas, my comments stand.

If a game isn't good enough to hold my interest for more than a week, that's the fault
of the game. I'm not being paid to play the thing. Given the low fun factor, it's only
due to a lack of a monthly fee that I have recently returned to give it another try. As
for the post-searing phase - it seems like more of the same. Blah quests, blah rewards
and blah NPCs.

>
> <snip>
> >As far as capturing the wonder and mystery of S&S, GW is half-assed at best. Dull,
> >dull, dull. Pretty, yes, but a GAME needs more than that.
>
> You might try leaving the tutorial before you judge the entire game.

If that's a tutorial, it's a pretty feeble one.
September 20, 2005 10:56:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:43:50
GMT, Anno Domini:

>> Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p
>
>Different games, different settings. I haven't played it, but I have heard that it
>has temporary power ups which serve a similar purpose. Finding neat magic items
>that do weird and wonderful things is a major part of the fun of S&S RPGs. Deal.
>
>>
>> It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
>> your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys.
>
>Not to me. It does mean (as one aspect) finding treasure that is special, not
>picking up a dozen swords or pairs of gloves with the same +5 spirit, +5 armour
>ratings. Each of which will earn you 3 or 4 gp when you drag them back to town.
>Variety is the spice of life, and GW's treasure is just so GENERIC and dull.

Yes, it's a tad dull. Let me say it again: GW is not about items or loot. If
you fixate on it, the game will get very dull, yes. Not my fault you bought
it or play it with all the wrong expectations, none of which were ever
encouraged by any official game faq or the web site, from b4 day 1.

>I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
>will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.
>
>> That does NOT a
>> rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
>> different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers.
>
>As far as capturing the wonder and mystery of S&S, GW is half-assed at best. Dull,
>dull, dull. Pretty, yes, but a GAME needs more than that.

Hey, it's head & shoulders above EQ2. Without the cosmic grind there's
constant progress & new areas & challenges. Gives me time to focus on
playing (something I have precious little time to do these days) rather than
doing farming or spawn camping or whatnot. If I had time to play 16
characters to 20th level & explore every aspect of PvE/PvP I might say
differently. However, I just play the game & don't let it play me.

>> WoW I haven't tried as
>> a matter of principle.
>>
>> >If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.
>>
>> LOL! So GW is a better game in every way...except it doesn't have ph4t l00t?
>> :) 
>>
>
>In "every" way? No. In those two ways. The 'loot' shouldn't be boring. In GW, it
>is. GW is a S&S game for accountants.
>
>I can admit each game's strengths and weaknesses. Can you?

Haven't played WoW. Haven't wanted to after reading extensively about it.
There's it's #1 major weakness right there for ya! ;-p

>> >After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
>> >server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
>> >systems are much better in NWN.
>>
>> NWN isn't even in the same league as GW imo.
>
>In what way? GW is prettier, for sure. In what other ways do you think it is
>superior?

I'm playing it & will for quite some time. It still has the wow-factor
around every corner. It's immersive & pretty & challenging & fun. With NWN I
was counting the minutes after I just got out of starting area & saw that
all the NPCs, quests, visuals & combat was just more of the same. And I grew
up on D&D.

>> But, opinions being like
>> arseholes...*sigh*. Yes, GW could use a player crafting system, but that's
>> not its focus.
>
>Being a fun experience for anyone but diehard PvPers isn't its focus apparently.

It has a two-fold focus, both on PvE AND PvP. And it achieves them in
spades. No other game EVER has. Anything else you hear is from perpetual
whiners who always find fault instead of appreciating the whole. There was
plenty of them in D2, CoH & EQ2, to name a few. I've learned to sniff them
out a mile away. Which side of the fence are you Roger? (& here come the
fanboy commments no doubt)

>Try not to make an "opinion" of yourself if you choose to reply.

You beat me to it. Damn.

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
September 21, 2005 11:51:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca>, Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:44:30
GMT, Anno Domini:

>> <snip>
>> >As far as capturing the wonder and mystery of S&S, GW is half-assed at best. Dull,
>> >dull, dull. Pretty, yes, but a GAME needs more than that.
>>
>> You might try leaving the tutorial before you judge the entire game.
>
>If that's a tutorial, it's a pretty feeble one.

With every word you utter, more & more I think you should be talking to
SteamKILLER - the rest of us are clearly on a different wavelength, one not
in outer space.

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 21, 2005 12:03:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: chainbreaker <noone@nowhere.com> in
pIednff_l-p4oq3eRVn-pA@comcast.com
> patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
>> determine which building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you
>> have access to. This kind of thing works great in strategy games, but
>> it doesn't make for a very deep RPG.
>
>
> GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing
> acronyms around like that--)
>
> I don't much like it either, including for some of the reasons you
> mention. It's good at what it is, I suppose, but what it's good at is
> something I don't really care a lot about.

I am merely treating GW as a Diablo game with minor differences. I only
wish I had the scroll of town portal, or morrowind's teleport ring that
bookmarks locations to return to after dumping all your phat loot. and
as others say, the loot is boring, I just completed the north wall run
all the way to shiverpeaks base camp, and came back with 500 cash. I had
enough to upgrade my armour before that, but that's all, I expect after
a monumental run like that I should come back to a roman triumph with
lots of fanfare.

--
If you look like your passport photo, you're too ill to travel. - Will
Kommen

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 21, 2005 1:18:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Highlandish wrote:
> Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
> c9m1j11ca8m2a7c2uct0kbmpocgj0t4j6s@4ax.com
> > Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Wed, 21 Sep
> > 2005 08:03:12 +1000, Anno Domini:
> >
> >> I am merely treating GW as a Diablo game with minor differences. I
> >> only wish I had the scroll of town portal, or morrowind's teleport
> >> ring that bookmarks locations to return to after dumping all your
> >> phat loot. and
> >
> > Oh yes.
> >
> >> as others say, the loot is boring, I just completed the north wall
> >> run all the way to shiverpeaks base camp, and came back with 500
> >> cash. I had enough to upgrade my armour before that, but that's all,
> >> I expect after a monumental run like that I should come back to a
> >> roman triumph with lots of fanfare.
> >
> > Yeah, no fanfare - you're runnin from the Charr like a scared girl to
> > throw yourself on the mercy of the Krytans - what did you expect? ;) 
>
> why couldn't I have picked sides? the prince was all gung-ho and
> attacking the charr, suddenly he defies his father the king by running
> with his tail between his legs. as soon as I realised I was in the
> shiver mountains base camp, I ported back to ascalon so I can finish up
> a dozen unfinished quests. I got a lot to do there. however returning to
> what was supposed to be an over run city was nothing of the sort. I
> assumed ascalon would have been lost forever once the prince left. a bit
> of a story breaker that is.
>

A bit strange how that works, isn't it?

As you move forward geographically, the story moves forward
chronologically. And if you visit a previous area, you go back in time
as well.

All the MMORPGs pretty much work this way. I mean you can kill the
Kolkar leaders in WoW and the quest guy will tell you how they are
going to win the campaign against the centaurs now. But 20 minutes
later, the centaurs respawn and everything is back the way it was.

But these are generally minor side quests, whereas it is extreme in GW,
with worldshaking events that seem to have happened or not happened
depending on which zone your character is standing in at the moment.
It's kind of surreal. It's not just a matter of quests resetting for
someone else to do them. It's the whole storyline of the game.
Ascalon is fine when you're standing it, and conquered by Charr when
you're not.

Despite how terrible that is for the immersion factor, I still applaud
the designers for doing such an epic story and actually developing the
plot. It is far less static an environment than the other MMORPGs.
You may not be able to go back to Ascalon to see the effects of the
invasion, but you can at least hear about the aftermath in subsequent
cities. In other games, none of the massive conspiracies, invasions,
searches for lost artifacts, plagues, or anything else ever happen or
ever get diverted. The world is always on the brink of disaster, it
never falls in and never gets saved. You solve an epic quest for an
NPC, and the next time you see that NPC there is no knowledge of it
ever happening. That's story breaking in its own right.

At least the GW designers made an attempt at an evolving storyline
within the game.
September 21, 2005 5:55:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Wed, 21 Sep 2005
08:03:12 +1000, Anno Domini:

>I am merely treating GW as a Diablo game with minor differences. I only
>wish I had the scroll of town portal, or morrowind's teleport ring that
>bookmarks locations to return to after dumping all your phat loot. and

Oh yes.

>as others say, the loot is boring, I just completed the north wall run
>all the way to shiverpeaks base camp, and came back with 500 cash. I had
>enough to upgrade my armour before that, but that's all, I expect after
>a monumental run like that I should come back to a roman triumph with
>lots of fanfare.

Yeah, no fanfare - you're runnin from the Charr like a scared girl to throw
yourself on the mercy of the Krytans - what did you expect? ;) 

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 22, 2005 4:11:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
c9m1j11ca8m2a7c2uct0kbmpocgj0t4j6s@4ax.com
> Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Wed, 21 Sep
> 2005 08:03:12 +1000, Anno Domini:
>
>> I am merely treating GW as a Diablo game with minor differences. I
>> only wish I had the scroll of town portal, or morrowind's teleport
>> ring that bookmarks locations to return to after dumping all your
>> phat loot. and
>
> Oh yes.
>
>> as others say, the loot is boring, I just completed the north wall
>> run all the way to shiverpeaks base camp, and came back with 500
>> cash. I had enough to upgrade my armour before that, but that's all,
>> I expect after a monumental run like that I should come back to a
>> roman triumph with lots of fanfare.
>
> Yeah, no fanfare - you're runnin from the Charr like a scared girl to
> throw yourself on the mercy of the Krytans - what did you expect? ;) 

why couldn't I have picked sides? the prince was all gung-ho and
attacking the charr, suddenly he defies his father the king by running
with his tail between his legs. as soon as I realised I was in the
shiver mountains base camp, I ported back to ascalon so I can finish up
a dozen unfinished quests. I got a lot to do there. however returning to
what was supposed to be an over run city was nothing of the sort. I
assumed ascalon would have been lost forever once the prince left. a bit
of a story breaker that is.

--
It doesn't matter what temperature the room is; it's always
room-temperature.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 22, 2005 4:11:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
>c9m1j11ca8m2a7c2uct0kbmpocgj0t4j6s@4ax.com
>> Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Wed, 21 Sep
>> 2005 08:03:12 +1000, Anno Domini:
>>
>>> I am merely treating GW as a Diablo game with minor differences. I
>>> only wish I had the scroll of town portal, or morrowind's teleport
>>> ring that bookmarks locations to return to after dumping all your
>>> phat loot. and
>>
>> Oh yes.
>>
>>> as others say, the loot is boring, I just completed the north wall
>>> run all the way to shiverpeaks base camp, and came back with 500
>>> cash. I had enough to upgrade my armour before that, but that's all,
>>> I expect after a monumental run like that I should come back to a
>>> roman triumph with lots of fanfare.
>>
>> Yeah, no fanfare - you're runnin from the Charr like a scared girl to
>> throw yourself on the mercy of the Krytans - what did you expect? ;) 
>
>why couldn't I have picked sides? the prince was all gung-ho and
>attacking the charr, suddenly he defies his father the king by running
>with his tail between his legs. as soon as I realised I was in the
>shiver mountains base camp, I ported back to ascalon so I can finish up
>a dozen unfinished quests. I got a lot to do there. however returning to
>what was supposed to be an over run city was nothing of the sort. I
>assumed ascalon would have been lost forever once the prince left. a bit
>of a story breaker that is.

Yes and no.
Once you do the Nolani Academy mission, you've fought and won a
semi-major battle vs the Charr.
The King thinks it's possible to win, the Prince feels it's a lost cause
and the Ascalonians should scarper off to Kryta.
So the Prince gets the boot, you go along, but Ascalon has not actually
been lost at this point, the King and the rest of the folks are still
fighting the Charr.

The only really jarring "story breaker" is when you go back to Ascalon
and Prince Rurik is there - this is especially jarring after you do the
"Frost Gate" mission.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 22, 2005 3:02:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> in
8i63j1tu62ukudji1evgbds3mjkm5ck2cv@4ax.com
> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading
> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
> signs say:
>
>> Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
>> c9m1j11ca8m2a7c2uct0kbmpocgj0t4j6s@4ax.com
>>> Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Wed, 21 Sep
>>> 2005 08:03:12 +1000, Anno Domini:
>>>
>>>> I am merely treating GW as a Diablo game with minor differences. I
>>>> only wish I had the scroll of town portal, or morrowind's teleport
>>>> ring that bookmarks locations to return to after dumping all your
>>>> phat loot. and
>>>
>>> Oh yes.
>>>
>>>> as others say, the loot is boring, I just completed the north wall
>>>> run all the way to shiverpeaks base camp, and came back with 500
>>>> cash. I had enough to upgrade my armour before that, but that's
>>>> all, I expect after a monumental run like that I should come back
>>>> to a roman triumph with lots of fanfare.
>>>
>>> Yeah, no fanfare - you're runnin from the Charr like a scared girl
>>> to throw yourself on the mercy of the Krytans - what did you
>>> expect? ;) 
>>
>> why couldn't I have picked sides? the prince was all gung-ho and
>> attacking the charr, suddenly he defies his father the king by
>> running with his tail between his legs. as soon as I realised I was
>> in the shiver mountains base camp, I ported back to ascalon so I can
>> finish up a dozen unfinished quests. I got a lot to do there.
>> however returning to what was supposed to be an over run city was
>> nothing of the sort. I assumed ascalon would have been lost forever
>> once the prince left. a bit of a story breaker that is.
>
> Yes and no.
> Once you do the Nolani Academy mission, you've fought and won a
> semi-major battle vs the Charr.
> The King thinks it's possible to win, the Prince feels it's a lost
> cause and the Ascalonians should scarper off to Kryta.
> So the Prince gets the boot, you go along, but Ascalon has not
> actually been lost at this point, the King and the rest of the folks
> are still fighting the Charr.
>
> The only really jarring "story breaker" is when you go back to Ascalon
> and Prince Rurik is there - this is especially jarring after you do
> the "Frost Gate" mission.
>
> Xocyll

yeah, and half the merchants and npc's scattered about ascalon
supposedly moved on to shiverpeaks but can also be found still about
ascalon at the same time. perhaps before the scene where the prince
leaves the king, you should have had the option to choose to go ahead,
or finish up everything in ascalon first, then when you choose too
progress in the story, they cut off ascalon altogether never to return.

--
It is far more impressive when others discover your good qualities
without your help.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 26, 2005 4:06:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:

>patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
>> determine which building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you
>> have access to. This kind of thing works great in strategy games, but
>> it doesn't make for a very deep RPG.
>
>GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing acronyms
>around like that--)

Rubbish.

Chain, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't played the
game and have zero clue just stfu, OK?


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 26, 2005 4:06:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:

>>I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
>>will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.
>
>You have seriously "judged" GW without even getting out of the
>tutorial/newbie area?

He probably spent 20 hours there and, based on single-player rpg's,
now expect to be close to the end.
It *is* rather confusing for a single-player cRPG'er used to short
games like KOTOR2 to come to a game where the _tutorial_ area is about
the size of all of Morrowind and takes as long to finish as KOTOR2,
while the _real_ game map is 15-20x the size of the tutorial area and
takes 100+ hours to play through.

Still, if he didn't like pre-searing, he's unlikely to like the real
game - it's fundamentally the same, just more & bigger & more complex.
He might still like the PvP, though, it's completely different than
the PvE campaign, and for most it's an either/or thing - either they
like the PvP or they like the PvE.

Then again, GW may simply not be for him. Tastes vary. As unfathomable
as it is to me, there's even people who like NWN or Dungeon Lords, the
two worst rpg's in recent history, so the bell curve distribution of
players means there must be some who honestly don't like GW too.

--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 26, 2005 4:06:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:
>
>> patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
>>> determine which building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you
>>> have access to. This kind of thing works great in strategy games,
>>> but it doesn't make for a very deep RPG.
>>
>> GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing
>> acronyms around like that--)
>
> Rubbish.
>
> Chain, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't played the
> game and have zero clue just stfu, OK?

Mean_Chlorine, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't read
enough of my posts to understand I *have* played the game, and quite a bit
too, then you must have zero clue, so just stfu, OK?

--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 27, 2005 2:17:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thusly "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:

>>> GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing
>>> acronyms around like that--)
>>
>> Rubbish.
>>
>> Chain, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't played the
>> game and have zero clue just stfu, OK?
>
>Mean_Chlorine, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't read
>enough of my posts to understand I *have* played the game, and quite a bit
>too, then you must have zero clue, so just stfu, OK?

If you've so much as *seen* the game, you should bloody well know it's
every bit as much a RTS, and every bit as little a RPG, as Morrowind.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 27, 2005 2:17:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:
>
>>>> GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing
>>>> acronyms around like that--)
>>>
>>> Rubbish.
>>>
>>> Chain, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't played
>>> the game and have zero clue just stfu, OK?
>>
>> Mean_Chlorine, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't
>> read enough of my posts to understand I *have* played the game, and
>> quite a bit too, then you must have zero clue, so just stfu, OK?
>
> If you've so much as *seen* the game, you should bloody well know it's
> every bit as much a RTS, and every bit as little a RPG, as Morrowind.

Dang, ain'cha allowed the least bit of poetical type license? It's surely
not a RTS in the accepted "formula" of that genre, obviously. What it is,
IMO, and I'll try to speak very precisely here, is more of a "strategy" game
than an RPG, that's all. It actually even reminds me a bit in form of that
futuristic 1st person strat game that had tanks, etc. in it a few years
ago--its name escapes me at the moment, though . . . Battle-something,
maybe?

--
chainbreaker
September 27, 2005 3:02:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com>, Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:54:36
-0400, Anno Domini:

>Mean_Chlorine wrote:
>> Thusly "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:
>>
>>> patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
>>>> determine which building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you
>>>> have access to. This kind of thing works great in strategy games,
>>>> but it doesn't make for a very deep RPG.
>>>
>>> GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing
>>> acronyms around like that--)
>>
>> Rubbish.
>>
>> Chain, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't played the
>> game and have zero clue just stfu, OK?
>
>Mean_Chlorine, you keep spouting nonsense like this. If you haven't read
>enough of my posts to understand I *have* played the game, and quite a bit
>too, then you must have zero clue, so just stfu, OK?

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!!! >8^D

(gets fresh popcorn, settles in...:) 

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 27, 2005 9:38:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3aOdnYOQw_qe-6XeRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
>
> Dang, ain'cha allowed the least bit of poetical type license? It's surely
> not a RTS in the accepted "formula" of that genre, obviously. What it is,
> IMO, and I'll try to speak very precisely here, is more of a "strategy"
game
> than an RPG, that's all. It actually even reminds me a bit in form of
that
> futuristic 1st person strat game that had tanks, etc. in it a few years
> ago--its name escapes me at the moment, though . . . Battle-something,
> maybe?

Battlezone 1+2
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 27, 2005 9:38:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Alfred Pum wrote:
> "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3aOdnYOQw_qe-6XeRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
>>
>> Dang, ain'cha allowed the least bit of poetical type license? It's
>> surely not a RTS in the accepted "formula" of that genre, obviously.
>> What it is, IMO, and I'll try to speak very precisely here, is more
>> of a "strategy" game than an RPG, that's all. It actually even
>> reminds me a bit in form of that futuristic 1st person strat game
>> that had tanks, etc. in it a few years ago--its name escapes me at
>> the moment, though . . . Battle-something, maybe?
>
> Battlezone 1+2

That's it!

--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 29, 2005 5:19:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:

>Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:
>
>>>I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
>>>will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.
>>
>>You have seriously "judged" GW without even getting out of the
>>tutorial/newbie area?
>
>He probably spent 20 hours there and, based on single-player rpg's,
>now expect to be close to the end.
>It *is* rather confusing for a single-player cRPG'er used to short
>games like KOTOR2 to come to a game where the _tutorial_ area is about
>the size of all of Morrowind and takes as long to finish as KOTOR2,
>while the _real_ game map is 15-20x the size of the tutorial area and
>takes 100+ hours to play through.

Create exaggeration i'm going to assume. Pre-Sear is nowhere near the
size of Morrowind - the Bloodmoon Expansion island maybe.

>Still, if he didn't like pre-searing, he's unlikely to like the real
>game - it's fundamentally the same, just more & bigger & more complex.
>He might still like the PvP, though, it's completely different than
>the PvE campaign, and for most it's an either/or thing - either they
>like the PvP or they like the PvE.

I found Pre-sear to be a bit boring and the quests were all pretty short
and similar. Post-sear does get a bit more variety that way.
But yeah, it's similar.

>Then again, GW may simply not be for him. Tastes vary. As unfathomable
>as it is to me, there's even people who like NWN or Dungeon Lords, the
>two worst rpg's in recent history, so the bell curve distribution of
>players means there must be some who honestly don't like GW too.

Hell, I guess there's even people who liked Daikatana, or Pool of
Radiance 2.

GW is definitely RPG-lite, but it's damn pretty, and the limit of skills
you can take with you does force some tactical thinking.
That may be a downside to people used to having instant access to every
skill as in Diablo2.

I don't like the way henchmen become fairly useless in the end-game
though - especially the defend missions - Droknar's is just doable, but
Denravi is impossible since the henchmen are only level 15, and Lion's
Arch is going to be even worse.

Them changing the henchmen you get in the endgame didn't help either -
Alesia wasn't a fantastic healer, but she did heal, Mehnlo seems to
think he's a fighter and wants to shoot things more than he wants to
heal - naturally he ends up dead in seconds.

Why the hell all 3 monk henchmen don't have resurrection and have to
stand directly on a corpse to raise it is similarly mystifying.

Why they replaced the henchmen with those named idiots from pre-sear I
just don't get - add the named guys to the pool for a greater selection
would have been good, but replacing good henchmen with bad henchmen is
boggling. Unless of course the object was to force you to team with
other players.

Yeah it was just so much fun to stand around in the Hell's Precipice
mission trying to get a team together, since there were so few people
there and half of them were afk. </sarcasm>

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
!