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xlr - MIDI

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Anonymous
January 28, 2005 3:17:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough? The reason I'm
asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the Digital
Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my
mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work? Thanks!

Harlan

More about : xlr midi

Anonymous
January 28, 2005 3:51:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You cannot plug a mic into a MIDI input nor can you plug a MIDI output
into a mic input.

You can however make MIDI-XLR adapters that will allow you to run MIDI
signals long distances over regular XLR cables since only 3 pins of the
MIDI connector are actually used (out of the 5 total). And so,
theoretically, a manufacturer could make a universal input on a device
that accepted both MIDI and/or mic inputs (selectable via software), but
I don't think such a device exists. So for your purposes, you can
pretty much ignore this paragraph.

The Audiophile USB does have analog line inputs, though, so all you
would need would be an external mic preamp to get mic inputs.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq


harlan griswold wrote:
> I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
> same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough? The reason I'm
> asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the Digital
> Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my
> mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
> really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work? Thanks!
>
> Harlan
>
>
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <35vae8F4q046uU1@individual.net> harlan.griswold@mtnstream.org writes:

> I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
> same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough?

How far away are you looking from? They're a different size, and have
a different number of pins. About the only thing they have in common
is that they're both round.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 9:40:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"harlan griswold" wrote ...
> I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI?
> They look the same to me - is that because I'm not looking close
> enough?

If you look at a picture of the two side by side, you will clearly
see that they are very different and not interchangable in any way.

Audiophile USB showing MIDI connectors...
http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/audiophil...

Mobile-Pre USB showing XLR microphone input connectors...
http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/mobilepre...

> The reason I'm asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio
> Audiophile USB for the Digital Coax inputs to USB to my
> laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my mics into to
> record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
> really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work?

You can get a device like the Mobile-PreUSB which has
XLR mic inputs (but no SPDIF)

Or you could get a mic preamp with SPDIF output (Core
Sound has some) www.core-sound.com

There may be other USB audio units that have both XLR mic
inputs and SPDIF, but I can't think of any right now.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 4:57:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1106934251k@trad...
>
> In article <35vae8F4q046uU1@individual.net> harlan.griswold@mtnstream.org
> writes:
>
>> I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
>> same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough?
>
> How far away are you looking from? They're a different size, and have
> a different number of pins. About the only thing they have in common
> is that they're both round.

Well, since they're both round, with the right hammer (or EV-635), they can
be made to fit PERFECTLY with each other, so what's the problem??? :) 

Neil Henderson
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:40:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:17:59 -0500, harlan griswold wrote
(in article <35vae8F4q046uU1@individual.net>):

> I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
> same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough? The reason I'm
> asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the Digital
> Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my
> mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
> really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work? Thanks!
>
> Harlan
>
>

No they are quite different.

Ty Ford

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 11:13:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

harlan griswold wrote:
> I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
> same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough? The reason I'm
> asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the Digital
> Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my
> mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
> really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work? Thanks!

Either you are a troll or haven't got a clue. Go bug the guy at Radio
Shack for answers, make him feel important.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 4:49:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
>same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough? The reason I'm
>asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the Digital
>Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my
>mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
>really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work? Thanks!


I'm jumping in late to this thread. But no-one seems to have
mentioned the vital point that midi is NOT an audio connection.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 4:49:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:77fov0d37fgi6se295tjhg7lttsmve7g8u@4ax.com...
>
>>I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look
>>the
>>same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough? The reason
>>I'm
>>asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the
>>Digital
>>Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug
>>my
>>mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
>>really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work?
>>Thanks!
>
>
> I'm jumping in late to this thread. But no-one seems to have
> mentioned the vital point that midi is NOT an audio connection.

It is sometimes a judgment call to decide whether or not to
restate the obvious.

Presumably the OP knows what MIDI is if he is aking for it.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:25:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
information).

XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).


They are not compatible in any way.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:58:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"harlan griswold" <harlan.griswold@mtnstream.org> wrote in message
news:35vae8F4q046uU1@individual.net...
>I have a question - Are XLR connections the same as MIDI? They look the
> same to me - is that because I'm not looking close enough?

Yes. DIN5 connector look nothing like XLR connectors. About 1/3 the size
for starters

>The reason I'm
> asking is that I'm looking to get a M-Audio Audiophile USB for the Digital
> Coax inputs to USB to my laptop. And if I could *also* use it to plug my
> mics into to record to my laptop, that would be great! If they're not
> really one and the same, is there any adapter to make it work? Thanks!

Que ?!!?

The Audiophike USB has Audio, MIDI , and SPDIF inputs. Each are completely
different things and have different connectors. You cannot record a mic
directly into the unit, as it has LINE lewvel inputs. You will need a small
mixer or mic preamp.

geoff
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 10:43:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <290120052127161548%jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>, j t
<jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net> wrote:

> MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
> information).
>
> XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
>
>
> They are not compatible in any way.

MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
to be too expensive. By using the DIN5 connector, it became more
cost-effective to integrate, as well as being easier. By choosing a
standardized connection for In, Out and Thru also helped drive the costs
down. DIN connectors for cables are also cheap, and hence helps keep price
down. After all, who is using MIDI? A lot of musicians, who typically are
cheap.

MIDI uses the inner 3 pins 0n the 5-pin connector. Some companies are
using the outer pins to transfer power for low-draw devices, which is not
typical but may catch on in some areas.

So, while PHYSICALLY they are not compatible, they can electronically be
made compatible via adaptors. I don't suggest adapting, but it can be
done. I personally wouldn't do it, but I've had to in a pinch(OK, some
jerk forced me to do it because he could, which was retarded since he had
a 30-foot MIDI cable in the room and that's what he needed. Hell, his
parts, his money, he paid for it) and it worked and it worked just fine.

I still do deal with idiots who want to dump their MIDI instruments's MIDI
signal to their tapes since they haven't made the distinction between data
and audio. At this point, when I get those clients, I get rid of them, I
don't have the time to give a lesson at the high and low points of MIDI
and data at the bits and bytles level, unless they want to pay $150/hr for
the 4 hour lecture.(per person, of course). I have other clients who pay
me more for less work.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 11:43:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-01-30, Chris Pickett <for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com> wrote:

> I still do deal with idiots who want to dump their MIDI instruments's MIDI
> signal to their tapes since they haven't made the distinction between data
> and audio.

I do like to dump a MIDI stream at the same time as audio, but that's
mostly because I can. It's nice to have it timecoded. Very useful for
fixing things, or re-doing a take with a slightly different timbre, etc.

I could probably phrase my request in a way that would set off your
idiot button, even though I'm very aware.
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 4:32:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:43:38 GMT, for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com
(Chris Pickett) wrote:

>In article <290120052127161548%jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>, j t
><jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net> wrote:
>
>> MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
>> information).
>>
>> XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
>>
>>
>> They are not compatible in any way.
>
>MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
>to be too expensive. By using the DIN5 connector, it became more
>cost-effective to integrate, as well as being easier. By choosing a
>standardized connection for In, Out and Thru also helped drive the costs
>down. DIN connectors for cables are also cheap, and hence helps keep price
>down. After all, who is using MIDI? A lot of musicians, who typically are
>cheap.
>
>MIDI uses the inner 3 pins 0n the 5-pin connector.

Is one of them a ground/shield (and perhaps not connected on both
ends)? I recall the original spec (as published - I don't recall
anything about using XLR connectors) using only two pins of the 5-pin
DIN connector. The input is an optoisolator so there's no ground path,
thus no ground loop, so I wonder about the cable (or is the
ground/shield only connected on the output connector, not the in, or
vice versa?)

>Some companies are
>using the outer pins to transfer power for low-draw devices, which is not
>typical but may catch on in some areas.

I'm surprised that wasn't done more often. It would be ideal to
power battery-powered things such at the Korg RK-1 "keytar" MIDI
controller.

> ... { bad nightmare snipped }

>--
>The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
> Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
>California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
> Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 4:32:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ben Bradley wrote:


> Is one of them a ground/shield (and perhaps not connected on both
> ends)? I recall the original spec (as published - I don't recall
> anything about using XLR connectors) using only two pins of the 5-pin
> DIN connector. The input is an optoisolator so there's no ground path,
> thus no ground loop, so I wonder about the cable (or is the
> ground/shield only connected on the output connector, not the in, or
> vice versa?)


here you go:

1 n/c
4 +
2 gnd (MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU) or no connection (MIDI IN)
5 -
3 n/c
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 4:32:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

S O'Neill wrote:

>Ben Bradley wrote:
>
>> Is one of them a ground/shield (and perhaps not connected on both
>> ends)? I recall the original spec (as published - I don't recall
>> anything about using XLR connectors) using only two pins of the 5-pin
>> DIN connector. The input is an optoisolator so there's no ground path,
>> thus no ground loop, so I wonder about the cable (or is the
>> ground/shield only connected on the output connector, not the in, or
>> vice versa?)
>
>here you go:
>
>1 n/c
>4 +
>2 gnd (MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU) or no connection (MIDI IN)
>5 -
>3 n/c

Generic Midi Out/In/Through Circuit
===================================

The following shows a typical OUT, cable, and IN circuit

MIDI OUT port ---->|<- cable ->|<---- MIDI IN port +5V
270 |
+5V DIN DIN +--\/\/\/-+
| 220 +-+ +-------+ +-+ 220 +--------+ |
|\ +-\/\/\/--|4|-|-------|-|4|--\/\/\/--| OPTO |-+-+- UART RXD
UART | \ | | | | | | |ISOLATOR| |
TXD ---| \---\/\/\/--|5|-|-------|-|5|----------| |-+ |
| / 220 | | +-------+ | | +--------+ | |
| / +--|2|-+ +-|2| 6N138 GND|
|/ 7407 | +-+ +-+ |
GND |
|
+-------------------------------------------+
|
| +5V DIN
| | 220 +-+
| |\ +-\/\/\/--|4|
| | \ | |
+--| \---\/\/\/--|5| MIDI THRU
| / 220 | |
| / +--|2|
|/ 7407 | +-+
GND

Note that when the UART TXD is high, no current flows through the resistors
and optoisolator's LED, causing the optoisolator's phototransistor to remain
off, allowing the UART RXD to be pulled high by the 270 ohm resistor. When
the UART TXD is low, current flows through the resistors and optoisolator's
LED, turning on optoisolator's phototransistor, grounding the UART RXD. The
voltage drop across the optoisolator's LED is typically 1.5 volts, leaving
3.5 volts to be dropped across (3 times 220) 660 ohms, which allows about
5 ma to flow.

The reason a current loop is used is that it allows a ground isolated
interconnection. Note that the ground from the MIDI OUT port's device is not
connected to the ground of the MIDI IN port's device. This prevents ground
loops in systems where appropriate attention has not been paid to grounding
issues, such as the case of typical musicians in a typical club!

--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mkesti@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 9:36:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ibb001du2b2e3h26n38gbossg8e848vcm2@4ax.com>,
ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:43:38 GMT, for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com
> (Chris Pickett) wrote:
>
> >In article <290120052127161548%jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>, j t
> ><jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net> wrote:
> >
> >> MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
> >> information).
> >>
> >> XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
> >>
> >>
> >> They are not compatible in any way.
> >
> >MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
> >to be too expensive. By using the DIN5 connector, it became more
> >cost-effective to integrate, as well as being easier. By choosing a
> >standardized connection for In, Out and Thru also helped drive the costs
> >down. DIN connectors for cables are also cheap, and hence helps keep price
> >down. After all, who is using MIDI? A lot of musicians, who typically are
> >cheap.
> >
> >MIDI uses the inner 3 pins 0n the 5-pin connector.
>
> Is one of them a ground/shield (and perhaps not connected on both
> ends)? I recall the original spec (as published - I don't recall
> anything about using XLR connectors) using only two pins of the 5-pin
> DIN connector. The input is an optoisolator so there's no ground path,
> thus no ground loop, so I wonder about the cable (or is the
> ground/shield only connected on the output connector, not the in, or
> vice versa?)

Yes, the center pin is the ground/shield. Really, just a TX and RX on pins
2 and 3 respectively. I guess you don't need much over short runs using a
fixed async data rate of 31.2K. I'd personally have prefered a DTR or
simulated DSR, but it's not necessary especially since it's a
uni-directional dataflow on the wire.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 4:57:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:06:46 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>It is sometimes a judgment call to decide whether or not to
>restate the obvious.
>
>Presumably the OP knows what MIDI is if he is aking for it.

He thinks an XLR looks like a 5-DIN. Presume nothing :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 4:58:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:58:00 +1300, "Geoff Wood"
<geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:

>Que ?!!?
>
>The Audiophike USB has Audio, MIDI , and SPDIF inputs. Each are completely
>different things and have different connectors. You cannot record a mic
>directly into the unit, as it has LINE lewvel inputs. You will need a small
>mixer or mic preamp.

And the prize for a thoroughly confusing answer goes to..... :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 5:04:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:25:04 GMT, j t <jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>
wrote:

>MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
>information).
>
>XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
>
>
>They are not compatible in any way.

Another muddled confusing answer :-)

MIDI is a data-transfer protocol.

A 5-pin DIN is a type of connector.

XLR is a family of connectors. The 3-pin type is common, but there
are many others.

MIDI normally uses a 5-DIN connector. This connector is also used
for audio, and sometimes other purposes.

A 3-pin XLR is often used for audio. It may also be used for digital
signals. It is used in theatres for connecting cue-light systems,
and for sending DMX control data to advanced lighting equipment. It
is rarely used for MIDI.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 5:06:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:43:38 GMT, for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com
(Chris Pickett) wrote:

>MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
>to be too expensive.

Really? This must have been at a pre-production stage. The first
units sold with MIDI had 5-DIN connectors.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 5:06:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:43:38 GMT, for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com
> (Chris Pickett) wrote:
>
>
>>MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
>>to be too expensive.
>
>
> Really? This must have been at a pre-production stage. The first
> units sold with MIDI had 5-DIN connectors.


Right. And the spec said that if a mfg DID use XLR, they were required
to supply an adaptor set (DIN-XLR).
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 9:52:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:04:41 +0000, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:25:04 GMT, j t <jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>
>wrote:
>
>>MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
>>information).
>>
>>XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
>>
>>
>>They are not compatible in any way.
>
>Another muddled confusing answer :-)

I see a lot of those in this thread, but at least none are as bad
as the question!

>MIDI is a data-transfer protocol.

And with the release of MIDI File Format (that came out a few years
after the original MIDI standard), it's also a data storage protocol
(there were many sequencer programs out by then, and their data file
formats were proprietary and incompatible until the MIDI File Format
standard was released and they adopted it).
Then with General MIDI it also became a standard for which
instrument sound each program/patch number should give.

>A 5-pin DIN is a type of connector.

The 5-pin DIN connector was included as part of the original MIDI
spec:

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/abtmidi.shtml

[cue SNL cast]

MIDI is a desert topping, floor wax, and more!


>XLR is a family of connectors. The 3-pin type is common, but there
>are many others.
>
>MIDI normally uses a 5-DIN connector. This connector is also used
>for audio, and sometimes other purposes.
>
>A 3-pin XLR is often used for audio. It may also be used for digital
>signals. It is used in theatres for connecting cue-light systems,
>and for sending DMX control data to advanced lighting equipment. It
>is rarely used for MIDI.
>
> CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
>"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 1:40:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u807019o3ll0brq0rdr20k68m5nn9k2kt4@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:43:38 GMT, for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com
> (Chris Pickett) wrote:
>
>>MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
>>to be too expensive.
>
> Really? This must have been at a pre-production stage. The first
> units sold with MIDI had 5-DIN connectors.

The Prophet 600. I had one of those.
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 2:45:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:40:36 GMT, "Ricky Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>> Really? This must have been at a pre-production stage. The first
>> units sold with MIDI had 5-DIN connectors.
>
>The Prophet 600. I had one of those.

And the DX7. I owned both. Still have the Prophet 600. Offers?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 3:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Pickett wrote:
> In article <vsv601dr3ngfj9njk9fj2s5ue99gu29avq@4ax.com>, Laurence
Payne
> <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:25:04 GMT, j t <jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
> > >information).
> > >
> > >XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
> > >
> > >
> > >They are not compatible in any way.
> >
> > Another muddled confusing answer :-)
> >
> > MIDI is a data-transfer protocol.
> >
> > A 5-pin DIN is a type of connector.
> >
> > XLR is a family of connectors. The 3-pin type is common, but there
> > are many others.
> >
> > MIDI normally uses a 5-DIN connector. This connector is also
used
> > for audio, and sometimes other purposes.
>
> Such as older style AT keyboards.
>
> >
> > A 3-pin XLR is often used for audio. It may also be used for
digital
> > signals. It is used in theatres for connecting cue-light systems,
> > and for sending DMX control data to advanced lighting equipment.
It
> > is rarely used for MIDI.
> >
>
> And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
> commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
> applications.
>
> --
> The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
> Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
> California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!

> Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
> --
> Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA




Octave's "Voyetra 8" had MIDI on a XLR connector. it was a nice
machine, back in the day.
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 10:05:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <u807019o3ll0brq0rdr20k68m5nn9k2kt4@4ax.com>, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:43:38 GMT, for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com
> (Chris Pickett) wrote:
>
> >MIDI was originally designed using XLR connectors, but that was determined
> >to be too expensive.
>
> Really? This must have been at a pre-production stage. The first
> units sold with MIDI had 5-DIN connectors.

Yes, really. I did a lot of research on the history of MIDI when I was
doing a presentation to get(and secured) funding for a research project
back in 1992 for doing MIDI via wide area networks. As I said, it was
determined that musicians were too cheap to want to pay the extra for XLR
connectors, as well as it adding to confusion, so the DIN connector was
chosed for usage instead since it was a lot cheaper.

Of course, MIDI-capable units are still sold with 5-pin DIN connectors.
The outsite 2 are rarely, if ever used since it's only the middle three
that are implemented via the MIDI spec. The XLR-using MIDI units probably
never left the development labs and those XLR's were most likely swapped
for DIN connectors anyways while hammering things out, figuratively, I
hope.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 10:07:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <vsv601dr3ngfj9njk9fj2s5ue99gu29avq@4ax.com>, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:25:04 GMT, j t <jtREMOVETHIS@tydirium.net>
> wrote:
>
> >MIDI is a 5-pin DIN connector for transmiting data (computer
> >information).
> >
> >XLR is a 3-pin connector for audio (sound).
> >
> >
> >They are not compatible in any way.
>
> Another muddled confusing answer :-)
>
> MIDI is a data-transfer protocol.
>
> A 5-pin DIN is a type of connector.
>
> XLR is a family of connectors. The 3-pin type is common, but there
> are many others.
>
> MIDI normally uses a 5-DIN connector. This connector is also used
> for audio, and sometimes other purposes.

Such as older style AT keyboards.

>
> A 3-pin XLR is often used for audio. It may also be used for digital
> signals. It is used in theatres for connecting cue-light systems,
> and for sending DMX control data to advanced lighting equipment. It
> is rarely used for MIDI.
>

And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
applications.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 10:07:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <for_usenet-0502051106450001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa> for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:

> And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
> commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
> applications.

That's next on my list after mini phone plugs.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 8:48:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On 5 Feb 2005 12:13:46 -0800, "nmm" <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:
>
> >Octave's "Voyetra 8" had MIDI on a XLR connector. it was a nice
> >machine, back in the day.
>
> Was it shipped with the necessary adaptor?
>
> CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect


I remember the sales litreture saying " You can use a regular mic cable
for MIDI" . It was built like a "tank". A lot better than their
previous synths "The Cat" and "The Kitten". ARP sued them over the
"CAT" saying it was a copy of their ODYSSEY. The Voyetra seemed like it
was built by a differant company.
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 8:56:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1107637482k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com wrote:

> In article <for_usenet-0502051106450001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa>
for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:
>
> > And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
> > commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
> > applications.
>
> That's next on my list after mini phone plugs.
>

What a horrible connector for data purposes, in my opinion. Sheesh, I'd
rather have a real DB-9 connector so you know what the thing is for!

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 8:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris Pickett" <for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com> wrote in message
news:for_usenet-0602050955260001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa...
> In article <znr1107637482k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com wrote:
>
>> In article <for_usenet-0502051106450001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa>
> for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:
>>
>> > And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
>> > commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
>> > applications.
>>
>> That's next on my list after mini phone plugs.
>>
>
> What a horrible connector for data purposes, in my opinion. Sheesh,
> I'd
> rather have a real DB-9 connector so you know what the thing is for!


FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
appear to be overgrown and antique.
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 8:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <for_usenet-0602050955260001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa> for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:

> > > And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
> > > commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
> > > applications.
> >
> > That's next on my list after mini phone plugs.
> >
>
> What a horrible connector for data purposes, in my opinion. Sheesh, I'd
> rather have a real DB-9 connector so you know what the thing is for!

I'm not sure which you'd rather have it than. As far as I can
remember, the 25-pin D-subminiature connector (as well as the 9-pin)
have always been used for data. Every modem has one, as did most CRT
terminals.

Acutally, when I made my comment about mini phone pulgs, I didn't
notice the word "data" and was thinking in the context of the DB-25
used for 8 channels of analog audio, but, come to think of it, several
devices use the same connector for four AES/EBU digital pairs in and
out (unless you're Otari). When it comes to assembling a DB-25 with
eight shielded pairs, things get kind of tight, and the cable is
heavier (weight) than what those connectors were really designed for.
So you have something that's difficult to assemble without a few
shorts, plus the potential of straining the chassis connector. And
many people are too lazy to tighten the jackscrews.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 8:56:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:


> FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
> that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
> a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
> back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
> signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
> with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
> smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
> appear to be overgrown and antique.



You do recall correctly, although the signals on the DB-9 were the only
ones anybody used, so it wasn't so bad. Except the swapping of the
functions of pins 2 & 3 which confused everybody and showed that the
designer of same didn't understand RS-232.
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 11:29:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 5 Feb 2005 12:13:46 -0800, "nmm" <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:

>Octave's "Voyetra 8" had MIDI on a XLR connector. it was a nice
>machine, back in the day.

Was it shipped with the necessary adaptor?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 4:04:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:17:46 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
>that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
>a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
>back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
>signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
>with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
>smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
>appear to be overgrown and antique.

Which RS-232 signals from the DB-25 do you miss on the DB-9?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 4:04:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" wrote ...
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:17:46 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
>>FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
>>that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
>>a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
>>back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
>>signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
>>with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
>>smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
>>appear to be overgrown and antique.
>
> Which RS-232 signals from the DB-25 do you miss on the DB-9?

Sometimes I have secret longings for Secondary Clear to Send.
And all those Loopback pins were such fun in their day.
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 4:46:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>>
>> Which RS-232 signals from the DB-25 do you miss on the DB-9?
>
>Sometimes I have secret longings for Secondary Clear to Send.
>And all those Loopback pins were such fun in their day.

What could you do with them that you can't without them?
I'm genuinely interested :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 4:46:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:s2id01ltd4tnd2olfjbge7qb0ddje48qk0@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Which RS-232 signals from the DB-25 do you miss on the DB-9?
>>
>>Sometimes I have secret longings for Secondary Clear to Send.
>>And all those Loopback pins were such fun in their day.
>
> What could you do with them that you can't without them?
> I'm genuinely interested :-)

We used to go out carousing till the wee hours of the morning.
But I can't take that kind of partying anymore.

(I hope you don't think that I am being serious! :-)
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:27:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <fr2dnQYZy5iqLpvfRVn-vg@omsoft.com> nopsam@nospam.net writes:

> You do recall correctly, although the signals on the DB-9 were the only
> ones anybody used, so it wasn't so bad.

Synchronous modems need more than the basic 9 pins.

> Except the swapping of the
> functions of pins 2 & 3 which confused everybody and showed that the
> designer of same didn't understand RS-232.

Huh?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:27:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1107741616k@trad...
>
> In article <fr2dnQYZy5iqLpvfRVn-vg@omsoft.com> nopsam@nospam.net
> writes:
>
>> You do recall correctly, although the signals on the DB-9 were the
>> only
>> ones anybody used, so it wasn't so bad.
>
> Synchronous modems need more than the basic 9 pins.
>
>> Except the swapping of the
>> functions of pins 2 & 3 which confused everybody and showed that the
>> designer of same didn't understand RS-232.
>
> Huh?

See DCE vs DTE
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:40:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1107715705k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com wrote:

> In article <for_usenet-0602050955260001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa>
for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:
>
> > > > And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
> > > > commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
> > > > applications.
> > >
> > > That's next on my list after mini phone plugs.
> > >
> >
> > What a horrible connector for data purposes, in my opinion. Sheesh, I'd
> > rather have a real DB-9 connector so you know what the thing is for!
>
> I'm not sure which you'd rather have it than. As far as I can
> remember, the 25-pin D-subminiature connector (as well as the 9-pin)
> have always been used for data. Every modem has one, as did most CRT
> terminals.

I was talking about using a 1/8" TRS for a data connection. I've ran into
more than a few devices that do that, including one of my digital cameras.
1/8" TRS on camera end, DB-9 on the compter site.

I'm well aware of the RS232 ports for modems and such. I'm a data guy in
another life.

>
> Acutally, when I made my comment about mini phone pulgs, I didn't
> notice the word "data" and was thinking in the context of the DB-25
> used for 8 channels of analog audio, but, come to think of it, several
> devices use the same connector for four AES/EBU digital pairs in and
> out (unless you're Otari). When it comes to assembling a DB-25 with
> eight shielded pairs, things get kind of tight, and the cable is
> heavier (weight) than what those connectors were really designed for.

So true. I found a store that carried some DB-25's that were slightly
over-sized on the back(otherwise was standard, they worked great), and had
metal hoods. I made more than a few cables using all 25 connections. I
bought a bunch, but I moved 3 times since then and I'm afraid I've lost
the rest of them for good.

> So you have something that's difficult to assemble without a few
> shorts, plus the potential of straining the chassis connector. And
> many people are too lazy to tighten the jackscrews.

Don't go there!! I am notorious for checking other people's work. The way
I see it, better NOW than before it goes into production and falls apart.
But I'm sure you've seen more disasters than I have. I even have someone
else check my own work. I'm not perfect, I've made a mistake or three in
my time.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:45:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <110cnqb9l83fobe@corp.supernews.com>, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

> "Chris Pickett" <for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com> wrote in message
> news:for_usenet-0602050955260001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa...
> > In article <znr1107637482k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com wrote:
> >
> >> In article <for_usenet-0502051106450001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa>
> > for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:
> >>
> >> > And don't forget that Tascam and others are using DB-25 connectors
> >> > commonly used for data for their multi-channel connectors for audio
> >> > applications.
> >>
> >> That's next on my list after mini phone plugs.
> >>
> >
> > What a horrible connector for data purposes, in my opinion. Sheesh,
> > I'd
> > rather have a real DB-9 connector so you know what the thing is for!
>
>
> FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
> that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
> a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
> back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
> signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
> with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
> smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
> appear to be overgrown and antique.

Well, I'm rather disapointed in the lack of knowledge going around these
days when it comes to users and modems. Nobody even remembers how to issue
AT commands, and most don't even realize you can directly access the modem
via the com/Serial port.

I remember the DB-25 for serial. I still like it and prefer it, gets all
my necessary leads. The DB-9 was OK, but the DCE device was always DB-25
in my applications and environment. But, what choice do I have these days?
I can still control the DCE end of things since I don't use consumer grade
DCE equipment for the most part, but as far as the serial? Not much I can
do about that.

Before I was born, eh? Can't be too many generations, I was born at the
end of 1971. I'd have to check these OLD 9600 4-wire lease-line modems I
have laying around for their interfaces, and I have some older stuff than
that I'd have to dig through. Most of my digital stuff is connected via
v.35 connectors, often tied to a Cisco serial port, so sometimes I have
pigtail cables, sometimes not, depends on the scenario.

Now things are going USB and firewire. The plug and play aspect is nice,
when it works. It still appears that things are still being overly dumbed
down for the masses.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:47:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <rcfd01t886jmm5i2h831nnl2sla2nl8eqn@4ax.com>, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:17:46 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
> >FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
> >that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
> >a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
> >back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
> >signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
> >with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
> >smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
> >appear to be overgrown and antique.
>
> Which RS-232 signals from the DB-25 do you miss on the DB-9?
>
If I find my cable tester and I remember this, leave your question in the
thread, there are quite a few leads that can be proven highly useful. Many
though are used for syncronous signalling though. The biggest issue really
comes to "does the DCE device support more than just what is typically
wired on a DB-9"?

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:54:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <fr2dnQYZy5iqLpvfRVn-vg@omsoft.com>, S O'Neill
<nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:

> Richard Crowley wrote:
>
>
> > FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
> > that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
> > a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
> > back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
> > signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
> > with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
> > smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
> > appear to be overgrown and antique.
>
>
>
> You do recall correctly, although the signals on the DB-9 were the only
> ones anybody used, so it wasn't so bad. Except the swapping of the
> functions of pins 2 & 3 which confused everybody and showed that the
> designer of same didn't understand RS-232.

I typically found that devices that swapped 2 & 3 were really not what
people thought that they were. Sometimes DCE and DTE can get confusing in
complex(and not typical) environments, especially way back in the day.

But I have seen some beta-revision hardware prototypes with those sorts of
errors. You'd think the leads would be one of the first things to be
confirmed properly.

--
The Deadbeats' Hall of Lame: http://www.studio42.org/
Where spammers are exposed for the deadbeats they truly are.
California Resident says: We've upped our standards, so now UP YOURS!
Don't respond to this address. It's invalid and I own the domain.
--
Giang Tien Audio: http://www.giangtien.com/ Sacramento, CA
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 10:54:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Pickett wrote:

> I typically found that devices that swapped 2 & 3 were really not what
> people thought that they were. Sometimes DCE and DTE can get confusing in
> complex(and not typical) environments, especially way back in the day.


Anything other than an actual terminal to an actual modem was abuse, not
compliant.



> But I have seen some beta-revision hardware prototypes with those sorts of
> errors. You'd think the leads would be one of the first things to be
> confirmed properly.


I saw a product line of 900-MHz telemetry transceiver ($3k ea) that had
the serial port completely wrong - all the signals were inverted, the
breakout box was all red. I spent about half an hour giving the
president and engineer a lesson in RS-232, all the while they muttered
amongst themselves. Never hear of that brand again. They were also
saying things like "the micro-p has crashed". Wasted about a day of our
time and five years of theirs.
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 11:01:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

>>Except the swapping of the
>>functions of pins 2 & 3 which confused everybody and showed that the
>>designer of same didn't understand RS-232.
>
>
> Huh?


All but on of the pins got new number assignments (DSR on pin 6 stayed
the same), but people assued that since 2 and 3 were reversed (TXD is
pin 2 on the DB-25, pin 3 on the DB-9) that they thought that the null
modem connections were somehow already taken care of. I don't know why
they thought that so I can't explain their logic, but I had to explain
their error to them too many times. I think the IBM designer who made
the new assignments thought that he or she was doing something smart.

Never underestimate the stupidity of a Civil engineer.
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 11:44:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:17:46 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
><rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
>>FIY: DB-25 was the 2nd-generation standard for data comms
>>that came into use possibly before you were born. DB-9 is
>>a bastard "standard" invented by IBM to save space on the
>>back of the PS2 (IIRC). They ignored so many of the RS-232
>>signals, that they made a "Readers' Digest Condensed Version"
>>with DB-9. Now, with portable devices getting smaller and
>>smaller, even DB-9 (or, more properly "A-size") connectors
>>appear to be overgrown and antique.
>
>Which RS-232 signals from the DB-25 do you miss on the DB-9?

Most of the handshaking. Stuff like carrier-detect and all of the
stuff required for synchronous connections. RS-232C also has a
second serial connection on the jack which was originally intended
for autodialers (so the dialing signals would be out of band), and
that's right out.

Admittedly most vendors never did implement the synchronous stuff
or half the handshaking, but they at least had DTR, DSR, and CD
for the most part.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 12:01:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <for_usenet-0602052339240001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa> for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:

> I was talking about using a 1/8" TRS for a data connection. I've ran into
> more than a few devices that do that, including one of my digital cameras.
> 1/8" TRS on camera end, DB-9 on the compter site.

GAAAAKKKKK!!!

Now that I think of it, the Core Sound Mic2496 uses a mini jack for
its "coax" S/PDIF output.

The Jukebox 3 has a 1/8" jack for digital input, but it's optical -
there's an optical sensor at the inside end of the jack and I guess
all it needs is to get enough light out of the end of a fiber optic
cable.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 12:01:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <for_usenet-0602052345090001@3.0-24.42.1.10.in-addr.arpa> for_usenet@invalid.studio42.com writes:

> Well, I'm rather disapointed in the lack of knowledge going around these
> days when it comes to users and modems. Nobody even remembers how to issue
> AT commands, and most don't even realize you can directly access the modem
> via the com/Serial port.

We remember it, but they don't give us the tools for doing it any
more. I guess you can still send commands from DOS, but I don't know
if Windows even still comes with the terminal program.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!