Oblivion: Combat

[Guest]

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For those that didn't see this yet:

http://www.morrowind.com/codex/team_teamprof_stevem.htm

It's a run down on the basics of combat. Looks much more detailed than
Morrowind, I have not played the Gothics (where are they in the stores
for fuctsake) so I can't comment on those. It's definatly more
arcade-like and less ultima underworldish.

Some quotes for those that don't want to read the whole thing:

"If you click again at a certain point in the swing, you can perform
another attack on the back swing - so you can do multiple slashes with
your weapon by properly timed clicks of the attack button."

"Now there are two reasons to block - to protect yourself from maximum
damage, and to try to force your opponent to recoil so you can perform
a counter attack."

"you can cast spells at any time. You no longer need to "switch" to
magic."

and of course the most important thing to me at least:
"First of all, NPC's can do everything the player can do. They can move
around, block, use normal and power attacks, mix things up with weapon
or hand-to-hand combat, or magic, etc. So can creatures. And it's all
customizable using a new feature called a Combat Style."

 

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Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though your
character did block, you could get knock downs and you could hit (and
be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you had was
stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little control over
anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.

 

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"littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote in message
news:1127327347.549494.193760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though your
> character did block, you could get knock downs and you could hit (and
> be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you had was
> stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little control over
> anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.

This is true. The one area I hated most of the Morrowind series was the
basic combat...

 

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Bitstring <1127314265.351626.320680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, from
the wonderful person littlemute <littlemute@woodenmen.org> said
>For those that didn't see this yet:
>
>http://www.morrowind.com/codex/team_teamprof_stevem.htm
>
>It's a run down on the basics of combat. Looks much more detailed than
>Morrowind, I have not played the Gothics (where are they in the stores

They are pretty much out-of-print .. Gothic1 sells for silly prices, G2
is available at reasonable prices from various amazon marketplace
sellers, but major games chains won't have them on the shelves (except
maybe used versions).

Afaict G1 was never re-issued to coincide with G2 release.

Yet more examples of the way the games industry spends mega$$ developing
something and then totally screws up the basics of getting it to the
customers when/where/if they want it. Like how much can it cost to
re-issue G1 ...

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

 

[jwb]

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"littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote in message
news:1127314265.351626.320680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> "If you click again at a certain point in the swing, you can perform
> another attack on the back swing - so you can do multiple slashes with
> your weapon by properly timed clicks of the attack button."

ugh... sounds like Morrowind meets Mortal Kombat.

 

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"jwb" <jwb3333removethis@excite.com> wrote:
>"littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote in message
>> "If you click again at a certain point in the swing, you can perform
>> another attack on the back swing - so you can do multiple slashes with
>> your weapon by properly timed clicks of the attack button."
>ugh... sounds like Morrowind meets Mortal Kombat.

It sounds like combat in Jade Empire (which I enjoyed a lot!)

--
Lucian

 

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Bateau wrote:
> "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
> >Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though your
> >character did block, you could get knock downs and you could hit (and
> >be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you had was
> >stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little control over
> >anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
>
> I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based on
> your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own skill at
> waving a mouse around.
Exactly my opinion. If I decide to play a *role*playing game is
because I want my character's abilities to be more important than my
player's abilities when determining battle action results. Otherwise
I'd go ahead and play Heretic 2!
But all we're seeing now is the 'consolization' of the Elder Scroll
games, period.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

What's wrong with heretic 2?

I know what you're saying, no one wants ES to turn into an action
platformer, but as much as we may try to pretend it's not, in many ways
it's very much like Mario 64. Who doesn't move in close to an enemy to
strike and then widen the distance so that the enemy's attack
automatically misses (doesn't work all that great because for some
reason you will get hit before attack animation completes, but you can
still try)? Who doesn't try to make crazy jumps to get over the
mountains so they don't have to walk all the way around on the curvy
roads to get back to Balmora? Tell me you didn't jump down from the
cantons in vivec to save time? Who doesn't flick out behind cover to
shoot an enemy archer and then back in again? I think the ES team is
just giving into the fact that what they see players trying to do
(circle strafing, flicking, etc) because the engine IS an FPS one
shouldn't be shunned but should simply be integrated into the gameplay.

The integration of the platformer/FPS aspect and the RPG abilities is
the beauty of the series, from daggerfall up to now, and I want to see
it evolve.

 

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littlemute wrote:
> What's wrong with heretic 2?
>
Nothing wrong as a game, it was a nice 'Quake in fantasy setting', but
an RPG it was not. When I play an RPG, I want my character's stats to
be all important. A master archer that shoots at my naked fat drunk lvl
1 0 in all stats character should hit, regardless that I am an expert
Quake player and move away before the arrow hits.

 

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GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> skrev i meddelelsen
news:BnNrN7CFfXMDFA0e@from.is.invalid:

> They are pretty much out-of-print .. Gothic1 sells for silly prices, G2

Silly prices? Do I have a fortune sitting on my shelf, or...?

--
Arcana Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
d++e++N++T+++Om-KAWML!34567'!S'!8!9!u+uC+uF+++uG-u
LB®----uAnC+nH++nP+nI----nPT-nS+++nT----o---oE---xz
http://www.phyton.dk/games.htm

 

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"littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>For those that didn't see this yet:
>
>http://www.morrowind.com/codex/team_teamprof_stevem.htm
>
>It's a run down on the basics of combat. Looks much more detailed than
>Morrowind, I have not played the Gothics (where are they in the stores
>for fuctsake) so I can't comment on those. It's definatly more
>arcade-like and less ultima underworldish.
>
>Some quotes for those that don't want to read the whole thing:
>
> "If you click again at a certain point in the swing, you can perform
>another attack on the back swing - so you can do multiple slashes with
>your weapon by properly timed clicks of the attack button."
>
>"Now there are two reasons to block - to protect yourself from maximum
>damage, and to try to force your opponent to recoil so you can perform
>a counter attack."
>
>"you can cast spells at any time. You no longer need to "switch" to
>magic."
>
>and of course the most important thing to me at least:
>"First of all, NPC's can do everything the player can do. They can move
>around, block, use normal and power attacks, mix things up with weapon
>or hand-to-hand combat, or magic, etc. So can creatures. And it's all
>customizable using a new feature called a Combat Style."

So in other words you are going to need reflexes like in beat em up
games.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though your
>character did block, you could get knock downs and you could hit (and
>be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you had was
>stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little control over
>anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.

I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based on
your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own skill at
waving a mouse around.

 

[Guest]

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Bitstring <4332fcea$0$210$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>, from the
wonderful person Arcana Dragon <this@ress.is.invalid> said
>GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> skrev i meddelelsen
>news:BnNrN7CFfXMDFA0e@from.is.invalid:
>
>> They are pretty much out-of-print .. Gothic1 sells for silly prices, G2
>
>Silly prices? Do I have a fortune sitting on my shelf, or...?

Well www.amazon.co.uk had one listed for about $60 last time I looked. I
consider that pretty silly for a game that ought be in the bargain bins
at $10 or so. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

 

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"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message
news:0m55j1pvhta2np8anqkqqs8h7lm10gsjck@4ax.com...
> "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>>Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though your
>>character did block, you could get knock downs and you could hit (and
>>be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you had was
>>stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little control over
>>anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
>
> I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based on
> your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own skill at
> waving a mouse around.

Agreed.

--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
"Now, quack, damn you!"

Multiversal Mercenaries
You name it, we kill it. Any time, any reality.

 

[Guest]

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>>and of course the most important thing to me at least:
>>"First of all, NPC's can do everything the player can do. They can move
>>around, block, use normal and power attacks, mix things up with weapon
>>or hand-to-hand combat, or magic, etc. So can creatures. And it's all
>>customizable using a new feature called a Combat Style."

>So in other words you are going to need reflexes like in beat em up
>games.

Yeah, why can't they just have the semi real time skill based system
every other PC rpg has. Nothing wrong with that if it's done well. (WoW
and GW are good examples)

 

[Guest]

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BombayMix wrote:
> >>and of course the most important thing to me at least:
> >>"First of all, NPC's can do everything the player can do. They can move
> >>around, block, use normal and power attacks, mix things up with weapon
> >>or hand-to-hand combat, or magic, etc. So can creatures. And it's all
> >>customizable using a new feature called a Combat Style."
>
> >So in other words you are going to need reflexes like in beat em up
> >games.
>
> Yeah, why can't they just have the semi real time skill based system
> every other PC rpg has. Nothing wrong with that if it's done well. (WoW
> and GW are good examples)
My point too. Just because the character's stats define the outcome of
actions doesn't mean the game is 'turn based'. There is a lot of
movement in games like City of Heroes, and it feels real time, but all
the actions are resolved depending on the character vs. mob stats and
the random result of that

 

[Guest]

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Quoth The Raven: wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> in
1127397447.117704.99070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Bateau wrote:
>> "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>>> Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though
>>> your character did block, you could get knock downs and you could
>>> hit (and be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you
>>> had was stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little
>>> control over anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
>>
>> I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based on
>> your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own skill
>> at waving a mouse around.
> Exactly my opinion. If I decide to play a *role*playing game is
> because I want my character's abilities to be more important than my
> player's abilities when determining battle action results. Otherwise
> I'd go ahead and play Heretic 2!
> But all we're seeing now is the 'consolization' of the Elder Scroll
> games, period.

heretic 2 was amazing, why hasnt anyone used that combat style in other
games?

--
Quick brown fox goes around lazy dog.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me

 

[Guest]

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"wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>
>BombayMix wrote:
>> >>and of course the most important thing to me at least:
>> >>"First of all, NPC's can do everything the player can do. They can move
>> >>around, block, use normal and power attacks, mix things up with weapon
>> >>or hand-to-hand combat, or magic, etc. So can creatures. And it's all
>> >>customizable using a new feature called a Combat Style."
>>
>> >So in other words you are going to need reflexes like in beat em up
>> >games.
>>
>> Yeah, why can't they just have the semi real time skill based system
>> every other PC rpg has. Nothing wrong with that if it's done well. (WoW
>> and GW are good examples)
>My point too. Just because the character's stats define the outcome of
>actions doesn't mean the game is 'turn based'. There is a lot of
>movement in games like City of Heroes, and it feels real time, but all
>the actions are resolved depending on the character vs. mob stats and
>the random result of that

Not to mention that CoH at least has a combat system where enemies make
their combat roll (and succeed or fail) instantly, even if they won't be
able to actually do the move for several seconds.
In practical term this means that if you try the shoot and duck behind
cover routine, they will hit you back, because their "shot" was made
during that nanosecond when you were visible and if it "succeeds" will
hit you regardless of what cover you're behind now.

Also see the snipers who can see, aim and shoot you as you are briefly
visible between buildings 1000 feet away and traveling at 80mph even if
the gap they saw you through was only 6 inches wide.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

 

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"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>Quoth The Raven: wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> in
>1127397447.117704.99070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>> Bateau wrote:
>>> "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>>>> Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though
>>>> your character did block, you could get knock downs and you could
>>>> hit (and be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice you
>>>> had was stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very little
>>>> control over anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
>>>
>>> I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based on
>>> your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own skill
>>> at waving a mouse around.
>> Exactly my opinion. If I decide to play a *role*playing game is
>> because I want my character's abilities to be more important than my
>> player's abilities when determining battle action results. Otherwise
>> I'd go ahead and play Heretic 2!
>> But all we're seeing now is the 'consolization' of the Elder Scroll
>> games, period.
>
>heretic 2 was amazing, why hasnt anyone used that combat style in other
>games?

I didn't play much of Heretic 2 but Jedi Knight 2 is a bit like that.

 

[Guest]

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Quoth The Raven: Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> in
3pi7j1h8o7vk3fpnfvieiufsl0i3ac6c6c@4ax.com
> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>> Quoth The Raven: wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> in
>> 1127397447.117704.99070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>> Bateau wrote:
>>>> "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>>>>> Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though
>>>>> your character did block, you could get knock downs and you could
>>>>> hit (and be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice
>>>>> you had was stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very
>>>>> little control over anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based
>>>> on your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own
>>>> skill at waving a mouse around.
>>> Exactly my opinion. If I decide to play a *role*playing game is
>>> because I want my character's abilities to be more important than my
>>> player's abilities when determining battle action results.
>>> Otherwise I'd go ahead and play Heretic 2!
>>> But all we're seeing now is the 'consolization' of the Elder Scroll
>>> games, period.
>>
>> heretic 2 was amazing, why hasnt anyone used that combat style in
>> other games?
>
> I didn't play much of Heretic 2 but Jedi Knight 2 is a bit like that.

I was thinking more like the way you fight with a staff, that was
inspirational

--
I poured Spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me

 

[Guest]

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"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>Quoth The Raven: Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> in
>3pi7j1h8o7vk3fpnfvieiufsl0i3ac6c6c@4ax.com
>> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>> Quoth The Raven: wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> in
>>> 1127397447.117704.99070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>>> Bateau wrote:
>>>>> "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Yet the combat in Morrowind was just stand still and hit. Though
>>>>>> your character did block, you could get knock downs and you could
>>>>>> hit (and be hit) out of your attack animations, the only choice
>>>>>> you had was stand and hit, cast a spell, or run away with very
>>>>>> little control over anything. It is like Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer blocking, knocking down etc to happen automatically based
>>>>> on your character's skill at blocking, strength etc not your own
>>>>> skill at waving a mouse around.
>>>> Exactly my opinion. If I decide to play a *role*playing game is
>>>> because I want my character's abilities to be more important than my
>>>> player's abilities when determining battle action results.
>>>> Otherwise I'd go ahead and play Heretic 2!
>>>> But all we're seeing now is the 'consolization' of the Elder Scroll
>>>> games, period.
>>>
>>> heretic 2 was amazing, why hasnt anyone used that combat style in
>>> other games?
>>
>> I didn't play much of Heretic 2 but Jedi Knight 2 is a bit like that.
>
>I was thinking more like the way you fight with a staff, that was
>inspirational

Seemed like a hassle to me. You don't need the character to weild a
staff to get him to do acrobatic moves like that.

 

[Guest]

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Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>heretic 2 was amazing, why hasnt anyone used that combat style in other
>games?

Because that's not how combat is done in RPG's.

Come on, get with the genre-defining formulaic programme here!

Actually when I first got Guild Wars I was _hoping_ it'd use fps style
combat (like Heretic2), but alas, it used standard mmorpg combat.

Operation: Fantasy. Now there's a game waiting to be written.


--
"Forgive Russia. Ignore Germany. Punish France."
-- Condoleezza Rice, at the time National Security Adviser, on how to deal
with european opposition to the war in Iraq. 2003.

 

[Guest]

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Just change your name to "Batsu" and you'll be fine.