Techniques for Recording a Tight, Full Bass

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I know it's unlikely to happen, but I would love to sit in on a mixing
session with a top industry recording pro to try and learn how these
guys get that lovely, deep, full, warm, tight, well rounded and even
slighty spacious bass sound on so many contemporary albums these days,
particularly dance music. It just sits in the mix perfectly with such
richness and doesn't overpower even modest PC speakers.

I have tried in vain to recreate it at home and I know and accept that
I do not have the same kit nor the experience and skills of these
masters, but surely I should be able to come close if I apply the same
techniques and principles with the kit that I do have: PC, Cubase SX3,
Waves Plugins, KRK RP5 monitors.

In listening and analysing the bass end of current pro releases, it
would seem to me that obviously compression is being used, that's an
obvious given. Then something is being done to give the bass a bit of
width, I can only think it might be a hint of chorus or a stereo delay
of a few milliseconds... Then there is the frequency content, it
sounds really rich and full, sitting in the mix perfectly without
killing the speakers either. It may be down to very careful and
selective eq'ing to sculpt the perfect bass curve but perhaps also
psycho acoustic processing is the key here. I have tried the Wave Maxx
Bass plugin which I believe adds LF harmonic content but I was
disappointed with the results and preferred the sound without the
plugin. Perhaps I'm not using it correctly or effectively...

Anyway, if there are any pros who'd liked to share some insight into
the alchemy of getting a pro bass sound on a mix, then your expertise
would be most gratefully received.

Cheers!

Mike

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I have tried in vain to recreate it at home and I know and accept that
> I do not have the same kit nor the experience and skills of these
> masters, but surely I should be able to come close if I apply the same
> techniques and principles with the kit that I do have: PC, Cubase SX3,
> Waves Plugins, KRK RP5 monitors.

Well, you are probably trying to do too much. I remember years ago when
i was first mixing and i had the same problem. Using the MaxxBass,
Compressors, EQ's everything. I am a bass player myself and after
aquiring some better gear for playing shows with, i found that my
recorded sounded improved by leaps and bounds. Simply by taking a
Balanced out from my Ampeg SVT into the balanced input of my MOTU 896 i
found amazing sound that i didn't even have to touch.

This is another one of those topics where it comes down to having a
confident and consistent player, a well built bass guitar whose tone is
predictably controlled throughout the range of the instrument, a well
built amp and a good means of getting that signal into the recorded
domain. If you have those things, you job as an engineer just got a lot
easier. Unfortunately, in terms of gear the rig i just described would
cost in the area of 6000 dollars (not including the recording hardware).
I'm a firm believer (and so is anyone else on this newsgroup), that
the source is absolutely vital to the sound of the final product.

The other end contributing to the tight bass is the kick drum. Same
thing applies here. A good player, a good drum, a good mic and a good pre.

On the technical side of things i would suggest a bunch of things:
1. The bass drum and the bass guitar (or other bass instruments) need to
work together in the mix. If both instruments are very big sounding in
the 100Hz (for example) range, then the outcome is going to be muddy
because you've got both sounds competing for the same frequency
real-estate.
2. To help with the first point, make sure that most of your EQ moves
are subtractive as opposed to boosting the lows. I've found that a key
to clarity in the low end is carving away the fat you don't need. And
then, if need be, subtely add frequencies for definition. Some famous
engineers have said that if you want to mix elements then subtract EQ,
if you want to bring out, or emphasize and element, THEN add EQ.
3. Some compressors, like the Waves C-1, allow for a sidechain input.
This basically uses the signal from the bass drum energy to tell the
bass guitar's compressor to squeeze. The result is that when the bass
drum strikes, the bass guitar instantly drops in level and jumps back up
very quickly (if you're doing it correctly you shouldn't actually HEAR
this change, you will only notice an added clarity to the bass drums
attack).

> Anyway, if there are any pros who'd liked to share some insight into
> the alchemy of getting a pro bass sound on a mix, then your expertise
> would be most gratefully received.

Just keep in mind to really work hard on getting the sound of the
instrument sounding as good as it can. Don't rely on the mix stage to
fix and clear up problems that originated on the recording floor. In an
ideal situation plug-ins and effects of any kind should be used for
creative purposes, not as remedies for avoidable problems at the sound
source. Hope this helps!

> Cheers!
>
> Mike

Take care,

Mike Rocha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The tight, punchy, low bass you're hearing in most pop music today is
not only samples...more than likely, but just about always doubled with
a Moog or virtual Moog. Yes, compression is a part of it, but what
you're hearing is probably 20% real bass being playing through an
amp...if even that high, maybe another 30-40% direct signal through an
expensive direct box and then something like an 1176, then the rest is
Moog.
later,
m

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Grant wrote:

> While we're on the subject of recording bass, I (a rank amateur)
> recently had the task of mixing down a bunch of digital tracks that were
> recorded during a live performance of my band. The bass track used the
> direct-out from the bassist's amp and was recorded without EQ.

> When attempting to mix these down, I found that the bass track had an
> incredible amount of annoying string squeaks and fret buzzes in it. I
> had to apply pretty heavy EQ (bass boost, mid and treble cut) to make
> that junk less audible in the mix. Our bass player points out that you
> never hear all of that in the live sound from the bass amp, because the
> amp/speaker don't reproduce higher frequencies very well. That may be
> true, but I'm wondering how much of what I'm hearing is just intrinsic
> to DI recording of bass, and how much is a function of the bass guitar
> itself and/or the player.

DI's are all over the place in relation to the amped sound, but still, a
well adjusted instrument in the hands of a skilled player makes a world
of difference in the fretboard racket. That noise _does_ affect what
comes out of the amp, and I don't like to have to work with folks who
suggest it'll never be heard for whatever reason.

Years ago I called a good friend and fine drummer for some session work.
While dialing-in the drum sound I heard a little rattle in his kit, and
told him about it. He replied that we'd never hear it in the mix. I
never called him again for any session work. Get a few such noises going
and yes, their sum is right there screwing with the mix.

That said, the DI box used also has a large effect. Give me an Evil
Twin.

--
ha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ctmf06$hdb$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>, Grant
<gpetty@REMOVEaos.wisc.edu> wrote:

> but I'm wondering how much of what I'm hearing is just intrinsic
> to DI recording of bass, and how much is a function of the bass guitar
> itself and/or the player.

It requires excellent technique and concentration to play into a DI
cleanly, and still maintain great feel. It's stuff like that, IMHO, that
seperates a pro from an amateur. But recording strictly DI IMHO is not
the best method to record a bass, just the most convenient.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

How exact is the doubling? I am assuming the moog sounds have a slower
attack to give you some fudge factor or else you are cutting and
pasting for hours.

I think Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys pioneered this by doubling his
bass with an organ (B3?). Interesting stuff. db

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

db wrote:
> How exact is the doubling? I am assuming the moog sounds have a slower
> attack to give you some fudge factor or else you are cutting and
> pasting for hours.

If you have your gear set up properly it can be EXTREMELY accurate. I
saw the whole hook-up and it went like this: throw the bass drum into a
mult and send it to the synth's audio input (in this case an ARP 2600)
from the ARP send it into a gate so that the attack and release can be
controlled. The synth must be patched in such a way that the audio is
synthesized into a sine wave, or whatever the hell you want. Patch the
synths output back into the board on a sepearte strip, and suddenly you
have a tuneable, and totally adjustable sub bass reinforcement of the
kick. Sounds great too. If you're doing this within the analog domain
and your gates are set up well then there should be no problemo.

Roach