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AM Radio Broadcast Mics on a small budget

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Anonymous
January 30, 2005 10:45:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Helo everyone,
I work for a non-profit organization that is in the process of starting
up a low power AM radio station. We need to buy four mics for on-air
hosts/DJ's. One mic will be the primary go to mic. The other 3 for
guests and discussion shows. Our budget is $475 or under for all 4.
(Yikes! - I know). That pretty much takes the RE20 and SM7 out of the
equation. My current thought is: Studio Projects C1 (has high pass)
as primary. 2 MXL V67G's as secondary and then either a MXL V57m or
used SM57/SM58 with the left over $. Am I shooting myself in the foot
getting large diaphragm condensers without lo cut (MXL V67). Maybe
careful positioning of a pop filter will keep people from eating the
mics and producing the proximity effect? There will be no processing
on the mics other than compression/limiting on the whole mix before
broadcast. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan Fox
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:01:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:
>Helo everyone,
>I work for a non-profit organization that is in the process of starting
>up a low power AM radio station. We need to buy four mics for on-air
>hosts/DJ's. One mic will be the primary go to mic. The other 3 for
>guests and discussion shows. Our budget is $475 or under for all 4.

EV 635A.
Honest. Try it.
You'll find you can stick three people on one mike and get away with it,
too, if your room is dead enough in the upper midrange.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 4:12:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Our room will be minimally treated, so we're best off sticking with
cardioids. Stands/booms are not included in the budget. For now there
will be no eq or processing of the vocals in the chain, so the sound
has to be workable right off the bat. The AT2020 does look
interesting, but it too has no lo cut... How is the proximity effect
with that mic Ty? SM57's with windscreens (for the secondary mics) are
sounding better the more I think about it. Is there such a thing as a
shock mount for a 57? Any thoughts on the C1 ($200) or MXL V67 ($100)
for this purpose?

Thanks,

Dan



Matt wrote:
> >
> > Right. The AT2020. $99. See an mp4 video clip review on my website.
> It in my
> > article review archive in a folder called Quickies.
> I think Ty likes this mic....
Related resources
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 4:17:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ok - no I just heard Ty's AT2020 quickie. Not bad! The proximity is
totally workable especially with the windscreen. Hmmm...
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 5:09:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:45:35 -0500, Daniel Fox wrote
(in article <1107099935.946216.54630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):

> Helo everyone,
> I work for a non-profit organization that is in the process of starting
> up a low power AM radio station. We need to buy four mics for on-air
> hosts/DJ's. One mic will be the primary go to mic. The other 3 for
> guests and discussion shows. Our budget is $475 or under for all 4.
> (Yikes! - I know). That pretty much takes the RE20 and SM7 out of the
> equation. My current thought is: Studio Projects C1 (has high pass)
> as primary. 2 MXL V67G's as secondary and then either a MXL V57m or
> used SM57/SM58 with the left over $. Am I shooting myself in the foot
> getting large diaphragm condensers without lo cut (MXL V67). Maybe
> careful positioning of a pop filter will keep people from eating the
> mics and producing the proximity effect? There will be no processing
> on the mics other than compression/limiting on the whole mix before
> broadcast. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Fox
>

Right. The AT2020. $99. See an mp4 video clip review on my website. It in my
article review archive in a folder called Quickies.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 5:19:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:

>
> You've no EQ in the rig?


Its a low power AM station that will be run out of an afterschool
program (some of the work will be done by teenagers.) As of right now
we have an older Wheatstone board with no eq (!) going to a compressor
(maybe an RNC) to the transmitting gear. As the station grows and we
recieve more funding, the bells and whistles will fall into place.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 5:30:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The last time I was a chief engineer, quite a few years ago, was at a 3
station facility, 2 FM's & 1 AM. We had Sennheiser 421's, EV RE20's and
Shure SM58's. The SM58's sounded best on the AM. I have been doing
sound rental work and have found the Sennheiser E835 to be similar to
the SM58, but a little brighter sounding which would make the voices
cut through a little better. Singly they are priced at $99.95, same as
the SM58 at an online music store(such as Sam Ash) but are available in
a 3-pack for $199.95.
If I were doing what you're doing, I'd use the E835.

Lee Salter

Daniel Fox wrote:
> Helo everyone,
> I work for a non-profit organization that is in the process of
starting
> up a low power AM radio station. We need to buy four mics for on-air
> hosts/DJ's.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 7:00:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hank the Behringer DEQ2496 looks like a lot of stuff in one box.
Transparency-wise dare I ask if it can hang with the RNC?
JV - you mentioned the ATM Pro 25. I like the fact that it is a
hypercardioid dynamic, and will probably keep any room noise out - but
(from advertising print) it looks like it might be a bassy/poppy mic on
vocals. How does it stack up against a SM57 for example? The price
sure is right ($60).

Dan
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 7:27:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Helo everyone,
>> I work for a non-profit organization that is in the process of starting
>> up a low power AM radio station. We need to buy four mics for on-air
>> hosts/DJ's. One mic will be the primary go to mic. The other 3 for
>> guests and discussion shows. Our budget is $475 or under for all 4.

On 1/30/05 11:01 AM, in article ctj0cm$nqr$1@panix2.panix.com, "Scott
Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote:>
> EV 635A.
> Honest. Try it.
> You'll find you can stick three people on one mike and get away with it,
> too, if your room is dead enough in the upper midrange.
> --scott

Ow.... Only if your room is pretty darned dead. I love the 365 in the field,
and on anything where you WANT The Room and/or a group-thing going but in a
(probably) smallish office/talk-studio thing I'd be happier with a quartet
of 58's (or better, 57's with serious foam covers).
What are the AT model 25's going for? They're dandy voice mics.

Other thing is stand-born-table-noise... Without something like the AT shock
mounts (either version) on each mic this could be a MESS. If the $500 is
ONLY mics then you have some good possibilities here but if the stands and
shocks and windscreen heads have to come out of that too you're in trouble.

If you go with a typical cardioid (58/57/421/whatever) and no tone controls
on the mixer, then that prox hump HAS to be taken out in the chain
SOMEWHERE... If all the mics match then you can just dial out the 180hz hump
in the EQ/AGC chain at the final.


Returning with Howdies to
Roger,
Mike,
Scott,
Brian R,
Ty,
Hank,
Kurt,
John B,
and any other Legacy folks still
astoundingly hanging in here with the madness


--
JV
--

REAL PHONE DRIVING FACTS:
The phone conversation itself was the single major distraction for
motorists, in addition to the distraction of handling the phone. There was
no impairment of drivers who either conversed with a passenger or who
listened to the radio or to books on tape. Cell-phone conversations are more
distracting than those activities, and hands-free and hand-held cell phone
users were equally impaired when driving.

Additionally, using a cell phone makes drivers insensitive to their own
impaired driving behavior. Cell phone users look but don't really "see" or
pay attention to their surroundings.

Cell phone use by drivers increases traffic congestion, it probably
increases road rage, and it increases air pollution because cell phone users
are decreasing the volume of traffic that can flow on a freeway at any point
in time,
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 8:17:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 30 Jan 2005 16:00:16 -0800, "Daniel Fox" <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hank the Behringer DEQ2496 looks like a lot of stuff in one box.
>Transparency-wise dare I ask if it can hang with the RNC?

I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
transparent.

Al

>JV - you mentioned the ATM Pro 25. I like the fact that it is a
>hypercardioid dynamic, and will probably keep any room noise out - but
>(from advertising print) it looks like it might be a bassy/poppy mic on
>vocals. How does it stack up against a SM57 for example? The price
>sure is right ($60).
>
>Dan
January 30, 2005 9:32:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'd buy a handfull of Nady SP-1's and take the money you save and use
it for something important, like a good gentle processor or EQ or 100
other things you're going to need much more than a perfectly
transparnet mic.

How about some ENG equipment to gather some interesting local news.

It's AM, what kind of radios are folks going to be listening on. Your
listeners are way more interested in the content then they are in the
audio quality.

Mark
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:07:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I believe the EV RE16 is still available new,
and certainly could be found used as well
as the RE11. I'm a big fan of EV mics in
general and in particular for broadcast use
based in my experience.
I also don't think a condensor is anything
but overkill for an AM station ...

rd
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:08:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel Fox wrote:

> The AT2020 does look
> interesting, but it too has no lo cut...

You've no EQ in the rig?

--
ha
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:09:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

you guys are great - thanks for all this help. The radio thing is a
whole new learning curve for me.
A few folks have suggested that fidelity is pretty secondary with AM.
I appreciate the proirity check but still want to get the best sound
possible. We had to go AM (for reasons I won't discuss here) and if
the format was talk only i'd be alot more lax in my attitude. Tell me
if i'm being naive, but I want music on the station to be enjoyable to
listen to. We've got an unused Alesis 3630 lying around but I figured
an RNC would be a little less intrusive (for little $).

>The tighter the pattern, the more proximity effect you will get, and
the
>worse things will sound when someone gets off-mike.

Thanks for the reminder Scott. It may be safer for us to stay away
from hypercardioids for exactly those reasons. The on-air folks will
be trained but beginners nevertheless...

Dan
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:14:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I installed some Behringer B-1 large diaphragm condenser mics at an AM
cluster, costing $89 per mic. Check BSWUSA.COM, a trusted broadcast dealer.
Regular price is $99. They have periodic specials/discounts. Clients are
VERY happy with the B-1s.


--
Best Regards,

Mark A. Weiss, P.E.
www.mwcomms.com
-



"Daniel Fox" <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107099935.946216.54630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Helo everyone,
> I work for a non-profit organization that is in the process of starting
> up a low power AM radio station. We need to buy four mics for on-air
> hosts/DJ's. One mic will be the primary go to mic. The other 3 for
> guests and discussion shows. Our budget is $475 or under for all 4.
> (Yikes! - I know). That pretty much takes the RE20 and SM7 out of the
> equation. My current thought is: Studio Projects C1 (has high pass)
> as primary. 2 MXL V67G's as secondary and then either a MXL V57m or
> used SM57/SM58 with the left over $. Am I shooting myself in the foot
> getting large diaphragm condensers without lo cut (MXL V67). Maybe
> careful positioning of a pop filter will keep people from eating the
> mics and producing the proximity effect? There will be no processing
> on the mics other than compression/limiting on the whole mix before
> broadcast. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Fox
>
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:35:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel Fox wrote:

> hank alrich wrote:

> > You've no EQ in the rig?

> Its a low power AM station that will be run out of an afterschool
> program (some of the work will be done by teenagers.) As of right now
> we have an older Wheatstone board with no eq (!) going to a compressor
> (maybe an RNC) to the transmitting gear. As the station grows and we
> recieve more funding, the bells and whistles will fall into place.

At risk of being accused of heresy, take a gander at the Behringer
DEQ2496, which I think performs substantially above its price class, and
can be used for lots of things, including EQ <g>, but also multiband
dynamic control. It might be a handy device for your purpose.

--
ha
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:43:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel Fox wrote:
> the more I think about it. Is there such a thing as a
> shock mount for a 57?

AKG's H100 mount can be made to work but it's a tight fit.
AT also has several 'universal' style mounts that might
work.

rd
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 2:35:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

SSCONMAG <ssconmag1@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> If you go with a typical cardioid (58/57/421/whatever) and no tone controls
>on the mixer, then that prox hump HAS to be taken out in the chain
>SOMEWHERE... If all the mics match then you can just dial out the 180hz hump
>in the EQ/AGC chain at the final.

Well, the 421 has that nifty bass cut switch on it, if you get the L
version. On other mikes, you can use the Shure inline bass cut gadgets
or just build a passive filter to hang off the preamp.

The real problem with these mikes, though, is that they take a lot more
skill to work than an omni. Hmm... how about the RE-16? It's a lot cheaper
than the RE-20 and it is similar to work for the talent.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 2:52:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hank the Behringer DEQ2496 looks like a lot of stuff in one box.
>Transparency-wise dare I ask if it can hang with the RNC?

It can't, but who cares? It doesn't have to for that application.
The Wheatstone console should have an option that allows you to loop
through extra processing for just the announce mike channel, too.
You could put any EQ in there you like. Or even just a simple RC
network to cut the low end.

SOME of the Wheatstone modules do have low end EQ. It's on little
switches on the modules... you have to pop the announce mike module
out to adjust it. This keeps prying DJ fingers off of them.

>JV - you mentioned the ATM Pro 25. I like the fact that it is a
>hypercardioid dynamic, and will probably keep any room noise out - but
>(from advertising print) it looks like it might be a bassy/poppy mic on
>vocals. How does it stack up against a SM57 for example? The price
>sure is right ($60).

The tighter the pattern, the more proximity effect you will get, and the
worse things will sound when someone gets off-mike. The tight pattern
can be a great thing, but it can also be a problem for a novice announcer.
On the other hand, it might also teach him to do things right.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 3:59:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you want your announcers to sound like they do in real life go for the
RE16's Scott suggested. If you want the unnatural sound many stations have
get a parametric eq to add the "presence" peak, the proper frequency varies
with the nasal cavity resonaces of the announcer and is much easier to
provide with a parametric eq than a closet full of microphones.

Rgds:
Eric

"Daniel Fox" <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107151754.649909.75490@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> you guys are great - thanks for all this help. The radio thing is a
> whole new learning curve for me.
> A few folks have suggested that fidelity is pretty secondary with AM.
> I appreciate the proirity check but still want to get the best sound
> possible. We had to go AM (for reasons I won't discuss here) and if
> the format was talk only i'd be alot more lax in my attitude. Tell me
> if i'm being naive, but I want music on the station to be enjoyable to
> listen to. We've got an unused Alesis 3630 lying around but I figured
> an RNC would be a little less intrusive (for little $).
>
> >The tighter the pattern, the more proximity effect you will get, and
> the
> >worse things will sound when someone gets off-mike.
>
> Thanks for the reminder Scott. It may be safer for us to stay away
> from hypercardioids for exactly those reasons. The on-air folks will
> be trained but beginners nevertheless...
>
> Dan
>
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 4:55:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 1/30/05 7:00 PM, in article
1107129616.816664.174790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Daniel Fox"
<upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hank the Behringer DEQ2496 looks like a lot of stuff in one box.
> Transparency-wise dare I ask if it can hang with the RNC?

This is hi-intellegibility AM voice (and some music) right?
What's all this about 'transparency"...?
(don't get whacky.. Been there Done that for too many decades... Just trying
to make you think about what's important here!)

> JV - you mentioned the ATM Pro 25. I like the fact that it is a
> hypercardioid dynamic, and will probably keep any room noise out - but
> (from advertising print) it looks like it might be a bassy/poppy mic on
> vocals. How does it stack up against a SM57 for example? The price
> sure is right ($60).
>

Bass/poppy? They're BOTH going to be, shall we say 'excedingly warm', used
up close like I expect is the intent.
Pop? The 57?
The 57 Has no real pop-stoppability aside from what you add to it (that's
why there's a 58!) . The 25 is a different flavor, that's the point... you
might get a pair of each and play.
Again; you NEED serious foam heads on these.

What with Ty's suggestion and all the rest here you've got at least 4 real
choices (57/58/25/2020/etc) that ONLY can be differentiated by TRYING them
and seeing what YOU like. You couldn't really go wrong getting one of each
except that you probably couldn't then come up with a SINGLE overall eq
treatment that'd make em all snap-to and sound sharp on air.

Much as I'm a documented, dyed-in-the-wool much-disparaged legendary avoider
of things-Behringer, there ARE several reasonably priced eq/dynamic
multiband processors that would be a good addition here, though something
like the classic RANE AGC wouldn't be a bad thing to have in front of
that... Or you could go searching for one of them old '70's GATES
Solid-Statesman mono AGC units and pay the $100 or less that they're worth,
they work for this sort of thing.

jv
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 6:04:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hank the Behringer DEQ2496 looks like a lot of stuff in one box.
> Transparency-wise dare I ask if it can hang with the RNC?

It's surprisingly good, and more than good enough for AM radio
bandwidth. Its conversion isn't on par with truly fine convertors, but
overall it is entirely usable. If there is a downside it'll be that it
can do many things and some folks will get lost in the possibilities.
But the user interface is also pretty good and reasonably accessible
immediately.

> JV - you mentioned the ATM Pro 25. I like the fact that it is a
> hypercardioid dynamic, and will probably keep any room noise out - but
> (from advertising print) it looks like it might be a bassy/poppy mic on
> vocals. How does it stack up against a SM57 for example? The price
> sure is right ($60).

Hmmm... there is an A-T Pro 25, and an A-T ATM 35, which is the better
mic. But for some situations the PRO 25 is very handy. It has serious
proximity effect, and for instance, when mounted on the tailpiece of an
upright bass and combined with the usual piezo pickup, it gives the big
bottom that the piezo misses.

I'd think one would have to work it carefully for announcing, but with
care it could work for that, too IMO.

--
ha
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 6:04:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on wrote:

> I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
> transparent.

Really? Realizing that compression affects tone, you still find it
colored? I always here the effect of what it does, but I don't often
here _it_.

--
ha
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 11:27:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey, folks, can we get real for a moment here? This is a station that will
be run out of an after-school program, partly by teenagers. This means two
things:

1) Whatever they buy should be tough, because it's going to be used by
non-professionals without a lot of experience in what you can and can't do
to a microphone.

2) The more knobs there are to twiddle, the more people will twiddle with
them, and the more they'll screw things up. The original idea of going with
a board that has no built-in EQ is, under the circs, very sensible.

So what to do about microphones? I propose that they buy four Electro-Voice
PL11's or RE11's. Hypercardioid (untreated room), fairly effective built-in
pop filters, tough as nails and minimal proximity effect. They show up on
e-bay regularly. You might even find an RE16 there for less than 1/4 of your
budget. If you save enough on the mikes you might be able to afford a boom
arm or two.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 2:19:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:24 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>Its conversion isn't on par with truly fine convertors, but
>overall it is entirely usable.

Is it possible to use outboard converters with the Behringer?

Al
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 2:20:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:27 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>play_on wrote:
>
>> I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
>> transparent.
>
>Really? Realizing that compression affects tone, you still find it
>colored? I always here the effect of what it does, but I don't often
>here _it_.

Yeah the RNC is pretty much "uncolored" but what I notice is that it
rolls off some high end. It's slight but I can hear it.

Al
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 4:45:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:27 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
>wrote:
>
>>play_on wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
>>> transparent.
>>
>>Really? Realizing that compression affects tone, you still find it
>>colored? I always here the effect of what it does, but I don't often
>>here _it_.
>
>Yeah the RNC is pretty much "uncolored" but what I notice is that it
>rolls off some high end. It's slight but I can hear it.
>
>Al

Maybe you had the attack way up? With 6dB of compression, the RNC is
flat out to over 100kHz, and only around 3dB down at 200kHz, IIRC.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 5:34:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:24 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
>wrote:
>
>>Its conversion isn't on par with truly fine convertors, but
>>overall it is entirely usable.
>
>Is it possible to use outboard converters with the Behringer?

Yes, but the whole thing about the Behringer is that it does a lot of
stuff and it's cheap. If all you want is a simple low end cut and a
little presence peak, the Behringer with a set of outboard converters is
sort of silly.

As it is, you could probably pick up a used Orban or Ashly parametric
under a hundred bucks.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 5:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:24 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Its conversion isn't on par with truly fine convertors, but
>>> overall it is entirely usable.
>>
>> Is it possible to use outboard converters with the Behringer?
>
>
> Yes, but the whole thing about the Behringer is that it does a lot of
> stuff and it's cheap. If all you want is a simple low end cut and a
> little presence peak, the Behringer with a set of outboard converters is
> sort of silly.
>
> As it is, you could probably pick up a used Orban or Ashly parametric
> under a hundred bucks.

Given the intended use, I think the panel lockout on the Behringer might be a highly desirable feature.
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 5:35:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:27 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
>wrote:
>>play_on wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
>>> transparent.
>>
>>Really? Realizing that compression affects tone, you still find it
>>colored? I always here the effect of what it does, but I don't often
>>here _it_.
>
>Yeah the RNC is pretty much "uncolored" but what I notice is that it
>rolls off some high end. It's slight but I can hear it.

That's what happens when you squash the front part of transients. Setting
the attack slower will reduce some of that, but the top end rolloff is
just one of the things you'll get with fast compression.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 7:39:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 31 Jan 2005 14:35:50 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:04:27 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
>>wrote:
>>>play_on wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
>>>> transparent.
>>>
>>>Really? Realizing that compression affects tone, you still find it
>>>colored? I always here the effect of what it does, but I don't often
>>>here _it_.
>>
>>Yeah the RNC is pretty much "uncolored" but what I notice is that it
>>rolls off some high end. It's slight but I can hear it.
>
>That's what happens when you squash the front part of transients. Setting
>the attack slower will reduce some of that, but the top end rolloff is
>just one of the things you'll get with fast compression.
>--scott

Yep the attack setting was probably the deal.

Al
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 10:25:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I wouldn't worry overmuch about the lack of EQ - at WSM-AM, the on-air desk
has been used to broadcast many, many live performances in addition to the
announcers. And there is no EQ on their board either (I believe that it's
also a Wheatstone).

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 11:01:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

the Behringer piece looks quite interesting and the panel lockout
feature is stellar. You'd be surprised at the havoc a 16 year old can
cause when they "think" they know what they're doing. But, i'm afraid
at $300 even the Behringer isn't in our budget right now. As far as
mics, we've decided to go with the AT2020's (with windscreens). I've
been very happy with AT condensers, even the cheapo ones, and the price
is right. While 4 different mics might be more fun it would be harder
to keep things consistent.
Thanks for all the great input.
If anyone is in East Boston after our April launch you'll hear the
results at 1700AM
Now if could just find an affordable standalone CD recorder...
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 11:53:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on wrote:

> (hank alrich) wrote:

> >play_on wrote:

> >> I don't know about the Behringer DEQ but I don't find the RNC all that
> >> transparent.

> >Really? Realizing that compression affects tone, you still find it
> >colored? I always here the effect of what it does, but I don't often
> >here _it_.

> Yeah the RNC is pretty much "uncolored" but what I notice is that it
> rolls off some high end. It's slight but I can hear it.

You have an interface problem if that roll-off is not a result of
compression. The RNC is flat to about 100 KHz. I don't think your
monitors go there. <g>

--
ha
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 11:53:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt wrote:

> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > play_on wrote:

> >> (hank alrich) wrote:

> >>> Its conversion isn't on par with truly fine convertors, but
> >>> overall it is entirely usable.

> >> Is it possible to use outboard converters with the Behringer?

> > Yes, but the whole thing about the Behringer is that it does a lot of
> > stuff and it's cheap. If all you want is a simple low end cut and a
> > little presence peak, the Behringer with a set of outboard converters is
> > sort of silly.

> > As it is, you could probably pick up a used Orban or Ashly parametric
> > under a hundred bucks.

> Given the intended use, I think the panel lockout on the Behringer might
> be a highly desirable feature.

And if needing a variety of setups, the presets could come in handy.
OTOH Paul Stamler's comments might be apt.

In any case, while it ain't the only EQ out there, I don't know of
anything that costs anywhere near that little that will touch it. It
whups stuff that costs multiples more.

--
ha
February 1, 2005 1:35:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

we ran 57s our station for ten years till we changed to re20s. ( i
still think the 57 sounded better on our case).

they tend to pop a bit, so use a good pop stopper.

best
at

"Daniel Fox" <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107119554.502485.152440@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Our room will be minimally treated, so we're best off sticking with
> cardioids. Stands/booms are not included in the budget. For now
there
> will be no eq or processing of the vocals in the chain, so the sound
> has to be workable right off the bat. The AT2020 does look
> interesting, but it too has no lo cut... How is the proximity
effect
> with that mic Ty? SM57's with windscreens (for the secondary mics)
are
> sounding better the more I think about it. Is there such a thing as
a
> shock mount for a 57? Any thoughts on the C1 ($200) or MXL V67
($100)
> for this purpose?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> Matt wrote:
> > >
> > > Right. The AT2020. $99. See an mp4 video clip review on my
website.
> > It in my
> > > article review archive in a folder called Quickies.
> > I think Ty likes this mic....
>
February 1, 2005 2:02:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>>>> Its conversion isn't on par with truly fine convertors,
>> Is it possible to use outboard converters with the Behringer?
>> rolloff on the xtreme hi end of the RNC...

(SNIP)

> Given the intended use, I think the panel lockout on the Behringer might be a
> highly desirable feature.


GOOD GRIEF FOLKS...
We're talking AM RADIO here,
If 100-10khz gets thru at the end with a tailwind you're winning. The
spectral/dynamics wrangling ability trumps ANYTHING else here. That'd still
win even if it had 12bit 'vertors running at 22kHz sampling...

oy

And yeah lock-out on futzing with the chain feeding the xmitter is pretty
"desireable" (read MANDATORY).

Where's Mr Orban when ya need 'im...

I'd just have fun...
go crazy, get a 57, an AT 25, the AT 2020 and one EV 635.
You can do anything with that.


jv
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 1:24:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1107230506.010552.310790@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:
>the Behringer piece looks quite interesting and the panel lockout
>feature is stellar. You'd be surprised at the havoc a 16 year old can
>cause when they "think" they know what they're doing. But, i'm afraid
>at $300 even the Behringer isn't in our budget right now.

Tell you what. I have an Altec cut-only graphic unit with a coverplate
to lock the settings down. If you're a nonprofit organization and will
give me a letter that I can send to the IRS, I'll ship it off to you.
As I recall it actually sounded pretty good; it has real inductors in
the networks but it uses some goofy quad op-amps for make-up gain that
aren't easy to upgrade.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 12:53:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey Scott,
Not sure if you got my email. Google groups seems a bit screwy - all
emails have a ... in them. I'm not sure if "reply to author" functions
correctly. Anyway, contact me offline at upryz1@gmail.com regarding
your generous offer.
Thanks,

Dan
!