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Please explain direct box

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February 3, 2005 3:11:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

My bass guitar sounds like hell on tape if i go Bass to amp, amp direct to
preamp to audio card. Its like the pickups clack. Someone suggested a direct
box, what does this provide that direct from bass or bass amp does not? I
understand that there is a noticeable difference.

Thanks

More about : explain direct box

Anonymous
February 3, 2005 3:11:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Snowdog wrote:
> Thanks Neil...if you go amp to soundcard direct out the back using the amps'
> direct out, how do you control the input gain to the sound card....from the
> amplifier its self? Thanks


Some direct boxes also have attenuator switches that help with this.
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 9:41:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Snowdog <drisp@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The bass guitar is a Music man Stingray 4 string

Okay

> The amp is a cheap Peavy Mark 3 XP series

Less okay <g> Are you tapping a direct out from it or feeding from a
power amplifier output such as feeds the speaker?

> The preamp is a ART TPS

Hmmmm. As Neil said, you might be clipping the hell out of the input to
that thing. It doesn't have a hell of a lot of headroom. Unless you can
pad the signal before it hits the preamp you might need to turn the amp
down, and that could negatively impact your tone, too.

> The sound card is a ST Audio ADC/DAC 2000 into Audition

> I get a good sound running a AT 4040 condenser, but i would like to learn to
> go direct. I think it will give a more punchy sound that i've heard others
> do.

One thing to understand is that a DI often hears exactly what your hands
are doing on the fretboard. Much of that doesn't make it through the
speaker portion of your amp. An amp can give you back better than you
put into it; a DI will generally give you back more than you want to
hear. <g> But that can be a great motivator for technique improvement.

> Can I go bass to preamp into sound card and bypass the amplifier completely?

Yes, and I'd think it a good idea to try that and report back.

> Monitor with the soundcard controls?

You'd have to if the amp is out of the picture. Others will have to help
you there, as I knoweth not from the Shinola about Wintel computers and
Audition.

> I wish i know more about this.

You will. <g>

--
ha
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Anonymous
February 3, 2005 9:41:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Snowdog wrote:

> if you go amp to soundcard direct out the back using the amps'
> direct out, how do you control the input gain to the sound card....from the
> amplifier its self?

Yes, unless there is a separate level control for the direct output of
the amplifier.

--
ha
February 3, 2005 9:41:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ok.thanks...The amp does have a direct out....in addition to the output to
the speaker cab, which is a 4x10. Ive been using the direct out jack. I
think i will go bass.>to soundcard and also try bass to preamp to sound
card, leave the amplifier out of the equation. Is this how you do it Hank?

Thanks so much for your help.....He (the bass player) really likes the Chuck
Rainy and Tony Levin sound. I know ive not been overloading the pre...im
really cautious about this.


Doug in Tennessee






"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1grdnx2.jpictg1ehhmfwN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Snowdog <drisp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The bass guitar is a Music man Stingray 4 string
>
> Okay
>
> > The amp is a cheap Peavy Mark 3 XP series
>
> Less okay <g> Are you tapping a direct out from it or feeding from a
> power amplifier output such as feeds the speaker?
>
> > The preamp is a ART TPS
>
> Hmmmm. As Neil said, you might be clipping the hell out of the input to
> that thing. It doesn't have a hell of a lot of headroom. Unless you can
> pad the signal before it hits the preamp you might need to turn the amp
> down, and that could negatively impact your tone, too.
>
> > The sound card is a ST Audio ADC/DAC 2000 into Audition
>
> > I get a good sound running a AT 4040 condenser, but i would like to
learn to
> > go direct. I think it will give a more punchy sound that i've heard
others
> > do.
>
> One thing to understand is that a DI often hears exactly what your hands
> are doing on the fretboard. Much of that doesn't make it through the
> speaker portion of your amp. An amp can give you back better than you
> put into it; a DI will generally give you back more than you want to
> hear. <g> But that can be a great motivator for technique improvement.
>
> > Can I go bass to preamp into sound card and bypass the amplifier
completely?
>
> Yes, and I'd think it a good idea to try that and report back.
>
> > Monitor with the soundcard controls?
>
> You'd have to if the amp is out of the picture. Others will have to help
> you there, as I knoweth not from the Shinola about Wintel computers and
> Audition.
>
> > I wish i know more about this.
>
> You will. <g>
>
> --
> ha
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 12:26:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Snowdog <drisp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>My bass guitar sounds like hell on tape if i go Bass to amp, amp direct to
>preamp to audio card. Its like the pickups clack. Someone suggested a direct
>box, what does this provide that direct from bass or bass amp does not? I
>understand that there is a noticeable difference.

It probably doesn't do anything that the XLR on your amp doesn't already
do. It is an impedance converter that allows you to plug the amp into a
low-Z input directly without an amp. And it will sound pretty much the
same way.

If you want it to sound like the amp does, mike the amp.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 1:57:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Snowdog wrote:
> Ok.thanks...The amp does have a direct out....in addition to the
output to
> the speaker cab, which is a 4x10. Ive been using the direct out jack.
I
> think i will go bass.>to soundcard and also try bass to preamp to
sound
> card, leave the amplifier out of the equation. Is this how you do it
Hank?
>
> Thanks so much for your help.....He (the bass player) really likes
the Chuck
> Rainy and Tony Levin sound. I know ive not been overloading the
pre...im
> really cautious about this.
>
>
> Doug in Tennessee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
> news:1grdnx2.jpictg1ehhmfwN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> > Snowdog <drisp@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The bass guitar is a Music man Stingray 4 string
> >
> > Okay
> >
> > > The amp is a cheap Peavy Mark 3 XP series
> >
> > Less okay <g> Are you tapping a direct out from it or feeding from
a
> > power amplifier output such as feeds the speaker?
> >
> > > The preamp is a ART TPS
> >
> > Hmmmm. As Neil said, you might be clipping the hell out of the
input to
> > that thing. It doesn't have a hell of a lot of headroom. Unless you
can
> > pad the signal before it hits the preamp you might need to turn the
amp
> > down, and that could negatively impact your tone, too.
> >
> > > The sound card is a ST Audio ADC/DAC 2000 into Audition
> >
> > > I get a good sound running a AT 4040 condenser, but i would like
to
> learn to
> > > go direct. I think it will give a more punchy sound that i've
heard
> others
> > > do.
> >
> > One thing to understand is that a DI often hears exactly what your
hands
> > are doing on the fretboard. Much of that doesn't make it through
the
> > speaker portion of your amp. An amp can give you back better than
you
> > put into it; a DI will generally give you back more than you want
to
> > hear. <g> But that can be a great motivator for technique
improvement.
> >
> > > Can I go bass to preamp into sound card and bypass the amplifier
> completely?
> >
> > Yes, and I'd think it a good idea to try that and report back.
> >
> > > Monitor with the soundcard controls?
> >
> > You'd have to if the amp is out of the picture. Others will have to
help
> > you there, as I knoweth not from the Shinola about Wintel computers
and
> > Audition.
> >
> > > I wish i know more about this.
> >
> > You will. <g>
> >
> > --
> > ha

Yea. Go into the preamp and then to the sound card. You might try
splitting the signal and have one go from preamp to sound card and
another to bass amp with microphone. There's no way around getting a
somewhat different sound than what you would hear through the amp.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 6:15:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Snowdog wrote:

> The amp does have a direct out....in addition to the output to
> the speaker cab, which is a 4x10. Ive been using the direct out jack. I
> think i will go bass.>to soundcard

Allow me to predict that won't sound very nice; the match is all wrong,
with the input impedance of the soundcard being much lower than the
output of your bass wants to see. That's one of the things about most
DI's: they have relatively high input impedances.

> and also try bass to preamp to sound
> card, leave the amplifier out of the equation.

That will most probably sound much better than the approach above.

> Is this how you do it Hank?

I have no standard way to go about it. It depends on the situation,
player, all that's involved in getting a track. Sometimes if DI'ing I'll
tap the power amp output, other times the amp's DI output, other times
the output of the instrument itself. Many times whatever DI singal is
taken there's a mic along for the ride, too.

--
ha
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 3:24:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Snowdog" <drisp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CikMd.30525$BQ2.19532@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
..He (the bass player) really likes the Chuck
> Rainy and Tony Levin sound.

Then he's probably got some work to do and some serious gear to buy. Rainey
has the touch of a god in his fingers, and Levin has spent his life learning
how to make cool sounds with gear that I doubt you're bassist already owns.

Not to say you can't improve on the sound you're getting, but you can't get
what those two guys get on the cheap - and without a serious amount of
talent you can't get what they get, period.

my .02

dik
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 4:14:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:15:33 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>> The amp does have a direct out....in addition to the output to
>> the speaker cab, which is a 4x10. Ive been using the direct out jack. I
>> think i will go bass.>to soundcard
>
>Allow me to predict that won't sound very nice; the match is all wrong,
>with the input impedance of the soundcard being much lower than the
>output of your bass wants to see. That's one of the things about most
>DI's: they have relatively high input impedances.


If the Direct Out is a line feed, it should go straight to the
soundcard OK. Some bass amps have a Direct Out on an XLR socket,
offering a mic level feed (just like a "DI Box" would). But not, I
think, yours.


The problem is more likely to be overload at the soundcard input.
You need control of what level this input sees. If this can't be
conveniently done at the amp, put a mixer into the system. It'll be
useful for other things too.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
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