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Piano sounds too "modern"! Need some suggestions please!

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February 3, 2005 11:08:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Good evening / morning ....

I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some older
EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's like
1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano, if
that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a Yamaha
P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good sounding
grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go for is
that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that era as
well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the
P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to
tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my
liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The P60
sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone
here please suggest something ?

Thanks so much for your help :) 

Daniel
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 12:35:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <0_kMd.259270$8l.88483@pd7tw1no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some older
>EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's like
>1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
>even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano, if
>that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a Yamaha
>P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good sounding
>grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go for is
>that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that era as
>well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the
>P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to
>tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my
>liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The P60
>sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone
>here please suggest something ?

How about a used Bechstein upright? They don't sell for all that much, and
they sound pretty decent.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 1:30:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

While you are recording the keyboard direct, at the same time try
micing the piano as it plays back thru your monitors. Adding some
room sound to the dry signal might help.

Al

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 08:08:28 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Good evening / morning ....
>
>I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some older
>EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's like
>1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
>even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano, if
>that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a Yamaha
>P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good sounding
>grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go for is
>that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that era as
>well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the
>P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to
>tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my
>liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The P60
>sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone
>here please suggest something ?
>
>Thanks so much for your help :) 
>
>Daniel
>
Related resources
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 2:47:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:08:28 +0100, Daniel wrote:

> Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the P60 are really great
> (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to tape). However, the
> sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my liking. It's too
> "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The P60 sounds too
> "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone here
> please suggest something ?

A digital piano has limitations, there is no resonance between different
strings yet, etc.. If you want a less "sterile" sound with "character" an
acoustical piano is better.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 3:30:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 08:08:28 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Good evening / morning ....
>
>I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some older
>EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's like
>1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
>even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano, if
>that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a Yamaha
>P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good sounding
>grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go for is
>that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that era as
>well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the
>P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to
>tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my
>liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The P60
>sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone
>here please suggest something ?
>
>Thanks so much for your help :) 
>
>Daniel
>


Why are so many words in inverted commas? They seem to have their
standard meaning and usage. You want a replica. Fine. Why
"replica"?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 5:24:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:
> Good evening / morning ....
>
> I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some older
> EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's like
> 1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
> even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano, if
> that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a Yamaha
> P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good sounding
> grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go for is
> that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that era as
> well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the
> P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to
> tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my
> liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The P60
> sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone
> here please suggest something ?
>
> Thanks so much for your help :) 
>
> Daniel
>
>

You have limited tracks, so this might be difficult, but
anyway...

After you record the digital piano direct into your tape
machine, send the recorded signal out into a room via an
amplifier and speaker. Place a mic on the other side of
the room and record the ambient piano sound on another
track. Then mix a little of that in with the direct
digital piano sound.

Again, considering your lack of tracks, try it this way:
Mix together the two signals (direct & ambient) live
while recording. You'll have to experiment with the
blend but that shouldn't be to big of a deal.

The lack of subtle room sounds is part of what you're
missing when you hear the sterile sound of a digital
piano. Also keep in mind that music recorded in the 50's
and 60's typically had a lot of room sound because of
mic bleed due to everyone playing together at the same
time with minimal mics. A digital piano is way more
detailed and "precise" than the sound you hear on your
favorite vintage recordings.

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ

jn145_deletethisfirst_@verizon.net

visit the new website: http://www.retromedia.net
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 5:25:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John Noll wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
> > Good evening / morning ....
> >
> > I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup,
some older
> > EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright
that's like
> > 1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China"
craftsmanship and
> > even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital
piano, if
> > that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a
Yamaha
> > P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good
sounding
> > grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go
for is
> > that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that
era as
> > well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action")
of the
> > P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded
directly to
> > tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor
for my
> > liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm
after. The P60
> > sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can
anyone
> > here please suggest something ?
> >
>
>
> After you record the digital piano direct into your tape
> machine, send the recorded signal out into a room via an
> amplifier and speaker. Place a mic on the other side of
> the room and record the ambient piano sound on another
> track. Then mix a little of that in with the direct
> digital piano sound.
>

I'll second John's suggestion, with this one additional idea: do this
"reamping" in the room where your Steigerman upright piano is. Hold the
sustain pedal on the Steigerman down (with a brick, or the base of a
mic stand). Don't mic the upright, just let it resonate in the room
that you're micing.
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 7:58:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:30:15 +0000, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Why are so many words in inverted commas? They seem to have their
>standard meaning and usage. You want a replica. Fine. Why
>"replica"?

He wants a REAL replica, what he has now is only a caricature of a
replica. :) 

It reminds me of my Nanopiano, it sounded really good with all the
background noise at Mars.

> CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
>"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
February 5, 2005 1:21:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thank you VERY much to all who replied. I truly appreciate your comments and
info! Thank you for your time.

~Daniel
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 10:49:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 08:08:28 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Good evening / morning ....
>
>I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some older
>EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's like
>1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
>even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano, if
>that's saying much .

If you can mic the Steigerman, try weaving ribbons of paper between
the strings ( 1" wide strips as long as possible, fantastic if you can
get the old tractor feed paper that used to be used with dot matrix
printers). Make sure they're not pulled too tight, or they'll dampen
the strings. Just tight enough that they rattle. Voila! Ragtime bar
piano sound.

jtougas

listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go

e.e. cummings
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 3:57:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 3 Feb 2005 09:35:38 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>How about a used Bechstein upright? They don't sell for all that much, and
>they sound pretty decent.

But tend to have a noisy action. (Especially the more affordable
models.) I love mine to death, but it's a pig to record.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 7:26:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you can make someone know you know how to play piano then it really makes
no difference about the piano, just the player. A point in fact was my
father-in-law's local reverend/friend, who said a few words at Arthur's
funeral a few weeks ago, but really set the mood at the wake playing on the
old, out of tune spinet, and people loved it. As a musician and a
recordist, I didn't like it all that much, but he, as a musician, felt it
appropriate, and that set the tone for the wake. It made no difference that
the piano didn't play well and sounded awfully out of tune. It only made a
difference that he sat down at the piano, and upon finding the above facts
to be true, still found it in his heart to play for two hours thus allowing
the music to alleviate the sorrow. Now that's a true musician.

The point being, if you didn't garner it from the above, is that one can use
the tools available and still accomplish the unexpected.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0_kMd.259270$8l.88483@pd7tw1no...
> Good evening / morning ....
>
> I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some
older
> EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's
like
> 1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
> even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano,
if
> that's saying much .... Anyway, after much research, I opted for a Yamaha
> P60 digital piano. I wanted an inexpensive "replica" of a good sounding
> grand to use as a backing track for my vocal. The sound I always go for is
> that "vintage" flavor of the 50's or 60's and my music is from that era as
> well. Many "covers" I do. Anyway, the piano samples (and "action") of the
> P60 are really great (especially on good "cans" or recorded directly to
> tape). However, the sounds I'm getting has too "modern" a flavor for my
> liking. It's too "bright" and hasn't the "character" that I'm after. The
P60
> sounds too "sterile". I tried some EQ but still it's no good. Can anyone
> here please suggest something ?
>
> Thanks so much for your help :) 
>
> Daniel
>
>
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 7:28:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ah, a recording trick you learned as a kid with playing cards clothespinned
to your bike! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"jtougas" <jatougasNOSPAM@charter.net> wrote in message
news:86qa019fabut5srej5sn8qk0j4n9q1o7th@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 08:08:28 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Good evening / morning ....
> >
> >I'm a home recordist with an all analog 4 track open reel setup, some
older
> >EV mics etc ... I also have a pretty shitty "Steigerman" upright that's
like
> >1 years old and you could see the cheap "Made in China" craftsmanship and
> >even worse sound. At least it sounds more "natural" then a digital piano,
if
> >that's saying much .
>
> If you can mic the Steigerman, try weaving ribbons of paper between
> the strings ( 1" wide strips as long as possible, fantastic if you can
> get the old tractor feed paper that used to be used with dot matrix
> printers). Make sure they're not pulled too tight, or they'll dampen
> the strings. Just tight enough that they rattle. Voila! Ragtime bar
> piano sound.
>
> jtougas
>
> listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
> let's go
>
> e.e. cummings
!