Attention: Scott Dorsey (RE: Crown PZM)

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello Scott,

I've been doing quite a bit of research about PZM's and specifically the
Crown PZM-30D, which is currently still available new from places like Full
Compass, SweetWater and others. I've seen many of your PZM related posts in
the Google archives and thought I'd ask you here. From what I understand,
I'd need to seperately purchase an XLR cable and have phantom power. Problem
is that my mixer doesn't have phantom. Is there any simple solution that you
may recommend, so that I could power the PZM ? Thanks in advance.

~Daniel

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> I bet Audio-Technica still makes theirs too.

They, do, a one boanger and a four banger.

--
ha

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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cu5bki$id8$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <qNoNd.286927$8l.227671@pd7tw1no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>I've been doing quite a bit of research about PZM's and specifically the
>>Crown PZM-30D, which is currently still available new from places like
>>Full
>>Compass, SweetWater and others. I've seen many of your PZM related posts
>>in
>>the Google archives and thought I'd ask you here. From what I understand,
>>I'd need to seperately purchase an XLR cable and have phantom power.
>>Problem
>>is that my mixer doesn't have phantom. Is there any simple solution that
>>you
>>may recommend, so that I could power the PZM ? Thanks in advance.
>
> There are lots of outboard phantom supplies out there. AKG makes one.
> Stewart used to make a cheapie. I bet Audio-Technica still makes theirs
> too.
>
> However, I would be a little suspicious of your console, if it is old
> enough
> or cheap enough not to have phantom power. What is it?
> --scott

Alright, thank you Scott. I've found some small, and inexpensive phantom
power units so that should be great! The board I have is an older
TEAC/TASCAM with XLRs but lacks phantom. Sounds great though.

Say, what would you recommend for taping the PZM to the piano, wall or
whatever to hold it in place securely and also to not damage the surface
area of the unit itself and the surface it is taped to ?

Thanks very much,

~Daniel

> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cual9p$gug$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <kv1Od.325445$6l.252870@pd7tw2no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>Alright, thank you Scott. I've found some small, and inexpensive phantom
>>power units so that should be great! The board I have is an older
>>TEAC/TASCAM with XLRs but lacks phantom. Sounds great though.
>
> The output phantom is the solution for you, then. The alternative is
> to add phantom to the console if you like it that much.
>
>>Say, what would you recommend for taping the PZM to the piano, wall or
>>whatever to hold it in place securely and also to not damage the surface
>>area of the unit itself and the surface it is taped to ?
>
> Gaffer tape. NOT duct tape, but gaffer tape. Available from your local
> theatrical supply.
>
> But, you probably should just mount the thing on a big piece of plexiglass
> and use that as your surface.
> --scott

How big of a plexiglass would you recommend ? I assume then that the surface
area of the plexiglass becomes the transducer or one big mic and the capsule
(top) of the PZM (which is now attached center of the plexiglass) should be
facing the instrument or placed accordingly. Do you have any advice re this
?

Thanks very much Scott.

Daniel

>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ksbOd.331894$6l.244677@pd7tw2no> NotReal@yahoo.com writes:

> How big of a plexiglass would you recommend ? I assume then that the surface
> area of the plexiglass becomes the transducer or one big mic

The boundary (the piece of Plexiglas) becomes part of the microphone.
That's the way PZMs work. We used to use a pair of four foot on a side
squares with a PZM hung above to pick up a chorus.

> and the capsule
> (top) of the PZM (which is now attached center of the plexiglass)should be
> facing the instrument or placed accordingly.

It's pretty much half-omindirectional so it doesn't really matter.
Most people try to put the boundary perpendicular to the sound source.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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"Uncle Russ" <uncruss@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:ia2dnbfGdttU6JTfRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
> Four by four feet is fairly ideal but unwieldy. Two by two feet is
> practical and is what most guys use. The pickup of one mic on one side
> of the square is hemispherical so as long as you are reasonably on
> axis you'll be fine.
>
> One mic on each side of a plate creates a one point stereo mic but,
> unless you want strong right and left imaging with a weaker center,
> it's generally better to use two plates in a V, with the front edges
> taped together at an angle of between 30 and 70 degrees. The point of
> the V faces center.
>
> The nature of the PZMs' frequency response may benefit from a little
> EQ. If you feel it necessary, here is a starting point:

But my question is whether it is really worth all the trouble?
PZMs are great for situations where you are up against a boundary,
but to make big artificial baffles to use out in the clear (and even
OUTDOORS!) just seems remarkably silly.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1107907475k@trad...
>
> In article <ksbOd.331894$6l.244677@pd7tw2no> NotReal@yahoo.com writes:
>
>> How big of a plexiglass would you recommend ? I assume then that the
>> surface
>> area of the plexiglass becomes the transducer or one big mic
>
> The boundary (the piece of Plexiglas) becomes part of the microphone.
> That's the way PZMs work. We used to use a pair of four foot on a side
> squares with a PZM hung above to pick up a chorus.
>
>> and the capsule
>> (top) of the PZM (which is now attached center of the plexiglass)should
>> be
>> facing the instrument or placed accordingly.
>
> It's pretty much half-omindirectional so it doesn't really matter.
> Most people try to put the boundary perpendicular to the sound source.

Ok, thanks Mike.

Daniel

>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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In article <SCnOd.340305$6l.110441@pd7tw2no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>A few additional questions re Gaffer's tape if you don't mind ? I've found
>some floating around on eBay and they're in 1/2", 1" and 2" versions. Which
>one would be best to get ? Also, is there a rule as to HOW to tape a PZM ?

Most folks just stock the 2", and if you use the 2" you can always tear it
down into smaller strips if you need them. I think I have 3/8" and 2"
stuff around here.

There are a couple different types, too. Most of it is fairly strong
stuff, but you can get Anchor #22 which has a considerably less strong
adhesive, for even the most delicate surfaces.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1107954345k@trad...
>
> In article <SCnOd.340305$6l.110441@pd7tw2no> NotReal@yahoo.com writes:
>
>> A few additional questions re Gaffer's tape if you don't mind ? I've
>> found
>> some floating around on eBay and they're in 1/2", 1" and 2" versions.
>> Which
>> one would be best to get ? Also, is there a rule as to HOW to tape a PZM
>> ?
>
> 1/2" gaffer's tape? Really? I've never seen it in anything narrower
> than 2" width.
>
> I would get 2". It will be fine for taping the PZM and other useful
> things. You can really use anything that sticks, as long as you remove
> it promptly so the goo doesn't harden.

Mike, is it actually called "Gaffers Tape" on the packaging or is it just a
term that is used by the A/V industry people ? Reason I ask is that I called
a store near me that sells all sorts of home supplies and such and they said
that they believe "Electrical tape" is the same as Gaffers tape. Is this
correct ? How can I be sure I'm getting "Gaffers tape" ?

Thanks!

Daniel

>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <aTxOd.343684$8l.284080@pd7tw1no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>Mike, is it actually called "Gaffers Tape" on the packaging or is it just a
>term that is used by the A/V industry people ? Reason I ask is that I called
>a store near me that sells all sorts of home supplies and such and they said
>that they believe "Electrical tape" is the same as Gaffers tape. Is this
>correct ? How can I be sure I'm getting "Gaffers tape" ?

No. Electrical tape and duct tape ruin cables. Gaffers tape does not leave
nasty goo behind. Buy from a legitimate theatrical supply or some place like
Markertek.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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"Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:y1yOd.345049$6l.224119@pd7tw2no...
>
> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:cuea01$s79$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> In article <aTxOd.343684$8l.284080@pd7tw1no>, Daniel <NotReal@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike, is it actually called "Gaffers Tape" on the packaging or is it just
>>>a
>>>term that is used by the A/V industry people ? Reason I ask is that I
>>>called
>>>a store near me that sells all sorts of home supplies and such and they
>>>said
>>>that they believe "Electrical tape" is the same as Gaffers tape. Is this
>>>correct ? How can I be sure I'm getting "Gaffers tape" ?
>>
>> No. Electrical tape and duct tape ruin cables. Gaffers tape does not
>> leave
>> nasty goo behind. Buy from a legitimate theatrical supply or some place
>> like
>> Markertek.
>> --scott
>
> Would this be ok Scott: http://tinyurl.com/4wv64

or this ? http://tinyurl.com/64sof


>
> ~Daniel
>
>
>> --
>> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:110loapffe63t5e@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>>> No. Electrical tape and duct tape ruin cables. Gaffers tape does not
>>>> leave
>>>> nasty goo behind. Buy from a legitimate theatrical supply or some
>>>> place like
>>>> Markertek.
>>>> --scott
>>>
>>> Would this be ok Scott: http://tinyurl.com/4wv64
>>
>> or this ? http://tinyurl.com/64sof
>>
>
> Hard to tell exactly from the photo, but looks pretty convincing.
> Likely worth a shot unless you can find a local source at a decent
> price.

Richard,

How do I tell the difference and KNOW for sure I'm getting a GAFFER ?

Thanks!

Daniel

>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:
>

> How do I tell the difference and KNOW for sure I'm getting a GAFFER ?

> How can I be sure I'm getting "Gaffers tape" ?

> Does it say "Gaffers Tape" on the packaging or is this just a term used by
people ? How can one distinguish ?

ShurTape #PC-625 or PC-628 (better). Wherever fine
theatrical or photographic supplies are sold. Or just go to
http://www.markertek.com and order it. The stuff you found
on eBay from TLS is the right stuff, and a good buy. It's
$17.00 a roll from Pacific Radio in Hollywood in
onesy-twosies.

Check out all of ShurTape's products at their Website
http://www.shurtape.com



TM

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"Chris Hornbeck" <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote in message
news:bvrl01tgt4msn6o9dcvitcdivq6a1l9rs9@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:07:37 GMT, "Daniel" <NotReal@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>How do I tell the difference and KNOW for sure I'm getting a GAFFER ?
>
> IME, if you leave a trail of Rolling Rock's, a real gaffer
> will find you. So will the TD, and rest of the crew. Save a
> couple for me,

I guess this takes more of an "insider" to understand 'cause I have no clue
what you're referring to ..

~Daniel

>
> Chris Hornbeck

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Daniel" wrote ...
>
> "Chris Hornbeck" wrote ...
>> "Daniel" wrote:
>>
>>>How do I tell the difference and KNOW for sure I'm getting
>>>a GAFFER ?
>>
>> IME, if you leave a trail of Rolling Rock's, a real gaffer
>> will find you. So will the TD, and rest of the crew. Save a
>> couple for me,
>
> I guess this takes more of an "insider" to understand 'cause I
> have no clue what you're referring to ..

According to http://www.filmsite.org/filmterms10.html a gaffer is...
"the chief or head electrician or supervisory lighting technician
in the film/photography crew, responsible for the design and
execution of a production's lighting on the set; the gaffer's right-
hand assistant is known as the best boy;
"gaffer tape refers to multi-purpose, sticky and wide black cloth
tape, used to mark studio floors, to hold things together, etc."

The two primary differences between real gaffer's tape and the
more common "duct tape" is that gaffer's tape has a nice non-
reflective cloth backing, and it has a different kind of adhesive
which sticks well, but removes without leaving residue. Gaffers
tape is also available in over a dozen colors.

I don't drink, but I believe that "Rolling Rock" is a brand of beer
and Mr. Hornbeck is suggesting that gaffers (and apparently other
crew members) can be "bribed" with things like free alcholic
beverages. He is likely correct :-) http://www.rollingrock.com/

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <t_BOd.348688$Xk.43073@pd7tw3no> NotReal@yahoo.com writes:

> How do I tell the difference and KNOW for sure I'm getting a GAFFER ?

Buy it from a place that sells theatrical supplies and tell them that
you want gaffer tape and not duct tape. (some of the right kind of
stores sell both since gaffer tape is considerably more expensive).

The other way is to buy from a dealer that's trustworthy (like
Markertek) and buy the tape that costs $8-12 a roll rather than the
tape that costs $2/roll at Home Depot.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thank you all again very, very much for supplying much info on this topic.

~Daniel