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Lautsprecheraufbau (loudspeaker composition)

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Anonymous
February 6, 2005 12:33:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm considering writing a concert piece for loudspeakers. The twist
is I will be using the actual speakers as instruments, as devices for
making new sounds, not simply replaying pre recorded ones. So far I
have only come up with three 'notes' a loudspeaker can play --
regular level, heavy distortion (speaker cone about to rip), complete
blow out. I have no problem destroying a bunch of old speakers to do
this. I would like some advice on what speakers would be best for
this. Obviously top of the line studio monitors are out of the
question as for their cost and the fact that they are pretty much made
to never ever distort at even their highest level. Anybody know a
brand of 'easily distortable' speakers, or certain speakers with
create other 'extra musical' noises when played in a certain way?
Anybody ever have any experience with torn diapraghms? Enough to know
if you cut them with an xacto knife in X way, you will get X effect, or
other ways of modifying speakers to get strange sounds that are usually
unwanted? Those newer 'thumper' speakers made for the hip hop
fan's cars which sit under the seat and don't really produce much
'sound' just pure bass thump, are also intriguing to me, anybody
know what kind of tricks I can make these things do? Also, if I'm,
going to be driving speakers to distort and blow out, how can I do this
without damaging the audiences ears? Should I just make a wav file
with 15 hz at 150 db, say? What about going to the other end, 15,000
hz at 150 db for example? Anybody know a surplus place somewhere in
Pennsylvania/Northern Maryland/Virginia where I can pick up a bunch of
old low quality loudspeakers? Say in the 10- 20$ a pop range? 5 -
15" is what I'm thinking about, and maybe if I can find one old
21" or larger that'd be cool too. What kind of crazy amplifiers
would I have to use for this? I imagine I'd want something with as
many watts and as many channels as possible. Can I rent such a thing?
A lot of questions, I know, but I have faith in all your capable hands.
All help appreciated.


Cheers!
-R

'Now for wrath, ruin, and the red dawn!'
--J.R.R.Tolkein
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 4:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Why don't you find a bunch of cheap loudspeakers and mount them in
different size and style enclosures - and play the enclosures? Most
musical instruments tend to get their sound NOT from the actual
'actuator' but from the body of the instrument itself. Look at the way
others have dealt with this in the past, when it was more in vogue -
i.e. - Stockhausen (helicopters, etc.)

Jonathan
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 9:56:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<inkexit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107711218.820209.322920@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm considering writing a concert piece for loudspeakers. The twist
> is I will be using the actual speakers as instruments, as devices for
> making new sounds, not simply replaying pre recorded ones. So far I
> have only come up with three 'notes' a loudspeaker can play --
> regular level, heavy distortion (speaker cone about to rip), complete
> blow out. I have no problem destroying a bunch of old speakers to do
> this. I would like some advice on what speakers would be best for
> this. Obviously top of the line studio monitors are out of the
> question as for their cost and the fact that they are pretty much made
> to never ever distort at even their highest level. Anybody know a
> brand of 'easily distortable' speakers, or certain speakers with
> create other 'extra musical' noises when played in a certain way?
> Anybody ever have any experience with torn diapraghms? Enough to know
> if you cut them with an xacto knife in X way, you will get X effect, or
> other ways of modifying speakers to get strange sounds that are usually
> unwanted? Those newer 'thumper' speakers made for the hip hop
> fan's cars which sit under the seat and don't really produce much
> 'sound' just pure bass thump, are also intriguing to me, anybody
> know what kind of tricks I can make these things do? Also, if I'm,
> going to be driving speakers to distort and blow out, how can I do this
> without damaging the audiences ears? Should I just make a wav file
> with 15 hz at 150 db, say? What about going to the other end, 15,000
> hz at 150 db for example? Anybody know a surplus place somewhere in
> Pennsylvania/Northern Maryland/Virginia where I can pick up a bunch of
> old low quality loudspeakers? Say in the 10- 20$ a pop range? 5 -
> 15" is what I'm thinking about, and maybe if I can find one old
> 21" or larger that'd be cool too. What kind of crazy amplifiers
> would I have to use for this? I imagine I'd want something with as
> many watts and as many channels as possible. Can I rent such a thing?
> A lot of questions, I know, but I have faith in all your capable hands.
> All help appreciated.
>
>
hmmmmmmmmm

15Hz 150db.
Well you'll get a whole bunch of them for $10


y....oh sod it....

R
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 10:48:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Great advice. Just what I was looking for. I was unclear on two
points:

> >Anyway, who needs amplifiers when there are perfectly good signals
coming
out of every mains socket?

by mains do you mean the line outs of the mixer, or are you talking
about the 120 volt AC outlets?

> > I'd try putting the speakers into the ends of sewer pipes,
attaching light
springs to the cones, using underwater speakers, filling the cones with

rice, and that kind of thing.

How would I fill a cone with something? I thought they were, for lack
of a better term, 1 ply. One single sheet of material. About
underwater speakers--how are these different from regular? I assume
they are waterproof and can handle more output, anything else?

Also, would you say in general that the kind of dBs I'd have to
generate would be 'safe' for an audience? What if I had all the cones
facing away from the audience, would this help enough to make the
difference between 'loud; and lieterally 'ear bleeding?' The last
thing I want is to get sued for a work of my art! :( 

Thanks again.
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 7:55:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

philicorda wrote:
> As far as amplifiers go, it might be best not to mention what you are
> renting them for. :) 
> Anyway, who needs amplifiers when there are perfectly good signals coming
> out of every mains socket?

Or, for low frequencies, you could always run a 12 V battery (or something)
through a relay driven by an oscillator going at the frequency of your
choice. Won't be good on the speaker or the relay, not that it matters...

- Logan
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 11:20:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<inkexit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107748127.490714.219890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Great advice. Just what I was looking for. I was unclear on two
> points:
>
> > >Anyway, who needs amplifiers when there are perfectly good signals
> coming
> out of every mains socket?
>
> by mains do you mean the line outs of the mixer, or are you talking
> about the 120 volt AC outlets?

I assume he means 120V AC sockets. Running woofers off those will blow them
up spectactularly quickly. You can also use a power supply transformer to
step the voltage down to something what won't blow the woofers but may make
them misbehave interestingly. Say 40V. If the woofer *isn't* in a cabinet
you won't hear much 60 hz, but might get some interesting distortion
products.

> > > I'd try putting the speakers into the ends of sewer pipes,
> attaching light
> springs to the cones, using underwater speakers, filling the cones with
>
> rice, and that kind of thing.
>
> How would I fill a cone with something? I thought they were, for lack
> of a better term, 1 ply.

Turn the speaker on its back so the woofer is horizontal. Pour away! I once
had a kitten pee in a woofer that was mounted this way -- luckily, it had an
all-plastic cone and washed clean easily. I don't recommend this, even for
the most avant-garde piece.

> Also, would you say in general that the kind of dBs I'd have to
> generate would be 'safe' for an audience? What if I had all the cones
> facing away from the audience, would this help enough to make the
> difference between 'loud; and lieterally 'ear bleeding?' The last
> thing I want is to get sued for a work of my art! :( 

Well, you're not going to be generating 150dB at low frequencies; get that
idea out of your head. A *very* efficient speaker, horn-mounted, might be
105dB at 1W, 1M; to make that generate 150dB, you'd need to feed it 31,623
watts. I don't think even Phase Linear made one that big. And if you
did...well, if the speaker's 8 ohms it's consuming just under 63A, which
your cable won't carry, your wall socket won't supply...

On the other hand, you could still generate SPL's that are ear-damaging
quite easily. That's between you and your conscience; the law isn't likely
to take a hand in the question. They don't when the Who play, anyway.

Me, if I wanted to generate all kinds of weird noises from speakers, I'd
make the rounds of garage sales and pick up the stinkers there. Then
"prepare" the cones as others have described (leaving metal parts in a
woofer cone and running low-frequency sounds through it can indeed generate
all kinds of weird noises -- try a ball bearing for real fun) and record the
results.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
February 7, 2005 11:40:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1107711218.820209.322920@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
<inkexit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm considering writing a concert piece for loudspeakers. The twist
>is I will be using the actual speakers as instruments, as devices for
>making new sounds, not simply replaying pre recorded ones. So far I
>have only come up with three 'notes' a loudspeaker can play --

Most of what makes speakers sound interesting is the cabinet rather
than the driver. I'd make a bunch of weirdly-sized cabinets from large
diameter PVC pipe.

You can get 8" full-range PA speakers from Quam or Bogen for something
like eight dollars each brand new. You can get smaller communications
speakers from them for even less. They would do nicely in a bunch of
weird random cabinets.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 9:12:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> You can get 8" full-range PA speakers from Quam or Bogen for
something
> like eight dollars each brand new.
> --scott

Scott Dorsey, you are an angel!
Anonymous
February 9, 2005 12:56:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1107915124.226506.228220@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
<inkexit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> You can get 8" full-range PA speakers from Quam or Bogen for
>something
>> like eight dollars each brand new.
>
>Scott Dorsey, you are an angel!

Don't say that until you've listened to them.

I think Speco also has some cheapies. Cain Electronics in Norfolk VA
stocks a bunch of them and they might bargain on weird old stock stuff too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
!