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Looking for Software Suggestions

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Anonymous
February 8, 2005 2:35:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,

I'm interested in creating music at home in a small studio. For the
past few months, I've been using Apple's Garage Band, which I am now
finding quite limiting in terms of:
1) Support for changes in time signature and advanced syncopation
2) Synthesizer & MIDI sequencer availability and functionality
3) Higher-level musical arrangement facilities (i.e. coordinating
"sections" of songs rather than simple regions or loops)

What I'm looking for is suggestions on software packages to check out
to expand my horizons. I've done some basic research and I have at
least heard of Reason, Abelson Live, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Logic Pro,
and Pro Tools. If possible, I'd like to do everything in one software
package, but generally I'm looking for biased opinions of those who
have had to suffer through the learning curves of these tools, and what
they find worthwhile. Pros/cons

RTFM suggestions are welcome as long as they are accompanied by a link
to "TFM". :)  I have no aversion to research if I have a place to
start. References to relevant FAQs would also be helpful.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance..

-- Gokmop

More about : software suggestions

Anonymous
February 8, 2005 2:56:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

gokmop@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm interested in creating music at home in a small studio. For the
> past few months, I've been using Apple's Garage Band, which I am now
> finding quite limiting in terms of:
> 1) Support for changes in time signature and advanced syncopation
> 2) Synthesizer & MIDI sequencer availability and functionality
> 3) Higher-level musical arrangement facilities (i.e. coordinating
> "sections" of songs rather than simple regions or loops)
>
> What I'm looking for is suggestions on software packages to check out
> to expand my horizons. I've done some basic research and I have at
> least heard of Reason, Abelson Live, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Logic Pro,
> and Pro Tools. If possible, I'd like to do everything in one software
> package, but generally I'm looking for biased opinions of those who
> have had to suffer through the learning curves of these tools, and what
> they find worthwhile. Pros/cons
>
> RTFM suggestions are welcome as long as they are accompanied by a link
> to "TFM". :)  I have no aversion to research if I have a place to
> start. References to relevant FAQs would also be helpful.


You don't mention Mark of the Unicorn. They make Digital Performer
(current OSX version is 4.52). It does everything you are looking for,
and probably more than you imagined. Its MIDI sequencing implementation
is reputed to be superior to PT, because it started out as a sequencer.

Unfortunately, MOTU doesn't publish manuals, since that and a CD makes a
copy that much easier to pirate. Many software companies do the same thing.

http://www.motu.com/
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 4:45:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Cubase SE is a great value for the money. I believe it will suit your
needs well. Take a look at that one.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 6:20:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Reason: Seems good for electronica type music composition. Cannot
record digital audio (yet). Interface seems mickey-mousey to me,
though. I haven't delved all of its potential.

ProTools: Amazing for digital audio, good for MIDI, but has no notation
capabilities and not as strong a "songwriting" tool for MIDI as other
apps probably are.

GarageBand: Just came out with version 2. I don't know if that's any
better.

Abelton Live: Seems good for "Live" performance manipulation on the
fly, but you could probably find something better for studio work.

Fruity Loops/Cubase: I don't know anything about these apps.

Logic: A very powerful program with tons of MIDI functionality and
creative tools. Also has digital audio capabilities. Only problem to
me is that version 6.x seems really confusing to use (this from a
ProTools user who spent an hour with the product). Maybe this
"usability" is upgraded in version 7.x. We'll see. Maybe I need my
"usability" upgraded to the next higher version, too.

I'd recommend Logic for the most flexibility and power. My composer
friends use it pretty exclusively. It's pricey, but I think they might
make an Express version still that you could get your feet wet with.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

gokmop@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm interested in creating music at home in a small studio. For the
> past few months, I've been using Apple's Garage Band, which I am now
> finding quite limiting in terms of:
> 1) Support for changes in time signature and advanced syncopation
> 2) Synthesizer & MIDI sequencer availability and functionality
> 3) Higher-level musical arrangement facilities (i.e. coordinating
> "sections" of songs rather than simple regions or loops)
>
> What I'm looking for is suggestions on software packages to check out
> to expand my horizons. I've done some basic research and I have at
> least heard of Reason, Abelson Live, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Logic Pro,
> and Pro Tools. If possible, I'd like to do everything in one software
> package, but generally I'm looking for biased opinions of those who
> have had to suffer through the learning curves of these tools, and what
> they find worthwhile. Pros/cons
>
> RTFM suggestions are welcome as long as they are accompanied by a link
> to "TFM". :)  I have no aversion to research if I have a place to
> start. References to relevant FAQs would also be helpful.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance..
>
> -- Gokmop
>
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 6:20:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1107894026.e515ba3152e041b14b9075811ac4bfb2@teranews>,
Trevor de Clercq <declerct@IDONTLIKESPAMnewschool.edu> wrote:

[snip]

> Logic: A very powerful program with tons of MIDI functionality and
> creative tools. Also has digital audio capabilities. Only problem to
> me is that version 6.x seems really confusing to use (this from a
> ProTools user who spent an hour with the product). Maybe this
> "usability" is upgraded in version 7.x. We'll see. Maybe I need my
> "usability" upgraded to the next higher version, too.
>
> I'd recommend Logic for the most flexibility and power. My composer
> friends use it pretty exclusively. It's pricey, but I think they might
> make an Express version still that you could get your feet wet with.
>
> Cheers,
> Trevor de Clercq
>

Logic Express leaves out one important capability: punch-on-the-fly. You can
automatically punch in (insert) audio, but you can't do tape style punch-ins.

I find the editing in Logic less convenient that ProTools, but you might not.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
February 9, 2005 3:01:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1107891332.842316.67430@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"gokmop@gmail.com" <gokmop@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance..
>
> -- Gokmop

I'll second the vote for Digital Performer, simply the most Mac friendly
and intuitive, elegant interface. I'm still waiting for a version for PCŠ
Anonymous
February 9, 2005 10:14:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

jackfish wrote:

> I'll second the vote for Digital Performer, simply the most Mac friendly
> and intuitive, elegant interface. I'm still waiting for a version for PCŠ

That could be a long wait. <g>

--
ha
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:39:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the followup - I've also heard of MOTU (which took me a
while before I realized that MOTU is the same thing as Digital
Performer) and Paris Pro through various sources.

I appreciate the recommends from everybody - I'm going to keep poking
around, but I seem to be narrowing down around Logic Pro, MOTU, and
maybe ProTools.

Anybody care to offer any commentary about porting music between these
tools? I.e. Garage Band seems to have its own file format, (a
complicated jumble of .AIFF files wrapped up with Apple's secret sauce)
and they will also let you export MP3s into iTunes, but how about
coming up with a MIDI track in one app and moving it into another app?


-- Gokmop
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 2:47:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You need to narrow down your 'wants' before expanding your horizons.
Every tool has something to offer and all of them have their own
strengths and weaknesses.
Think about WHAT kind of music you are planning to
compose/produce/record/create... and then try to meet like-minded
people and see what they are using. Ask them if you could sit next to
them and watch them work.
When a problem looks like a nail, solutions start looking like hammers
they say... you cannot compare Reason to Cubase or Fruityloops to
Digital Performer simply because they are different tools and were
designed for different applications/approaches related to music
creation.
Try to evaluate different interfaces (maybe install and fiddle around
with trial versions?), what one finds intuitive another might find a
crime against humanity.
Are you mainly going to record audio? Are you mainly going to use loops
and sound snippets and 'organise' them in time? are you planning to
type in the notes and have a synthesizer play them for you? What would
be your basic mode for music creation?
Just some thoughts for you...

Best of Luck,

Evangelos



%
Evangelos Himonides
IoE, University of London
tel: +44 2076126599
fax: +44 2076126741


"Allas to those who never sing but die with all their music in them..."



Oliver Wendell Holmes
%
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 4:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Moving MIDI and audio between ProTools, Logic, and DP is fairly easy.
You can't keep the session data very easily, but if you're working with
..AIFF or .WAV files, I think it's not a problem. MIDI is pretty much
cake. It's easy to import into Finale or some notation software, too.
I'm not an expert user, though, so someone else might be able to tell
you any specific glitches. It's a pretty universal format, though;
that's the point.

The only gotcha with ProTools is that you are locked into to using their
hardware. MOTU and Logic and pretty much hardware independent.

I would have mentioned DP in my original post (as we have six stations
running it around here), but for some reason I'm against it, mostly just
because I don't know how to use it and there seems to be way too many
windows and sub-windows for my taste. But that is a totally irrational
reason. I know it works well for many people.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

gokmop@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for the followup - I've also heard of MOTU (which took me a
> while before I realized that MOTU is the same thing as Digital
> Performer) and Paris Pro through various sources.
>
> I appreciate the recommends from everybody - I'm going to keep poking
> around, but I seem to be narrowing down around Logic Pro, MOTU, and
> maybe ProTools.
>
> Anybody care to offer any commentary about porting music between these
> tools? I.e. Garage Band seems to have its own file format, (a
> complicated jumble of .AIFF files wrapped up with Apple's secret sauce)
> and they will also let you export MP3s into iTunes, but how about
> coming up with a MIDI track in one app and moving it into another app?
>
>
> -- Gokmop
>
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 6:59:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Trevor de Clercq wrote:

> I would have mentioned DP in my original post (as we have six
> stations running it around here), but for some reason I'm against it,
> mostly just because I don't know how to use it and there seems to be
> way too many windows and sub-windows for my taste. But that is a
> totally irrational reason. I know it works well for many people.

Well, well, good news for you then! DP 4.5 brought one big window (if
you want).
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 6:46:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> You need to narrow down your 'wants' before expanding your horizons.
> Every tool has something to offer and all of them have their own
> strengths and weaknesses.
> Think about WHAT kind of music you are planning to
> compose/produce/record/create... and then try to meet like-minded
> people and see what they are using. Ask them if you could sit next to
> them and watch them work.

What you're saying makes a lot of sense, and I appreciate the
perspective
you're coming from with the post. It's difficult though to narrow down
my wants,
because what I'm doing involves both sampling, synthesizers, and
recorded
audio particularly guitar & djembe drum. Also, one of the things I've
found
about getting into this area in the first place is that new features
I'm not
familiar with end up getting used as a jumping off point to learn more
about
sound and recording in general. When I started, I didn't really
understand
what a gate did, or why one would use a compressor. I'm not aiming to
get famous, just amuse myself, and express some music ideas in a
digital
format that's reproduceable.

I am trying to avoid the answer of "well, depending on what you want to
do,
there are 3 "best" tools" but I realize that may be the most realistic
answer.

As for getting in touch with people in meatspace, it's a good
suggestion.
I'll have to check if that's an option in my area.

-- Gokmop
!