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Default channel EQ/dynamics settings at FOH. What do you s..

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Anonymous
February 11, 2005 12:20:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey folks:

I'm just in the process of setting up my channel libraries on my DDX3216,
and I am trying to come up with stock channel EQ and dynamics settings for
different inputs. For example, what are the best settings for bass guitar,
male vocal, female vocal, guitar, etc? In the past, I've done this manually
because my desk was analog and did not save fader settings, etc. Since I
have a desk where I can save channel settings, I'd like to be able to
pre-program these settings and then be able to recall them when setting up
for a gig (after getting trim levels set). As a bassist tasked with running
the board, I'm still fairly new to the concept of getting various
instruments to "sit in the mix" correctly. I realize that there are no
perfect settings for this, but I figure that at least there must be a
starting point after which minor adjustments can be made.

So, when you sit down at your desk after you have set your channel trims,
what is next? Do you automatically adjust EQ levels to preset levels prior
to soundcheck using an input list? Do you crank in some compression/gating
on inserts for certain inputs? Then, during soundcheck, what adjustments do
you typically make to get the various instruments and vocals to sit together
in the mix (e.g.so that different intruments have their own frequency bands
in the overall soundscape)?

I will say that I'm accomplished enough to get gain structures set properly
and FOH EQ fairly well set for a given venue. But, it seems to me that the
one trick that experienced FOH engineers have that I lack is a sense of how
best to tastefully and artfully set those channel strips to maximally
reproduce the different elements in a complex mix.

Any input appreciated.

Craig

--


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Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ngXOd.58836$bu.58201@fed1read06> craigmw@EFOFFSPAMcox.net writes:

> I'm just in the process of setting up my channel libraries on my DDX3216,
> and I am trying to come up with stock channel EQ and dynamics settings for
> different inputs. For example, what are the best settings for bass guitar,
> male vocal, female vocal, guitar, etc?

Flat - all of them.

> So, when you sit down at your desk after you have set your channel trims,
> what is next?

Start listening to what comes in.

> Do you automatically adjust EQ levels to preset levels prior
> to soundcheck using an input list? Do you crank in some compression/gating
> on inserts for certain inputs?

Occasionally, experience will tell you that you might want to have a
compressor in line and ready do adjust (or bypass) so you might patch
one in, but not preset it. If it's an acoustic guitar and you know
that the player, no matter what you do, is likely to stick the mic in
the sound hole, and it's a live show and you can't go out there and
tell him to try it where you put it, then you might preset the EQ to
a dip around 150-200 Hz, and if you hear air conditioner noise, you
might want to switch in the low pass filters, and on the drum
overhead channels, you might want to set the EQ to cut things below
500 Hz. But in general, you start with the channels flat.


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However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:01:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike:

I'm getting the impression this post is really showing my naivete. In any
event, I've gotten a useful sense that there are no easy answers and that
it's always empirical.

Thanks much for the reply.

Craig

--


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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1108128188k@trad...
>
> In article <ngXOd.58836$bu.58201@fed1read06> craigmw@EFOFFSPAMcox.net
> writes:
>
>> I'm just in the process of setting up my channel libraries on my DDX3216,
>> and I am trying to come up with stock channel EQ and dynamics settings
>> for
>> different inputs. For example, what are the best settings for bass
>> guitar,
>> male vocal, female vocal, guitar, etc?
>
> Flat - all of them.
>
>> So, when you sit down at your desk after you have set your channel trims,
>> what is next?
>
> Start listening to what comes in.
>
>> Do you automatically adjust EQ levels to preset levels prior
>> to soundcheck using an input list? Do you crank in some
>> compression/gating
>> on inserts for certain inputs?
>
> Occasionally, experience will tell you that you might want to have a
> compressor in line and ready do adjust (or bypass) so you might patch
> one in, but not preset it. If it's an acoustic guitar and you know
> that the player, no matter what you do, is likely to stick the mic in
> the sound hole, and it's a live show and you can't go out there and
> tell him to try it where you put it, then you might preset the EQ to
> a dip around 150-200 Hz, and if you hear air conditioner noise, you
> might want to switch in the low pass filters, and on the drum
> overhead channels, you might want to set the EQ to cut things below
> 500 Hz. But in general, you start with the channels flat.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
February 11, 2005 3:38:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ceedub" <craigmw@EFOFFSPAMcox.net> wrote in message
news:ngXOd.58836$bu.58201@fed1read06...
> Hey folks:
>
> I'm just in the process of setting up my channel libraries on my DDX3216,
> and I am trying to come up with stock channel EQ and dynamics settings for
> different inputs. For example, what are the best settings for bass guitar,
> male vocal, female vocal, guitar, etc? In the past, I've done this
manually
> because my desk was analog and did not save fader settings, etc. Since I
> have a desk where I can save channel settings, I'd like to be able to
> pre-program these settings and then be able to recall them when setting up
> for a gig (after getting trim levels set). As a bassist tasked with
running
> the board, I'm still fairly new to the concept of getting various
> instruments to "sit in the mix" correctly. I realize that there are no
> perfect settings for this, but I figure that at least there must be a
> starting point after which minor adjustments can be made.
>
> So, when you sit down at your desk after you have set your channel trims,
> what is next? Do you automatically adjust EQ levels to preset levels prior
> to soundcheck using an input list? Do you crank in some compression/gating
> on inserts for certain inputs? Then, during soundcheck, what adjustments
do
> you typically make to get the various instruments and vocals to sit
together
> in the mix (e.g.so that different intruments have their own frequency
bands
> in the overall soundscape)?
>
> I will say that I'm accomplished enough to get gain structures set
properly
> and FOH EQ fairly well set for a given venue. But, it seems to me that the
> one trick that experienced FOH engineers have that I lack is a sense of
how
> best to tastefully and artfully set those channel strips to maximally
> reproduce the different elements in a complex mix.


You might be in for a disappointment. There are no recepies in audio, not of
a kind you've described. Everything is case-specific. You sit down and
listen. You try to identify elements of the mix that need adjustment, as
well as those that don't. And then you do what you think should be done with
the former and don't mess with the latter. If it sounds better, if it makes
the whole mix sound better, you're on the right track. If not, try something
else. Make mental notices as you progress, but keep in mind that whatever
worked this time may prove to be completely wrong in another situation.

You need a bag of tricks and an open mind.

Predrag
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 5:42:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ceedub Wrote:
> Hey folks:
>
> I'm just in the process of setting up my channel libraries on my
> DDX3216,
> and I am trying to come up with stock channel EQ and dynamics settings
> for
> different inputs. For example, what are the best settings for bass
> guitar,
> male vocal, female vocal, guitar, etc?

The best "default" setting is 'flat'. If you need EQ, add some... but
if you can get it right with microphone selection and placement then
that is infinitely preferable.

Dynamics settings? What are you trying to do? If you're trying to
perform envelop modification then it might be handy to have a handle on
what you're trying to modify before you attempt to perform that
modification... if you're looking to 'peak limit' then know the
limitations of the system and set up your limiters in a manner that
will perform the required protection.

There is no rule that says you have to turn any knobs to have performed
your job... often knowing what knobs not to turn is more important than
touching anything...

Now... if you're going to be working on the same show with the same
artist night after night [like a tour for instance] then you can get
basic presets in "production rehearsals" that will translate from show
to show, song to song, etc... but if you're doing "one offs" you will
actually be working out of a hole if you try to have any kind of
'standard configuration'.

Best of luck.


--
Fletcher
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 9:17:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ceedub wrote:

> For example, what are the best settings for bass guitar,
> male vocal, female vocal, guitar, etc?

What is the best flaor for an apple? How about for a peach?

All those settings are player/instrument/amp system/venue dependent. I'd
be inclined to start out unset and then save particular settings after
I'd determined them for a given situation, if I thought they'd again be
applicable.

--
ha
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 9:17:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ceedub wrote:

> I'm getting the impression this post is really showing my naivete. In any
> event, I've gotten a useful sense that there are no easy answers and that
> it's always empirical.

Yep, you're on it, Craig. It's a different deal everytime you do it. If
you try to use presets you will wind up changing them so often that
you'd save time starting from scratch for each situation.

Now, if the same people play the same venue using the same on-stage
setup, you might wind up with some useful presets, especially if the
size of the audience remains consistent, they all dress the same for
each show, and the temp and humidity stay the same, too. <g>

--
ha
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 12:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Fletcher wrote:

> There is no rule that says you have to turn any knobs to have performed
> your job... often knowing what knobs not to turn is more important than
> touching anything...

Amen, bingo, ka-ching. - .sig material.

--
ha
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 12:47:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1grtcdy.1rpdmgscjs2qrN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> ceedub wrote:
>
>> I'm getting the impression this post is really showing my naivete. In any
>> event, I've gotten a useful sense that there are no easy answers and that
>> it's always empirical.
>
> Yep, you're on it, Craig. It's a different deal everytime you do it. If
> you try to use presets you will wind up changing them so often that
> you'd save time starting from scratch for each situation.
>
> Now, if the same people play the same venue using the same on-stage
> setup, you might wind up with some useful presets, especially if the
> size of the audience remains consistent, they all dress the same for
> each show, and the temp and humidity stay the same, too. <g>
>
> --
> ha

Hank:

Woah... I didn't realize all of those factors. Since I'm in the band and I'm
the unofficial and oft abused "sound guy," most of our instrument
configurations are not going to be changing much. I was thinking that venue
differences could be handled by FOH EQ. But, I take it that this is not
practical, nor particularly "artful."

Thanks much...

Craig
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 1:53:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

That's a good use for reheasals. Make use of that time wisely.


--
Best Regards,

Mark A. Weiss, P.E.
www.mwcomms.com
-
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 9:49:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ceedub wrote:

> I was thinking that venue
> differences could be handled by FOH EQ. But, I take it that this is not
> practical, nor particularly "artful."

Venue changes affect what each mic hears. I often start there, working
to get the mic hearing what I want it to hear from the intended source
plus the room and the stage monitors. That way I can clean things up
right where they first enter the system and then use the room EQ more
sparingly and and more particularly to address the FOH system's
interaction with the room. In the long run, all these aspects of control
are interdependent, kind of like neighboring bands on a bad graphic EQ.

--
ha
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 6:05:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1grv9xv.weyoa17zozybN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> ceedub wrote:
>
>> I was thinking that venue
>> differences could be handled by FOH EQ. But, I take it that this is not
>> practical, nor particularly "artful."
>
> Venue changes affect what each mic hears. I often start there, working
> to get the mic hearing what I want it to hear from the intended source
> plus the room and the stage monitors. That way I can clean things up
> right where they first enter the system and then use the room EQ more
> sparingly and and more particularly to address the FOH system's
> interaction with the room. In the long run, all these aspects of control
> are interdependent, kind of like neighboring bands on a bad graphic EQ.
>
> --
> ha

Hank:

Yep, you are right about the mic hearing different things depending on the
venue. I guess there are no easy answers.

Thanks again for the insight.

Craig
!