Which "baby grand" to buy?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The piano book, by Larry Fine, has a really good piece of advice; a
recording piano should be over 6 feet in length. Now you can do
whatever you want to do, but I remember the advice another expert had
on recording drums that I took and it made all the difference.
Sampled pianos, like unsampled ones are a taste thing. Audition every
one you can through speakers you are familiar with. Keyboard-wise, I
like the pianos on the more expensive Kurzweil models. Best overall, is
Ivory by Ilio. It's a hardwire sampler program plug-in. Quite real, lot
of choices and relatively inexpensive. You'll need a compatible set-up
computer system, make sure about that first.
You'll miss what I've come to call "mic soup" the tonal "stew" that
occurs when combinations of piano strings are struck and the results
hang in the air and into the mics. A sample of a struck C, and a struck
E, will never interact. I'm not sure if anyone cares about this but
me...

see12mic

geek wrote:
> A client of mine is in the market for a piano for his project studio.
He's
> been looking for a baby grand. His space is limited, budget not so
much.
> We've been looking at a variety of used acoustic pianos but I've also
been
> pitching the idea of a digital baby grand for a couple of reasons;
>
> a) His project studio is fairly small. He doesn't have isolation. So
one or
> more players going at the same time could lead to trouble.
>
> b) He's not that experienced an engineer, being able to plug the unit
in
> with a little room micing might yield the best results.
>
> I know that he can learn to deal with these issue as he gets better
as an
> engineer, but the space is really just for him to write in. The piano
would
> more or less act like a writing tool. The "needing a baby grand"
thing.....
> purely for bling factor. He's already using a Trinity for piano
sounds. He
> just wants to be able to sit down at a real, weighted 88 key, board
and let
> er rip.
>
> So my questions?
>
> 1) Digital or acoustic? (I should note that he's tracking to a PT Mix
rig
> using the Control 24 as his surface)
>
> 2) Which digital gives the most bang for the buck?
>
> 3) Which acoustic will stand up to humid west coast conditions the
best?
>
> For the record, I'm an analog guy all the way when I can be, I just
think
> digital may suit this situation better.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input,
>
> Mike.
> --
>
>
> mikerekka at hotmail dot com hates spam

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

tuchel wrote:

> The piano book, by Larry Fine, has a really good piece of advice; a
> recording piano should be over 6 feet in length.

I agree. But I have met one baby grand that is the exception in my own
experience. It's a Yamaha owned by a local music teacher, that her
husband bought used for her, and he knows little or nothing about
pianos! While I would certainly want to record a larger piano, were I
forced to work with her baby grand I'd just get right to it.

--
ha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've been using a Kawai baby grand for 15 years and it has one of the
warmest sounds of any I've heard.
Still, for studio work, you'll get better tonality from a larger piano or
recording upright.

"geek" <mikerekka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsV6Pd.363069$Xk.5767@pd7tw3no...
> A client of mine is in the market for a piano for his project studio. He's
> been looking for a baby grand. His space is limited, budget not so much.
> We've been looking at a variety of used acoustic pianos but I've also been
> pitching the idea of a digital baby grand for a couple of reasons;
>
> a) His project studio is fairly small. He doesn't have isolation. So one
or
> more players going at the same time could lead to trouble.
>
> b) He's not that experienced an engineer, being able to plug the unit in
> with a little room micing might yield the best results.
>
> I know that he can learn to deal with these issue as he gets better as an
> engineer, but the space is really just for him to write in. The piano
would
> more or less act like a writing tool. The "needing a baby grand"
thing.....
> purely for bling factor. He's already using a Trinity for piano sounds. He
> just wants to be able to sit down at a real, weighted 88 key, board and
let
> er rip.
>
> So my questions?
>
> 1) Digital or acoustic? (I should note that he's tracking to a PT Mix rig
> using the Control 24 as his surface)
>
> 2) Which digital gives the most bang for the buck?
>
> 3) Which acoustic will stand up to humid west coast conditions the best?
>
> For the record, I'm an analog guy all the way when I can be, I just think
> digital may suit this situation better.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input,
>
> Mike.
> --
>
>
> mikerekka at hotmail dot com hates spam
>
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

He isn't primarily a piano player. He's looking for another writing tool and
to perhaps track with it a bit. We have access to a really great Steinway
for serious tracking.

Mike.

--


mikerekka at hotmail dot com hates spam


"JimKollens" <JimKollens@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1108166980.495473.145450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Geek: <digital or acoustic>
>
> Is he a piano player? If he is, he will never settle for a digital
> piano. And if it is a baby grand he wants (and isn't recording people
> who demand Steinways,) he'd really be doing himself an injustice if he
> hasn't tried the Charles Walters.
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <LWcPd.364834$Xk.82815@pd7tw3no> mikerekka@hotmail.com writes:

> He isn't primarily a piano player. He's looking for another writing tool and
> to perhaps track with it a bit. We have access to a really great Steinway
> for serious tracking.

Sounds like a prime candidate for an electronic keyboard that has a
good piano sound. It's hard to go wrong with Kurzweil, but there are
plenty of other choices these days. Send him to a music store.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <fKLPd.12210$jL3.5939@fe09.lga>,
"polymod" <polymod@optonline.net> wrote:

> First of all, as a piano tuner going on his 27th year in business, I can say
> to stay away from baby grand pianos. If you're in need of an accoustic, go
> with a nice Yamaha U1 thru U7 studio upright. The string length is what you
> pay for, and these pianos are wonderfull...in MHO, that is.

Another vote for Yamaha U series uprights. I have had a U3 for the last
10 years that is still my favorite upright that I've ever played. It
beats most cheaper babies as well.

If you have the cash, I like some of the Steinway baby grands better,
just for their bigger sound and feel. Various other top-brand babies are
also pretty nice, but expensive. But that really depends on the genre of
music and the size of the room as well as your budget.

I highly suggest you go and TRY all the pianos you're looking at
personally, with a wide variety of repertoire, for several hours, before
you commit to any one piano.

As for digital pianos, I have no input except that classical pianists
won't be very pleased.

-Todd

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

FWIW, I've been trying to record my Yamaha C2 for 4 years, and I've
basically given up on getting a decent sound. And yes, I'm open to the
possibility that I'm just not going about it properly.

Dave

"geek" <mikerekka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsV6Pd.363069$Xk.5767@pd7tw3no...
> A client of mine is in the market for a piano for his project studio. He's
> been looking for a baby grand. His space is limited, budget not so much.
> We've been looking at a variety of used acoustic pianos but I've also been
> pitching the idea of a digital baby grand for a couple of reasons;
>
> a) His project studio is fairly small. He doesn't have isolation. So one
or
> more players going at the same time could lead to trouble.
>
> b) He's not that experienced an engineer, being able to plug the unit in
> with a little room micing might yield the best results.
>
> I know that he can learn to deal with these issue as he gets better as an
> engineer, but the space is really just for him to write in. The piano
would
> more or less act like a writing tool. The "needing a baby grand"
thing.....
> purely for bling factor. He's already using a Trinity for piano sounds. He
> just wants to be able to sit down at a real, weighted 88 key, board and
let
> er rip.
>
> So my questions?
>
> 1) Digital or acoustic? (I should note that he's tracking to a PT Mix rig
> using the Control 24 as his surface)
>
> 2) Which digital gives the most bang for the buck?
>
> 3) Which acoustic will stand up to humid west coast conditions the best?
>
> For the record, I'm an analog guy all the way when I can be, I just think
> digital may suit this situation better.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input,
>
> Mike.
> --
>
>
> mikerekka at hotmail dot com hates spam
>
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-02-13, polymod <polymod@optonline.net> wrote:

>> 1) Digital or acoustic? (I should note that he's tracking to a PT Mix rig
>> using the Control 24 as his surface)
> First of all, as a piano tuner going on his 27th year in business, I can say
> to stay away from baby grand pianos.

It depends on what you consider a "baby grand". Yamaha C2 is in this
category, and to me is among the most desirable pianos made today.

Some digital pianos might sound better in a recording, but few if any
are really realistic from the point of view of the player. You don't
have to be Murray Perahia for this to matter.

I agree that the bigger Yamaha uprights are excellent pianos, but
there's really nothing wrong with a well-constructed 5'8" ("baby" )
grand, and the benefits of a proper grand piano key action and pedal
action are immeasurable to a serious performer.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <jj0b115nja457n536b17hh2roab9o3poao@4ax.com>, Kevin Moreland
<noemail@nospamnoemail.net> wrote:

> Speaking
> from a piano arists perspect, a better investment would be to stick
> with a decent electric like the Yam P250 until I had the cash to
> afford a real piano.



Speaking from a studio owner's perspective, you gotta have the real
thing. Clients would roll their eyes if I told them I had an electric
piano. It books studio time all by itself and paid for itself long ago.

I'll be spending the day tomorrow recording nothing but piano tracks
for a record. Keyboard players already own synth pianos. When it comes
time to record, just about all of them want to play the real thing.

As an engineer/producer, so do I. (Kinda surprisingly, most of them do
not have an acoustic piano at home.)

Someone else was pissing on Korean pianos. I've had a 6' 1" Young Chang
in my studio for 23 years and I can think of one person who didn't like
it, an old guy who wanted a very dark Steinway.

It is almost without exception that people love the sound of their
recordings with it. Whether for solo or multitrack work.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <slrnd1dd3i.33c.fishbowl@radagast.home.conservatory.com>,
james of tucson <fishbowl@radagast.home.conservatory.com> wrote:

> As the studio guy, you might be interested in the sound that comes out,
> and in that sense, lots of electronic pianos are really excellent. I
> mean, what's not to like about an instrument that gives you a stereo digital
> feed, that doesn't need to be tuned, etc?



Again, clients I deal with aren't at all interested in using an
electric piano when a well cared for, tuned grand sits there.
Beckoning.

I don't record just 2 tracks of information either.

Recording a real piano is a wide open book. The piano sound I'll want
depends first of all of whether it is gonna be a solo or almost solo
instrument with (or w/o) vocals. Or a multitrack thing with stuff or
lots of other stuff in the mix.

If a mostly solo recording, next is what kind of music. If it's
classical kinda stuff, then you want a darker, rolled off sound. Which
affects how close to the instrument you want to place the mics. And
what kinda space should the piano be in? My piano's in a pretty nice
room with an adjacent natural chamber. So there is also what, if any,
reverb I want. And do I want natural 'reverb' or a box?

And if the piano's gotta fit into a medium or dense multitrack mix,
then I'm going for something quite different.

I could continue on with this, but that's the creativity and
flexibility of recording a real instrument. What it sound like depends
on a whole mess of engineering factors. (I posted a great Nashville
trick here that was shown to me last year using an omni mic and an
LA3- probably accessable if anyone wants to look.) It's what keeps me
interested in my craft, cuz I get to help create a piano sound I think
will drop just wonderfully into the final product. Which is a ton of
different piano sounds.

But only one piano ;>




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com