Sprint Plan Prices Deceptive? (Free & Clear)

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
"price".

Verizon tells me the taxes and surcharge would bring *their* $35 plan
to about $40. That's a lot less upcharge than Sprint, assuming I am
being given a straight story (and based on coversations with and posts
from a few Verizon customers, that sounds at least fairly clse to
truth). I used a monthly prepaid service awhile back, and even though
they have a reputation for scewing people over, their upcharge
percentage was even less than Verizon's -- about 10%: $40 -->
$44.28). And this carrier used the SPCS network to habdle its calls!

Sure sounds to me like Sprint may be using fees to allow them to quote
a competitive price but in actuality charge more.

In a way this reminds me of a stuation in most U.S. (not Euoropean)
restaurants, namely that they don't list beer, cocktail or soft drink
prices -- only wine. Few people bother to ask, and they can end up
paying extremely jacked-up prices. (I sometimes ask, and the servers
usually don't know and seem surprised anyone would ask -- "the
computer prices it" -- and they sometimes balk at checking.)
Apparently Sprint, more than some other providers, is using this same
"hardly anyone one will bother to ask THAT" angle to ratchet up their
profits. And, BTW, I had to go through several CS reps before I could
even get an answer about the all-inclusive cost.

Partly due to this, I may cancel while I'm still in the no-penalty
cancellation period.
22 answers Last reply
More about sprint plan prices deceptive free clear
  1. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    news:6fdfe3c2.0407121118.4403575e@posting.google.com...
    > I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    > customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    > charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    > will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    > "price".

    Which plan did you sign up for, the Fair & Flexible plan, or the flat 300
    min. plan? Did you buy an extra option like 7 PM N & W, or PCS2PCS, or F &
    CA?

    >
    > Verizon tells me the taxes and surcharge would bring *their* $35 plan
    > to about $40. That's a lot less upcharge than Sprint, assuming I am
    > being given a straight story (and based on coversations with and posts
    > from a few Verizon customers, that sounds at least fairly clse to
    > truth). I used a monthly prepaid service awhile back, and even though
    > they have a reputation for scewing people over, their upcharge
    > percentage was even less than Verizon's -- about 10%: $40 -->
    > $44.28). And this carrier used the SPCS network to habdle its calls!

    Taxes and surcharges average around 20%. Some areas are higher, some lower,
    depending on the state and local taxes applied. Instead of listening to
    Verizon customers, why don't you call Verizon directly and find out from the
    horse's mouth?
    >
    > Sure sounds to me like Sprint may be using fees to allow them to quote
    > a competitive price but in actuality charge more.
    >
    The only fee that SPCS might charge that Verizon might not, is a porting fee
    to recapture their expenses, and that $0.40 / a month.

    > In a way this reminds me of a stuation in most U.S. (not Euoropean)
    > restaurants, namely that they don't list beer, cocktail or soft drink
    > prices -- only wine. Few people bother to ask, and they can end up
    > paying extremely jacked-up prices. (I sometimes ask, and the servers
    > usually don't know and seem surprised anyone would ask -- "the
    > computer prices it" -- and they sometimes balk at checking.)
    > Apparently Sprint, more than some other providers, is using this same
    > "hardly anyone one will bother to ask THAT" angle to ratchet up their
    > profits. And, BTW, I had to go through several CS reps before I could
    > even get an answer about the all-inclusive cost.
    >
    > Partly due to this, I may cancel while I'm still in the no-penalty
    > cancellation period.

    It's your decision. You might supply some additional details on which plan
    and options (if any) you took, along with where you live (city & state), as
    some additional information can be passed on to here.

    Bob

    Bob
  2. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "Bob Smith" <usirsclt_No_Spam_@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<K8CIc.341$mL5.271@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
    > "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    > news:6fdfe3c2.0407121118.4403575e@posting.google.com...
    > > I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    > > customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    > > charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    > > will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    > > "price".
    >
    > Which plan did you sign up for, the Fair & Flexible plan, or the flat 300
    > min. plan? Did you buy an extra option like 7 PM N & W, or PCS2PCS, or F &
    > CA?

    The flat plan, which they call Free & Clear now. No extras.
    >
    > >
    > > Verizon tells me the taxes and surcharge would bring *their* $35 plan
    > > to about $40. That's a lot less upcharge than Sprint, assuming I am
    > > being given a straight story (and based on coversations with and posts
    > > from a few Verizon customers, that sounds at least fairly clse to
    > > truth). I used a monthly prepaid service awhile back, and even though
    > > they have a reputation for scewing people over, their upcharge
    > > percentage was even less than Verizon's -- about 10%: $40 -->
    > > $44.28). And this carrier used the SPCS network to habdle its calls!
    >
    > Taxes and surcharges average around 20%. Some areas are higher, some lower,
    > depending on the state and local taxes applied. Instead of listening to
    > Verizon customers, why don't you call Verizon directly and find out from the
    > horse's mouth?

    I did. That's what I meant by "Verizon tells me..."

    > The only fee that SPCS might charge that Verizon might not, is a porting fee
    > to recapture their expenses, and that $0.40 / a month.

    I don't think they did. I just posted a followup that I think solves
    my issue, namely why I think the all-inclusive price CS quoted me was
    wrong, i.e. higher than I'm actually going to get billed. But I
    thought I'd answer your questions anyway since you took the time to
    reply.

    > It's your decision. You might supply some additional details on which plan
    > and options (if any) you took, along with where you live (city & state), as
    > some additional information can be passed on to here.

    Again, no options selected. And I'm in suburban Chicago, where, per
    my discussion with a city official (see my later post), state tax is
    7% and city tax is 1%. Again, this is all fyi, since I think I've
    solved the issue.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    news:6fdfe3c2.0407121118.4403575e@posting.google.com...
    > I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    > customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    > charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    > will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    > "price".

    I just received my bill today, I live in Cincinnati, Ohio and this is what
    it shows for the break down as far
    as taxes and surcharges go..

    Federal tax 1.55
    Hamilton county sales tax 0.52
    Ohio state sales tax 3.11

    Federal universal service 1.02
    Federal E911 .40
    Federal wireless portability .40

    $7.00
  4. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "thunder" <thunder@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<tWDIc.204015$DG4.14476@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...
    > "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    > news:6fdfe3c2.0407121118.4403575e@posting.google.com...
    > > I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    > > customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    > > charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    > > will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    > > "price".
    >
    > I just received my bill today, I live in Cincinnati, Ohio and this is what
    > it shows for the break down as far
    > as taxes and surcharges go..
    >
    > Federal tax 1.55
    > Hamilton county sales tax 0.52
    > Ohio state sales tax 3.11
    >
    > Federal universal service 1.02
    > Federal E911 .40
    > Federal wireless portability .40
    >
    > $7.00

    Assuming you're also on the $35 flat-rate plan w/no extras, it looks
    like your total up-charge is 20%. As I mention in a followup to my
    own post, I think that CS's quote was wrong and that my actual ongoing
    bill will have about a 15% upcharge instead of 27%. Hard to believe
    the tax in Cincy would be higher than in suburban Chicago, but again
    I'm not certain what your monthly base+options is.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    And that is about what you'd pay under every wireless carrier at your
    current location. In my case I don't have a county tax.

    Chris

    "thunder" <thunder@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
    news:tWDIc.204015$DG4.14476@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
    >
    > "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    > news:6fdfe3c2.0407121118.4403575e@posting.google.com...
    >> I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    >> customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    >> charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    >> will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    >> "price".
    >
    > I just received my bill today, I live in Cincinnati, Ohio and this is what
    > it shows for the break down as far
    > as taxes and surcharges go..
    >
    > Federal tax 1.55
    > Hamilton county sales tax 0.52
    > Ohio state sales tax 3.11
    >
    > Federal universal service 1.02
    > Federal E911 .40
    > Federal wireless portability .40
    >
    > $7.00
    >
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:

    > Assuming you're also on the $35 flat-rate plan w/no extras, it looks
    > like your total up-charge is 20%. As I mention in a followup to my
    > own post, I think that CS's quote was wrong and that my actual ongoing
    > bill will have about a 15% upcharge instead of 27%. Hard to believe
    > the tax in Cincy would be higher than in suburban Chicago, but again
    > I'm not certain what your monthly base+options is.

    Someone's gotta make up for Ohio having some of the lowest telecom
    prices in the known universe.... :) (Not necessarily referring to cellular
    here, but the landline/data tarriffs the telcos have filed in Ohio tend to
    be ridiculously cheap...)

    Seriously - don't bother asking someone in a call center that probably isn't
    even in the same state as you are, what your taxes are going to be. They
    won't be able to answer accurately.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:

    > Aren't CS reps trained in all apspects of invoice questions --
    > including to follow up with a supervisor when necessary instead of
    > making uneducated assumptions (in my case, that ongoing taxes will be
    > the same as the first month's taxes)?

    They *should* just refuse to estimate at all. I don't see how they can
    accurately estimate with the HUGE number of possible combinations of
    city, county, state and federal taxes out there, and I guarantee... ain't
    none of 'em CPA's. :)

    > phones, but at least the general concept kind of applies to my
    > topic?and I don't know where else to get on my soapbox about it.)

    Other than Bennigan's listing Guinness at "Market Price" (!) I don't know
    of any place that *doesn't* list beer prices.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    news:6fdfe3c2.0407121909.43509b14@posting.google.com...
    > "Bob Smith" <usirsclt_No_Spam_@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:<K8CIc.341$mL5.271@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
    > > "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message
    > > news:6fdfe3c2.0407121118.4403575e@posting.google.com...
    > > > I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    > > > customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    > > > charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    > > > will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    > > > "price".
    > >
    > > Which plan did you sign up for, the Fair & Flexible plan, or the flat
    300
    > > min. plan? Did you buy an extra option like 7 PM N & W, or PCS2PCS, or F
    &
    > > CA?
    >
    > The flat plan, which they call Free & Clear now. No extras.

    Ok. Out of curiousity, why didn't you go with the F & F. If you go over your
    monthly minutes, it's much cheaper for a low end user. If you were to go to
    maybe 350 AT minutes in a month on the F & C plan, it would cost you $20
    more ... plus tax. If you were on the F & F plan, it would cost you just $5
    more ... plus tax. Here's a web page where you can compare -
    http://tinyurl.com/3znlv

    Glad to see that you were able to figure it out on the taxes for your area.

    Bob
  9. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    I am on a retention deal, I have 1000 anytime minutes(national) unlimited
    nights and weekends starting at 8pm. for $50 a month.

    >
    > Assuming you're also on the $35 flat-rate plan w/no extras, it looks
    > like your total up-charge is 20%. As I mention in a followup to my
    > own post, I think that CS's quote was wrong and that my actual ongoing
    > bill will have about a 15% upcharge instead of 27%. Hard to believe
    > the tax in Cincy would be higher than in suburban Chicago, but again
    > I'm not certain what your monthly base+options is.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

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    Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:
    > I signed up for a "$35/month" plan with Sprint PCS(brand new
    > customer). Turns out with all fees and taxes, my base minimum monthly
    > charge (assuming I use no extras and stay below my minutes allotment)
    > will be $44.34. That's effectively a 27% upcharge over the $35
    > "price".
    >
    > Verizon tells me the taxes and surcharge would bring *their* $35 plan
    > to about $40.

    It varies by state. I had nearly identical charges on my Verizon bill
    as opposed to my Sprint PCS bill. The only thing bigger on my SPCS bill
    was the pooling and portability charge for WLNP, but that has just been
    reduced to $0.40 per phone [from $1.10].

    >
    > Sure sounds to me like Sprint may be using fees to allow them to quote
    > a competitive price but in actuality charge more.

    I have to disagree whole heartedly.
    >
    > Partly due to this, I may cancel while I'm still in the no-penalty
    > cancellation period.

    Well, if you go to Verizon, you will be in for a surprise. They charge
    more for EVERYTHING, and you will find the taxes very comparable.

    - --

    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

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  11. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<06adnal9P6j0xW7dRVn-hw@lmi.net>...

    > Other than Bennigan's listing Guinness at "Market Price" (!) I don't know
    > of any place that *doesn't* list beer prices.

    Wow! Maybe California has a beverage price disclosure law like many
    of the European countries? Except for Chinese restaurants,
    order-at-the-counter places, some small mom-and-pop joints and a
    handful of the national chains, restaurants around here usually don't
    list beer prices unless it's a pitcher or a special.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "Bob Smith" <usirsclt_No_Spam_@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<zKIIc.828$mL5.280@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

    > Ok. Out of curiousity, why didn't you go with the F & F. If you go over your
    > monthly minutes, it's much cheaper for a low end user.

    Based on my current usage patterns, I'll virtually never exceed 300
    peak-period minutes, and I didn't want to lock into the two-year
    contract required for F&F. Got a one-year for F&C.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "thunder" <thunder@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<aMRIc.209390$DG4.88731@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...
    > I am on a retention deal, I have 1000 anytime minutes(national) unlimited
    > nights and weekends starting at 8pm. for $50 a month.
    >
    Oh, then the Cincy upcharge % is about the same as here in my
    Chicago-area burb (assuming my predictions turn out to be correct when
    the second invoice arrives).
  14. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<06adna59P6hgym7dRVn-hw@lmi.net>...
    > Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Assuming you're also on the $35 flat-rate plan w/no extras, it looks
    > > like your total up-charge is 20%. As I mention in a followup to my
    > > own post, I think that CS's quote was wrong and that my actual ongoing
    > > bill will have about a 15% upcharge instead of 27%. Hard to believe
    > > the tax in Cincy would be higher than in suburban Chicago, but again
    > > I'm not certain what your monthly base+options is.
    >
    > Someone's gotta make up for Ohio having some of the lowest telecom
    > prices in the known universe.... :) (Not necessarily referring to cellular
    > here, but the landline/data tarriffs the telcos have filed in Ohio tend to
    > be ridiculously cheap...)

    I live in suburban Chicago but I spend a lot of time in Columbus, and
    the predominant local carrier for both areas, SBC, gets more than they
    deserve. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the Midwest they
    provide the most godawful service imaginable, they lie, they grease
    politcians' palms more than any company on earth, they try to sabotage
    other local carriers, and on and on. Believe me, I shed no tears for
    them and did somersaults of joy when I was able to switch to a new
    local carrier a few years ago (though SBC did all they could to make
    the switch as difficult as possible).

    And based on thunder's followup post, it looks like the Ohio wireless
    tarriffs aren't as high as we thought, anyway.

    > Seriously - don't bother asking someone in a call center that probably isn't
    > even in the same state as you are, what your taxes are going to be. They
    > won't be able to answer accurately.

    Maybe...but if the local taxes, etc. are all in the computer, it
    doesn't seem like coming up with an estimation program would be hard.
    Regardless, at least they could just say "somewhere between 10% and
    30% depending on where you live", as Verizon's sales brochure does
    (just noticed that this morning). Of course, that's a pretty wide
    spread so this wouldn't be too helpful in estimating costs.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:

    > I live in suburban Chicago but I spend a lot of time in Columbus, and
    > the predominant local carrier for both areas, SBC, gets more than they
    > deserve. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the Midwest they
    > provide the most godawful service imaginable, they lie, they grease
    > politcians' palms more than any company on earth, they try to sabotage
    > other local carriers, and on and on.

    I spent the first almost 34 years of my life in Cleveland, and I too had
    to deal with SBC, so I understand what you're saying.

    > And based on thunder's followup post, it looks like the Ohio wireless
    > tarriffs aren't as high as we thought, anyway.

    Well, the regulatory issue in Ohio is taxes. Wireless carriers don't
    file tarriffs there. I was just referring to how Ohio in general is a cheap
    place to buy telecomm services and was using tarriffed services to support
    my point.

    >> Seriously - don't bother asking someone in a call center that probably isn't
    >> even in the same state as you are, what your taxes are going to be. They
    >> won't be able to answer accurately.
    >
    > Maybe...but if the local taxes, etc. are all in the computer

    You're right, but that's typically not data that a company would give to
    its CSRs. (Maybe it should be.)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:

    >> Other than Bennigan's listing Guinness at "Market Price" (!) I don't know
    >> of any place that *doesn't* list beer prices.
    >
    > Wow! Maybe California has a beverage price disclosure law like many
    > of the European countries? Except for Chinese restaurants,
    > order-at-the-counter places, some small mom-and-pop joints and a
    > handful of the national chains, restaurants around here usually don't
    > list beer prices unless it's a pitcher or a special.

    That is actually true of the Cleveland area, too. I lived in Cleveland from
    the time I was born until the end of June of last year.)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    I live in Milwaukee which is also served by sbc. I don't think
    switching, if it can really be called that, to metrocom or someone else,
    is an option, because nobody but sbc has switching equipment and wires
    running to homes and businesses. All the "competing" carriers are
    leasing line/time from sbc. Sbc would still be making money off of me.
    As soon as someone else spends the money and puts up their own network
    of wires/switches/co so I can get my dsl without having to have a sbc
    line and at a competitive price, then I will switch.


    Rick wrote:
    > Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<06adna59P6hgym7dRVn-hw@lmi.net>...
    >
    >>Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Assuming you're also on the $35 flat-rate plan w/no extras, it looks
    >>>like your total up-charge is 20%. As I mention in a followup to my
    >>>own post, I think that CS's quote was wrong and that my actual ongoing
    >>>bill will have about a 15% upcharge instead of 27%. Hard to believe
    >>>the tax in Cincy would be higher than in suburban Chicago, but again
    >>>I'm not certain what your monthly base+options is.
    >>
    >>Someone's gotta make up for Ohio having some of the lowest telecom
    >>prices in the known universe.... :) (Not necessarily referring to cellular
    >>here, but the landline/data tarriffs the telcos have filed in Ohio tend to
    >>be ridiculously cheap...)
    >
    >
    > I live in suburban Chicago but I spend a lot of time in Columbus, and
    > the predominant local carrier for both areas, SBC, gets more than they
    > deserve. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the Midwest they
    > provide the most godawful service imaginable, they lie, they grease
    > politcians' palms more than any company on earth, they try to sabotage
    > other local carriers, and on and on. Believe me, I shed no tears for
    > them and did somersaults of joy when I was able to switch to a new
    > local carrier a few years ago (though SBC did all they could to make
    > the switch as difficult as possible).
    >
    > And based on thunder's followup post, it looks like the Ohio wireless
    > tarriffs aren't as high as we thought, anyway.
    >
    >
    >>Seriously - don't bother asking someone in a call center that probably isn't
    >>even in the same state as you are, what your taxes are going to be. They
    >>won't be able to answer accurately.
    >
    >
    > Maybe...but if the local taxes, etc. are all in the computer, it
    > doesn't seem like coming up with an estimation program would be hard.
    > Regardless, at least they could just say "somewhere between 10% and
    > 30% depending on where you live", as Verizon's sales brochure does
    > (just noticed that this morning). Of course, that's a pretty wide
    > spread so this wouldn't be too helpful in estimating costs.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Jerome Zelinske <jeromez1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<4S8Jc.2832$Qu5.178@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
    > I live in Milwaukee which is also served by sbc. I don't think
    > switching, if it can really be called that, to metrocom or someone else,
    > is an option, because nobody but sbc has switching equipment and wires
    > running to homes and businesses. All the "competing" carriers are
    > leasing line/time from sbc. Sbc would still be making money off of me.
    > As soon as someone else spends the money and puts up their own network
    > of wires/switches/co so I can get my dsl without having to have a sbc
    > line and at a competitive price, then I will switch.

    But I still get the satisfaction of seeing SBC lose at least some of
    their revenue. I keep getting, "we'll give you $100 to switch get
    back" cards in the mail from them, and they get tossed. Also, I don't
    have to deal with CS reps like the one who started acting very
    frustrated because I wouldn't buy an add-on service after I called
    with an unrelated question ("Oh, I couldn't LIVE without Linebacker in
    MY home!" she exclaimed.) I bought nothing, but then suddenly another
    service which I hadn't even discussed with this idiot ("Talking Call
    Waiting") magically appeared on my line a few days later, and when I
    discovered it and they *finally* removed it, they said they couldn't
    give me full credit for the installation or days that I'd that had
    service which I NEVER ORDERED AND NEVER WANTED! Another SBC rep later
    admitted to me that this kind of thing (someone within the company
    adding a service you didn.t request) does happen. But he's the one
    who also refused to give me full credit!


    I cringed every time I'd have to call SBC about something because
    they'd put on an oppressive hard-sell for new service. Truly
    obnoxious, even though SOME of their reps at least seemed competent.
    MCI, OTOH, NEVER gives me the hard-sell (which isn't to say I haven't
    had any problems with them, but many were really SBC-dependent because
    of the dependency you cite). Fortunately I got MCI local awhile ago,
    because I believe they might require bundling with their long distance
    now, which I don't want. No offense intended on the personal level to
    *some* good (and even highly skilled) folks who are unfortunate to
    have to work for this kind of company, but SBC is corporate scum (and
    I am definitely not an anti-capitalist, in case anyone's assuming
    that). Even the fact that they moved their headquarters from their
    longtime home of St. Louis to San Antonio just because that's where
    their new CEO wanted to live is annoying. (Of course, a different
    excuse was given for the move).

    Also, a year or two ago, Illinois citizens learned that, "in the
    stealth of the night" while no one was looking, SBC had managed to get
    the state legislature to pass a line-lease price increase that would
    have essentially driven other local competitors out of business. It
    all happened in a blink of an eye, and with our illustrious governor's
    approval. I'm sure many palms were heavily greased on this one.
    Fortunately, an honest judge (yes, there ARE at least a few of those
    around Chicago) put the kabosh on this travesty and sent poor little
    SBC off whining about about they can't make enough money (aw, gee,
    sniff, sniff, and a MAJOR lie to boot). BTW, Ameritech, which had
    been the main carrier hereabouts, was pretty awful too (though things
    have gotten a lot worse since the takeover by SBC, despite pre-merger
    assurances to the contrary). But I had appreciated Ameritech's
    highly-advertised move to 24-hour customer service. Of course,
    shortly after the SBC takeover they were back to even SHORTER hours
    than they had had before. I can reach MCI much later in the day if
    there's a problem.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:
    > service which I NEVER ORDERED AND NEVER WANTED! Another SBC rep later
    > admitted to me that this kind of thing (someone within the company
    > adding a service you didn.t request) does happen. But he's the one
    > who also refused to give me full credit!

    That's when you call the state PUC and file a complaint, or in Ohio's case,
    you can file online and they'll contact you back in a week or so (Ohio's
    cool that way), and you complain to the FCC because they're cramming you.
    (Slamming is the switching of your service without your consent. Cramming is
    the adding of services without your consent.)

    > I cringed every time I'd have to call SBC about something because
    > they'd put on an oppressive hard-sell for new service. Truly
    > obnoxious, even though SOME of their reps at least seemed competent.

    To bring this partially back on-topic, I get upsold every time I call Sprint
    PCS. Usually it's Sprint 50 at Home (the long distance plan I already have
    on my line), but lately it's been the $15 unlimited long-distance plan
    (which I don't need - the only reason we were up to $17 last month on our
    Sprint LD bill is because I didn't have a cell phone to use to make LD calls).

    I wish they had some kind of record that I already HAVE Sprint Long Distance,
    but they only ask once, and when I say no, they don't push the issue.

    > MCI

    Yuck.

    > Also, a year or two ago, Illinois citizens learned that, "in the
    > stealth of the night" while no one was looking, SBC had managed to get
    > the state legislature to pass a line-lease price increase that would
    > have essentially driven other local competitors out of business. It
    > all happened in a blink of an eye, and with our illustrious governor's
    > approval. I'm sure many palms were heavily greased on this one.

    This comes as no surprise...

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<UKWdnZK8wf8TOWjdRVn_iw@lmi.net>...
    > Rick <probabilities@email.com> wrote:
    > > service which I NEVER ORDERED AND NEVER WANTED! Another SBC rep later
    > > admitted to me that this kind of thing (someone within the company
    > > adding a service you didn.t request) does happen. But he's the one
    > > who also refused to give me full credit!
    >
    > That's when you call the state PUC and file a complaint, or in Ohio's case,
    > you can file online and they'll contact you back in a week or so (Ohio's
    > cool that way), and you complain to the FCC because they're cramming you.
    > (Slamming is the switching of your service without your consent. Cramming is
    > the adding of services without your consent.)

    Sounds like Ohio acts quicker than Illinois. I do know Ohio's levied
    some big fines against SBC for poor service over the past few years
    (despite continued promises that they'll improve), and I seem to
    recall (not positive) that Ohio was about the last state to approve
    the Ameritech-SBC merger a few years ago.
    >
    > > I cringed every time I'd have to call SBC about something because
    > > they'd put on an oppressive hard-sell for new service. Truly
    > > obnoxious, even though SOME of their reps at least seemed competent.
    >
    > To bring this partially back on-topic, I get upsold every time I call Sprint
    > PCS. Usually it's Sprint 50 at Home (the long distance plan I already have
    > on my line), but lately it's been the $15 unlimited long-distance plan
    > (which I don't need - the only reason we were up to $17 last month on our
    > Sprint LD bill is because I didn't have a cell phone to use to make LD calls).
    >
    > I wish they had some kind of record that I already HAVE Sprint Long Distance,
    > but they only ask once, and when I say no, they don't push the issue.

    Yeah, that last part is the big difference.

    > > MCI
    >
    > Yuck.

    Yeah, I was not historically a fan of MCI (I have stories), but even
    *their* local service seems stellar compared to SBC. And they *never*
    tried to upsell me until recently -- and that's in a very gentle,
    non-pushy manner.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message news:6fdfe3c2.0407141139.3705f126@posting.google.com...
    > I bought nothing, but then suddenly another
    > service which I hadn't even discussed with this idiot ("Talking Call
    > Waiting") magically appeared on my line a few days later, and when I
    > discovered it and they *finally* removed it, they said they couldn't
    > give me full credit for the installation or days that I'd that had
    > service which I NEVER ORDERED AND NEVER WANTED! Another SBC rep later
    > admitted to me that this kind of thing (someone within the company
    > adding a service you didn.t request) does happen. But he's the one
    > who also refused to give me full credit!

    Did you complain to your state PUC? I would have.

    --

    John Richards
  22. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

    "John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<VmhJc.927$Yx4.176@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>...
    > "Rick" <probabilities@email.com> wrote in message news:6fdfe3c2.0407141139.3705f126@posting.google.com...
    > > I bought nothing, but then suddenly another
    > > service which I hadn't even discussed with this idiot ("Talking Call
    > > Waiting") magically appeared on my line a few days later, and when I
    > > discovered it and they *finally* removed it, they said they couldn't
    > > give me full credit for the installation or days that I'd that had
    > > service which I NEVER ORDERED AND NEVER WANTED! Another SBC rep later
    > > admitted to me that this kind of thing (someone within the company
    > > adding a service you didn.t request) does happen. But he's the one
    > > who also refused to give me full credit!
    >
    > Did you complain to your state PUC? I would have.

    Nope. I probably should have, but that was just about the time
    alternate local service became available, so I just switched and let
    them savor their ill-gotten $3.47.

    Fyi, I *did* file a complaint with the Illinois Commerce Commission
    against MCI a few months ago, but I believe that problem was borne of
    incompetence, not SBC-type purposeful dishonesty or overcharging.
    Besides, I think they were probably partly dependent on SBC for
    getting this fixed. About five weeks after the claim was filed, I got
    a call from someone at MCI saying he had just received the complaint
    (guess they're a lot slower than Ohio's PUCO), but the problem had
    already been fixed awhile before that.
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