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Anonymous
February 17, 2005 11:31:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
fun.

Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?

Paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 1:39:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 17 Feb 2005 20:31:58 -0800, "LightningRod" <paul@scorestudio.com>
wrote:

>So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
>equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
>bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
>flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
>times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
>store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
>repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
>equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
>question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
>little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
>kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
>says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
>2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
>rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
>fun.
>
>Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?

Never shop there again... and tell him.

Al
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 2:12:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"LightningRod" <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote in message
news:1108701118.826166.191580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
> fun.
>
> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?

He's being a dickhead. He never completed his end of the bargain, which was
to sell you something that worked. There's a difference between never
working properly and breaking down. You probably have local laws that allow
you a complete refund in that case.

I like to shop at the smaller stores and pay a little extra just so they
stay in business. It's worth the extra money to know you'll get good service
and harder to find equipment. This guy's a fool to piss off a good customer.
Related resources
February 18, 2005 5:37:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1108701118.826166.191580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
LightningRod <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote:

> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
> fun.
>
> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
>
> Paul


I'da bought it with a credit card and told him I was calling the credit
card company for a full credit if he wasn't gonna do it, as the
mechandise was defective.

Years ago, I bought a new Mac from a company far away from here. After
running a diagnostic on it, I found it had a lot of hours on it
already. The company, which was also a small company, wouldn't cop to
it over the phone. But my credit card company had no problem making me
happy.

If you didn't use a credit card, call your state's Office of the
Attorney General and ask for the consumer affairs department and find
out exactly what your state law is. In Rhode Island, they are great to
deal with and def on the little guy's side.

Good luck!




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:16:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Really good advice everyone. Thanks. I feel a little better. :-)
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:08:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

LightningRod wrote:
> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
> fun.
>
> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
>
> Paul
>

I would have discussed the return policy before purchase
If your not getting satisfaction though contact the mfgs rep or customer
service at the factory , they may authorize something that the local
dealer is hesitant to do
George
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:17:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

George Gleason wrote:
> LightningRod wrote:
>
>> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
>> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
>> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
>> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
>> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
>> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
>> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
>> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
>> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
>> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
>> kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
>> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
>> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
>> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
>> fun.
>>
>> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
>>
>> Paul
>
> If your not getting satisfaction though contact the mfgs rep or customer
> service at the factory , they may authorize something that the local
> dealer is hesitant to do
> George

you can easily find this information at the mfgrs web site
George
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:13:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

LightningRod wrote:
> Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college.

I'm not sure where you're located, but in many states it doesn't matter
what the store policy is, *if* the item is defective. Even in states
where they don't have to refund your money if the item is defective,
they probably have to post that policy somewhere prominent or it doesn't
apply.

And regardless of what the law is, it's unreasonable not to just give you
100% of your money back if that's what you want. Not to mention being
bad business, since stores generally don't want customers to be afraid
to shop there.

> Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
> fun.

Now that's got to be illegal, or at least it seems really likely it is.
The government can't be charging tax on a sale that has been voided,
and if the government isn't charging the tax, he certainly shouldn't
be keeping it.

I would investigate the laws in your state. There may be a state
consumer affairs office or something with a toll-free number you
could call. If you find out he's acted improperly, you could go back
and tell him nicely but firmly that you want your money back, and if
he still refuses, then tell him you think it'll be a lot easier for
both of you if you don't have to complain to [name of state agency]
in order to get him to meet his legal obligations.

At least that's what I'd do.

- Logan
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:23:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I don't want to give the name away b/c I'd rather not put either the
guitar store or the amp manufacturer in a bad light. The guitar store
b/c even though I'm upset now, a year from now I might be very much
over this and want some vintage amp at that shop.

The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems). Now,
I can't say that its 'broken' but thats quite a design flaw. I think
the way the store owner sees it is that its not actually 'broken' so I
just don't want it.

I think I'm just angry b/c now I have my money tied up in a store that
at least at the moment I don't want anything from. I supposed I can
take a few deep breaths, relax and know there will always be something
I want... maybe not now... but sometime.

paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:47:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

LightningRod wrote:
> I don't want to give the name away b/c I'd rather not put either the
> guitar store or the amp manufacturer in a bad light. The guitar store
> b/c even though I'm upset now, a year from now I might be very much
> over this and want some vintage amp at that shop.
>
> The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
> trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems).
Now,
> I can't say that its 'broken' but thats quite a design flaw. I think
> the way the store owner sees it is that its not actually 'broken' so
I
> just don't want it.
>
> I think I'm just angry b/c now I have my money tied up in a store
that
> at least at the moment I don't want anything from. I supposed I can
> take a few deep breaths, relax and know there will always be
something
> I want... maybe not now... but sometime.
>
> paul

Another alternative is to contact the store owner and explain that A)
the amp had a design flaw, which is certainly not your fault and B)
that in the heat of the moment, you agreed to the store credit but C)
now you've changed your mind and realized that you won't accept
anything but a full refund. If the store doesn't do the same thing to
the amp manufacturer then that's the store's problem, and shouldn't be
yours. Armed with the info that others in the thread have suggested you
get from local sources, you should be able to leverage what you want
from this dealer. If they don't play ball, they're idiots. Even still,
as suggested above, you should be able to have the CC company intervene
on your behalf.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:49:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

LightningRod wrote:

> I don't want to give the name away b/c I'd rather not put either the
> guitar store or the amp manufacturer in a bad light. The guitar store
> b/c even though I'm upset now, a year from now I might be very much
> over this and want some vintage amp at that shop.
>
> The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
> trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems).
Now,
> I can't say that its 'broken' but thats quite a design flaw. I think
> the way the store owner sees it is that its not actually 'broken' so
I
> just don't want it.

The fact that a piece of equipment has a critical
design flaw is wholly appropriate for discussion
in the group as well as the level of customer service
the manufacturer is willing to provide.
Something obviously needs to be done to make it
right because there's nothing worse than showing up
for a gig or session with an amp (or any piece or
gear) that's not working.

> I think I'm just angry b/c now I have my money tied up in a store
that
> at least at the moment I don't want anything from.

You have every right to be. If you reveal the model
of amp you might help someone else avoid a similar
ordeal and prompt the manufacturer to make some
revision. A problem with one item in a line of gear
doesn't mean everthing they make is bad unless it's
the only piece they have. Then he does have a problem.

> I supposed I can
> take a few deep breaths, relax and know there will always be
something
> I want... maybe not now... but sometime.
>
> paul

Let us know the outcome.
good luck
rd
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 12:36:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1108701118.826166.191580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> paul@scorestudio.com writes:

> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it.

OK, what was it? Something we've heard of and that you could have
bought anywhere, or something that's unique to this shop as you
suggest? If you're talking about a SansAmp or a Pod or a V-whatever,
then, yes, he's either being a dickhead or he's a very small shop and
can't afford to stock replacements. But if this "recording amp" is
something built by a little company (someone working in the back of
the guitar shop?) who can't afford to replace the unit but will take
the time to make it right, then I think you should give him a chance
to fix it. After all, you decided that you wanted to own it based on
something that appealed to you. You probably still want it for that
reason. You deserve it. Get it fixed.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 3:37:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"LightningRod" <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote in message
news:1108701118.826166.191580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
but quite frankly I'm a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college.

You sounded like a "lifer" and their the best client , the store was a
fool.
I'm thinking/trying of opening a store so I need to read messages like
yours, thank you

Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 4:03:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Usually store policy for boutique guitar shops is "all sales final" on
vintage amps and guitars due to the inherent imperfections that almost
always exist with used gear. But having an "all sales final" on new
gear is definitely weird.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

LightningRod wrote:
> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store. I
> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had a
> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece of
> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before the
> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
> fun.
>
> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
>
> Paul
>
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 4:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Fair enough.

Its the nano amp by zvex. Its a nice little 1/2 watt amp that is touted
as the smallest tube amp. I can play it through my cabinets and quite
frankly it sounds very nice for recording. But its not cheap and for
the price it should work all the time.

God, every time I think about this mess it pisses me off.

Paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 4:19:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

thanks,

you know I called my credit card company, and strangely they said I
didn't have a lot of recourse. If its store policy its store policy.

I did have an idea. Maybe I'll go in and try out guitars. One by one by
one by one by one by one........
then the amps
then the kazoos

Hey I might find something I like... eventually. :-)
Paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 4:45:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Since your amp woks as advertised:

http://zvexamps.com/amp_view.html

"Your Nano perfers a startup temperature of 65 degrees F (18 degrees C)
or more. If it is cold, the unit may have difficulty starting. Warm it
up first! You may wish to store it somewhere warm, like near a radiator
or by some gear that's always on."

and since the shop owner won't refund your money, why don't you just
keep it? It's still a cool thing. And it does what you want provided
you keep it warm enough at startup. There's nothing to get too upset
about here. So, relax man!

Best regards,
Joe
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 5:38:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the info. I was looking at that little amp but decided it
was overpriced, the other thing that put me off about it was what you
have to go thru to change out the tube.

I don't recall reading that it's operation was
temperature-dependent... that's a real PITA.

Al

On 18 Feb 2005 13:08:06 -0800, "LightningRod" <paul@scorestudio.com>
wrote:

>Fair enough.
>
>Its the nano amp by zvex. Its a nice little 1/2 watt amp that is touted
>as the smallest tube amp. I can play it through my cabinets and quite
>frankly it sounds very nice for recording. But its not cheap and for
>the price it should work all the time.
>
>God, every time I think about this mess it pisses me off.
>
>Paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 5:45:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on wrote:


> I don't recall reading that it's operation was
> temperature-dependent... that's a real PITA.


That's an awfully high minimum-temp spec, I wonder what the designer did
wrong. Or what else they did wrong.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 6:21:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1108740191.854228.259820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
paul@scorestudio.com says...
> The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
> trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems). Now,
> I can't say that its 'broken' but thats quite a design flaw. I think
> the way the store owner sees it is that its not actually 'broken' so I
> just don't want it.

Depending what state you're in, that may still be "broken". The
Universal Commercial Code has the concept of an "implied warranty of
fitness for a particular purpose" - that is, that the thing does what
it's supposed to do in a reasonably effective and reasonably safe
manner. A guitar amp that doesn't reproduce sound under normal
conditions would violate that warranty.

Unfortunately, most explicit warranties void the implied warranty.
Fortunately, in some states, like Massachusetts, you CAN'T void that
warranty unless you post the sale as "AS-IS" seventeen different ways.
Find out your local laws.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 6:52:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jim Carr wrote:

> I like to shop at the smaller stores and pay a little extra just so they
> stay in business. It's worth the extra money to know you'll get good service
> and harder to find equipment. This guy's a fool to piss off a good customer.

Right on. Where I used to buy due to good service even though they
charge more no longer seems interested in good service. It's about 250
miles round trip even to that store. When I can get ten times better
service from somebody via email, guess where I buy?

--
ha
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:02:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:23:11 -0800, LightningRod wrote:

> I don't want to give the name away b/c I'd rather not put either the
> guitar store or the amp manufacturer in a bad light. The guitar store
> b/c even though I'm upset now, a year from now I might be very much
> over this and want some vintage amp at that shop.
>
> The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
> trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems). Now,
> I can't say that its 'broken' but thats quite a design flaw. I think
> the way the store owner sees it is that its not actually 'broken' so I
> just don't want it.
>
> I think I'm just angry b/c now I have my money tied up in a store that
> at least at the moment I don't want anything from. I supposed I can
> take a few deep breaths, relax and know there will always be something
> I want... maybe not now... but sometime.

It may not be the first time someone has bought that amp from the store,
and returned it.
Sometimes, if the store can't find a problem with a returned item, they
just put it back on sale, till a more tolerant customer comes along.
I'd get them to swap it for another of the same model and see if it still
acts funny.


>
> paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:02:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:02:03 GMT, philicorda
<philicorda@localhost.com> wrote:

>It may not be the first time someone has bought that amp from the store,
>and returned it.
>Sometimes, if the store can't find a problem with a returned item, they
>just put it back on sale, till a more tolerant customer comes along.

This *definitely* happens with online sales.

Al
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 7:59:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm going to go in tomorrow morning and ask for my money back, now that
I believe I've got a little more consumer ammo. If he says no, count on
seeing the company name here at this thread.

Paul
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:45:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>Thanks for the info. I was looking at that little amp but decided it
>was overpriced, the other thing that put me off about it was what you
>have to go thru to change out the tube.

What, is it a single tube? One of those goofy vertical drive TV tubes
with a power pentode and a triode in the same envelope?

And let me guess, the power comes from a little switching supply, and
it doesn't kickstart properly at low temperatures? That should be an
easy ECO.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:24:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay Levitt" <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c80186a86ef4fc898988e@news-east.giganews.com...

> Unfortunately, most explicit warranties void the implied warranty.
> Fortunately, in some states, like Massachusetts, you CAN'T void that
> warranty unless you post the sale as "AS-IS" seventeen different ways.
> Find out your local laws.

You can't void what's law by statute unless that statute says you can. So,
yes, an as-is sale is different, but on a normal sale the buyer can't take
away what the government gives you.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 11:52:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1108760885.976116.222990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> paul@scorestudio.com writes:

> Its the nano amp by zvex. Its a nice little 1/2 watt amp that is touted
> as the smallest tube amp.

Oh, yeah. I remember seeing those at NAMM. It says right in the
instructions:

"Your Nano perfers a startup temperature of 65 degrees F (18 degrees C)
or more. If it is cold, the unit may have difficulty starting. Warm it
up first! You may wish to store it somewhere warm, like near a
radiator or by some gear that's always on.

Use only with 12 volt power supply included with unit, or a 12 volt
lead-acid battery capable of supplying 1.5 amps for startup current.
Unit draws .5 amps while operating but needs more current to start."

I keep my house pretty cool during the winter (last month's gas bill
was $350) but it's still mighty uncomfortable when it gets below 65.
Maybe it's my age. I wouldn't think this would be a hardship. Still,
it's kind of unusual. Apparently they use a DC-DC converter in there
for the plate voltage. A great idea if you want to use it on the
street or in your car. Not likely that they'll ever change the design,
though if yours needs to be up around 75 degrees to start, the
manufacturer can probably fix that so that it works like they say it
does. Give 'em a chance.

The dealer is being kind of a jerk by not allowing you to return it,
but you can't say you weren't warned.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:52:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 18 Feb 2005 17:45:21 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>And let me guess, the power comes from a little switching supply, and
>it doesn't kickstart properly at low temperatures?

Bingo.

Chris Hornbeck
"Loved him; hated her." -Danny Kaye on the Himalaya's
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 2:54:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-02-18, Edward Bridge <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote:

> You sounded like a "lifer" and their the best client , the store was a
> fool.

Some fools take longer than others to be parted from their money.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 2:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-02-18, LightningRod <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote:

> The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
> trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems).

Ok, now, I'm trying to figure out how one would even design a circuit to
perform poorly at low temperatures. You say it doesn't even power on?

Why do you think you're protecting them by withholding the name? You
could be putting us at risk. But something tells me it ain't Fender.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 2:56:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

NanoAmp by ZVek if you read the thread....a switching power supply.

james of tucson wrote:
> On 2005-02-18, LightningRod <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The thing is I contacted the amp builder and he said it would have
>>trouble working at lower tempatures. (and sometimes normal tems).
>
>
> Ok, now, I'm trying to figure out how one would even design a circuit to
> perform poorly at low temperatures. You say it doesn't even power on?
>
> Why do you think you're protecting them by withholding the name? You
> could be putting us at risk. But something tells me it ain't Fender.
>
>
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 11:28:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1108774749.380111.159940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
LightningRod <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote:
>I'm going to go in tomorrow morning and ask for my money back, now that
>I believe I've got a little more consumer ammo. If he says no, count on
>seeing the company name here at this thread.

I'd also go to the manufacturer and demand they fix it. Designing a
switching supply that starts reliably isn't all that hard a thing...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:20:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <1108774749.380111.159940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> LightningRod <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm going to go in tomorrow morning and ask for my money back, now that
>>I believe I've got a little more consumer ammo. If he says no, count on
>>seeing the company name here at this thread.
>
>
> I'd also go to the manufacturer and demand they fix it. Designing a
> switching supply that starts reliably isn't all that hard a thing...
> --scott
>

I am at a bit of a loss here
I gather by "start" you mean it won't turn on
I have LOTS of gear with switching power supply that I keep in my truck
at well below zero
I plug them in , hit the power button and they work
every time
what is it that makes it "not start" and how does the cold effect that
and am I lucky or are my powersofts and qsc powerlight amps just
designed a bit better so this doesn't happen
is this something I should be looking at when spending a few grand on a amp?
george
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:20:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

George Gleason <g.p.gleason@att.net> wrote:
>
>I am at a bit of a loss here
>I gather by "start" you mean it won't turn on
>I have LOTS of gear with switching power supply that I keep in my truck
>at well below zero
>I plug them in , hit the power button and they work
>every time
>what is it that makes it "not start" and how does the cold effect that
>and am I lucky or are my powersofts and qsc powerlight amps just
>designed a bit better so this doesn't happen

They are designed better. If you look on the Linear Technology web site
you will find an applications note called "Switching supplies for poets"
or something similar. It's well worth reading if you want to know how
these things work.

Basically, most of the internal voltages that run the switching supply
come off of the outputs of the supply... so they cannot run the supply
until it's already running. Sometimes just plugging the thing in gets
enough of a spike through the transformer to provide enough voltage to
get it working momentarily. With other designs, this won't work and a
"kickstart" circuit is needed to fire the thing off the first time it is
turned on.

This sounds to me like a supply with a badly-designed or missing kickstart
circuit. This is a very easy design change, and it's one of the more
fundamental things to switcher design.

>is this something I should be looking at when spending a few grand on a amp?

No, it's something that is so basic and obvious that you should never need
to worry about it.

BUT, occasionally you will find power supplies with bad kickstart circuits,
where you have to flip the switch several times to get it to kick on. This
is a common failure mode for PC power supplies. It's an easy thing to fix,
too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:20:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Trevor de Clercq wrote:
> He's not a tube amp guru. He's a pedal builder. Big difference.
>
> These days, if your pedal turns the guitar signal into a square wave the
> kids think you are an electrical genius. Add a nice paint job and wacky
> product name, and you've got a business.

Sounds like 1976.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:24:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hello Paul (Lightningrod),

i'm sorry to hear how this has turned out. please contact me directly
at the email address on this page:

http://zvex.com/email.html

i'd like to work this out to your satisfaction.

thanks!

zachary vex
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:28:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <QWHRd.55322$Th1.25364@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> g.p.gleason@att.net writes:

> I am at a bit of a loss here
> I gather by "start" you mean it won't turn on
> I have LOTS of gear with switching power supply that I keep in my truck
> at well below zero

> is this something I should be looking at when spending a few grand on a amp?

Apparently someone has discovered a way to make something
incompetently and consider it OK by warning his customers that it
might not work all the time. I concur with Scott that it should not be
sold if the design can't be corrected. Even with a warning, it's easy
to miss, as apparently Paul had. Frankly, if I wanted the amplifer and
had read that warning, I'd have bought it anyway, trusting that I
could deal with it, but still, it makes one wonder what other corners
might have been cut that we (or the builder) haven't discovered yet.

I suspect that in an attempt to make a tiny package, the designer used
a minimal switching power supply design from an application note
rather than using that as a starting point and making it work under
all expected conditions. For a few more cubic inches and a few more
bucks he could have used a conventional power suppply with a power
transformer. But then he'd not be connecting it to a low voltage
source and would need CE approval to sell it most places.

There are some things that we know to expect not to work right out of
the truck when brought in from sub-zero temperatures - an LCD, for
instance, tends to be a bit sluggish when cold (though newer designs
may have solved this problem), and rotary head recorders don't work
with moisture condensed on the heads, but there's no excuse for a
power supply not to start.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:30:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hello Paul (Lightningrod),


i'm sorry to hear how this has turned out. please contact me directly

at the email address on this page:


http://zvex.com/email.html


i'd like to work this out to your satisfaction.


thanks!


zachary vex
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:36:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

dear Scott,

very interesting comments. please feel free to contact me at the email
address on this page if you wish to discuss the inner workings of the
nano. 8^)

http://zvex.com/email.html

thanks!

zachary vex
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:33:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> George Gleason <g.p.gleason@att.net> wrote:
>
>>I am at a bit of a loss here
>>I gather by "start" you mean it won't turn on
>>I have LOTS of gear with switching power supply that I keep in my truck
>>at well below zero
>>I plug them in , hit the power button and they work
>>every time
>>what is it that makes it "not start" and how does the cold effect that
>>and am I lucky or are my powersofts and qsc powerlight amps just
>>designed a bit better so this doesn't happen
>
>
> They are designed better. If you look on the Linear Technology web site
> you will find an applications note called "Switching supplies for poets"
> or something similar. It's well worth reading if you want to know how
> these things work.
>
> Basically, most of the internal voltages that run the switching supply
> come off of the outputs of the supply... so they cannot run the supply
> until it's already running. Sometimes just plugging the thing in gets
> enough of a spike through the transformer to provide enough voltage to
> get it working momentarily. With other designs, this won't work and a
> "kickstart" circuit is needed to fire the thing off the first time it is
> turned on.
>
> This sounds to me like a supply with a badly-designed or missing kickstart
> circuit. This is a very easy design change, and it's one of the more
> fundamental things to switcher design.
>
>
>>is this something I should be looking at when spending a few grand on a amp?
>
>
> No, it's something that is so basic and obvious that you should never need
> to worry about it.
>
> BUT, occasionally you will find power supplies with bad kickstart circuits,
> where you have to flip the switch several times to get it to kick on. This
> is a common failure mode for PC power supplies. It's an easy thing to fix,
> too.
> --scott

Thanks Scott
I really don't know much about the internal of my gear
I be a bit smartered now
:-)
G
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:53:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

And that old stuff is now going for crazy money on eBay.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

Kurt Albershardt wrote:
> Trevor de Clercq wrote:
>
>> He's not a tube amp guru. He's a pedal builder. Big difference.
>>
>> These days, if your pedal turns the guitar signal into a square wave
>> the kids think you are an electrical genius. Add a nice paint job and
>> wacky product name, and you've got a business.
>
>
> Sounds like 1976.
>
>
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 11:20:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey Zak. You know I really am not feeling any ill will at all toward
you or your products. In fact, I've spent some time at my local store
checking out your products (especially the seek trem and seek wah). I
must say, thats some really wonderful stuff. I watched that video about
the nano amp about 20 times before I bought it. (maybe more). Its
diverse in tones and through my cabinet sounded powerful.

Frankly I'm more upset at the person who sold it to me. The last thing
I wanted to do was turn this into a zvex rant. If I buy a 400 dollar
suit and the thing has a little yellow stripe that I didn't see when I
bought it, I want the right to bring the f'ing thing back. 400+ dollars
is a lot of money no matter how you slice it and for some store to say
too bad its my money now, it just pisses me off.

Paul




zacharyvex@gmail.com wrote:
> hello Paul (Lightningrod),
>
>
> i'm sorry to hear how this has turned out. please contact me
directly
>
> at the email address on this page:
>
>
> http://zvex.com/email.html
>
>
> i'd like to work this out to your satisfaction.
>
>
> thanks!
>
>
> zachary vex
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 12:47:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I got this message from Zak. (i hope you don't mind me posting this
Zak)

Now thats why I wasn't complaining about Zak. the only down side is I'm
sure the guy who runs the store isn't going to go for it.

Paul

>let me know who the dealer was, and i'll contact them and tell them
>that i'll take the unit back and give them a new one in exchange, if
>they'll return your money. i can examine that unit at my leisure
>then... maybe i'll learn something. 8^)
>
>thanks!
>


LightningRod wrote:
> Hey Zak. You know I really am not feeling any ill will at all toward
> you or your products. In fact, I've spent some time at my local store
> checking out your products (especially the seek trem and seek wah). I
> must say, thats some really wonderful stuff. I watched that video
about
> the nano amp about 20 times before I bought it. (maybe more). Its
> diverse in tones and through my cabinet sounded powerful.
>
> Frankly I'm more upset at the person who sold it to me. The last
thing
> I wanted to do was turn this into a zvex rant. If I buy a 400 dollar
> suit and the thing has a little yellow stripe that I didn't see when
I
> bought it, I want the right to bring the f'ing thing back. 400+
dollars
> is a lot of money no matter how you slice it and for some store to
say
> too bad its my money now, it just pisses me off.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> zacharyvex@gmail.com wrote:
> > hello Paul (Lightningrod),
> >
> >
> > i'm sorry to hear how this has turned out. please contact me
> directly
> >
> > at the email address on this page:
> >
> >
> > http://zvex.com/email.html
> >
> >
> > i'd like to work this out to your satisfaction.
> >
> >
> > thanks!
> >
> >
> > zachary vex
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 7:34:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1108921658.406757.214770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> paul@scorestudio.com writes:

> I got this message from Zak. (i hope you don't mind me posting this
> Zak)
>
> Now thats why I wasn't complaining about Zak. the only down side is I'm
> sure the guy who runs the store isn't going to go for it.

> >let me know who the dealer was, and i'll contact them and tell them
> >that i'll take the unit back and give them a new one in exchange, if
> >they'll return your money. i can examine that unit at my leisure
> >then... maybe i'll learn something. 8^)

It sounds like Zak's trying to do the right thing and make sure that
the dealer isn't stuck with a unit that both you and Zak think may be
out of spec. I can't think of a dealer around here who's that much of
a jerk except Phil at Rolls and they went out of business a year ago.
I hope it isn't the obvious place and things have gone down hill since
Chuck died.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 8:21:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

no, its within a few miles and they specialize in guitars and amps.


Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <1108921658.406757.214770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
paul@scorestudio.com writes:
>
> > I got this message from Zak. (i hope you don't mind me posting
this
> > Zak)
> >
> > Now thats why I wasn't complaining about Zak. the only down side is
I'm
> > sure the guy who runs the store isn't going to go for it.
>
> > >let me know who the dealer was, and i'll contact them and tell
them
> > >that i'll take the unit back and give them a new one in exchange,
if
> > >they'll return your money. i can examine that unit at my leisure
> > >then... maybe i'll learn something. 8^)
>
> It sounds like Zak's trying to do the right thing and make sure that
> the dealer isn't stuck with a unit that both you and Zak think may be
> out of spec. I can't think of a dealer around here who's that much of
> a jerk except Phil at Rolls and they went out of business a year ago.
> I hope it isn't the obvious place and things have gone down hill
since
> Chuck died.
>
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 3:43:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"LightningRod" <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote in message
news:1108701118.826166.191580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
>

Did you get your money back or not? If so, then shutup and quit whining.
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 8:04:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

BigUn wrote:
> "LightningRod" <paul@scorestudio.com> wrote in message
> news:1108701118.826166.191580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
> >
>
> Did you get your money back or not? If so, then shutup and quit
whining.

I didn't and who the f' are you?

Paul
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:48:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'd like to thank Zak at Zvex for coming to my aid. The problem was
solved and as Shakespeare said...'alls well that ends well.' Thanks to
all for the helpful insight.

Peace,

Paul

LightningRod wrote:
> So the other day I was at my local guitar shop. Generally very good
> equipment... stuff thats hard to find at your local big chain store.
I
> bought a recording amp (new) for not too much money but found it had
a
> flaw. It doesn't turn on at lower tempatures. And there were a few
> times when it didn't start at regular temps. Anyway I go back to the
> store (a day later) and the guy says... fine, store credit or I'll
> repair it. Now I'm thinking, uh, I just bought this new broken piece
of
> equipment from you and I think getting my money back isn't out of the
> question. he talks store policy which is fine, but quite frankly I'm
a
> little pissed, especially since I feel like I've put a couple of his
> kids through college. Anyway, to boot as he's returning it to me he
> says something like, "hey I'm returning the tax also b/c its before
the
> 2004 tax season." I'm paraphasing but it was some really off the wall
> rediculous statement like if I returned it he'd keep the tax just for
> fun.
>
> Am I wrong to think this guy is just a dickhead? What would you do?
>
> Paul
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 11:20:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1109220501.247855.12950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> paul@scorestudio.com writes:

> I'd like to thank Zak at Zvex for coming to my aid. The problem was
> solved and as Shakespeare said...'alls well that ends well.' Thanks to
> all for the helpful insight.

It's not clear which problem was solved - that the amplifier didn't
work every time you powered it up, or that the store wouldn't take it
back for a refund.

Do you have a working Zvex amplifier, or a refund, or a free two week
vaction in Hawaii?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!