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Snare micing

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Anonymous
February 20, 2005 6:09:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello.
I have some questions about snare micing. I was recording my band lately
and i encounter a very little problem with a snare. I close miked it with
SM57
trying to position it as away from cymbals (HH) as possible.
Snare is tuned veeery low and it has maaany ovetones. I dealt
with the overtons with some sticking tape. On the recording the tone of the
snare is ok, i had to cut EQ near 200-266 very much (overtones).
And the problem is the snare is veeeery dark, so i add some 'round 5kHz for
attack
and round 9-10 kHz to add brightness to it and ... there they are -
cymbals - especially
HH. Even with compression set to minimum, or even off. So i must
compromise - tone
of the snare or tone and sound of the cymbals. Gating ... well - drum player
plays sometimes
i.e. snare + open HH at one time so not always the best way.

My question is - another mic that will deal with this problem ? I love the
snare tone from SM57 with a
little help from compression and EQ is there something as good, or better :) 
?
Maybe adding a second mic on the "snare", bottom side will give me some
overall "brightness" controll of the sanre
without brighting the cymbals on the main snare mic ? Maybe using some
more-directional mic ?
I saw this clip-on sennheisers - maybe they will deal with the problem ? I
can use some LD maybe (KSM44, MXL 1006,
AKG C414) but i dont think they are less sensitive in this problem then
SM57.

I record mostly on Studio Projects C4's as overheads (i have Royer SF12, but
im selling it - i have now
not to good accustics for this kind of mic and i cant do anything for now
with it :( ((((( ) in ORTF and AKG C414 between
the this 2, SM91 condenser for the kick (outside the drum for the "punch" -
inside it has nice tone, but veeeeery little punch), and
a set of SM57 for toms and snare. Everything is almost perfectly as i want
it to be - only this snare mic problem.

I will be very glad for your help group and sorry for my english ;) 

TIA

More about : snare micing

Anonymous
February 20, 2005 6:09:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

try micing the snare from the side of the drum rather than directly on top.
Set the mic as if you were micing the shell, then reise the mic so it peeks
over the top of the rim. You can also mic the shell as a second mic or mic
underneath.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "hefalump" <hefalumpikWYTNIJ@TOgazeta.pl>
> Organization: tp.internet - http://www.tpi.pl/
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:09:10 +0100
> Subject: Snare micing
>
> Hello.
> I have some questions about snare micing. I was recording my band lately
> and i encounter a very little problem with a snare. I close miked it with
> SM57
> trying to position it as away from cymbals (HH) as possible.
> Snare is tuned veeery low and it has maaany ovetones. I dealt
> with the overtons with some sticking tape. On the recording the tone of the
> snare is ok, i had to cut EQ near 200-266 very much (overtones).
> And the problem is the snare is veeeery dark, so i add some 'round 5kHz for
> attack
> and round 9-10 kHz to add brightness to it and ... there they are -
> cymbals - especially
> HH. Even with compression set to minimum, or even off. So i must
> compromise - tone
> of the snare or tone and sound of the cymbals. Gating ... well - drum player
> plays sometimes
> i.e. snare + open HH at one time so not always the best way.
>
> My question is - another mic that will deal with this problem ? I love the
> snare tone from SM57 with a
> little help from compression and EQ is there something as good, or better :) 
> ?
> Maybe adding a second mic on the "snare", bottom side will give me some
> overall "brightness" controll of the sanre
> without brighting the cymbals on the main snare mic ? Maybe using some
> more-directional mic ?
> I saw this clip-on sennheisers - maybe they will deal with the problem ? I
> can use some LD maybe (KSM44, MXL 1006,
> AKG C414) but i dont think they are less sensitive in this problem then
> SM57.
>
> I record mostly on Studio Projects C4's as overheads (i have Royer SF12, but
> im selling it - i have now
> not to good accustics for this kind of mic and i cant do anything for now
> with it :( ((((( ) in ORTF and AKG C414 between
> the this 2, SM91 condenser for the kick (outside the drum for the "punch" -
> inside it has nice tone, but veeeeery little punch), and
> a set of SM57 for toms and snare. Everything is almost perfectly as i want
> it to be - only this snare mic problem.
>
> I will be very glad for your help group and sorry for my english ;) 
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>
February 20, 2005 8:33:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You may hate this but...
Tune the thing
Try a different drum
Try another.

If these aren;t options then maybe position or another mic, but in general,
the sound is in the drum and that's where it gets fixed.

On 2/19/05 9:09 PM, in article cv8rh4$7bp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl, "hefalump"
<hefalumpikWYTNIJ@TOgazeta.pl> wrote:

> Hello.
> I have some questions about snare micing. I was recording my band lately
> and i encounter a very little problem with a snare. I close miked it with
> SM57
> trying to position it as away from cymbals (HH) as possible.
> Snare is tuned veeery low and it has maaany ovetones. I dealt
> with the overtons with some sticking tape. On the recording the tone of the
> snare is ok, i had to cut EQ near 200-266 very much (overtones).
> And the problem is the snare is veeeery dark, so i add some 'round 5kHz for
> attack
> and round 9-10 kHz to add brightness to it and ... there they are -
> cymbals - especially
> HH. Even with compression set to minimum, or even off. So i must
> compromise - tone
> of the snare or tone and sound of the cymbals. Gating ... well - drum player
> plays sometimes
> i.e. snare + open HH at one time so not always the best way.
>
> My question is - another mic that will deal with this problem ? I love the
> snare tone from SM57 with a
> little help from compression and EQ is there something as good, or better :) 
> ?
> Maybe adding a second mic on the "snare", bottom side will give me some
> overall "brightness" controll of the sanre
> without brighting the cymbals on the main snare mic ? Maybe using some
> more-directional mic ?
> I saw this clip-on sennheisers - maybe they will deal with the problem ? I
> can use some LD maybe (KSM44, MXL 1006,
> AKG C414) but i dont think they are less sensitive in this problem then
> SM57.
>
> I record mostly on Studio Projects C4's as overheads (i have Royer SF12, but
> im selling it - i have now
> not to good accustics for this kind of mic and i cant do anything for now
> with it :( ((((( ) in ORTF and AKG C414 between
> the this 2, SM91 condenser for the kick (outside the drum for the "punch" -
> inside it has nice tone, but veeeeery little punch), and
> a set of SM57 for toms and snare. Everything is almost perfectly as i want
> it to be - only this snare mic problem.
>
> I will be very glad for your help group and sorry for my english ;) 
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:44:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Paul Kurtyka" <pkurtyka@cox.net> wrote in message
news:EJZRd.52409$EG1.44283@lakeread04...
>
> 9) i'd say last resort would be record the snare seperately, maybe putting
a
> practice pad on the snare while the drummer records the rest of the set,
> shrug, just throwin stuff out there. But I don't think this would sound
as
> natural.
>

I'd trigger a snare sound long before I attempted anything like this.

--
tj hertz
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 7:49:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Uzytkownik "John" <ssconmag1@verizon.net> napisal w wiadomosci
news:BE3D8B61.11AE%ssconmag1@verizon.net...
> You may hate this but...
> Tune the thing

* I like the way it sound :) 

> Try a different drum

* I like the way it sound :) 

> Try another.

* I like the way it sound :) 

>
> If these aren;t options then maybe position or another mic, but in
general,
> the sound is in the drum and that's where it gets fixed.
>

* Jup - but the way you hear the snare drum (and the drums at all) is not
exactly the thing
you have in your recording - system containing one pair of speakers is a
stereo - meaning its
three-dimensional but not the way you hear it live. So in conclusion - i
want to have my recording
sound perfectly in recording and sound live is not my prioritee. Of course i
have in mind that
when something sounds like ass of a fine cow, you cant get it sound like a
bird in a bears cave
but the problem is - i have a bird in a bears cave, and i just want to get
this sound on da speakers, jup :) 
I want to know maybe some tips and tricks that will reduce the amount of
time that i (know i will) spend
on finding the right direction.

Thx.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 7:50:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Uzytkownik "Lou Gimenez" <themusiclab@optonline.net> napisal w wiadomosci
news:BE3D9D32.5D35B%themusiclab@optonline.net...
> try micing the snare from the side of the drum rather than directly on
top.
> Set the mic as if you were micing the shell, then reise the mic so it
peeks
> over the top of the rim. You can also mic the shell as a second mic or mic
> underneath.

* I have this thoughts by myself, but i didnt have time to check it. I will
next time.

Thx.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 7:12:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:09:10 +0100, "hefalump"
<hefalumpikWYTNIJ@TOgazeta.pl> wrote:

>I have some questions about snare micing. I was recording my band lately
>and i encounter a very little problem with a snare. I close miked it with
>SM57
>trying to position it as away from cymbals (HH) as possible.
>Snare is tuned veeery low and it has maaany ovetones. I dealt
>with the overtons with some sticking tape. On the recording the tone of the
>snare is ok, i had to cut EQ near 200-266 very much (overtones).
>And the problem is the snare is veeeery dark, so i add some 'round 5kHz for
>attack

So the snare's making a noise you don't like. So tune it to make a
better noise. Or try another snare.

Does the drummer agree with you that his snare is making a lousy
sound? If not, is it your job to modify it?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 7:14:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:49:02 +0100, "hefalump"
<hefalumpikWYTNIJ@TOgazeta.pl> wrote:

>> Tune the thing
>
>* I like the way it sound :) 
>
>> Try a different drum
>
>* I like the way it sound :) 
>
>> Try another.

But you told us in your original post that you DON'T like the way it
sounds :-) You detailed various aspects of its sound, and your
attempts to "correct" them.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
August 3, 2010 11:03:48 AM

If you're using bottom and top mic's, your bottom mic will give you control over brightness. A few things you might want to experiment with if you haven't already:

1) Try rolling off the top end of the top mic to around 9-10 KHz you'll still have the tones of the snare drum and get your crisp, bright sound from the bottom.

2) If you make play the levels of both you should still get the sound you like with out so much HH. When you bring the rest of the drums up in the mix the listener should not notice the HH in the snare channel.

3) Use room mic's - the crack of the snare will sound better there so your bottom mic probably will only need to be low down in the mix for definition or not even needed at all, and the 9-10 KHz roll-off will give you the snare sound you like with very little HH.

I hope this is of some use!

Leigh

!