Crest XR-20 / Midas Venice 160 ergonomics

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<doobashoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Both the Midas 160 and Creat XR20 have come to my attention as possible
>small live consoles that would be good choices. Unfortunately I can't
>get my hands on either of them here (Phoenix). I have visited the past
>threads to see the likes and dislikes of both as far as sound and
>features and I think i am ready to spring for either depending on
>which one comes up affordably. Which one of the two feels smoother,
>more pro, and less toy like, or are they both very good mechanically.
>And what should I expect to pay street price for either. Is the Onyx
>1640 even comparable with them?

They are both okay, and there has been a lot of discussion here comparing
them which you can turn up on a google search. For the most part, the
stubby faders on the Midas are a major annoyance to me, but other than that
either one of the consoles is a joy to use. I like the layout on the Midas
a little more. I like the aux configuration on the Crest a little more.
I don't think you'd really go wrong with either.

I have not used the Onyx yet, but I expect it to be effectively impossible
to repair like the older Mackie consoles. The fact that you can pull a module
out in the field and use the Crest with one channel missing while the board
is being fixed is a big deal. It's still not like the big consoles where
you can pull a module out from the top... you have to pull the console out of
place and pull the back cover off to get the thing apart... but it's still
a big improvement on the all-on-one-board designs like the older Mackies for
long-term maintainability.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

As an owner of both a Soundtracs Solo and a Crest XR20, I wouldn't be
inclined to replace the Soundtracs with the Crest. Wrong application,
although the Crest can be a useful sidecar for the Soundtracs, in my case,
giving me 40 inputs, although I'd only have 36 direct outs and I've have to
use busses 1-4 on the Crest for additional tracks, had I the converters.

Live, the XR20 is a setup pain, but it sounds awfully good. The latter
overshadows the former, and with the Midas, well, George has brought enough
up about the deficiencies to help one make a decision.

BTW, in a live environment I'd never use something like the Soundtracs,
unless it's a Soundtracs LIVE or Monitor, which is different than the Midi
Production Console. The Midi PC is supposed to be in a studio. Take it in,
get it fixed up, buy the Crest, pay the money to get some snakes made to
order for a mixer that is fixed in position, and do the job once. Then it's
a matter of mating up snakes after you roll the unit in. Based on my
research, we're talking close to $1900 for multipin snakes and a rack
mounted unit that's solidly hooked up, but it means about 2 minutes of setup
time vs about 40 per show, at the least. And I mean all ins to stage snakes
or rack mount units, all outs to amps or outboards like compressors. What I
came up with was a 138 multipin connector snake for I/O, and a 68 pin for a
couple of rack mounted TT or 1/4 mil spec patch bays for client requested
units. Probably a bear to wire if you do it yourself and a soldering iron,
but Conquest or ProCo or Horizon will do it for you and the cost equals
savings in setup and breakdown time, believe me.

Even with the stated improvements of the Onyx I cannot say that I believe it
would even be anything close to a comparable piece of equipment with the
Crest. As for the Midas, at least it has a doghouse setup and that makes
things fairly easy for each setup, but my idea with the Crest is simply a
smarter way to go. Even if I do say so myself! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

<doobashoe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108963822.812872.181820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I am looking to update my Soundtracs Midi PC 16 with something more
> quite and new.
> Both the Midas 160 and Creat XR20 have come to my attention as possible
> small live consoles that would be good choices. Unfortunately I can't
> get my hands on either of them here (Phoenix). I have visited the past
> threads to see the likes and dislikes of both as far as sound and
> features and I think i am ready to spring for either depending on
> which one comes up affordably. Which one of the two feels smoother,
> more pro, and less toy like, or are they both very good mechanically.
> And what should I expect to pay street price for either. Is the Onyx
> 1640 even comparable with them?
>
> thanks for any info.
>
> j.myers
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman wrote:
>
> Even with the stated improvements of the Onyx I cannot say that I believe
> it would even be anything close to a comparable piece of equipment with
> the Crest.

The Onyx is less flexible than the Crest in some ways, but has a few nice things of its own (like the multipin direct outs.) It's not as easy to work on, has shorter faders, and doesn't fit in a rack.

OTOH, it's roughly half the price of the Crest (only 1/3rd for the 1620,) and sounds quite good. I haven't compared the sonics with a Crest (surely someone will and we'd all like to know,) but the Onyx is a very clean sounding board and completely outclasses the earlier Mackies.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

As to price, both are more towards $2k. As far as the Soundtracs, I can
understand the need for a smaller footprint, but I won't give mine up, and
headroom is not one of the things I have any problems with. Plus, it's just
plain built for recording. To have the same functionality out of a Crest of
the Midas, well, you just can't do it totally, but you'd have to have two if
you use the console on mixdown. That's obviously up to the way you work,
but I'll generally do a quick reference CD via the console, so all my I/O is
hooked up. I realize it's not necessary, but there also might be times
you'd want that option.

But both the Crest and Midas really do not have any real benefits as a
recording console. With the Crest you have 12 direct outs and then you'd
have to use busses 1-4 for channel strips 13-16. If you're doing that many
tracks. If you just want a really nice console and will only use a few
channel strips at any given time, I'd pick the Crest. But not before I
looked at some inline consoles first, or, in your case, looked at getting
the Soundtracs fixed.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

<doobashoe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109023615.175673.41670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I do intend to be using either the Midas or Crest in the studio as
> apposed to live. The soundtracs midi pc has been fairly decent but I
> find it poor in headroom and less than quiet. It seems to be declining
> and I am not sure if I am ready to invest in it or get something new.
> Plus, I'm trying to make even less of a foot print in my very small
> home facility. Could I be thinking wrong about replacing the Soundtracs
> with either of the live boards. BTW, I don't mind re-patching and such.
> Are the Crest's or Venice 160's available under $1500.
>
> best,
>
> joe myers
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the help. Perhaps I will look into the Onyx 1620. Use it for
tracking and also for my live shows. Keep the Soundtracs around for
mixing and save $1000. For recording, I am usually doing my own
acoustic material and using no more than 4-5 tracks at a time max, so I
figured I may be able to use the Crest/Midas option. Theres a Crest
Xr20 available for $1500 and I supose the Midas would be a bit more.
Could be I just want to buy something new. I always seem to buy vintage
or second hand which gets me some deals and good gear. In the end
though, it's not the car, it's the driver, and if I don't think I'm
getting it done with the Soundtracs I may then "not be getting it done"
with a new Midas. Maybe I'll buy one and see. If it works for my app,
I'm set. If not, I'll sell it.
Thanks for all the advice. Very helpful.

joe myers
http://www.joemyers.net



Roger W. Norman wrote:
> As to price, both are more towards $2k. As far as the Soundtracs, I
can
> understand the need for a smaller footprint, but I won't give mine
up, and
> headroom is not one of the things I have any problems with. Plus,
it's just
> plain built for recording. To have the same functionality out of a
Crest of
> the Midas, well, you just can't do it totally, but you'd have to have
two if
> you use the console on mixdown. That's obviously up to the way you
work,
> but I'll generally do a quick reference CD via the console, so all my
I/O is
> hooked up. I realize it's not necessary, but there also might be
times
> you'd want that option.
>
> But both the Crest and Midas really do not have any real benefits as
a
> recording console. With the Crest you have 12 direct outs and then
you'd
> have to use busses 1-4 for channel strips 13-16. If you're doing
that many
> tracks. If you just want a really nice console and will only use a
few
> channel strips at any given time, I'd pick the Crest. But not before
I
> looked at some inline consoles first, or, in your case, looked at
getting
> the Soundtracs fixed.
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
> http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
>
> <doobashoe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1109023615.175673.41670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > I do intend to be using either the Midas or Crest in the studio as
> > apposed to live. The soundtracs midi pc has been fairly decent but
I
> > find it poor in headroom and less than quiet. It seems to be
declining
> > and I am not sure if I am ready to invest in it or get something
new.
> > Plus, I'm trying to make even less of a foot print in my very small
> > home facility. Could I be thinking wrong about replacing the
Soundtracs
> > with either of the live boards. BTW, I don't mind re-patching and
such.
> > Are the Crest's or Venice 160's available under $1500.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > joe myers
> >

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1109083912k@trad> mrivers@d-and-d.com (that's me!) writes:

> I've pretty much established that there's nothing wrong with my
> Onyx/laptop setup other than that the computer is a Dell and they all
> do that (clicks in the Firewire audio when connected to a LAN).

Well, shiver me timbers! I was moaning about this problem to my dealer
today and he told me that he has a customer who's using a Dell laptop
with an M-Audio Firewire interface for running SMAART, and using the
Ethernet card to talk to his speaker processsor. He, too, was getting
clicks in the audio and cured it by getting an updated driver for the
network interface card.

So I looked up my model on the Dell web site, found an updated driver
for the NIC, installed, it, and the clicks went away.

Goes to show that if there's a computer involved, at some point you're
going to be misled by thinking that there's something wrong with what
you've added, and not what's been working fine all along.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Can't move the slider. His home is in the studio now. I asked Bev when I
picked it up outside after Freckles had somewhat dug it up whether I should
just throw it over the fence into Cadillac Bob's yard, but I succumbed to
it's dire straights, and now it's mine, like it or not! <g> And honestly, I
don't believe it would have survived without my intrusion.

Cats have free reign too. But the building materials I can get rid of.
Give me a couple of days. Tomorrow is cooking school for JnyVee.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1109083912k@trad...
>
> In article <X7CdnVxw982DhobfRVn-oA@rcn.net> rnorman@starpower.net writes:
>
> > I had mentioned to Mike Rivers that maybe he ought to bring the Onyx
over to
> > get his laptop/Onyx setup running right, and it's possible to put both
up
> > and do a test. I still have some things to get out of the way in the
> > studio, like 2X4s and sundry things like the cat tree, but soon the
studio
> > will be functioning again.
>
> I've pretty much established that there's nothing wrong with my
> Onyx/laptop setup other than that the computer is a Dell and they all
> do that (clicks in the Firewire audio when connected to a LAN). But
> when you get the 2x4s, cats, and sliders out of the studio, I'll bring
> it over if you want to compare preamps.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <JLSdnYp06-hRQ4bfRVn-rg@rcn.net> rnorman@starpower.net writes:

> If Mike can make it during the middle of the day, John Vengrouskie and I
> usually have a Weekday Coffee Club meeting, so we can have his good ears
> too. As far as I know, I'm the only one of the three of us that went
> through a war and my hearing isn't as good as a recording engineer's hearing
> should be.

We've all gone through our own wars. Some got guns, some got other
stuff.

Weekdays are good for me.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo