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Batteries for Musicians

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Anonymous
February 22, 2005 2:03:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Hi folks,

a friend of mine who happens to be a world-class drummer has taken a
break from the music biz to start a business to help people find more
energy efficient ways of doing things. i just bought a battery charger
and a bunch of 9v batteries because i go through them like mad with all
my gear. i hope to never buy another battery. anyway, i wanted to
spread the word to other musicians in case you're tired of spending a
lot of dough on batteries and polluting the earth while you're at it.

here's the business url: http://www.goodcommonsense.net.

here's what he says about the batteries:

They are endlessly
rechargable, so they require a slightly new routine.
But these things rock --

1) You buy a couple of batteries and a charger.
2) The charger (2 choices) only charges one 9 volt at
a time.
3) These batteries actually perform BETTER than all
others (rechargables and regular alkalines), longer
performance, stronger charge.
4) You have to keep revolving your recharging.
5) One 9V recharges in an hour while the other is
being used in your pedals, etc.
5) You save - literally - THOUSANDS of DOLLARS because
each battery will give you up to 1,000 full voltage
recharges.
6) No more trips to the battery store for years to
come!

SUMMARY - Instead of buying new batteries every few
weeks, you just keep using these over and over.
Recharging them requires a very small amount of
electricity! Total cost $40 - $100 up front (depending
on how many batteries you get), Total savings:
somewhere in the $1500 per battery range.

-Shiverbones

More about : batteries musicians

Anonymous
February 23, 2005 10:22:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

I would suggest an AC adapter, and quit the hassle. fast_eddie


Shiverbones wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> a friend of mine who happens to be a world-class drummer has taken a
> break from the music biz to start a business to help people find more
> energy efficient ways of doing things. i just bought a battery
charger
> and a bunch of 9v batteries because i go through them like mad with
all
> my gear. i hope to never buy another battery. anyway, i wanted to
> spread the word to other musicians in case you're tired of spending a
> lot of dough on batteries and polluting the earth while you're at it.
>
> here's the business url: http://www.goodcommonsense.net.
>
> here's what he says about the batteries:
>
> They are endlessly
> rechargable, so they require a slightly new routine.
> But these things rock --
>
> 1) You buy a couple of batteries and a charger.
> 2) The charger (2 choices) only charges one 9 volt at
> a time.
> 3) These batteries actually perform BETTER than all
> others (rechargables and regular alkalines), longer
> performance, stronger charge.
> 4) You have to keep revolving your recharging.
> 5) One 9V recharges in an hour while the other is
> being used in your pedals, etc.
> 5) You save - literally - THOUSANDS of DOLLARS because
> each battery will give you up to 1,000 full voltage
> recharges.
> 6) No more trips to the battery store for years to
> come!
>
> SUMMARY - Instead of buying new batteries every few
> weeks, you just keep using these over and over.
> Recharging them requires a very small amount of
> electricity! Total cost $40 - $100 up front (depending
> on how many batteries you get), Total savings:
> somewhere in the $1500 per battery range.
>
> -Shiverbones
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:44:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Shiverbones wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> a friend of mine who happens to be a world-class drummer has taken a
> break from the music biz to start a business to help people find more
> energy efficient ways of doing things. i just bought a battery charger
> and a bunch of 9v batteries because i go through them like mad with all
> my gear. i hope to never buy another battery. anyway, i wanted to
> spread the word to other musicians in case you're tired of spending a
> lot of dough on batteries and polluting the earth while you're at it.
>
> here's what he says about the batteries:
>
> They are endlessly
> rechargable, so they require a slightly new routine.
> But these things rock --
>
> 1) You buy a couple of batteries and a charger.
<<<snip>>>

Not exactly. Rechargable batteries are NOT "endlessly rechargeable".
They take less and less of a charge every time you recharge them. You
can reset them to full capacity by draining them completely dead and
starting over, but they only take that a couple dozen times before they
burn out. Also, rechargable 9v batteries do NOT have more power than
standard batteries. In my experience over the last 30 years using them,
they actually die sooner than alkalines do.

You're right about having one battery charging and another in use saving
money, if you use a club's electricity and not yours at home. The bar
pays for your power, and the power plant still polutes as much or more
than disposable batteries, it's just "out of sight - out of mind".

Good luck with your business.

- JJ
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:18:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Bubba Kahuna wrote ...
> Not exactly. Rechargable batteries are NOT "endlessly rechargeable".
> They take less and less of a charge every time you recharge them. You
> can reset them to full capacity by draining them completely dead and
> starting over, but they only take that a couple dozen times before
> they burn out. Also, rechargable 9v batteries do NOT have more power
> than standard batteries. In my experience over the last 30 years using
> them, they actually die sooner than alkalines do.

And furthermore, many have a lower terminal voltage (like 8.4V)
which will not work with a lot of equipment.
February 24, 2005 1:37:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:

> And furthermore, many have a lower terminal voltage (like 8.4V)
> which will not work with a lot of equipment.

Rechargeables also do not gradually diminish their charge during use.
They tend to perform within spec for a period of time, then drop off
rather quickly. Non-rechargeables diminish more evenly. This can be a
problem with wireless mics, for instance, if you are relying on the
battery fuel gauge to know when to change the battery. With a
rechargeable, you may be running in the green for a while, then suddenly
you're in the red, not having spent any time in yellow.

--
Eric

www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
February 24, 2005 12:15:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

In article <111qlc1avplli93@corp.supernews.com>, rcrowley7@xprt.net
says...
> Bubba Kahuna wrote ...
> > Not exactly. Rechargable batteries are NOT "endlessly rechargeable".
> > They take less and less of a charge every time you recharge them. You
> > can reset them to full capacity by draining them completely dead and
> > starting over, but they only take that a couple dozen times before
> > they burn out. Also, rechargable 9v batteries do NOT have more power
> > than standard batteries. In my experience over the last 30 years using
> > them, they actually die sooner than alkalines do.
>
> And furthermore, many have a lower terminal voltage (like 8.4V)
> which will not work with a lot of equipment.
>
That was my big problem with NiCads; my transmitter shuts
down (or starts distorting really bad) at 7V; those NiCads
are only 7.2V fully charged.
However, there are people making NiMH batteries that are
actually 9.6V fully charged. They also have less of a
"memory" problem (the "less and less of a charge" thing)
than NiCads. I haven't tried them yet, but I may soon. I
like the idea of not having to run to the store on a break...
--
---Michael (of APP)...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/austinpowerplantmusic...
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:11:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

EricK wrote:
> Richard Crowley wrote:
>
>> And furthermore, many have a lower terminal voltage (like 8.4V)
>> which will not work with a lot of equipment.
>
>
> Rechargeables also do not gradually diminish their charge during use.
> They tend to perform within spec for a period of time, then drop off
> rather quickly. Non-rechargeables diminish more evenly. This can be a
> problem with wireless mics, for instance, if you are relying on the
> battery fuel gauge to know when to change the battery. With a
> rechargeable, you may be running in the green for a while, then suddenly
> you're in the red, not having spent any time in yellow.

Metering is indeed a problem. OTOH in sustained high power use, NiMH cells often outperform alkaline disposables.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:37:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

The DC Brick...

--

gcisko@hotmail.com


<red_roostr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109172167.337692.83820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I would suggest an AC adapter, and quit the hassle. fast_eddie
>
>
> Shiverbones wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> a friend of mine who happens to be a world-class drummer has taken a
>> break from the music biz to start a business to help people find more
>> energy efficient ways of doing things. i just bought a battery
> charger
>> and a bunch of 9v batteries because i go through them like mad with
> all
>> my gear. i hope to never buy another battery. anyway, i wanted to
>> spread the word to other musicians in case you're tired of spending a
>> lot of dough on batteries and polluting the earth while you're at it.
>>
>> here's the business url: http://www.goodcommonsense.net.
>>
>> here's what he says about the batteries:
>>
>> They are endlessly
>> rechargable, so they require a slightly new routine.
>> But these things rock --
>>
>> 1) You buy a couple of batteries and a charger.
>> 2) The charger (2 choices) only charges one 9 volt at
>> a time.
>> 3) These batteries actually perform BETTER than all
>> others (rechargables and regular alkalines), longer
>> performance, stronger charge.
>> 4) You have to keep revolving your recharging.
>> 5) One 9V recharges in an hour while the other is
>> being used in your pedals, etc.
>> 5) You save - literally - THOUSANDS of DOLLARS because
>> each battery will give you up to 1,000 full voltage
>> recharges.
>> 6) No more trips to the battery store for years to
>> come!
>>
>> SUMMARY - Instead of buying new batteries every few
>> weeks, you just keep using these over and over.
>> Recharging them requires a very small amount of
>> electricity! Total cost $40 - $100 up front (depending
>> on how many batteries you get), Total savings:
>> somewhere in the $1500 per battery range.
>>
>> -Shiverbones
>
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:39:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message news:n9nt1156fco73l7tnc68u57gj1t424l44u@4ax.com...
> So -- I don't get it -- why the hell use batteries at all? I hate
> screwing around with them in my pedals & have been using power
> supplies for several years. There are several nice 9v units on the
> market that eliminate the need for batteries altogether.
>
> Al


(Bad way to start a point, but...) Trust me.... you will find the time
when switching to batteries will be the only way to eliminate noise.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 12:32:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 00:53:43 -0800, bjacoby@iwaynet.net wrote:


>One reason you need batteries for your instruments is the total
>unavailability of ac power on stage. You really never know just how far
>away an outlet is.

all my stuff is power stripped, but, i carry a bucketload of batteries
just in case. I imagine lots of working guys do the same thing. theres
nothing worse than going to play some club and finding out the main
outlet onstage is on the same circuit as the refrigerator.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 1:44:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

EricK wrote:
> Rechargeables also do not gradually diminish their charge during use.
> They tend to perform within spec for a period of time, then drop off
> rather quickly. Non-rechargeables diminish more evenly. This can be a
> problem with wireless mics, for instance, if you are relying on the
> battery fuel gauge to know when to change the battery.

I have a simple solution to this that I use myself. I buy high
quality 9.6V NiMH batteries. Then I never use them in a wireless
mic for more than about 3 or 4 hours. I recharge at every
reasonably convenient opportunity. So basically, I try not to
use more than maybe the top 1/3 of the battery's capacity.

Since they are NiMH, they basically don't have memory and don't
need to be deep cycled to perform well. And I have a -deltaV
charger that (unlike some cheaper chargers that use a dumb timer)
senses the state of the battery and basically never overcharges
them. Some performers who are on stage only for a few moments
like to switch their transmitter off, and in such cases the
battery may charge back to 100% in as little as 15 minutes, so
I believe having a smart charger is very important!

And, no, the battery "fuel gauge" on the equipment isn't as
accurate for NiMH. But, my attitude is that the fuel gauge
isn't too useful anyway. It often isn't helpful to have 30
minutes' notice that you need a new battery if that happens
in the middle of a performance. And often you don't even get
that, because the performer does not know that green, amber,
and red mean different things. And if they do, they may not
check. They may just leave the transmitter in their pocket
and forget about its existence. They have other things on
their mind anyway.

- Logan
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 1:55:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

I wonder if Eric Johnson can hear the difference between a
nicad and a NiMH...:/
MK
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 11:06:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<nm5k@wt.net> wrote in message news:1109400920.923738.224480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I wonder if Eric Johnson can hear the difference between a
> nicad and a NiMH...:/
> MK
>

Can Eric hear his doorbell ?
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:00:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> <nm5k@wt.net> wrote...

> > I wonder if Eric Johnson can hear the difference between a
> > nicad and a NiMH...:/

> Can Eric hear his doorbell ?

All very funny, but if you've heard the man in person playing an
acoustic guitar you probably won't be joking about his hearing ability.
He has tone and touch to spare.

--
ha
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:00:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:00:23 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>
>> <nm5k@wt.net> wrote...
>
>> > I wonder if Eric Johnson can hear the difference between a
>> > nicad and a NiMH...:/
>
>> Can Eric hear his doorbell ?
>
>All very funny, but if you've heard the man in person playing an
>acoustic guitar you probably won't be joking about his hearing ability.
>He has tone and touch to spare.

Yes he does, but his music bores me do death, at least what I've heard
of it so far.

Al
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:15:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

"EricK" <eric@Raw-Tracks.com> wrote:
>> And furthermore, many have a lower terminal voltage (like 8.4V)
>> which will not work with a lot of equipment.

Richard Crowley replied:
>
> Rechargeables also do not gradually diminish their charge during use.
> They tend to perform within spec for a period of time, then drop off
> rather quickly. Non-rechargeables diminish more evenly. This can be a
> problem with wireless mics, for instance, if you are relying on the
> battery fuel gauge to know when to change the battery. With a
> rechargeable, you may be running in the green for a while, then
> suddenly you're in the red, not having spent any time in yellow.



We're in the midst of a long-term test of the viability of rechargeable
9V-type cells for our TV production needs.

The ones our Engineering department found are actually higher voltage
than alkaline cells, somewhere around 11 volts or so when fully charged.
I dunno how that would affect other devices, but the voltage regulation
in our wireless stuff (Lectro) is good enough that it doesn't matter.

Eric is dead right about the drainage curve. They measure fine, fine,
fine, fine, dead. That rendered useless the super-cool battery voltage
displays on the front of our Lectrosonics receivers. We dealt with that
by charting discharge rates under typical load conditions and just
setting a time limit.

That time is shorter than with alkalines. We could squeeze well over
three hours (continuous) out of an alkaline cell. These die a bit short
of two hours. We've made 90 minutes our target for battery changes.
That leaves a little fudge-factor to avoid on-air failures.

The advantages for us are lower operating cost and keeping literally
thousands of batteries per year out of the landfill.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:23:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

<bjacoby@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
> [...] for a reachargeable battery to
> replace an alkaline it'd have be able to be recharged then have the
> shelf life of an alkaine (measured in years!) retaining full charge
> the whole time


For me, shelf life is pretty much irrelevant. All of ours get used
every day. That said, we did determine that the ones we're using
discharge over time, even sitting in the charger. I didn't ask how much
or how fast because it wasn't really relevant in our situation.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 9:00:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

I'm glad to hear some positive fedback on these products. I'd like to
throw out a few more points...

1) NiMH batteries require a change in your routine, but they certainly
save you thousands of dollars and do an immense amount of good for the
environment.

2) NiMH batteries recharge to full power rapidly. The ones I sell, take
1 hour maximum to regain full charge.

3) NiMH's have little to no memory issues. They will deliver full power
over and over again, from 500 - 1000 recharges.

4) NiMH's perform better in digital cameras, pda's, handheld games, etc
- than alkalines, bar none. They deliver more power, for a longer
period of time than alkalines. I'm waiting to hear back about how well
they perform in effects & pedals. There is some feedback above as to
how well they do in microphones.

5) NiMHs will recharge a minimum of 500 times. If you're making daily
recharges, such as in the news/production facility described above,
you'll enjoy about 2 solid years of battery performance - minimum,
possibly 4 -- based on a 5 day work week. Purchased from my store, this
will cost you about $40 - $100...

Alkalines give you hours, NiMHs give you years.

Also - I want to stress, NiMH batteries have NO HEAVY METALS and are
therefore tremendously less toxic when finally disposed of. You may
also choose to go the extra mile and mail your batteries off to a
disposal center. Such processing centers can be found at my website.

And Finally - NiMHs will save you about $1500 per package.

Drop by my store!
Thanks - and best of luck,

Chris
http://www.goodcommonsense.net
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 11:15:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message news:1gsl28g.6mrfqq1rzm82N%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>
> > <nm5k@wt.net> wrote...
>
> > > I wonder if Eric Johnson can hear the difference between a
> > > nicad and a NiMH...:/
>
> > Can Eric hear his doorbell ?
>
> All very funny, but if you've heard the man in person playing an
> acoustic guitar you probably won't be joking about his hearing ability.
> He has tone and touch to spare.
>
> --
> ha

I interviewed him at the GSW Guitar Show for Texas Music news about
a dozen years ago, then was blasted into frailty at an evening post-show
party. I haven't seen him since, but it *was* loud. So I am joking... that's
why I dropped the cross-post to the guitar group. I'm silly, but I don't have
a death wish. <g>

DM
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:48:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1109469607.870635.80020@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> customerservice@goodcommonsense.net writes:

> 1) NiMH batteries require a change in your routine, but they certainly
> save you thousands of dollars and do an immense amount of good for the
> environment.

I think that they save a few people thousands of dollars. They save
most people a few dollars. Not that this is a bad thing, but it may
not be important enough to change a routine that works.

I may be atypical of a musician, TV studio, or touring sound company,
but I just don't use that many batteries. I buy a 24-pack of AA and a
6-pack of 9V batteries about once every two years. That probably costs
me about $12 and I know that I always have fresh batteries, not
batteries that I forgot to charge after the last time I used them.

> 2) NiMH batteries recharge to full power rapidly. The ones I sell, take
> 1 hour maximum to regain full charge.

Let's say I use ten wireless mics in a show. So I have to either buy
several chargers or be around to switch batteries on the charger
during most of the next day so they'll be ready for the next show. I'm
tied to this task or I risk a failure during a show. Not a good thing.

> 3) NiMH's have little to no memory issues. They will deliver full power
> over and over again, from 500 - 1000 recharges.

Great. But that might be two years for users who get into a regular
charging routine to prevent not having a charged battery when they
need it.

> 4) NiMH's perform better in digital cameras, pda's, handheld games, etc
> - than alkalines, bar none. They deliver more power, for a longer
> period of time than alkalines.

I have some NiMH AA cells for my digital camera. I use the camera for
a few minutes every few weeks. I find that I need to refresh the NiMH
cells more often than I need to replace Alkaline AAs. Sometimes I'll
turn on the camera and the battery will be nearly deal. I don't know
why. But I've trained myself that whenever I see the camera collecting
a little dust, I recharge the batteries. And yes, it takes about an
hour.

> Also - I want to stress, NiMH batteries have NO HEAVY METALS and are
> therefore tremendously less toxic when finally disposed of.

I thought that Nickel was considered a heavy metal. Does the Ni stand
for something else? It seems like 30 years after any new
chemical-based product is invented someone discovers a danger we
didn't know about.

> And Finally - NiMHs will save you about $1500 per package.

I'll take two. Where do I collect my $1500? <g>


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:16:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Ah, "Point #1" is the "catch" isn't it? Shelf life of one month vs
Alkaline shelf live of at least 3-4 years (depends on the date on the
battery when you buy it).

So here I am, bass player with a closet full of basses and effects
pedals. MOST sit unused all the time even when I'm giging a lot. A FEW
of them will get a lot of houirs on them. So the bottom line is I can
load up the crew with batteries and sit back and quit worrying about
them for years before I've got the load them all up again. Of course
there are a few things that will need periodic batteries but most of
these instruments really last a LONG time before they use up the
batteries.

Now with the rechargables, I've got to "change my routine" by digging
out the closet every MONTH and recharging everybody in there! Vs a
re-battery routine every couple years. So am I saving "$1500"? NOT if
you start counting my time to do all this re-charging at a decent
hourly rate! These rechargable batteries could end up COSTING me $1500
a year!

Bottom line? I'm still VERY skepitical of rechargables for musical
applications. BUT, on the other hand, say I want to run some portable
current hog devices. Recorders, cameras, amplifiers? Yeah, we are onto
something here. I can see HUGE savings without all the nightmares of
NiCad shortcomings. So to me I see applications here that make sense,
but FAR from the ultimate perfect solution.

Benj
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 8:07:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Sorry.... but I have a real problem with this whole "rechargeable" battery
concept when it comes to professional work. Stick 'em in Junior's toy
4-wheel drive pickup remote control, but keep them away from the stage.

I have access to three regularly used wireless systems, all three remote
transmitters will cease to operate at between 7.2 and 7.6 volts. The vast
majority of rechargeables will not *guarantee* a recharge that exceeds 8.4
volts on a 9v battery. This would allow for far less than a 1 hour operating
window at best. On something with a real current draw, maybe only minutes.

My church wireless systems were operated by re-chargeables when I took
over there almost three years ago. The lavalier belt-pack transmitters were
constantly giving out before the morning service on re-chargeables that
were removed from the charger and installed that morning.

The first time your show or corporate presentation is stopped after 15
minutes from baa-aaa-aad batteries, you're likely to loose a lot more
than $1500 in future work, if not be fined that much for the day.

Batteries for musicians..... Duracell ;-) Even fresh Radio Shacks
and Eveready will beat duration of most any rechargeable when in continuous
operation.

However, I'm sure there are a lot of people around here though that would
be willing beta-test your little charging hummer and report back.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



"owner, good common sense" <customerservice@goodcommonsense.net> wrote in message
news:1109468877.424187.298810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Howdy!
>
> OK, quick review. Alkalines and NiCads (Nickel Cadmium Batteries) are
> what evverybody's used to so far. My store is selling a new and better
> product: NiMHs (Nickel Metal Hydride batteries).
>
> As far as the above letter... This gentleman makes some great points. I
> can't wait to hear the "feedback" from players' experiences on NiMH
> batteries, but after reading through his response I'd like to note 5
> points. Bear with me:
>
> 1) NiMH batteries must be recharged monthly. They discharge after that
> period of non-use (approximately). So, that may require a change in
> your routine.
>
> 2) NiMH batteries recharge to full power rapidly. The ones I sell, take
> 1 hour maximum to regain full charge.
>
> 3) NiMH's have little to no memory issues.
>
> 4) This is my gray area - NiMHs (according to the manufacturer) provide
> a stronger current for a longer period of time than alkalines,
> depending on use. In other words - these things perform better in
> digital cameras, pda's, handheld games, etc - than alkalines, bar none.
> I'm waiting to hear back about how well they perform in effects &
> pedals. My guess is that they are comparable. Stay tuned...
>
> 5) My favorite part - The NiMH batteries can be recharged 500 - 1000
> times. This means that you'lll buy one set of batteries, and a charger
> - make minor changes to your routine - and be done with it for
> something like 10 years. Alkalines give you weeks, NiMHs give you
> years.
>
> Also - I want to stress, NiMH batteries have NO TOXIC EFFECT when
> finally diposed of, and will save you about $1500 per package.
>
> Check it out!
>
> http://www.goodcommonsense.net
>
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 11:17:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> Sorry.... but I have a real problem with this whole "rechargeable" battery
> concept when it comes to professional work.

Ambulance drivers use rechargeable batteries to start the ambulance
engine. They seem to get by OK with it. :-)

> I have access to three regularly used wireless systems, all three remote
> transmitters will cease to operate at between 7.2 and 7.6 volts. The vast
> majority of rechargeables will not *guarantee* a recharge that exceeds 8.4
> volts on a 9v battery.

So don't buy 8.4V battries. Buy 9.6V ones. MAHA Powerex and Ansmann
(two of the best NiMH brands, from what I've heard) both make 9.6V
batteries. They are 8 x 1.2 V cells instead of 7 x 1.2V cells. The
extra 1.2 V, as you can imagine, makes quite a difference. I use the
MAHA Powerex ones and they work great for me.

> Batteries for musicians..... Duracell ;-) Even fresh Radio Shacks
> and Eveready will beat duration of most any rechargeable when in continuous
> operation.

At my church, we have three services on Sunday morning. One of the
pastors regularly leaves his lav transmitter turned on through all
three of them. This means the MAHA 9.6V battery is powering the lav
transmitter from 9:30am (a late sound check) to about 1:30pm, when
the last service ends (if we end on time). There has never been a
battery issue. When he returns the transmitter, it's still in the
"green zone", i.e. the transmitter's battery indicator is indicating
a strong battery.

I'm not saying rechargeables are perfect and can do no wrong. In fact,
I'm sure the lav transmitters we use are more tolerant of low voltages
than yours, since they also worked fine on our old 8.4V (or were they
7.2V?) NiMH batteries.

However, I am saying that good quality batteries and good quality
chargers do exist and can perform very well in most applications,
and even better than alkalines in some applications. They are not
good with shelf life, so they are probably not useful for putting
in your guitar. But for lav mics, you're not (hopefully) leaving
batteries in there between uses anyway, so with 9.6V NiMH, there
is virtually no down side that I know of.

Keep in mind that I am not talking about cheap timer-based chargers
(that charge your batteries for 14 hours even if they only need
30 minutes) and thereby overheat them, shortening their life.
I am talking about intelligent chargers that sense the state of
each battery intelligently with a separate charging circuit for
each one of the batteries. Battery technology has improved
steadily over the least 5 years or so, and charger technology
has gotten WAY better in the last few years.

- Logan
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 12:34:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

In article <1109571375.330034.78390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<bjacoby@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
>So here I am, bass player with a closet full of basses and effects
>pedals. MOST sit unused all the time even when I'm giging a lot. A FEW
>of them will get a lot of houirs on them. So the bottom line is I can
>load up the crew with batteries and sit back and quit worrying about
>them for years before I've got the load them all up again. Of course
>there are a few things that will need periodic batteries but most of
>these instruments really last a LONG time before they use up the
>batteries.

For THIS application, you want the Ultralife lithium batteries,
as sold for smoke alarms. Not rechargeable, but between four and ten
times the life of an alkaline battery for about three times the cost, and
a twenty-year shelf life. Ask your local battery wholesaler. Even Radio
Shack and Ace Hardware carry them, but they mark them up a lot.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:22:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1109571375.330034.78390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> bjacoby@iwaynet.net writes:

> Ah, "Point #1" is the "catch" isn't it? Shelf life of one month vs
> Alkaline shelf live of at least 3-4 years (depends on the date on the
> battery when you buy it).

Just last week I replaced the 30V battery in my Triplett 630NA
multimeter (analog). I've had that meter for well over 30 years and I
think this is the second time I've replaced this battery. No leaks,
just too dead to zero the meter on the high ohms range.

Thanks to Batteries Plus for still being able to find the battery. You
can't get those at 7-11.

Now you want something really neat? There's a company making hydrogen
fuel cell batteries for a (professional) Panasonic video camera. But
when you're doing your field work in Timbuktu, better bring along your
own hydrogen tanks. Welding shops there don't take American Express.
<G>

[I'm waiting for someone to post a web site for a welding shop in
Timbuktu that takes American Express, starting a whole new branch to
this message thread - come on, you can do it!]





--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:53:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1109596407k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>In article <1109571375.330034.78390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> bjacoby@iwaynet.net writes:
>
>> Ah, "Point #1" is the "catch" isn't it? Shelf life of one month vs
>> Alkaline shelf live of at least 3-4 years (depends on the date on the
>> battery when you buy it).
>
>Just last week I replaced the 30V battery in my Triplett 630NA
>multimeter (analog). I've had that meter for well over 30 years and I
>think this is the second time I've replaced this battery. No leaks,
>just too dead to zero the meter on the high ohms range.
>
>Thanks to Batteries Plus for still being able to find the battery. You
>can't get those at 7-11.

Note that this is a zinc-carbon stack. If it had been an alkaline
battery, I doubt it would have lasted this long. Zinc-carbon batteries
actually have a very long life before the unloaded voltage drops, so
with things that don't take much current (like light meters and
multitesters), they actually outlast alkalines by a long shot.

All of this stuff is discussed in the Gates Battery Handbook by the way.
They also mention a copper/silver battery stack in the Victoria and
Albert Museum that is over 150 years old and still operating.

>Now you want something really neat? There's a company making hydrogen
>fuel cell batteries for a (professional) Panasonic video camera. But
>when you're doing your field work in Timbuktu, better bring along your
>own hydrogen tanks. Welding shops there don't take American Express.
><G>

Hydrogen or methanol? Methanol should be fairly easy to obtain. Even
better would be an effective fuel cell that could run off of petroleum
distillates without being poisoned. Ronsonol and naptha are available
even in Timbuktu, and have very high energy density.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 4:57:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cvveqg$64g$1@panix2.panix.com...

> Ronsonol and naptha are available
> even in Timbuktu, and have very high energy density.

I believe Ronsonol *is* naptha.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 6:22:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> For THIS application, you want the Ultralife lithium batteries,
> as sold for smoke alarms. Not rechargeable, but between four and ten
> times the life of an alkaline battery for about three times the cost, and
> a twenty-year shelf life. Ask your local battery wholesaler. Even Radio
> Shack and Ace Hardware carry them, but they mark them up a lot.

What he said. Since I started using those in my primary electric guitar
I get as much as a _year_ of use from one. I pull them from the Ibanez
and stick 'em in tuners and such where failure is less consequential.

But man, does the packaging smell funky. What's with that?

--
ha
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 9:30:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cvveqg$64g$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> All of this stuff is discussed in the Gates Battery Handbook by the way.
> They also mention a copper/silver battery stack in the Victoria and
> Albert Museum that is over 150 years old and still operating.

I'm pretty sure I have one of those around here (the Gates book, not a
150 year old battery, but some are getting close). I should look
around for it. But it was probably written around the time of Victoria
and Albert.

> >Now you want something really neat? There's a company making hydrogen
> >fuel cell batteries for a (professional) Panasonic video camera.

> Hydrogen or methanol? Methanol should be fairly easy to obtain.

Hydrogen. Just like the new Toyotas.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 12:20:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Thank you for a look at rechargeables that I hadn't realized. I wasn't aware
of the 9.6 volt capacity battery. (I'd still be a little hesitant of duration under
application).

As to your question about leaving the batteries in the belt packs... we do.
But, we replace them before every service. So as not to make this a losing
proposition, the used batteries go into toys in the day care, smoke detectors,
music stand clip-on lights, etc..

And on your other point, I have fine luck now too, with the bellt pack txmitters
being left on all morning once I dumped to rechargeables.

Our elderly, hearing impaired congregants, go through the most batteries in
the little wireless headset receivers that require 3 AAA batteries.

Is there an equally decent rechargeable in that category that you know of ?

I think our poster, "owner, good common sense", is hawking 9 volt systems
and assuming that everyone just tosses their low charge batteries. I'll
entertain his input on AAA systems and a link to specs...

(There's really nothing around the church that these will fit into once they're
below operating charge).

Thanks again, Logan,

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com




"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:7sAUd.67680$cW2.52537@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>
> > Sorry.... but I have a real problem with this whole "rechargeable" battery
> > concept when it comes to professional work.
>
> Ambulance drivers use rechargeable batteries to start the ambulance
> engine. They seem to get by OK with it. :-)
>
> > I have access to three regularly used wireless systems, all three remote
> > transmitters will cease to operate at between 7.2 and 7.6 volts. The vast
> > majority of rechargeables will not *guarantee* a recharge that exceeds 8.4
> > volts on a 9v battery.
>
> So don't buy 8.4V battries. Buy 9.6V ones. MAHA Powerex and Ansmann
> (two of the best NiMH brands, from what I've heard) both make 9.6V
> batteries. They are 8 x 1.2 V cells instead of 7 x 1.2V cells. The
> extra 1.2 V, as you can imagine, makes quite a difference. I use the
> MAHA Powerex ones and they work great for me.
>
> > Batteries for musicians..... Duracell ;-) Even fresh Radio Shacks
> > and Eveready will beat duration of most any rechargeable when in continuous
> > operation.
>
> At my church, we have three services on Sunday morning. One of the
> pastors regularly leaves his lav transmitter turned on through all
> three of them. This means the MAHA 9.6V battery is powering the lav
> transmitter from 9:30am (a late sound check) to about 1:30pm, when
> the last service ends (if we end on time). There has never been a
> battery issue. When he returns the transmitter, it's still in the
> "green zone", i.e. the transmitter's battery indicator is indicating
> a strong battery.
>
> I'm not saying rechargeables are perfect and can do no wrong. In fact,
> I'm sure the lav transmitters we use are more tolerant of low voltages
> than yours, since they also worked fine on our old 8.4V (or were they
> 7.2V?) NiMH batteries.
>
> However, I am saying that good quality batteries and good quality
> chargers do exist and can perform very well in most applications,
> and even better than alkalines in some applications. They are not
> good with shelf life, so they are probably not useful for putting
> in your guitar. But for lav mics, you're not (hopefully) leaving
> batteries in there between uses anyway, so with 9.6V NiMH, there
> is virtually no down side that I know of.
>
> Keep in mind that I am not talking about cheap timer-based chargers
> (that charge your batteries for 14 hours even if they only need
> 30 minutes) and thereby overheat them, shortening their life.
> I am talking about intelligent chargers that sense the state of
> each battery intelligently with a separate charging circuit for
> each one of the batteries. Battery technology has improved
> steadily over the least 5 years or so, and charger technology
> has gotten WAY better in the last few years.
>
> - Logan
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 2:34:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> Thank you for a look at rechargeables that I hadn't realized. I wasn't
> aware of the 9.6 volt capacity battery. (I'd still be a little hesitant
> of duration under application).

http://www.mahaenergy.com

Good batteries; good chargers.

--
ha
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:30:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> Thank you for a look at rechargeables that I hadn't realized. I wasn't aware
> of the 9.6 volt capacity battery. (I'd still be a little hesitant of duration under
> application).

Well, in the 9.6 V ones, the extra 8th cell means that all the cells are
that much smaller. There is only a certain amount of space. In fact,
the Maha ones are actually like 1mm or 2mm longer than a regular 9V
would be, I guess because they're trying to cram as much energy as
possible into that small amount of space.

> So as not to make this a losing
> proposition, the used batteries go into toys in the day care, smoke detectors,
> music stand clip-on lights, etc..

I love the idea of using the old batteries. In fact, I've been trying
to figure out how to reuse the extra alkalines we have. The band likes
to use alkalines for their in-ear monitors, and one pastor has problems
trusting any battery that was not just unwrapped before his eyes (even
though his battery has never run out, but paranoia is a virtue in some
cases anyway). So, we end up with lots of extra 9V batteries that are
still like 75% to 90% good. I've never figured out anything useful to
do with them. Maybe I'll send them up to you in Dallas. :-)

By the way, do you really put used batteries in the smoke detectors?
Speaking as a guy who goes to a church that once had a fire which very
nearly got out of control and destroyed the sanctuary, among other
things, I wouldn't trust anything but brand new batteries in a smoke
detector!

> Our elderly, hearing impaired congregants, go through the most batteries in
> the little wireless headset receivers that require 3 AAA batteries.

> Is there an equally decent rechargeable in that category that you know of ?

I haven't researched AAA too much, although I did look at AA batteries
a lot when I got a digital camera. Some quick googling indicates that
Duracell AAA alkaline batteries are rated at about 1150 mAh, whereas
the best AAA NiMH batteries I can find are rated at 900 mAh. Not that
ratings are necessarily always accurate.

I'm not sure if you need long life in this application, though, so that
may not matter. Unfortunately, it's much harder to make a true 1.5V
NiMH AAA than it is to make a 9.6V NiMH "9V" battery, because in the
latter case, you can add an extra 1.2V cell, but it's not too easy to
add 1/4 of a cell to bring the 1.2V up to 1.5V in the former case. :-)

Anyway, from my AA research, I found several useful web sites with
information about batteries:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/nimh_batteries.html
http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

And one web shop that sells a variety of good stuff:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/

Interestingly, I went to Fry's Electronics and a local camera shop,
and I've checked a few other places when I'm there, and no local place
in Austin that I've found seems to even stock the batteries rated
highest on that The Great Battery Shootout page (second link above).

Actually, if you were to replace the AAA batteries with NiMHs, since
it sounds like you churn through a lot, the most important thing
might be to get a good charger, so that the batteries are treated
well and last for hundreds of recharge cycles. I've had good luck
with my iPowerUS FC-501, which has a separate charing circuit for
each battery. It replaced a Radio Shack 5 hour charger, and the
batteries do not get NEARLY as hot in the iPowerUS as they did in
the Radio Shack one, and yet they charge faster! However, the iPowerUS
was about $35 and the Radio Shack one was a tad cheaper.

Also, the Ansmann Energy 16 is a $140 monstrosity, but it can charge
twelve AAA and four 9V batteries at once (with a separate circuit
for each!) and to me looks like the best design out there.

Of course, if you did get something like an Ansmann Energy 16, with
twelve AAA batteries to go along with it, then you're looking at
something like $175. I'm not sure how much you're paying for your
AAA batteries now, but that's about the cost of 200 AAA Duracells
from what I can figure. So it should eventually pay off, since
you should easily get more than 16 recharges out of the NiMH, but
it might be a year or something before you break even, depending
on how many you have to replace how often.

- Logan
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:58:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message...

Thanks Logan. What a superb lot of information on rechargeables.

(If anyone missed it.... news:c_TUd.1395$SQ4.1234@fe1.texas.rr.com )

As to your only question returned question:

> By the way, do you really put used batteries in the smoke detectors?
> Speaking as a guy who goes to a church that once had a fire which very
> nearly got out of control and destroyed the sanctuary, among other
> things, I wouldn't trust anything but brand new batteries in a smoke
> detector!


Yes, we do! The detectors (and there are plenty of them), are located in
all sorts of oddball places, from choir robe closets to under the stages,
start a loud beeping when the battery voltage reaches 6v. There's usually
a minister on site 6 days a week, leaving only Saturdays with no one to
attend the building. And where do you suppose those ministers are told
to get replacements if they're needed? Yup.... from the wireless mics.

Thanks again,

DM
March 1, 2005 11:41:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

In article <c_TUd.1395$SQ4.1234@fe1.texas.rr.com>, lshaw-
usenet@austin.rr.com says...
> Interestingly, I went to Fry's Electronics and a local camera shop,
> and I've checked a few other places when I'm there, and no local place
> in Austin that I've found seems to even stock the batteries rated
> highest on that The Great Battery Shootout page (second link above).
>
That's not surprising to me. I have noticed an appalling lack
of resources for getting parts of any kind around here. The only
electronics places that are here cater exclusively to businesses
and not individuals, and junk places like Radio Shack don't even
carry replacement speakers anymore, let alone parts or batteries
that don't go into cell phones.
Have you tried the couple of battery specialist places yet?
There's two that I know of - one on South Lamar and one on Burnett
up by the Guitar Center mall (the one that used to have the ice
rink in it). They won't be cheap, though.
Ever since Tinkertronics became Bantam I can't find parts anywhere
in this town. Fry's token parts section is so small as to wonder why
they bother...
I *am* getting interested in these NiMH batteries for my wireless
transmitter, though. It seems like it might be a way to stop going
through so many, and to have a fully-charged battery ready when I
need it without going to the local drugstore in a panic...
--
---Michael (of APP)...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/austinpowerplantmusic...
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:21:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>
> I have access to three regularly used wireless systems, all three remote
> transmitters will cease to operate at between 7.2 and 7.6 volts. The vast
> majority of rechargeables will not *guarantee* a recharge that exceeds 8.4
> volts on a 9v battery. This would allow for far less than a 1 hour operating
> window at best. On something with a real current draw, maybe only minutes.

I agree that the 9V rectangulars are "not quite there yet," but IMO the NiMH AA cells rock. In newer devices with switchmode supplies (e.g. Sennheiser G2 wireless, Sound Devices mixers) they can deliver amazing performance.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:28:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

bjacoby@iwaynet.net wrote:
> Ah, "Point #1" is the "catch" isn't it? Shelf life of one month vs
> Alkaline shelf live of at least 3-4 years (depends on the date on the
> battery when you buy it).

NiCd self-discharge curve is roughly 10% in the first 24 hours and 10% per month after that.

NiMH shares the 10% in 24 hours part but jumps to nearly 30% per month after that. Also, the higher capacity chemistries tend to be worse in this area than some of the older (1600 mAH, etc.) variants.






> say I want to run some portable
> current hog devices. Recorders, cameras, amplifiers? Yeah

For really high load current, NiCd is still the champ. Works better in very cold weather, too.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:34:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>
> Our elderly, hearing impaired congregants, go through the most batteries in
> the little wireless headset receivers that require 3 AAA batteries.
>
> Is there an equally decent rechargeable in that category that you know of ?


First off you need to verify that the receivers are happy on ~3.6V rather than ~4.5V supply. You can do this with either NiCd or NiMH cells.

If that turns out to be true (unlikely in older inexpensive gear) you might look into a Maha charger and some cells from one of the better manufacturers (Maha, Eveready, etc.) <http://thomasdistributing.com/&gt; is a good source.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:37:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Logan Shaw wrote:
>
>> Our elderly, hearing impaired congregants, go through the most batteries in
>> the little wireless headset receivers that require 3 AAA batteries.
>>
>> Is there an equally decent rechargeable in that category that you know of ?
>
>
> I haven't researched AAA too much, although I did look at AA batteries
> a lot when I got a digital camera. Some quick googling indicates that
> Duracell AAA alkaline batteries are rated at about 1150 mAh, whereas
> the best AAA NiMH batteries I can find are rated at 900 mAh. Not that
> ratings are necessarily always accurate.

And they vary quite a bit based on discharge rate. In certain applications, NiMH cells outperform alkalines. In others, the alkalines stomp the NiMH cells. And as Dorsey pointed out, there are a few where good old zinc-carbon still rules the roost.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 12:37:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:02:32 -0400, "Wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I gig every weekend and was sick of the Ac adapter they are a pain in
>the ass.

That's funny because I think just the opposite, I hate changing
batteries, and the expense of it adds up. If you use a pedal board,
the AC is the only way to go... plug it in and that's it. If you just
are putting the pedals on the floor, maybe it's not as handy.

Al
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:07:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:18:07 -0800, Richard Crowley <rcrowley7@xprt.net>
wrote:

> Bubba Kahuna wrote ...
>> Not exactly. Rechargable batteries are NOT "endlessly rechargeable".
>> They take less and less of a charge every time you recharge them. You
>> can reset them to full capacity by draining them completely dead and
>> starting over, but they only take that a couple dozen times before they
>> burn out. Also, rechargable 9v batteries do NOT have more power than
>> standard batteries. In my experience over the last 30 years using them,
>> they actually die sooner than alkalines do.
>
> And furthermore, many have a lower terminal voltage (like 8.4V)
> which will not work with a lot of equipment.

Nickel Cadmium or Nickel Metal Hydride cells have to be properly managed
if you want a decent lifespan out of them. You should always discharge
them to their end point before recharging. If you try to recharge a half
used battery then you are looking for trouble.

If you don't want to have to worry about managing your batteries properly
then look for lithium ion alternatives - they're more expensive but give
slightly higher capacity with less worry.

Cheers.

James.

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:07:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

James Perrett wrote:
>
> Nickel Cadmium or Nickel Metal Hydride cells have to be properly managed
> if you want a decent lifespan out of them.

Agreed.


> You should always discharge
> them to their end point before recharging. If you try to recharge a half
> used battery then you are looking for trouble.

True for NiCd cells, less true for NiMH. It is a good idea to run the NiMH cells down all the way a few times per year, but they don't have the overt memory issues of NiCd cells.



> If you don't want to have to worry about managing your batteries
> properly then look for lithium ion alternatives - they're more expensive
> but give slightly higher capacity with less worry.

And almost no self discharge problems.

And very poor cold weather performance.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:23:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

On 24 Feb 2005 20:11:11 -0800, owner, good common sense
<customerservice@goodcommonsense.net> wrote:


> 3) Of the available choices for 9 Volts and related products, NiMH's
> (what I sell) are by far the superior choice. I invite you to visit the
> website and learn more aobut 'em...
>

> Admittedly, there's a new routine involved in using these superior
> products...
>


You still need to be careful with these batteries if you want to get the
best out of them. The memory effect is still there so you need to fully
discharge before you recharge. We use specially made test rigs to do this
- I don't know if there is anything commercially available.

For casual use you may find that good quality Alkalines are better - but
not all well known brands of Alkaline cells are what I would call good
quality.

Cheers.

James.



--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:28:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
>
>True for NiCd cells, less true for NiMH. It is a good idea to run the NiMH cells down all the way a few times per year, but they don't have the overt memory issues of NiCd cells.

Do any batteries really still have memory issues? I have seen far more
NiCd packs ruined by reverse charging than anything else. I thought memory
problems were cured in the eighties?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:40:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

"play on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message news:h5ka219oer66e9irbk9il9eqebo9t5snjf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:02:32 -0400, "Wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I gig every weekend and was sick of the Ac adapter they are a pain in
> >the ass.
>
> That's funny because I think just the opposite, I hate changing
> batteries, and the expense of it adds up. If you use a pedal board,
> the AC is the only way to go... plug it in and that's it. If you just
> are putting the pedals on the floor, maybe it's not as handy.
>
> Al

What's not as handy to me, from a FOH and stage standpoint, is fighting
with the guy who carries around a loaded down pedal board that's running
off of a couple of wall wart convertors and ends up with massive noise or
ground problems. I've hear all the excuses... from, "It didn't do this last night"
all the way to, "It's *never* done this before" and "It MUST be YOUR power
that's dirty." I give 'em 15 minutes to find their problem before I start putting
batteries in the stomp boxes. I have yet to fail in solving noise problems simply
changing some or all of the pedals over to batteries. (Unless of course, the
player finds a bad patch cable, a frayed power cable, a loose circuit board
that's touching a pedal chassis, he reverses his power supply in the outlet,
or whatever it takes before I'm out of patience).

Other than that... wall wart pedal power is just really convenient. ;-)

DM
March 2, 2005 12:02:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

In article <a_eVd.36464$uc.3679@trnddc01>, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> says...
>
> "play on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message news:h5ka219oer66e9irbk9il9eqebo9t5snjf@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:02:32 -0400, "Wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I gig every weekend and was sick of the Ac adapter they are a pain in
> > >the ass.
> >
> > That's funny because I think just the opposite, I hate changing
> > batteries, and the expense of it adds up. If you use a pedal board,
> > the AC is the only way to go... plug it in and that's it. If you just
> > are putting the pedals on the floor, maybe it's not as handy.
> >
> > Al
>
> What's not as handy to me, from a FOH and stage standpoint, is fighting
> with the guy who carries around a loaded down pedal board that's running
> off of a couple of wall wart convertors and ends up with massive noise or
> ground problems. I've hear all the excuses... from, "It didn't do this last night"
> all the way to, "It's *never* done this before" and "It MUST be YOUR power
> that's dirty." I give 'em 15 minutes to find their problem before I start putting
> batteries in the stomp boxes. I have yet to fail in solving noise problems simply
> changing some or all of the pedals over to batteries. (Unless of course, the
> player finds a bad patch cable, a frayed power cable, a loose circuit board
> that's touching a pedal chassis, he reverses his power supply in the outlet,
> or whatever it takes before I'm out of patience).

This is a scenario I've not run into in over three decades of
performing. As a soundman, I've run into much worse problems with
bad cables and noisy single coil pickups than I ever have with the
pedals themselves. Oh, a bad one here'n'there, and ocassionally a
bad wallwart, but these would make noise under ANY circumstances.
For me, using wall current is the only way to go. I, however,
made my own supply rack on the pedalboard.
--
---Michael (of APP)...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/austinpowerplantmusic...
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 8:16:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
>
>> True for NiCd cells, less true for NiMH. It is a good idea to run the NiMH cells down all the way a few times per year, but they don't have the overt memory issues of NiCd cells.
>
>
> Do any batteries really still have memory issues? I have seen far more
> NiCd packs ruined by reverse charging than anything else. I thought memory
> problems were cured in the eighties?

NiCd memory problems were reduced quite a bit by 1990 or so, but a regular flatlining was still a good idea. After NiMH cells came along with higher capacities, many of the NiCd formulations were improved to boost capacity. This caused some increase in self discharge rates but I'm not sure about memory issues.

For practical purposes, NiMH cells do not have memory issues.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:17:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 04f2p$h6f$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
>>
>>True for NiCd cells, less true for NiMH. It is a good idea to run the
>>NiMH cells down all the way a few times per year, but they don't have the
>>overt memory issues of NiCd cells.
>
> Do any batteries really still have memory issues? I have seen far more
> NiCd packs ruined by reverse charging than anything else. I thought
> memory
> problems were cured in the eighties?
> --scott

I don't remember...

Jose
--
Musha ring dum a doo dum a dah - www.mcnach.com
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:06:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
>>
>>> True for NiCd cells, less true for NiMH. It is a good idea to run the NiMH cells down all the way a few times per year, but they don't have the overt memory issues of NiCd cells.
>>
>>
>> Do any batteries really still have memory issues? I have seen far more
>> NiCd packs ruined by reverse charging than anything else. I thought memory
>> problems were cured in the eighties?
>
>NiCd memory problems were reduced quite a bit by 1990 or so, but a regular flatlining was still a good idea. After NiMH cells came along with higher capacities, many of the NiCd formulations were improved to boost capacity. This caused some increase in self discharge rates but I'm not sure about memory issues.

My worry is that "flatlining" is the shortest possible route to reverse
charging a cell and wrecking the pack. And that's a more likely scenario
for battery failure than memory. Of course, if you could discharge each
cell individually to make sure they didn't get reversal, you might be fine.
And I would not be surprised if some of the new computer-controlled battery
packs do this.

>For practical purposes, NiMH cells do not have memory issues.

But sadly they still have the same major problems with reverse-charging.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:22:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hydrogen? How about methane? Ought to be very easy to get lots of that
by running a hose behind a drummer or bass player! Beans and beer
powered active bass!!!!

Benj
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:D 07jnd$nvn$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >> Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> True for NiCd cells, less true for NiMH. It is a good idea to run the NiMH cells down all the way a few times per year, but
they don't have the overt memory issues of NiCd cells.
> >>
> >>
> >> Do any batteries really still have memory issues? I have seen far more
> >> NiCd packs ruined by reverse charging than anything else. I thought memory
> >> problems were cured in the eighties?
> >
> >NiCd memory problems were reduced quite a bit by 1990 or so, but a regular flatlining was still a good idea. After NiMH cells
came along with higher capacities, many of the NiCd formulations were improved to boost capacity. This caused some increase in self
discharge rates but I'm not sure about memory issues.
>
> My worry is that "flatlining" is the shortest possible route to reverse
> charging a cell and wrecking the pack. And that's a more likely scenario
> for battery failure than memory. Of course, if you could discharge each
> cell individually to make sure they didn't get reversal, you might be fine.
> And I would not be surprised if some of the new computer-controlled battery
> packs do this.
>
> >For practical purposes, NiMH cells do not have memory issues.
>
> But sadly they still have the same major problems with reverse-charging.

Gee fellas... you're beginning to make this sound like disposables
are still the way to go... <g>

DM
!