External crossovers - cable runs

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm about to build the cables for my LS3/5A's. I'll be using an external
crossover and TNT's CAT5 FFRC cables. People have advised me that the cables
running from the crossover to the speakers should be as short as possible,
but I really don't know why it would matter if the longer cable run is
before the Xover or after it. Is this due to the changing
impedance/frequency or is there something else I'm missing? I'd like to keep
the crossovers near my amp, preamp, tuner, CD, etc. and THEN run the cables
off to my speakers 10-15 feet away. Please advise.

Thanks in advance!!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I'm a little suspicious of using Cat-5 style cables for speaker
connections,
> though. What's wrong with putting the crossover in the box anyway?
> --scott

a couple reasons....the original ls3/5a crossovers are MUCH smaller than the
ones supplied by Falcon Acoustics. In fact the 23t xover's from falcon are
so large they barely fit inside the cabinet at all, let lone on the back of
the tweeter (T27) where they are supposed to mount, which means I'd have to
mount them to the LF unit (b110) which could cause problems. I emailed
falcon about this and never got a response. Second, putting the xover's
inside the cabinet would change the internal air volume....I have already
added extra damping material which is not only a favorite "mod" of DIY
ls3/5a builders, it should also make up for some of the internal air volume
lost due to the fact that the xovers will be external. I know this sounds
very nit-picky, but remember they are british speakers =)

Also, Cicable makes similar xternal crossover boxes that are well recieved
by the ls3/5a crowd....they claim:

"up to ten times reduction of static magnetic field and vibration due to the
crossover being outside the speaker (especially the static field near the
inductors working like a 'magnetic DC offset'), less component 'cross-talk'
due to the 'spacious' external box"

"n test [HFN October 2001], KK found that 'dynamic range seemed to increase
markedly, as did bass control and perceived extension. The speakers seem
freer, looser and therefore less susceptible to the kind of restraint which
all LS3/5As suffer due to the ease with which they can be blown.' KK
concluded that 'The crossover will refine your LS3/5As to a point where -
maximum SPLs and thunderous bass aside - you will wonder why anyone listens
to anything else in most normal domestic environments."

blah blah, and so forth

as for the CAT5 cables, apparently they are an incredible bang/buck

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ffrc_e.html



--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cvo5je$qac$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Jonny Durango <jonnybush_from_officedurango1@comcast.net> wrote:
> >I'm about to build the cables for my LS3/5A's. I'll be using an external
> >crossover and TNT's CAT5 FFRC cables. People have advised me that the
cables
> >running from the crossover to the speakers should be as short as
possible,
> >but I really don't know why it would matter if the longer cable run is
> >before the Xover or after it. Is this due to the changing
> >impedance/frequency or is there something else I'm missing? I'd like to
keep
> >the crossovers near my amp, preamp, tuner, CD, etc. and THEN run the
cables
> >off to my speakers 10-15 feet away. Please advise.
>
> If there's a considerable cable resistance between the crossover and the
> driver, it will affect the load that the crossover sees, and that means
> it'll affect the turnover frequency of the crossover as well.
>
> Which is not a problem, it just means you have to design the crossover
> differently to take the cable into account. This is what the NHT A-20
> system does.
>
> I'm a little suspicious of using Cat-5 style cables for speaker
connections,
> though. What's wrong with putting the crossover in the box anyway?
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> That TNT-Audio web site seems like bonafide snake oil stuff. The guy is
> touting vibration dampeners for CD players and preamps which cause the
> following effects:
>
> Come on. He also advises putting tacky strips on your CD player:
>
> Now I've got to worry about whether my CD player is in tune?
>
> I mean this web site recommends using custom made power cables!

and such is the world of "audiophiles"...nonetheless it is very true that
the impendance, capacitance, conductivity, resistance to corrosion and
length as related to overall resistance are very important factors in
building audio cable and some are definately better than others due to these
factors.....I've never been one to buy into the whole OFC scam or
individually-coated teflon strand silver BS or whatever it is....you can
spend $600/stereo foot on audio note silver cable.....anyhow, Mr. TNT does
go a little overboard, but his cable designs and speaker stands I think are
incredibly useful!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Trevor de Clercq" <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote in message
news:1109379230.0f98f197ee4ad6540fcb68d25878e662@teranews...
> That TNT-Audio web site seems like bonafide snake oil stuff. The guy is
> touting vibration dampeners for CD players and preamps which cause the
> following effects:
>
> "....the sound has suddenly earned some 'body' and 'weight'...."
> "The focus of the scene is now better and there's more 'air' between
> singers and players. Even the mid-bass range sounds more articulated."
>
> Come on. He also advises putting tacky strips on your CD player:
>
> "You just need 5 or 6 strips of blue-tac (each strip being 10 cm -4
> inches- long) and you're done. Choosing the right place WHERE to put
> these strips is fundamental: do the choice *by ear*, ticking each panel
> and listening to the resonancies. As a quick rule of thumb you can start
> from the center of every panel."
>
> Now I've got to worry about whether my CD player is in tune?
>
> I mean this web site recommends using custom made power cables!
>
> Cheers,
> Trevor de Clercq
>
> Jonny Durango wrote:
> >>I'm a little suspicious of using Cat-5 style cables for speaker
> >
> > connections,
> >
> >>though. What's wrong with putting the crossover in the box anyway?
> >>--scott
> >
> >
> > a couple reasons....the original ls3/5a crossovers are MUCH smaller than
the
> > ones supplied by Falcon Acoustics. In fact the 23t xover's from falcon
are
> > so large they barely fit inside the cabinet at all, let lone on the back
of
> > the tweeter (T27) where they are supposed to mount, which means I'd have
to
> > mount them to the LF unit (b110) which could cause problems. I emailed
> > falcon about this and never got a response. Second, putting the xover's
> > inside the cabinet would change the internal air volume....I have
already
> > added extra damping material which is not only a favorite "mod" of DIY
> > ls3/5a builders, it should also make up for some of the internal air
volume
> > lost due to the fact that the xovers will be external. I know this
sounds
> > very nit-picky, but remember they are british speakers =)
> >
> > Also, Cicable makes similar xternal crossover boxes that are well
recieved
> > by the ls3/5a crowd....they claim:
> >
> > "up to ten times reduction of static magnetic field and vibration due to
the
> > crossover being outside the speaker (especially the static field near
the
> > inductors working like a 'magnetic DC offset'), less component
'cross-talk'
> > due to the 'spacious' external box"
> >
> > "n test [HFN October 2001], KK found that 'dynamic range seemed to
increase
> > markedly, as did bass control and perceived extension. The speakers seem
> > freer, looser and therefore less susceptible to the kind of restraint
which
> > all LS3/5As suffer due to the ease with which they can be blown.' KK
> > concluded that 'The crossover will refine your LS3/5As to a point
where -
> > maximum SPLs and thunderous bass aside - you will wonder why anyone
listens
> > to anything else in most normal domestic environments."
> >
> > blah blah, and so forth
> >
> > as for the CAT5 cables, apparently they are an incredible bang/buck
> >
> > http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ffrc_e.html
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jonny Durango
> >
> > "Patrick was a saint. I ain't."
> >
> > http://www.jdurango.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> > news:cvo5je$qac$1@panix2.panix.com...
> >
> >>Jonny Durango <jonnybush_from_officedurango1@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm about to build the cables for my LS3/5A's. I'll be using an
external
> >>>crossover and TNT's CAT5 FFRC cables. People have advised me that the
> >
> > cables
> >
> >>>running from the crossover to the speakers should be as short as
> >
> > possible,
> >
> >>>but I really don't know why it would matter if the longer cable run is
> >>>before the Xover or after it. Is this due to the changing
> >>>impedance/frequency or is there something else I'm missing? I'd like to
> >
> > keep
> >
> >>>the crossovers near my amp, preamp, tuner, CD, etc. and THEN run the
> >
> > cables
> >
> >>>off to my speakers 10-15 feet away. Please advise.
> >>
> >>If there's a considerable cable resistance between the crossover and the
> >>driver, it will affect the load that the crossover sees, and that means
> >>it'll affect the turnover frequency of the crossover as well.
> >>
> >>Which is not a problem, it just means you have to design the crossover
> >>differently to take the cable into account. This is what the NHT A-20
> >>system does.
> >>
> >>I'm a little suspicious of using Cat-5 style cables for speaker
> >
> > connections,
> >
> >>though. What's wrong with putting the crossover in the box anyway?
> >>--scott
> >>
> >>--
> >>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
> >
> >
> >

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jonny Durango wrote:

> anyhow, Mr. TNT does go a little overboard, but his cable designs and
> speaker stands I think are incredibly useful!

Where's PT Barnum when the circus is in session?

--
ha