MOO2 production question

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

I have a question about Master of Orion II.

Say I'm trying to build a Space Academy in one of my colonies. It costs
100 production. If I turn all my people into workers, they can make 70
production each turn. So I do, and they finish the building in two
turns. My question: does the extra 40 production (70 + 70 - 100) go to
waste?

If so, that means I need to micromanage my guys a lot more... :-(


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
11 answers Last reply
More about moo2 production question
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    I can't remember off the top off my head what the exact value is, but
    there is a 10-20 point carry over from unused production points from
    the previous completed item.

    So yes if you want to be as efficient as possible then you have to
    micromanage, but I find that this is only really important at the early
    stages of the game. In truth, the AI isn't strong enough so that the
    the amount of "wasted" production or research hurts you too much in the
    long run.

    I micromanage quite a lot in the beginning of the game. In the middle
    and late stages not so much.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:43:43 -0500, Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >I have a question about Master of Orion II.
    >
    >Say I'm trying to build a Space Academy in one of my colonies. It costs
    >100 production. If I turn all my people into workers, they can make 70
    >production each turn. So I do, and they finish the building in two
    >turns. My question: does the extra 40 production (70 + 70 - 100) go to
    >waste?
    >
    >If so, that means I need to micromanage my guys a lot more... :-(

    Excess production does not go to waste.

    If you have some building or ship in the production queue, all of
    the extra production carries over to the next thing in line. If
    nothing is in the queue, the excess production is treated as cash
    production. It isn't wasted, you'll see more money, but you can't use
    it on the next item.

    Except, however, if you're playing the PC version, which has a bug
    in the production carryover. Exploiting this bug deliberately --
    never filling the queue up -- will give you vasts amounts of extra
    money, without hurting production, which is still carried over. In
    effect, it counts excess production twice.

    A safe solution is to always have housing as the last queue item.
    That will soak this up, avoiding the bug.

    Because of this bug, Unification can outproduce democracy in cash if
    it exploits it. Not exploiting it on purpose isn't too hard, but
    avoiding getting any benefit from it by never leaving queues empty
    isn't easy.


    --
    *-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
    ** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
    *Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1c9276684aa511b798a320@216.168.3.44>, rast2@hotmail.com
    says...
    >
    > I have a question about Master of Orion II.
    >
    > Say I'm trying to build a Space Academy in one of my colonies. It costs
    > 100 production. If I turn all my people into workers, they can make 70
    > production each turn. So I do, and they finish the building in two
    > turns. My question: does the extra 40 production (70 + 70 - 100) go to
    > waste?
    >
    > If so, that means I need to micromanage my guys a lot more... :-(

    I've always considered the carry-over to be considerable, or complete,
    but I haven't put it to the test.

    I often have the situation that I am building something Really Big and
    urgently need something quick and small, I slip it into the queue ahead
    of the big item (the minor item will be finished in one turn) and the
    procuction of the big item seems to resume almost where it left off is
    my experience.

    One could do some detailed tests that way, of course.

    -P.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    Jeffery S. Jones wrote on Sat, 05 Mar 2005 07:16:15 -0600:

    > Excess production does not go to waste.

    Thanks.

    > Except, however, if you're playing the PC version, which has a bug
    > in the production carryover. Exploiting this bug deliberately --
    > never filling the queue up -- will give you vasts amounts of extra
    > money, without hurting production, which is still carried over. In
    > effect, it counts excess production twice.

    Ah. I guess that explains why my money keeps going up even though it
    says I have negative income. That's so stupid.

    > A safe solution is to always have housing as the last queue item.
    > That will soak this up, avoiding the bug.

    But then aren't I getting free population?


    --
    "Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
    am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
    commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in message news:<3vbj211a4rjfvhbg75s72kfbsd4k83qfqu@4ax.com>...
    > On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:43:43 -0500, Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > Except, however, if you're playing the PC version, which has a bug
    > in the production carryover. Exploiting this bug deliberately --
    > never filling the queue up -- will give you vasts amounts of extra
    > money, without hurting production, which is still carried over. In
    > effect, it counts excess production twice.

    This is the so called "credit cheat". (I am surprised you know
    it...have you played moo2 online? There are still a lot of players at
    kali.) housing as last item was a multiplayer-rule in the
    1.31-version.

    This bug is fixed in the new 1.4 patch (by Lord Brazen). You find this
    patch on his blog: http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/

    > Because of this bug, Unification can outproduce democracy in cash if
    > it exploits it. Not exploiting it on purpose isn't too hard, but
    > avoiding getting any benefit from it by never leaving queues empty
    > isn't easy.

    Unification outproduces demo........but not just because of this
    bug...
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1c93bf04dc96783798a321@216.168.3.44>, rast2@hotmail.com
    says...
    > > Except, however, if you're playing the PC version, which has a bug
    > > in the production carryover. Exploiting this bug deliberately --
    > > never filling the queue up -- will give you vasts amounts of extra
    > > money, without hurting production, which is still carried over. In
    > > effect, it counts excess production twice.
    >
    > Ah. I guess that explains why my money keeps going up even though it
    > says I have negative income. That's so stupid.

    If you don't have anything in a production queue then the work of the
    people on that planet is considered to have been used for producing
    trade goods as default. I seem to remember reading that in the manual
    also.
    I think if you had no workers, and no factories that produce 'pickaxes'
    in their own right, then you would also not derive any income that way.
    I _think_ that the income achieved thusly is not calculated for your
    income prediction and only arrives after you click the 'next turn'
    button.

    > > A safe solution is to always have housing as the last queue item.
    > > That will soak this up, avoiding the bug.
    >
    > But then aren't I getting free population?

    Well, the labour produced by your workers gets turned into population.
    The more workers you have, the more extra population.
    (the mind boggles slightly at visualizing this method on the factory
    floor <g>). And since those workers engaged in building 'housing' are
    not producing the food or science they might be producing at this time I
    would so in no way consider this as 'free'.

    -P.
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    siron wrote on 6 Mar 2005 04:41:42 -0800:
    > This bug is fixed in the new 1.4 patch (by Lord Brazen). You find this
    > patch on his blog: http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/

    Thanks. I installed the DOS version, applied the 1.31 patch, then
    applied the 1.4 patch, and things are looking more fair.


    --
    "Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
    am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
    commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    Rast schrieb:
    > siron wrote on 6 Mar 2005 04:41:42 -0800:
    >
    >>This bug is fixed in the new 1.4 patch (by Lord Brazen). You find this
    >>patch on his blog: http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/
    >
    >
    > Thanks. I installed the DOS version, applied the 1.31 patch, then
    > applied the 1.4 patch, and things are looking more fair.

    If I never intend to play on Kali or LAN and merely play MOO2
    singleplayer - is this unofficial 1.4 patch still useful for me and as
    stable as the 1.31?
    bye
    Michael
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    Michael Romes <NetterNachbar6@lycos.de> wrote in message news:<d0s72v$9nf$00$1@news.t-online.com>...

    > If I never intend to play on Kali or LAN and merely play MOO2
    > singleplayer - is this unofficial 1.4 patch still useful for me and as
    > stable as the 1.31?
    > bye
    > Michael

    1.4 patch and 1.31 can coexist.....so dont worry.....in MP-games 1.4
    is more stable than 1.31.

    I recommend the 1.4 faq:
    http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/2005/01/moo2v140-patch-faq.html

    The above mentioned credit cheat is fixed. This is also useful in
    singleplayer. It is tedious not to cheat by accident in 1.31 (housing
    should always be last item in the prod queue to prevent the bug).

    Stealth bug is also fixed. (But I dont know how often stealth field
    ships are used by the AI.)

    Check out the command line switches (Point 3.2 in the faq). They are
    very popular in MP-Games....mebbe u like them in singleplayer as well.

    (the interesting noreport and noscan switch will prolly be added in
    the next 1.4 version....1.4b20)
    ----------------------
    If u look for different game play.........there are also some mods.

    1.32 mod
    the dc mod
    and the dd mod

    you find them here:
    http://www.moo2.de.vu/

    and here:

    http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    On 6 Mar 2005 04:41:42 -0800, kakophoniker@gmx.de (siron) wrote:

    >Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in message news:<3vbj211a4rjfvhbg75s72kfbsd4k83qfqu@4ax.com>...
    >> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:43:43 -0500, Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Except, however, if you're playing the PC version, which has a bug
    >> in the production carryover. Exploiting this bug deliberately --
    >> never filling the queue up -- will give you vasts amounts of extra
    >> money, without hurting production, which is still carried over. In
    >> effect, it counts excess production twice.
    >
    >This is the so called "credit cheat". (I am surprised you know
    >it...have you played moo2 online? There are still a lot of players at
    >kali.) housing as last item was a multiplayer-rule in the
    >1.31-version.

    Not online, just local multiplayer.

    >This bug is fixed in the new 1.4 patch (by Lord Brazen). You find this
    >patch on his blog: http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/
    >
    >> Because of this bug, Unification can outproduce democracy in cash if
    >> it exploits it. Not exploiting it on purpose isn't too hard, but
    >> avoiding getting any benefit from it by never leaving queues empty
    >> isn't easy.
    >
    >Unification outproduces demo........but not just because of this
    >bug...

    Yeah, but the bug makes it much worse if it is exploited.

    --
    *-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
    ** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
    *Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

    On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:05:45 -0500, Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >Jeffery S. Jones wrote on Sat, 05 Mar 2005 07:16:15 -0600:
    >
    >> Excess production does not go to waste.
    >
    >Thanks.
    >
    >> Except, however, if you're playing the PC version, which has a bug
    >> in the production carryover. Exploiting this bug deliberately --
    >> never filling the queue up -- will give you vasts amounts of extra
    >> money, without hurting production, which is still carried over. In
    >> effect, it counts excess production twice.
    >
    >Ah. I guess that explains why my money keeps going up even though it
    >says I have negative income. That's so stupid.
    >
    >> A safe solution is to always have housing as the last queue item.
    >> That will soak this up, avoiding the bug.
    >
    >But then aren't I getting free population?

    No, as I understand it (and from observation), the housing
    production doesn't get the benefit from this, making it a safe way to
    avoid the problem. Other than, of course, that when population is
    maxed you get no carryover at all, but in that case, try to keep
    refilling the queue so it never empties. Housing is just there to
    make sure that when it does empty, no extra BC end up in your
    treasury.

    --
    *-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
    ** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
    *Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
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