turn based squad game recomendation

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Hi,

Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat game?
I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...

Thanks

Dave
 
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ovioprime <ovioprime@NO___SPAM.netscape.net> once tried to test me with:

> Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat game?
> I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...

Incubation: Time is Running Out & it's expansion "Wilderness levels" or
something like that. If it runs on modern Pc's. I haven't checked. This is
an older game, getting pretty hard to find it.

There was a damn good one that was based on Warhammer 40k but I forgot the
name of it. Also an older game. Chaos Gate or something?

There really hasn't been anything lately that has come out in this genre
other than Fallout Tactics (several year ago, and not well received) and
some expansions to Jagged Alliance 2 (which is highly rated).

Supposedly the Jagged Alliance franchise isn't dead, they do still have
plans to release more games in the series but no release dates have come
out yet.

If you don't mind a D&D theme, Temple of Elemental Evil is essentially
squad-based turn-based tactical RPG.

There was another tactical-RPG just released called Cops 2170 but it seemed
pretty weak, I don't really recommend it but if you want you can check out
my review of the game on http://www.gamechronicles.com

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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9651C31FBB5DEknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> ovioprime <ovioprime@NO___SPAM.netscape.net> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat game?
>> I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...
>
> Incubation: Time is Running Out & it's expansion "Wilderness levels" or
> something like that. If it runs on modern Pc's. I haven't checked. This is
> an older game, getting pretty hard to find it.
>
> There was a damn good one that was based on Warhammer 40k but I forgot the
> name of it. Also an older game. Chaos Gate or something?
>
> There really hasn't been anything lately that has come out in this genre
> other than Fallout Tactics (several year ago, and not well received) and
> some expansions to Jagged Alliance 2 (which is highly rated).
>
> Supposedly the Jagged Alliance franchise isn't dead, they do still have
> plans to release more games in the series but no release dates have come
> out yet.
>
> If you don't mind a D&D theme, Temple of Elemental Evil is essentially
> squad-based turn-based tactical RPG.
>
> There was another tactical-RPG just released called Cops 2170 but it
> seemed
> pretty weak, I don't really recommend it but if you want you can check out
> my review of the game on http://www.gamechronicles.com

I believe Silent Storm is seen as the latter day Jagged Alliance2 which is
seen as the spiritual son of X-com. There is an extensive demo. I believe
there is some odd form of copy protection on some versions.

Shadow Watch and Odium also belong in the genre as older games.

dfs
 
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David Short wrote:
> Shadow Watch and Odium also belong in the genre as older games.

Good call, I had totally forgotten about those games - I really enjoyed both
very much, SW in particular (the opening song alone is worth the price of
admission).

Too bad they were both too darn short and too darn easy even at the highest
level of difficulty. SW can be easily beaten in one afternoon of playing, I
couldnt believe it when the game was over.

Incubation was also good but quite the opposite, I found it impossibly
difficult and never managed to beat it.
 
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Beat me with a horse wiener for saying this but the PS2 has Disgaea,
Phantom Brave, La Pucelle Tactics and Stella Deus hanging around. The
first three are 'cutsey' but quite good, the last has an uncommon
fantasy plot and some inspired character designs.

I was playing Temple of Elemental Evil and was reminded of Final
Fantasy Tactics from back in the day; wondered what was around along
those lines, found Disgaea and... addiction.

If you haven't played Jagged Alliance 2, that's the first one to grab
however.
 

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On 2005-05-10, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

> There was a damn good one that was based on Warhammer 40k but I forgot the
> name of it. Also an older game. Chaos Gate or something?

Warhammer 40K: Chaos Gate.

Unfortunately it has problems running under XP which cause it to
crash unless you remove certain enemies from certain maps.

> Supposedly the Jagged Alliance franchise isn't dead, they do still have
> plans to release more games in the series but no release dates have come
> out yet.

I'm not holding my breath. JA3 is being made by Strategy First
and the development has been out sourced overseas. 80% of the SF
catalogue is garbage :|
 

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On 2005-05-10, David Short <David.No.Short@Spam.Wright.Please.Edu> wrote:

> I believe Silent Storm is seen as the latter day Jagged Alliance2 which is
> seen as the spiritual son of X-com. There is an extensive demo. I believe
> there is some odd form of copy protection on some versions.

Starforce protection which *will* infect your computer. The end
result is issues using your CDROM if the Starforce drivers start
acting up. The removal tool the publisher provided didn't quite
work for everyone.
 
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All the bad stuff about Temple is true, however the combat is the best
turn-based fantasy combat I've ever played. I wish the wrapper around
the combat engine was better in a hundred ways, but for 10$, the
tactical combat is well worth experiencing.
 
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In article <_hRfe.6984$Jc5.1287@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
ovioprime@NO___SPAM.netscape.net says...
> Hi,
>
> Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat game?
> I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave

The Jagged Alliance games might keep you busy/happy for a while :)

-P.
 
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ovioprime wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat game?
> I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave
>

I'm enjoying Silent Storm (only CDN$20). It is a turn-based game like
X-Com but taking place around Europe during WWII.

Babboo
 
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Phantom [makai] Kingdom looks great.

http://phantom-kingdom.com/index.html

Look at all the weapons lying around in the screens!

Yeah Stella Deus is probably a small print run so it might be a good
idea to snap it up, I haven't started it yet but it's sitting there
beckoning. Reviews have been "if you like the genre..." but that's how
almost all Tactics games are rated.

I have not played Pucelle yet, I saw it cheap in the store, like 20$.
 
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BuckFush <notmyre@laddress.com> wrote:
> Incubation was also good but quite the opposite, I found it impossibly
> difficult and never managed to beat it.

On the highest difficulty level there were maps where you had to do
things in a certain order, or you'd get overrun. There was a great one
where the bugs come out of the vents, and you had to position guys with
bayonets at the entrances because those were the only sure kills

On the lower difficulty levels it was a matter of concentrating your
firepower. Quite a bit of fun actually. I did get it to work under
Win2K a few years back, though I don't think I ever successfully got
the wilderness extension to work (even under Win98 -- I must have been
missing something).

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Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
> There really hasn't been anything lately that has come out in this genre
> other than Fallout Tactics (several year ago, and not well received) and
> some expansions to Jagged Alliance 2 (which is highly rated).

JA2: Unfinished Business was short and very linear, but not bad.

JA2: Wildfire wasn't my cup of tea.

> If you don't mind a D&D theme, Temple of Elemental Evil is essentially
> squad-based turn-based tactical RPG.

I played the demo and then read some reviews. Every review, even the
enthusiastic ones, complained about bugs. Many of them mentioned bugs
still being there after the patches were applied. Crash to desktop,
saved games that won't load, as well as endemic problems like NPCs who
help themselves to treasure that they can't use, won't let go of, and
that leaves them in "encumbered" state for the rest of the game.

I can recommend Silent Storm: Sentinels. It's like Silent Storm but
without the brain damage (they added a post-mission item collection screen,
made engineers and medics useful, allow you to buy & sell excess stuff,
allow accelerated display of movement to cut down on wait times, etc.).
Unfortunately it only seems to be available in the "Gold Edition", which
includes the original, and in North America you have to get an imported
UK edition.

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ovioprime wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat
> game? I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...
>
> Thanks

They don't make them any more.
 
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 01:38:41 GMT, "BuckFush" <notmyre@laddress.com>
wrote:

>David Short wrote:
>> Shadow Watch and Odium also belong in the genre as older games.

>Good call, I had totally forgotten about those games - I really enjoyed both
>very much, SW in particular (the opening song alone is worth the price of
>admission).

>Too bad they were both too darn short and too darn easy even at the highest
>level of difficulty. SW can be easily beaten in one afternoon of playing, I
>couldnt believe it when the game was over.

The point of Shadow Watch was that it was like a choose your own
adventure. You could replay it taking different paths. I played it
through about 6 times and in fact I'm just starting another game. Plus
You couldn't get close to upgrading all the agents in 1 game.

It would have been nice if it allowed user created campaigns and maps.
 

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littlemute wrote:
> Beat me with a horse wiener for saying this but the PS2 has Disgaea,
> Phantom Brave, La Pucelle Tactics and Stella Deus hanging around. The
> first three are 'cutsey' but quite good, the last has an uncommon
> fantasy plot and some inspired character designs.

Disgea was fun. Lookin' forward to their next game, makai
kingdom or some such. Phantom brave ain't bad, but disgea
was better I think. Really disliked La Pucelle Tactics
though, hated the way they handled combat. Returned that
one. Didn't know about Stella Deus, I'll go grab that
today! Glad ya posted. =>


>
> I was playing Temple of Elemental Evil and was reminded of Final
> Fantasy Tactics from back in the day; wondered what was around along
> those lines, found Disgaea and... addiction.
>


Yeah, I loved FFT. I have to go back and replay it every
year just to satisify some strange inner need to revisit it.
hehe

Leo
 
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 13:11:49 -0700, Babboo
<robert_cocking@hotmail.com> wrote:


>I'm enjoying Silent Storm (only CDN$20). It is a turn-based game like
>X-Com but taking place around Europe during WWII.
>
>Babboo

It's good until it turns to sci-fi then it gets ridiculously hard.
 
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Andy McFadden <fadden@fadden.com> once tried to test me with:

> I played the demo and then read some reviews. Every review, even the
> enthusiastic ones, complained about bugs. Many of them mentioned bugs
> still being there after the patches were applied. Crash to desktop,
> saved games that won't load, as well as endemic problems like NPCs who
> help themselves to treasure that they can't use, won't let go of, and
> that leaves them in "encumbered" state for the rest of the game.
>

A lot of the problems were fixed by patches, and there were some fan made
patches to fix some more things, like the NPC-grabbers.

But even with the warts, at $10 street price, it's worth a look.

--

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Codex wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 13:11:49 -0700, Babboo
> <robert_cocking@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >I'm enjoying Silent Storm (only CDN$20). It is a turn-based game
like
> >X-Com but taking place around Europe during WWII.
> >
> >Babboo
>
> It's good until it turns to sci-fi then it gets ridiculously hard.

That's been my problem with all those games. I've tried most of them.
I played various Xcoms, Jagged Alliance, Fallout, Chaos Gate, and some
horror one with a bunch of cultists and zombies that I forget the name
of.

In every single case the game is fun for a while and then the missions
ramp up to the point where you need to be an expert and utilize every
last action point and round of ammo to its fullest. It gets to the
point where the missions just really bog down and become more
frustrating than fun.

I read all about Silent Storm and it sounded nice, but I didn't get it.
I figured it'd be just like the rest -- fun for half the game, then
more and more tedious the further along you get.

I do like the genre. I wish there was a game that kept the fast & fun
feel of the earlier missions all the way through and didn't get to that
"one misstep and it's mission over" level that they all seem to get to.
I enjoy RTS games too, and some of them have the same problem in their
own way -- they get to the point where you have to be ultra-efficient,
if you aren't building things in exactly the right order and moving
them to the right locations you will lose. But there are also plenty
of RTS games that manage to up the difficulty throughout the campaign
while still allowing the player to have fun with doing different
things. So far I haven't found any turn based squad level game that
does.
 
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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> But even with the warts, at $10 street price, it's worth a look.

In the one size may not fit all category....This may be true of the original
poster, but long ago I reached the point where what limited my gaming for me
wasn't money, but time. Don't get me wrong, I like $10 games as much as
anybody, but I would rather have a good short $30 game than 3 long
"interesting failures" at $10 a piece.

The demo of toee was enough to let me know I wouldn't be slogging through
even half the game. That may not be true of the original poster.......

dfs
 
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patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
> In every single case the game is fun for a while and then the missions
> ramp up to the point where you need to be an expert and utilize every
> last action point and round of ammo to its fullest. It gets to the
> point where the missions just really bog down and become more
> frustrating than fun.
[...]
> I do like the genre. I wish there was a game that kept the fast & fun
> feel of the earlier missions all the way through and didn't get to that
> "one misstep and it's mission over" level that they all seem to get to.
> I enjoy RTS games too, and some of them have the same problem in their
> own way -- they get to the point where you have to be ultra-efficient,
> if you aren't building things in exactly the right order and moving
> them to the right locations you will lose. But there are also plenty
> of RTS games that manage to up the difficulty throughout the campaign
> while still allowing the player to have fun with doing different
> things. So far I haven't found any turn based squad level game that
> does.

I do think that a game needs to push back at you. If there's only a
slight chance of losing, it's not as much fun.

That said, I've always regarded X-Com as having a pretty hairy design flaw:
even with good armor, you will have people killed in a single shot by
walking into a room with an alien with fast reactions. Depending on the
room layout, there is no way to avoid it. You have two ways around it:
(1) save, reload, and knock out a wall or enter a different way; (2)
keep a supply of "cannon fodder" soldiers with whom you do your scouting.

In JA2, playing on "expert" level, my guys get shot up all the time,
but unless I do something silly (like run out into the open) they rarely
drop below 50% health. I haven't found the need to be ultra-efficient,
just the need to employ solid tactics and not attack targets that are
too difficult (e.g. attacking the Meduna SAM site before finding rifles).
Hardened targets may require strategic planning, i.e. attacking at day or
night, or hitting a target with more than six guys. The one exception
to this is the opening of JA2:Unfinished Business, in which you really
do need to get everything just right.

You can play JA2 lots of different ways. Sneak up and throw knives,
have forward spotters and snipers, unload with heavy weapons and roll
back, etc. It's more about providing mutual support fire and, in
missions with trees, hitting the bad guys from more than one angle while
preventing them from doing the same.

Most strategy games, when played on the "easy" skill level, are quite
forgiving. If you're regularly getting blasted into small pieces, you
need to re-examine your tactics.

The most blatant example of what you describe as "one misstep and it's
mission over" is Massive Assault, which is more of a puzzle game than a
strategy game. There is a specific set of moves that lead to victory, and
deviation results in failure. However, that's what the game is all about.
(Which is why I finally gave up on it after beating my head against one
level for an hour.)

I have a similar but different grip against some RTSs, e.g. Age of Empires II.
If you don't finish some of the campaign missions by a certain time, you're
in trouble, because both sides will run out of resources, but the
computer is allowed more advanced technology. Unlike Total Annihilation,
where (in most cases -- Core mission 2 or 3 is an exception) you can build
what you want as you want and then go hunting. There are lots of different
ways to set up your base for the Korgoth Encounter, most of which will
get you blasted to pieces; you're not confined to a specific set of moves,
but there are certain things you need to do to deal with the threat.

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On 11 May 2005 06:54:47 -0700, patrick.barnes@standardregister.com
wrote:
>That's been my problem with all those games. I've tried most of them.
>I played various Xcoms, Jagged Alliance, Fallout, Chaos Gate, and some
>horror one with a bunch of cultists and zombies that I forget the name
>of.

If anyone remembers the title of the cultist/zombie game Patrick
mentioned above, drop me an e-mail or a followup post. Sounds like my
kind of game.

Thanks,
E.G.
 
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blah blah blah Mon, 09 May 2005 22:15:22 GMT, ovioprime
<ovioprime@NO___SPAM.netscape.net> blah:

>Hi,
>
>Can someone recommend a really good turn based squad level combat game?
>I liked XCom and infestation a long time ago...


Taskforce is actually quite a good XCom clone:
http://www.treality.freeserve.co.uk/taskforce.html

Independent coders with long experience make good games.


You can also google for 'Brigade E5'.. it's not finished yet but their
demo is something like the real next JA game. Forget SF. Their JA3 is
planned as a Combat Mission-like phased-turns bore. And it's developed
by a really fourth-rate design studio.
E5 mercs and story are by an original JA designer. Gameplay is very
original & most brainy. Sort of time-sliced ('smart pause' and slo-mo)
super-realistic 3D battles. It's much better than the old 2D
turns/tiles/APs dogma for strategy. Demo has only one sector plus
tutorial but there screenshots showed a huge JA2-like country map and
multiplayer as well.
 
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"David Short" <David.No.Short@Spam.Wright.Please.Edu> once tried to test
me with:

> In the one size may not fit all category....This may be true of the
> original poster, but long ago I reached the point where what limited
> my gaming for me wasn't money, but time. Don't get me wrong, I like
> $10 games as much as anybody, but I would rather have a good short $30
> game than 3 long "interesting failures" at $10 a piece.

The way I judge if I got a good value or not is how many hours of fun I had
before the game got tedious and I uninstalled it. If I can get a $2/hour
ratio, I'm pretty happy.

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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9653E98E18164knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> "David Short" <David.No.Short@Spam.Wright.Please.Edu> once tried to test
>
> > In the one size may not fit all category....This may be true of the
> > original poster, but long ago I reached the point where what limited
> > my gaming for me wasn't money, but time. Don't get me wrong, I like
> > $10 games as much as anybody, but I would rather have a good short $30
> > game than 3 long "interesting failures" at $10 a piece.
>
> The way I judge if I got a good value or not is how many hours of fun I
had
> before the game got tedious and I uninstalled it. If I can get a $2/hour
> ratio, I'm pretty happy.

That's entirely reasonable. Lessee at $10 for TOEEE that would be 5 hours or
in my case about 3 or 4 good gaming sessions, Just enough time to get used
to the interface and a couple of quirks in the tactical battle engine. Or to
think of it another way...just a bit more time than I actually gave the free
demo to hook me and lure me into the whole thing.

dfs