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Q2: 4 mics - 1 guitar cab

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Anonymous
March 9, 2005 11:34:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi!

I wanna mic my Marshall 6100 guitar cab with 2 mics that allow me to spread
it L&R.
I have 4 mics:
- Shure SM57
- Shure SM58S (=switchable)
- Neumann KMi
- Neumann U87.
I use a Marshall 6100 head as the power amp (avoiding/leaving out the
pre-amp section) and a MESA/BOOGIE FormulaPre pre-amp. As guitars go I
mainly use a Gibson LP and a PRS Custom 24. I like the the highly detalied,
original sounding, dealed with not too much FX sound of Gary Moore and
Robben Ford (maybe Slash of the early G'nR).
My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I know the
best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics because I
wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time (no
doubling).
Any advice are regarded!
Thanks a lot

bence

More about : mics guitar cab

Anonymous
March 10, 2005 1:41:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Locsmándi Bence wrote:

[Miking a cab with two microphones]

> My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I know the
> best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics because I
> wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time (no
> doubling).

I am actually doing the same thing when recording guitars. Try to get a
pair of closely matched microphones. The guitar speakers I've miked all
had slightly different frequency responses, so prepare to do some EQing
later.

I've tried AB and XY, but stuck with XY because of the better mono
compatibility.

And remove the grille when recording.

Johann
--
das Usenet ist keine Party, und erst recht keine Party der
Real-Namen-Fetischisten und Knöpfli-Drücker-Schikaneria.
(Aribert "Happy Oyster" Deckers in <3dda46c1.4741620@news.orgatech.de>)
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 1:41:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks Johann!

Some notices for your letter:
- what is AB and XY. Sorry if it sounds/reads silly....
- I can't remove the grille from the cab (it's a Marshall).
Thanks again

bence

"Johann Burkard" <johannburkard@nexgo.de> az alábbiakat írta a következo
hírüzenetben: 422f6d81$0$26538$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net...
> Locsmándi Bence wrote:
>
> [Miking a cab with two microphones]
>
>> My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I know
>> the
>> best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics
>> because I
>> wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time (no
>> doubling).
>
> I am actually doing the same thing when recording guitars. Try to get a
> pair of closely matched microphones. The guitar speakers I've miked all
> had slightly different frequency responses, so prepare to do some EQing
> later.
>
> I've tried AB and XY, but stuck with XY because of the better mono
> compatibility.
>
> And remove the grille when recording.
>
> Johann
> --
> das Usenet ist keine Party, und erst recht keine Party der
> Real-Namen-Fetischisten und Knöpfli-Drücker-Schikaneria.
> (Aribert "Happy Oyster" Deckers in <3dda46c1.4741620@news.orgatech.de>)
Related resources
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 3:32:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Locsmándi Bence wrote:
> Some notices for your letter:
> - what is AB and XY. Sorry if it sounds/reads silly....

AB and XY are microphone positions for stereo recording. Google should help.

> - I can't remove the grille from the cab (it's a Marshall).

Well they put the grille to the cab, so it must go off somehow, right?

Johann
--
das Usenet ist keine Party, und erst recht keine Party der
Real-Namen-Fetischisten und Knöpfli-Drücker-Schikaneria.
(Aribert "Happy Oyster" Deckers in <3dda46c1.4741620@news.orgatech.de>)
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 3:48:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Locsmándi Bence wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I wanna mic my Marshall 6100 guitar cab with 2 mics that allow me to
spread
> it L&R.
> I have 4 mics:
> - Shure SM57
> - Shure SM58S (=switchable)
> - Neumann KMi
> - Neumann U87.
> I use a Marshall 6100 head as the power amp (avoiding/leaving out the

> pre-amp section) and a MESA/BOOGIE FormulaPre pre-amp. As guitars go
I
> mainly use a Gibson LP and a PRS Custom 24. I like the the highly
detalied,
> original sounding, dealed with not too much FX sound of Gary Moore
and
> Robben Ford (maybe Slash of the early G'nR).
> My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I
know the
> best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics
because I
> wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time
(no
> doubling).
> Any advice are regarded!
> Thanks a lot

First off there is no way you are going to create a stereo image by
creative micing on an amp in mono that will have the same effectiveness
as double tracking your parts will. There are a lot of things you
could try for multiple micing the cabinet/speakers, ways of getting
more interesting textures or depth of sound, you could use close and
far mic combinations and pan them left and right. But none of those
things in of themselves will replace simply double tracking your parts.

You could use effects, take your guitar track centered and run it
through dual short delays panned left and right, maybe with a tad bit
of pitch shift up on the left and shift down on the right. Some Metal
guys used to just send a single delay left to the original track right,
which made the Roland SDE 1000 delay popular for a while - I always
*hated* that. You could use two totally different amps when you track
and pan them left and right, maybe delaying one a bit from the other.

But it ain't gonna have the equivalent overall impact simple double
tracking of your parts will give you. And if you wanna be a musician,
you oughta be down with having the chops to double track your parts all
day long, really.

But of course, if you're *already* a Rock Star, you could just *pay
me* to do it for you... <g>

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
(... and Guitarist, songwriter, blah blah blah... )
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 3:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Locsmándi Bence wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I wanna mic my Marshall 6100 guitar cab with 2 mics that allow me to
spread
> it L&R.
> I have 4 mics:
> - Shure SM57
> - Shure SM58S (=switchable)
> - Neumann KMi
> - Neumann U87.
> I use a Marshall 6100 head as the power amp (avoiding/leaving out the

> pre-amp section) and a MESA/BOOGIE FormulaPre pre-amp. As guitars go
I
> mainly use a Gibson LP and a PRS Custom 24. I like the the highly
detalied,
> original sounding, dealed with not too much FX sound of Gary Moore
and
> Robben Ford (maybe Slash of the early G'nR).
> My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I
know the
> best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics
because I
> wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time
(no
> doubling).
> Any advice are regarded!
> Thanks a lot
>
> bence

If I were you, I might try the 58 about a foot from the front of the
cabinet, about a foot left of center, and the U87 about a foot right of
center. The mic differences should negate the tendency to sound mono
and give some sense of width. Pan them hard left and right. (Make sure
they are the same distance from the speakers!)
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 5:37:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Locsmándi Bence wrote:
> Thanks a lot blackburst!
> Gonna try it!
> Finally a man who seems to understand my point of view and doesn't
want to
> redirect me towards 1 mic setup...

> <blackburst@aol.com> > If I were you, I might try the 58 about a foot
from the front of the
> cabinet, about a foot left of center, and the U87 about a foot right
of
> center. The mic differences should negate the tendency to sound mono
> and give some sense of width. Pan them hard left and right. (Make
sure
> they are the same distance from the speakers!)

Well like I said, there are a lot of ways to use multiple mics
creatively, sure you can use a comb filtering effect like that for
psuedo stereo. Not the same as double tracking though, but there are
other ways to go if you want a stereo effect without double tracking.
Most of them have little to do with creative micing though.

BTW the KMi is an interchangible micpre body of an older Neumann
series of small diaphraghm mics, add a KK83 cap and you get a KM83i
(omni), with the cardiod capsule you have a KM84i and with the
hypercardiod cap (which has a *lot* of low end rolled off so you can
use it for speech) you have a KM85i.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 12:02:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, I was a rock star here in my country.
I know how double tracking goes, I use it sometimes but sometimes I just
need someting more.
That's why asking. I have good results with this 2 mics setup, only wanted
to know If there's something forgotten or missed out. Nowadays I usually
always record my amp with 2 mics then decide how to use that 2 tracks.
Anyway, anybody knows the mic Neumann KMi? AI just can't find any info about
it, only about Neumann KM84 witch seems identical to mine.
Thanks for all for answering my thread!

bence

"WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> az alábbiakat írta a következo hírüzenetben:
1110487717.838877.56840@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Locsmándi Bence wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I wanna mic my Marshall 6100 guitar cab with 2 mics that allow me to
spread
> it L&R.
> I have 4 mics:
> - Shure SM57
> - Shure SM58S (=switchable)
> - Neumann KMi
> - Neumann U87.
> I use a Marshall 6100 head as the power amp (avoiding/leaving out the

> pre-amp section) and a MESA/BOOGIE FormulaPre pre-amp. As guitars go
I
> mainly use a Gibson LP and a PRS Custom 24. I like the the highly
detalied,
> original sounding, dealed with not too much FX sound of Gary Moore
and
> Robben Ford (maybe Slash of the early G'nR).
> My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I
know the
> best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics
because I
> wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time
(no
> doubling).
> Any advice are regarded!
> Thanks a lot

First off there is no way you are going to create a stereo image by
creative micing on an amp in mono that will have the same effectiveness
as double tracking your parts will. There are a lot of things you
could try for multiple micing the cabinet/speakers, ways of getting
more interesting textures or depth of sound, you could use close and
far mic combinations and pan them left and right. But none of those
things in of themselves will replace simply double tracking your parts.

You could use effects, take your guitar track centered and run it
through dual short delays panned left and right, maybe with a tad bit
of pitch shift up on the left and shift down on the right. Some Metal
guys used to just send a single delay left to the original track right,
which made the Roland SDE 1000 delay popular for a while - I always
*hated* that. You could use two totally different amps when you track
and pan them left and right, maybe delaying one a bit from the other.

But it ain't gonna have the equivalent overall impact simple double
tracking of your parts will give you. And if you wanna be a musician,
you oughta be down with having the chops to double track your parts all
day long, really.

But of course, if you're *already* a Rock Star, you could just *pay
me* to do it for you... <g>

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
(... and Guitarist, songwriter, blah blah blah... )
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 12:05:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks a lot blackburst!
Gonna try it!
Finally a man who seems to understand my point of view and doesn't want to
redirect me towards 1 mic setup...

b.

<blackburst@aol.com> az alábbiakat írta a következo hírüzenetben:
1110488172.452964.19310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Locsmándi Bence wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I wanna mic my Marshall 6100 guitar cab with 2 mics that allow me to
spread
> it L&R.
> I have 4 mics:
> - Shure SM57
> - Shure SM58S (=switchable)
> - Neumann KMi
> - Neumann U87.
> I use a Marshall 6100 head as the power amp (avoiding/leaving out the

> pre-amp section) and a MESA/BOOGIE FormulaPre pre-amp. As guitars go
I
> mainly use a Gibson LP and a PRS Custom 24. I like the the highly
detalied,
> original sounding, dealed with not too much FX sound of Gary Moore
and
> Robben Ford (maybe Slash of the early G'nR).
> My question is: what 2 mics to use and how to set-up, place them. I
know the
> best way to use an SM57 touching the grille but I wanna use 2 mics
because I
> wanna do a riffing, stereo-sounding guitar part playing it only time
(no
> doubling).
> Any advice are regarded!
> Thanks a lot
>
> bence

If I were you, I might try the 58 about a foot from the front of the
cabinet, about a foot left of center, and the U87 about a foot right of
center. The mic differences should negate the tendency to sound mono
and give some sense of width. Pan them hard left and right. (Make sure
they are the same distance from the speakers!)
!