Pros and Cons of Sid Meier's Pirates!

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Talking about the new release here, not the original.

I've been in a piratey mood lately, ARRGG, brought on by the cute little
shareware game Tradewinds 2. That was just an appetizer, though.

I need the low-down on SM's latest booty. Someone fill me in, or I'll be
forced to walk the plank blind. Ahoy!

--

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Knight37 wrote:
> Talking about the new release here, not the original.
>
> I've been in a piratey mood lately, ARRGG, brought on by the cute little
> shareware game Tradewinds 2. That was just an appetizer, though.
>
> I need the low-down on SM's latest booty. Someone fill me in, or I'll be
> forced to walk the plank blind. Ahoy!
>

I assume you played the original Pirates either on the C-64 or the early
IBM's...

If so the new one is identical except the graphics have been updated and
you can no longer use your ship to bombard forts and storm them - you
must fight land battles (which are slow but better than those in the
original - but not by much).

Same quests, same maps, same ships, same governors, a bunch of extra
"stuff" to buy or have the govs daughters give you.

Same game - really - almost exactly the same game.
Same fun as the original.

--
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Werewolf <nunya@no-way.net> once tried to test me with:

> I assume you played the original Pirates either on the C-64 or the early
> IBM's...
>
> If so the new one is identical except the graphics have been updated and
> you can no longer use your ship to bombard forts and storm them - you
> must fight land battles (which are slow but better than those in the
> original - but not by much).
>
> Same quests, same maps, same ships, same governors, a bunch of extra
> "stuff" to buy or have the govs daughters give you.
>
> Same game - really - almost exactly the same game.
> Same fun as the original.

Actually, no I missed the first one and by the time I'd found out about it
it was too dated for me to get into. What types of quests do you get? Is
the game mostly about combat or is it more about trade?

--

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Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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Knight37 wrote:
> Werewolf <nunya@no-way.net> once tried to test me with:
>
>> I assume you played the original Pirates either on the C-64 or the
>> early IBM's...
>>
>> If so the new one is identical except the graphics have been
updated
>> and you can no longer use your ship to bombard forts and storm them
>> - you must fight land battles (which are slow but better than those
>> in the original - but not by much).
>>
>> Same quests, same maps, same ships, same governors, a bunch of
extra
>> "stuff" to buy or have the govs daughters give you.
>>
>> Same game - really - almost exactly the same game.
>> Same fun as the original.
>
> Actually, no I missed the first one and by the time I'd found out
> about it it was too dated for me to get into. What types of quests
do
> you get? Is the game mostly about combat or is it more about trade?

Trade? That's not a very pirate-like behavior. Though in theory you
could. It's really an action game, not strategy, so trading is pretty
much out.

Basically, you start with one ship and sail around and attack other
ships. The first part is a sea battle sequence, then you board and get
to sword fight (if you didn't kill all the crew, or most of them).

Then you can either sink the ship or keep it. And you basically
repeat this until your crew gets angry at which point you need to go
to port and divy up the gold.

You pretty much repeat that until you have to retire due to injury.

Though beyond that, you can also assault cities. This involves a very
simple turn based battle.

You can also court women. This is the big advancement over the
original. Basically, you have to dance well to earn their favor. This
is quite tricky. It's sort of like DDR or something. She does a move
and you have to follow it really quickly.

The quests are generally pretty simple. You get info on a lost
relative or lost city from your girlfriend (or sometimes other
sources) which consists of a part of a map. You have to puzzle out
where the map is via the use of landmarks.
 
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On 20 May 2005 03:59:28 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>Werewolf <nunya@no-way.net> once tried to test me with:
>
>> I assume you played the original Pirates either on the C-64 or the early
>> IBM's...
>>
>> If so the new one is identical except the graphics have been updated and
>> you can no longer use your ship to bombard forts and storm them - you
>> must fight land battles (which are slow but better than those in the
>> original - but not by much).

Land combat tactics are nicer. The game patch speeds up the flow of
combat (slowed mostly by the animations).

You can bombard forts, but only on the main game map screen. If the
fort is sufficiently reduced and you have enough men, you'll go to a
swordfight with the defending captain rather than land combat.

>> Same quests, same maps, same ships, same governors, a bunch of extra
>> "stuff" to buy or have the govs daughters give you.
>>
>> Same game - really - almost exactly the same game.
>> Same fun as the original.
>
>Actually, no I missed the first one and by the time I'd found out about it
>it was too dated for me to get into. What types of quests do you get? Is
>the game mostly about combat or is it more about trade?

Combat rules. Trade is possible, but not profitable enough to
compete with just taking stuff. Trade is one area where things are
less effective than the original -- but the game never did emphasize
trading. The name is *Pirates!*, after all, not Traders!

The major quests all involve getting pieces of a map (which will
show details but not the general location (closest city) until you get
all of it), then going to that location. How you get the pieces
varies -- you can buy some, or get them from doing other missions.

The minor quests involve either finding a ship with a named
villian/pirate -- you're given clues as to their whereabouts, then
must get there and intercept the ship -- or find people in a city
(generally at the tavern in town).

There are sailing missions, where you must escort a ship to its
destination. Almost always, some enemy (of that nation, not
necessarily of you personally) will attack en route.

Most of the things you do affect your reputation and status. Each
of the four major nations tracks that separately. Hitting ships of
one nation make that one dislike you, enemies of that nation like you
for that, and neutrals don't care.


The game isn't especially deep. Because of that, it is very
accessible -- it is easy to get into playing it, and the core goal of
attacking ships and taking treasure is entertaining. Both ship combat
and sword fighting -- you almost always end up in a duel when you
board, that is how they resolve the boarding combat -- require
tactical skills, with some reflexes but they *aren't* arcade-style
combat.


Everything that made it a good game for the 90s is still there.
They didn't make the mistake of creating an entirely different gaming
experience. The sound and graphics are much better, but the heart of
the game play is unchanged.

If you're looking for a game which gives you plenty of swashbuckling
combat, along with a bit of diplomacy and romance, this will fit the
bill. It is *not* a detailed simulation of pirate economics or even
pirate/privateer strategy, let alone trading strategy (other than buy
low in poor cities and sell high in rich ones, there isn't much to the
trading game).

The game has a pirate movie (animated) look and feel. There isn't
any blood or gore -- this is an "E for everyone" game. Kids can play
this thing easily, as the easiest difficulty level is quite easy.
More skilled gamers need to change difficulty level in order to have a
serious challenge, but the easiest level is essentially a tutorial,
and worth running through a while in order to learn how things work.


--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 
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On 20 May 2005 03:59:28 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>Actually, no I missed the first one and by the time I'd found out about it
>it was too dated for me to get into. What types of quests do you get? Is
>the game mostly about combat or is it more about trade?

Combat. You'd have to be insane to try to make money as a trader.
The gameplay is pure unadulterated 8-bit era, except for a new dancing
module (which is great fun... no, really!) Whether that's a good or a
bad thing depends on the size of your nostalgia goggles.

Gameplay is *extremely* simple (in the sense of non-complex) and
repetitive but also *extremely* challenging on higher difficulty
levels. You'll lose most games when dueling an enemy captain, which
is basically a poorly realized fighting game played on a PC keyboard.
You can play on easier levels, of course, but in that case the main
challenge is to stay awake through the repetitive gameplay.

There's only a handful of quests -- you'll know them all in a few
hours -- and the game-winning missions have you hunting down &
fighting the same guy several times over in different corners of the
Carribean. Like I said... simplistic 8-bit era gameplay.

That said, the game has a fantastic comic-book-style presentation and
will be great fun for a week or so. Just don't expect it to last.
--
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On 2005-05-20, Werewolf <nunya@no-way.net> wrote:

> Same game - really - almost exactly the same game.
> Same fun as the original.

Some noticeable differences:

* Silver Train is gone or at least I've never seen it.

* Treasure fleet won't yield as much and you'd have to catch it
early on before other pirates hit it.

* The scoring system is more transparent. There are a number of
other pirates to hunt down, family members to rescue, and lost
cities to find. Unlike the original Pirates! you can now gauge
your progress.

* They've added "items" to the game which can be bought or won.

* They've added a "Rogue" difficulty level which is brutal.

* They've added a sneaking mini game when you sneak into a town.

* They've added a dancing mini game with a governors daughter.

* They've upgraded the fencing mini game to be more balanced.

Tons more.

Also it has a more disney feel to it than the original on the
C64. I seem to recall a text pop up in the original would tell
you that your men torture and interrogate settlers to get gold
from them after raiding a settlement. That's gone and there's no
hint of brutality in the entire game.

My first game with the remake lasted over 18 hours before I
almost passed out. It's worth a purchase.
 

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On 2005-05-20, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

> Actually, no I missed the first one and by the time I'd found out about it
> it was too dated for me to get into. What types of quests do you get? Is
> the game mostly about combat or is it more about trade?

Get Vice a C64 emulator and play the original game. Try c64.com
or c64.net for a copy of the C64 disk images. The original is
timeless and I will still go back to it.
 
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On Fri, 20 May 2005 05:17:50 -0500, Jeffery S. Jones
<jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote:

> The game isn't especially deep. Because of that, it is very
>accessible -- it is easy to get into playing it, and the core goal of
>attacking ships and taking treasure is entertaining. Both ship combat
>and sword fighting -- you almost always end up in a duel when you
>board, that is how they resolve the boarding combat -- require
>tactical skills, with some reflexes but they *aren't* arcade-style
>combat.

??? They most certainly are. They require you to very quickly hit
the right key in response to the actions of the enemy character on the
screen. What's your definition of arcade-style combat?
--
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On Fri, 20 May 2005 13:06:56 +0200, Christoph Nahr
<christoph.nahr@kynosarges.de> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 05:17:50 -0500, Jeffery S. Jones
><jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote:
>
>> The game isn't especially deep. Because of that, it is very
>>accessible -- it is easy to get into playing it, and the core goal of
>>attacking ships and taking treasure is entertaining. Both ship combat
>>and sword fighting -- you almost always end up in a duel when you
>>board, that is how they resolve the boarding combat -- require
>>tactical skills, with some reflexes but they *aren't* arcade-style
>>combat.
>
>??? They most certainly are. They require you to very quickly hit
>the right key in response to the actions of the enemy character on the
>screen. What's your definition of arcade-style combat?

Your key hit doesn't instantly perform a move, every time. There
are of course no combos, as any arcade fighting game would have, and
there are no move commands at all. You can't run, push forward or
back off, or a whole lot of other things which a fighting arcade game
would have.

Instead, what you have is a sort of real time rock-paper-scissors
fencing thing. It is *good* for the game -- it is how the original
worked -- but it isn't close to arcade combat. You could fight using
a mouse alone for control if you wanted.

At the highest levels of difficulty, you need pretty good reflexes
to do this well. But it is nothing comparable to the skill set needed
to master a fighting arcade game.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 
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Christoph Nahr <christoph.nahr@kynosarges.de> once tried to test me
with:

> On 20 May 2005 03:59:28 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, no I missed the first one and by the time I'd found out
>>about it it was too dated for me to get into. What types of quests do
>>you get? Is the game mostly about combat or is it more about trade?

> That said, the game has a fantastic comic-book-style presentation and
> will be great fun for a week or so. Just don't expect it to last.

Not sure if this is what I'm looking for or not but thanks a lot for the
info, at least I know what I'd be getting into!

--

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Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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"Jeremy Reaban" <trancejeremy@yahoo.com> once tried to test me with:

> You can also court women. This is the big advancement over the
> original. Basically, you have to dance well to earn their favor. This
> is quite tricky. It's sort of like DDR or something. She does a move
> and you have to follow it really quickly.

Dance Dance Revolution, eh? Heh, sounds like this game is a bunch of mini-
games strung together. ;)

--

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Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> once tried to test me with:

> The game has a pirate movie (animated) look and feel. There isn't
> any blood or gore -- this is an "E for everyone" game. Kids can play
> this thing easily, as the easiest difficulty level is quite easy.
> More skilled gamers need to change difficulty level in order to have a
> serious challenge, but the easiest level is essentially a tutorial,
> and worth running through a while in order to learn how things work.
>

Thank you for your response, I may try it.

--

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Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> Get Vice a C64 emulator and play the original game. Try c64.com
> or c64.net for a copy of the C64 disk images. The original is
> timeless and I will still go back to it.

That's not a bad idea either. Thanks!

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

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On 22 May 2005 21:54:30 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Get Vice a C64 emulator and play the original game. Try c64.com
>> or c64.net for a copy of the C64 disk images. The original is
>> timeless and I will still go back to it.
>
>That's not a bad idea either. Thanks!

Or just pick up Pirates! Gold for Windows from Home of the Underdogs
http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?gameid=2346

It has graphics and sound roughly equal to what the Original version
had on the Amiga, which was the best of the original Pirates! ports.

--
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of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft