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From a modem router to 4 AP router

Last response: in Wireless Networking
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February 14, 2013 8:16:35 AM

Good Day everyone!

I was connecting my warehouses with the wireless network becoz of the IPCAMS and data storages.

now my ISP had a modem-router+wifi wich is branded zyxel. The Zyxel is connected in my office and I pull out a 4 line for my warehouse wich I use is D-LINK DIR-505 and setting it to AP mode not router.
sometimes when I connected to my Wifi on my office wich is the zyxel's wifi and my laptop appears no internet connection and when I entering the router 192.168.0.1 it went to DLINK's router page. but when I use my smartphone connected to zyxel's wifi it works well with an internet access. anything wrong?

or can you guys teach me how to setup my wireless connection to my warehouse wich can data transfering with my pc's inside the office. so it mean I can't setup my DLINK's to a router coz when I connect to it I can't view my PC's inside the main modem router zyxel.

More about : modem router router

February 14, 2013 12:27:24 PM

If you're using a second router as simply an AP, make sure to disable the second router's DHCP server! Or else you'll risk some clients being misconfigured (they'll get their configuration information from the wrong router).
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February 15, 2013 12:19:35 AM

Thanks eibgrad, now my wifis work properly after I changed those 4 AP's dynamic IP into static IP.

and now I got a 5 different SSID including my office. can I just make those 4 AP's SSID the same?

**e.g. my 4 AP's SSID named Wifi@Bldg01, Wifi@Bldg02, Wifi@Bldg03 and Wifi@Bldg04.
**when I standing on warehouse building 1, I can detect SSID building 1&2 wifi
**when I standing on warehouse building 2, I can detect SSID building 1,2&3 wifi
**when I standing on warehouse building 3, I can detect SSID building 2,3&4 wifi
**when I standing on warehouse building 4, I can detect SSID building 3&4 wifi
can I named all my 4 AP's SSID to "WIFI@WH"


so that I can just see 2 SSID in my phone just WIFI@OFFICE and WIFI@WH
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February 15, 2013 1:38:12 AM

You shouldn't only use static IPs on those APs. You should also disable their respective DHCP *servers*. The ONLY AP that should be running a DHCP server is the primary router. I hope that was clear.

Yes, you can use the same SSID, and as long as the wireless security is the identical (WPA/WPA2, password, etc.), then you've created a form of wireless roaming.
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February 15, 2013 3:05:47 AM

thanks~ maybe DIR-505 AP interface that automatically turned off the DHCP. I don't see any DHCP that can set off. but when I changed it to router mode it will show up some enabled/disabled DHCP options
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February 15, 2013 2:40:46 PM

Could be. Some routers have a soft/hard switch for AP mode, and may very well automatically enable/disable the DHCP server as appropriate. I just wanted to make sure you understood.
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February 15, 2013 9:17:42 PM

yeah now understood~ and got another new question this..

if I got 2 router-wifi, how to setup t router-wifi with files sharing?

e.g. ISP utp to Main Router-wfi WAN port w/ DHCP enabled and Main Router-wifi LAN port1 to Second router-wfi LAN port1? or WAN port?

then disabled the 2nd router-wifi dhcp.
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February 17, 2013 12:12:44 AM

I *think* I know what you mean.

If you daisy chain routers over the WAN port, you create different networks. Each MUST use a different IP range, e.g., 192.168.1.x and 10.0.0.x. The upstream router (the one closest to the ISP) can NOT access the downstream router’s (the one farthest from the ISP) resources due to the downstream router's firewall. But the downstream router can always access the resources of the upstream router. Network discovery will not work between them as this is usually confined to the local network.

In contrast, if you daisy chain them LAN to LAN, they are, by definition, on the same network (e.g., all use 192.168.1.x) and can freely share resources.

Which architecture makes sense just depends on what you’re trying to achieve.
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February 17, 2013 8:46:03 PM

That is it! I want them all in 192.168.0.X so that I can share files to any computer connected.

The setting will be 1st router LAN port to 2nd router LAN port right.
should I change the 2 router-wifi with different IP? like 1st router 192.168.0.1 and the 2nd router will be 192.168.0.2
and then disabled the DHCP of 2nd router right? and I can also config with a same WLAN settings SSID/WPA/PSK/AES/TKIP/WEP.
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February 17, 2013 11:41:47 PM

chanwei21 said:
That is it! I want them all in 192.168.0.X so that I can share files to any computer connected.

The setting will be 1st router LAN port to 2nd router LAN port right.
should I change the 2 router-wifi with different IP? like 1st router 192.168.0.1 and the 2nd router will be 192.168.0.2
and then disabled the DHCP of 2nd router right? and I can also config with a same WLAN settings SSID/WPA/PSK/AES/TKIP/WEP.


Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes (if you want wireless roaming).
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February 18, 2013 12:41:58 AM

thanks man! my network works good enough now~
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March 1, 2013 4:29:32 AM

Best answer selected by chanwei21.
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June 11, 2013 7:32:30 AM

eibgrad said:
I *think* I know what you mean.

If you daisy chain routers over the WAN port, you create different networks. Each MUST use a different IP range, e.g., 192.168.1.x and 10.0.0.x. The upstream router (the one closest to the ISP) can NOT access the downstream router’s (the one farthest from the ISP) resources due to the downstream router's firewall. But the downstream router can always access the resources of the upstream router. Network discovery will not work between them as this is usually confined to the local network.



In contrast, if you daisy chain them LAN to LAN, they are, by definition, on the same network (e.g., all use 192.168.1.x) and can freely share resources.

Which architecture makes sense just depends on what you’re trying to achieve.


Hi I have a similar daisy chain set up ( I think) which has the second router downstairs in a café set up LAN to LAN as a wireless AP. I am aware that any customers using this unsecure SSID can access files and devices in our main network (secure) and I wondered if connecting the LAN from our main router ( Cat 5 sockets around the building) to the WAN port of the second router would solve this? Any help would be much appreciated, I would like to block this potential security threat asap.
Kind regards
Linsay
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June 12, 2013 11:29:49 AM

Linsay Walker said:
eibgrad said:
I *think* I know what you mean.

If you daisy chain routers over the WAN port, you create different networks. Each MUST use a different IP range, e.g., 192.168.1.x and 10.0.0.x. The upstream router (the one closest to the ISP) can NOT access the downstream router’s (the one farthest from the ISP) resources due to the downstream router's firewall. But the downstream router can always access the resources of the upstream router. Network discovery will not work between them as this is usually confined to the local network.



In contrast, if you daisy chain them LAN to LAN, they are, by definition, on the same network (e.g., all use 192.168.1.x) and can freely share resources.

Which architecture makes sense just depends on what you’re trying to achieve.


Hi I have a similar daisy chain set up ( I think) which has the second router downstairs in a café set up LAN to LAN as a wireless AP. I am aware that any customers using this unsecure SSID can access files and devices in our main network (secure) and I wondered if connecting the LAN from our main router ( Cat 5 sockets around the building) to the WAN port of the second router would solve this? Any help would be much appreciated, I would like to block this potential security threat asap.
Kind regards
Linsay


It's not quite that simple. As I told the OP, downstream routers (i.e., those farthest from the ISP) always have access to upstream routers and their respective networks. So yes, you should have your guests on their own router/network, but HOW you connect and further configure those routers makes a huge difference.

You could, for example, make the guest router the primary router, and chain your private router behind it, LAN to WAN respectively. That gives your private network access to the guest network (which is upstream), but guests are prevented from accessing the private network due to its firewall.

But it’s not perfect. It’s possible (if unlikely) that guests could use ARP poisoning on their network to snoop traffic from the private network as it traverses the guest network. Again, this is not very likely, but it’s important to KNOW what can go wrong.

The better (if somewhat clunky) solution is to use three routers in a Y configuration, w/ a shared router acting as the primary, and your private and guest routers/networks connected to that shared router, WAN to LAN respectively. Now ARP poisoning is not possible.

The solution I use is a second router connected to the primary router, WAN to LAN respectively, EXCEPT I use a dd-wrt/tomato enabled router so I can add firewall rules to prevent the downstream guest router from gaining access to the devices on the primary router. So while the guests do traverse the primary router’s network to gain internet access, any attempts to access specific devices on the primary network are denied.

Some ppl like to use routers that support virtual SSID/interfaces for guests to achieve the same results. Dd-wrt/tomato, and even some commercial routers support this directly.

Yeah, a bit complicated to explain and understand in a forum like this, but there are several approaches, each w/ advantages and disadvantages.
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June 12, 2013 1:36:24 PM

Thanks very much for your advice, there does seem to be a lot of different options. I will assume that for most over lunch or a coffee that the network will be use for mobile phone or tablet internet access. There are not so many people bringing in a laptop to the cafe. The building is large therefore the main router upstairs is connected to one ethernet switch linked to another 2 and then all devices from there into a panel arrangment with corresponding cat 5 sockets around the shop. I do not really want to touch anything on the main router as we have to maintain steady function with tills, card readers and pcs all running and requiring internet access. I was hoping to just configure the new router (belkin surf N300) as best I can down in the cafe. The router is quite basic and by WAN it is a WAN (Adsl) socket and 4 LAN sockets at the back. I do not know of a cable that can go from adsl to cat 5 so that option seems out. I may just have to set a password which customers ask for and change it frequently, hoping that there isn't anyone with alternative reasons for being in the building.... I have no control of someone sitting out in the carpark just now with no password set!

Linsay
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June 13, 2013 12:11:47 AM

One simple thing you could do to give your files some protection is to change the name of the Workgroup from the Microsoft default, WORKGROUP to something no-one is likely to be able to guess. You could change the downstairs Workgroup to Cafe and give the private side a name of its own.
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