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Building System. Advice on PSU and CPU Fan

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April 9, 2003 10:54:40 PM

Ok. I'm all set to purchase my stuff.

My questions are:

What is the recommended Powersupply for a dual P4 Xeon Motherboard? The one I'm looking to get is the Iwill DPL533.

Second question is what CPU fan(s) should I get for Xeons?

I'm planning to buy most of this from newegg.com unless someone tells me of a place I can get all this even cheaper. I've bought stuff from them before and they have done very well.

At newegg I can get:

Iwill DPL533 Motherboard
2x 2.4 Xeons
2x 512 Crucial PC2100 DDR RAM
Antec 550W Power Supply For TRUE550 (Seems good)

For $1,140 and that includes the shipping.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 10, 2003 7:05:39 PM

well depending on the use of the system i would go with a redundant powersupply ... umm, but 550W is enough anyways. As for the fans, are you rackmounting the setup or is in an ATX case? wait a second, thats an ATX psu, so i'm assuming an atx case... well, youo can really go for anything you like, the Xeon processors can work with vantec's copper-x heatsinks meant for 1U rackmount servers, they're supposed to be ohk, though if you want ultimate performance go for the Swiftech MCX462 heatsinks, or save a lil $ and go for the Alpha PAL8045 heatsinks... can i ask somethin tho - why you building a dual xeon system ? i mean, thats A LOT of processing power right there

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
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April 10, 2003 10:34:03 PM

Thanks for the info. As to why I'm doing it, I'm a techno junkie and I wanted bragging rights hehe that's the honest answer. Now the justification is that I do a bunch of video processing so the faster I can capture, encode, re-encode and edit videos and such the better for me.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 10, 2003 10:39:03 PM

hmmm, sounds good to me :)  wish i could have a system like that tho, heh, meanwhile I'm satisfying myself with a Dual P3 @550Mhz for my web-server (soon enough)... you know what would be really cool tho? some watercooling for that rig :wink:

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 10, 2003 10:59:28 PM

Aye this will be my first upgrade in 2 years. I'm itchin. I usually upgrade my system every year and upgrade parts all throughout the year but after I was laid off...well its been 2 years now and I'm putting this on a credit card hehe.

This is the current config I am planning to buy.

Part: IWILL Motherboard for Dual Intel XEON Processors, Model# DPL533
Part Number: N82E16813129127
Price: $399

Part: Antec 550W Power Supply For TRUE550 ATX
Part Number: N82E16817103910
Price: $118.99

Part: IntelĀ® Xeon(TM)(604 pin FC-mPGA) DP 2.40 GHz 512 KB-cache 533 MHz FSB -Retail
Part Number: N82E16819117015
Price: $482.00 ($241.00 Each)

Part: Crucial Micron 512MB 64x64 PC2100 DDR RAM, 184-Pin, CL=2.5-Unbuffered 2.5V, 6-Layers
Part Number: N82E16820145005
Price: $140 ($70 Each)

Part: Thermaltake VOLCANO 7+.
Part Number: N82E16835106014
Price: $56 ($28 Each)

Total: $1,195.99

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 11, 2003 1:39:55 AM

damn thats a nice setup, but I would spend the extra lil bit of cash to grab some DDR @ 333Mhz, its worth the difference, and make sure that its at CL2.0, not 2.5, again, performance increase will be noticed... Oh yeah, and again like i mentioned before, I would definitely look into a redundant power supply for the system, it drains a lot of juice, and though you probably won't have any probalems with the antec 550W, i'd personally grab a redundant..

Whats the video card that gets to go in there btw ?

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 2:05:09 AM

That sounds like a plan. I was going with the PC2100 because thats what was recommended for that board and I didn't know enough to choose something else.

I only saw CL 2.5 at crucial's site but I can look around. Does the DDR333 have another name?

As for the redundant power supply take a look at what newegg.com has since that's where I'm getting all this. I don't even know what the difference between redundant and non-redundant is. I chose this Antec because it had lots of wattage and good reviews.

Video card is ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. Already using it now. All other parts are coming from my current system.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 11, 2003 4:52:14 AM

umm, DDR 333Mhz is PC2700 RAM, compared to the PC2100 which is 266Mhz RAM... as for the redundant vs. non-redundant power supply, basically a redundant is like having two power supplies in one - should one fail, the other picks right up seamlessly which means no down time :smile: .. I mean, if the downtime factor isn't an issue for you, and if you have access to anew power supply on the spot then having a redundant power supply might not be for you, but on a high-end system like that I think its a worthwhile investment (also protects from any damage if the power gets cut on your hardware mid-use). There's a nice Enermax redundant power supply which is enough for your system (its 400W), model numer is ERM2400-V so check it out. Only difference is, through newegg.com, its twice the price of the Antec 550W power supply (but quite obviously, its technically two power supplies in one).

NewEgg has some Crucial PC2700 DDR333Mhz (Model#: CT6464Z335) ... sorry bout the confusion though, I meant to say CAS=2.0, not CL (CL is standard at 2.5 on brand-name RAM), and the Crucial RAM is has a CAS Latency of 2.0 so don't worry.

Radeon 9700 is a nice video card too, it'll run fast as hell on that system... but don't forget, you'll be running some damn hot components, so cool the case down with enough fans.

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 10:58:42 AM

Wow thanks for the info and the advice. Hmmm. The redundant powersupply don't think I need that really. Downtime isn't a critical factor. This is my personal machine and worst case I could just run to a local store and get another powersupply.

The memory I'm going with. newegg has it on sale. It's only $8 more than the PC2100.

As for cooling, well my case has 11 fans. I hope that's enough combined with of course fans for some of the individual components.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 11, 2003 4:41:20 PM

yeah, 11 fans is enough, heh. how many hard drives are you running?

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 5:49:36 PM

Total of 5 Hard drives. Also I ordered everything but the PSU (Lack of funds atm hehe) but I went with the PC2100 instead of the PC2700. I got to thinking that I'm most likely not going to overclock and probably wouldn't see to big of a difference on this board I'm getting. Also, I can always upgrade.

The PC2100 is the recommended memory for that board according to Crucial so I decided to play it safe for now. I'll probably get that PSU rather than redundant due to funds shortage for one. Also I plan to get a UPS as soon as I can afford it. Belkin or APC

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 11, 2003 6:39:32 PM

sounds good to me... I've got an APC UPS (model number is 500ES), and I'm way happy with it, good buy, and i paid $30 for it too :smile:

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 8:20:42 PM

wow nice price. I haven't gotten one because the ones I want are all $300+ least that was the price when I checked 2 years ago. I want the stackable ones. Smart UPS not sure which model but I'll start with one and grow. Eventually I want to plug in 2 computers, my ADSL modem, 1 monitor.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 11, 2003 8:38:48 PM

i know it was a nice price, thats why i grabbed it right away... but now if i were to get another one, I would probably build one for myself to tell the truth - can't remember where but i read a how-to guide on building a battery that would last HOURS instead of minutes, and cost under $100 (made with a car battery). Anyways, I've got my UPS supporting the DSL modem, the Switch/Hub, the monitor and the computer (Athlon 1600, two harddrives, dvd, 512mb ram, etc, etc) and i can pull about 10-12 minutes off of it, which for my purposes is fine, because I originally picked it up for its line-conditioning purposes. The current in my house is TERRIBLE, I mean this place must be 75 years old and the wiring is sh!t - my system used to restart because of the power fluctuations about 5 or 6 times DAILY, and turning up my fans with the fan controller used to dim the lights (mind you, I've got a lot of current running in this room... the computer, monitor, 5-speaker set, VCR, monitor, 27" tv, 2 lamps, electric guitar and amp, heater, and a reptile aquarium with 2 x 100W heat lamps and a 65W heater pad). Well yeah, the UPS helps SOOOO much - I mean, my computer runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and so do all the other ones in the house (6 in total), the oldest one probably being 7 years old, and this problem was such a pain in the a$$, and now with the APC UPS I haven't had any problems... and their prices are great. If you're looking for a stackable one they make some nice solution, but those run a little pricier, but nonetheless, you can pick-up factory refurbished units for a lot cheaper from APC directly, with full warrantee - its definitely worth it.

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 9:35:12 PM

Yeah I want a UPS for the line conditioning but also because I have brownouts here. 10 minutes is fine for my purposes. Heck if I can hook everything up and it can stay on for even 1-2 minutes that would be enough because if the power is off for 1 minute I know something is up and can shut stuff down or have it shut down. But these annoying power outtages for seconds is a major pain. Doesn't happen too often thankfully but enough that I always say darn it why didn't I get a UPS.

BTW major thanks for the help and advice. You've been very helpful. My order is waiting to be shipped now. Paid for and everything. Just need Powersupply and a UPS and my system would be totally complete. Powersupply first of course.

One last question. On a UPS I can never figure out how much power I'll need and I don't want to get one that's too weak. Any advice?

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 11, 2003 9:43:06 PM

here, use <A HREF="http://www.apc.com/template/size/apc/index.cfm?Method=s..." target="_new">this</A> to figure it out, though I would probably go for one with at least 700VA(Volt Amps) because your system will drain that batter a lot faster than mine :wink:

oh, and my pleasure :smile:

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 10:16:28 PM

heh, i was going to suggest a 1000VA unit actually, but since you said all you needed was a couple of minutes you might as well save the extra price..

you had a dual P3 @ 500Mhz ? hmmm, i'm looking into buikding myself one soon enough for my web-site server, with 512 mb RAM, a 4 Gig HD, nothing special other than the dual P3 CPUs, and have been wondering to myself if its enough to run AppacheWebserver or somethin of the sort - any opinions ?

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 11, 2003 10:25:19 PM

More than enough to run that. Heck I used to run my Linux box on a Pentium 133 and I had apache on it and ran just fine. Now I'm running on a Dell and I've forgotten just what speed it is LOL got it for free. My mom's job gave her one but I'd already built her one so I just grabbed this one and stuck it in there. But it's not a dual and it may not even be up to a p3 but not sure.

Oh and I found a local store. They have a used APC UPS 1000VA - 2000VA it said for $80. Not sure if it's a smart UPS or not but for that price I may just run by and grab it. For 90% of the time it's protection from brownouts. I actually have an Office UPS but it can't handle my system. Didn't even handle my old dual.

Since learning that even a 700 could run this computer by itself I figure I can get the 1000 or so and be able to hook up everything. Heh I'm so excited (Case you can't tell). Been 2 years since I bought anything computer related and man was I in hellish torment.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 12, 2003 2:03:45 AM

for $80 ?? hmmm, i dunno, check it out first...
hmm, you ran off of a P133 ?? damn, i've got one of them here...hmmm, sitting right beside my P233@266, my P166, and the system i've had for about 6 months and never turned on or opened up, heh, so i know the feeling with regards to your Dell.

2 years huh? well, since i started my own business sellin computers n parts i've been able to upgrade every few months and sellin my hardware used for the same price i pick up the new stuff for, heh... but before that, daaaammmmnnn, my Pentium 133 lasted a while, a LONG WHILE (talking 7+ years), then old faithfull died on me (well the motherboard did) and i decided i needed a new one, so i said "f#ck it, I can probably register a business and purchase everything cheaper from the distributors" and then i started, got my hands on computers from here and there (hence the office full of old parts and systems), and my original P133 (purchase price read $2,400), with 32mb RAM, 1.5Gig HD, 2D vid card, Soundblaster 16, 16X CD-ROM, heh, the works... well, now each one of the older system has a little "old faithfull" in it, heh.. even my new system has its floppy drive (only thin i could use) - i just couldn't stand the idea of not using it - it was my first computer, my baby... bah, i'm nuts i know

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 12, 2003 3:35:34 AM

Heh your method of upgrades is similar to mine (When I'm working steady). What I'd do is upgrade main, take old parts and store them. Then eventually I built a second PC and then a third then a forth. Then I sold my P133 (Friend is still using it too. It's been about 7 or 8 years since I bought it but it's been upgraded of course.

Now I have the Dell for my server, this main machine and a second workstation (For LAN gaming and such). So I do a trickle down thing then sell off the oldest stuff which often helps me buy other parts.

Right now though I'm not working steady. I've put this entire thing on my card. I'll sell my old stuff but friend here doesn't have the money yet. Also selling a game account of mine (Dark Age of Camelot). So total is $400 that goes towards the upgrade.

The parts have been shipped. If they get here and I still don't have the money I'm gonna have to borrow it from someone which I hate doing.

You don't want to buy a DAOC account do ya? :)  Or maybe know someone who does?

Anyway, not sure how I can check out the UPS. The company is local and they offer warranties. I've bought stuff from them before. Actually check them out:

http://www.ginstar.com

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 12, 2003 6:11:06 PM

Hmm, what "old stuff" do you have to sell-off, I'm always looking for parts and depending on what you have I might be interested (ie for my web-server in the making). Ummm, Dark Ages of Camelot ? Hmm, never heard of it before quite frankly, but I'll check it out.

Oh yeah, took a look at the APC UPS... I'm not too sure what they mean by 1000VA - 2000VA (maybe that they have various models), but a price tag of $70 is definitely worth it, even if you have the replace the actual battery inside within a year or two (the batteries are good for about 5 years) at a fraction of the cost anyways.
Hmmm, but I can't wait to hear about the system once you get it - bound to be sweeeeet.

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 12, 2003 7:45:57 PM

Well, usually I build all my computers like I mentioned. But that Dell was pre-built (One reason I can't remember what's in it) and I bought another one during a time I was building a computer (Out of old parts) for someone. Sold them my old dual p3 500 (Only had one CPU in it at the time) and bought a pre-built that I use for my second workstation.Now the only machine I build is my main machine.

The old parts that I have to sell are the parts I'm replacing. Athlon 1.1 Ghz CPU, A7V133 Motherboard and 512 megs of crucial RAM PC133.

Heh I can't wait to get my new parts and get this new system built. I missed having dual cpus and this system is gonna be even more top of the line that my current system was three years ago. I've been using the Fed-Ex tracking number to watch it's progress. If it gets to a warehouse locally I'm running over and picking it up rather than waiting on delivery hehe. I've done that before.

Although one cause for concern. I've heard of people having problems with this board and the 9700 Pro and I don't know if they are resolved yet. Lockups during games type problems. Seemed to be related to the AGP on the board. The chipset not really being 3.0 compliant or something like that. Some people fixed some stability trouble by turning off Fast Writes and putting it to 4x speed which to me would suck if I have to do that. And I can't return the board either. Newegg has a no return policy on motherboards it seems. They'll replace but no refunds. But that doesn't matter since the boards that share the same chipset will probably share the same problem.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 13, 2003 3:54:35 PM

Hmmm, how much $ are you looking for for your old hardware ? I might be interested...

But I mean I've never used a dual CPU system, and can't say I know how it "feels" - I can imagine there's a nice difference but I mean, besides processing power what are thenoticable differences?

As for the motherboard - don't worry about problems with the Radeon 9700 before you try it out, and besides, there's only a limited amount of chipsets that'll even allow the use of a dual Xeon anyways, so its a matter of what manufacturer you pick. Now, I KNOW I wouldn't want to use my R9700 (if i had one) at AGP 4x, thats just a waste, but I'm sure there's another solution... hmmmm, time to firgure it-out though :wink:

<b>people are only idiots when they don't realize - when they do it just gets funnier, like a dog chasing its own tail, or like george bush's public address(es)</b>
April 13, 2003 6:19:29 PM

Well, was going to try and sell it all for around $150 - $200. Preferrably $200 of course.

As for the feel, well, I tend to run a bunch of things at the same time. With my old dual I could do that without too much of a performance hit at all. I could also do things like setting the affinity so that some stuff I was running, ran on a different cpu entirely. There were also times when an application went crazy and started taking up 100% of my cpu time. Not only did this happen less with my dual (Very rare for an application to send both cpus to 100%) but when it did it didn't bring my system to a crawl because it was usually only one cpu that was affected.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 15, 2003 7:11:50 AM

Hmmm, well I will definitely keep that in mind - I know enough people looking for the "cheap" way out of a system, and used is definietly the way to go. As for myself, I've got enough computers in the house already (though my mum tends to use mine at every available oportunity, for now she's stuck using a P2 @ 266), and have even decided to give some away to charity. Soon enough I will be picking up a ~1GHz system, Intel or AMD doesn't really matter, just something that is fast and up to date for a second computer, and then the third one being the server.

Hmmm, but about a dual CPU, funny thing is, I tend to run a million things at once as well (i.e. watching a downloaded movie using horizontal span on my TV while palying UnrealTournament2k3 on the monitor, with 15 IE windows open and Kazaa, MIRC and WinMX downloading songs, movies, etc, all at once, and then having some MP3s playing at the same time... Though I've still to max-out my CPU, though RAM has come to run short just once or twice (at about 37 Internet Explorer windows, Winamp, Media player and the usual slew of a dozen background programs), but for now my 512mb is enough (though I do plan on upgrading within a few months to 1Gb and selling my 512mb module to a friend).

Oh yeah, i wanted to ask - in a server, whats more important, the CPU speed (since I can have a server running 1 P2 @ 433Mhz for free soon enough, but what about 1 CPU vs. 2), the RAM (size vs. speed), or the hard drive (parallel vs. SCSI). Essentially, how important is each factor, and what is the leading component? Thanks for yur help this time 'round :smile:

<b>When someone sells you a computer with an ECS mobo, they're ripping you off - when someone sells you a system with no case fan, they're just an idiot</b>
April 15, 2003 10:47:48 AM

Try running those things and then encode some videos in the background and have Adobe Premiere running a coversion / edit of a video. Granted I don't often run all these things at the same time but when dealing with video processing the faster you can encode the better. And I know Premiere scales. It actually ran faster on my dual p3 500 than on this 1.1 Ghz system.

As for a server, it all depends on what type of server it is. What will be it's primary function. For my server the important parts were disk speed (Because I use it as a fileserver) and network speed. The CPU and the Memory didn't really matter much to me.

Although I could of had a dual server it would have been overkill for my needs (Hehe well more overkill than this system). So it boils down to how you plan to use the server. What you plan to be running on it etc.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 15, 2003 9:36:09 PM

Well, I have all the parts and looks like I already ran into a problem. Seems the Volcano 7+ CPU fans I bought do not support Socket 604 Xeons. Either that or I can't figure out how to mount it.

The Xeons have come with heatsink and fan so I can use those and at least get rolling but that really sucks.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 17, 2003 11:05:54 AM

Man this has been a nightmare. Nothing seemed to go right. My new system wouldn't post no matter what I did. Even getting a different power supply. Then it got worse. Now it won't even come on. No power at all goes to the motherboard but I could plug in my old motherboard (Using an adapter) and it powered on. So I'm going to have to do something I have not had to do before. Take it to a local shop.

What's worse is that my old system seems to have gone bad. Either that or the graphics cards have gone bad. But it doesn't want to post now. Powers on just fine.

So I'm without my main machine for a while it seems. Never had this much trouble all at once. Sheesh.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
April 17, 2003 9:22:23 PM

Hmmmmm, well, its most likely going to end-up running Redhat Linux 9.0 with Apache Web-Server for now (unless you can suggest a better web-site server?), but no real file serving. I mean basically, this will be a retail site for my business, which I will be backing-up onto one of my computer's hard drives every couple of days - thats basically it.

<b>When someone sells you a computer with an ECS mobo, they're ripping you off - when someone sells you a system with no case fan, they're just an idiot</b>
April 18, 2003 6:20:38 AM

hmm sounds good - hopefully i'll be able to figure it all-out (never used linux or apache), have my site up soon enough.

<b>When someone sells you a computer with an ECS mobo, they're ripping you off - when someone sells you a system with no case fan, they're just an idiot</b>
April 18, 2003 11:31:18 PM

Hey there,

Yeah I'm seeing a ton of good reviews for Antec. The first PSU that I bought (In this nightmare of a week) was the 550 but was the wrong version. Trouble was I wanted one fast and couldn't find one locally. Well I learned my lesson about settling. I knew better and know I KNOW better. :) 

I'm going to order this:

http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_powerSupply.php?Pr...

Probably next week. No rush now for my impatient arse. I sent the motherboard off so I have to wait for it to come back anyway. So I just need to order this some time next week.

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=1683" target="_new">My Awesome Rig</A>
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