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Matching analog and digital signals while mixing live

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Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:41:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I am trying to figure out how to best solve a problem related to mixing
signals from analog and digital sources together. My primary focus with
music has been DJing, that is, mixing two records on a pair of technics
1200's. I am now trying out mixing between a DJ (controlling two
turntables) and a second person on a computer mixing into the DJ's
records with samples from the Dj's records as well as preprogrammed
samples. As far as all of equipment goes, for the analog side I am
using an Allen and Heath Xone32 mixer w/ 3 channels (each channel has
line and phono outputs, two technics 1200's, and an alesis reference
amp that powers a pair of decent panasonic speakers. On the digital
side, I have a powermac g5 dual 2 w 1gb ram. The programs I am have are
Protools 6.4LE, Ableton Live 2.0 Digidesign edition, Reason 2.5
Digidesign edition, Reason 2.0, and Logic Express 7, and GarageBand. My
D/A interface is an MBox. I have a multitude of technical issues to
overcome to accomplish this, I and I am hoping someone out there has
done this or would know how to do it. One issue I have is matching the
levels of the digital and the analog outputs. Whenever I am mixing a
digital song with an analog song (playing a song from my computer,
through the MBox, and onto one of the channels on the mixer) I have to
turn the gain and volume up on the digital signal so high on my mixer
(almost all the way up) that it just doesn't seem good. Probably
related to the gain adjustment made to match the levels, the digital
signal invariably has a more shallow bass structure than the analog
signal. Is this just a fact of life when combining these twoo signals
or is there something that I am not doing?
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 9:50:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1110584499.618525.58570@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> love_beats@mac.com writes:

> One issue I have is matching the
> levels of the digital and the analog outputs. Whenever I am mixing a
> digital song with an analog song (playing a song from my computer,
> through the MBox, and onto one of the channels on the mixer) I have to
> turn the gain and volume up on the digital signal so high on my mixer
> (almost all the way up) that it just doesn't seem good.

If it works, it's OK.

> Is this just a fact of life when combining these twoo signals
> or is there something that I am not doing?

I would think that the output of your M-Box would be in the ballpark
of the nominal input level of your mixer. It really doesn't make any
difference whether the source is digital or analog. When they get to
the mixer, they're all analog. Generally computer audio interfaces
have their analog clipping level just above digital full scale, so you
can turn up "the computer" as much as you need and not have to worry
about what you're doing to the signal. But it wouldn't hurt to know
what you're doing, level-wise.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 11:45:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1110592115k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com wrote:

> In article <1110584499.618525.58570@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
love_beats@mac.com writes:
>
> > One issue I have is matching the
> > levels of the digital and the analog outputs. Whenever I am mixing a
> > digital song with an analog song (playing a song from my computer,
> > through the MBox, and onto one of the channels on the mixer) I have to
> > turn the gain and volume up on the digital signal so high on my mixer
> > (almost all the way up) that it just doesn't seem good.
>
> If it works, it's OK.
>
> > Is this just a fact of life when combining these twoo signals
> > or is there something that I am not doing?

What may be happening is that your source files are recorded at too low a
level to begin with. Try "normalizing" all your digital songs and sample
to 0db.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com
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Anonymous
March 13, 2005 8:43:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> [...] Generally computer audio interfaces have their analog clipping
> level just above digital full scale, so you can turn up "the
> computer" as much as you need and not have to worry about what you're
> doing to the signal. But it wouldn't hurt to know what you're doing,
> level-wise.




I haven't actually measured it for confirmation, but my Mbox seems to
deliver +4dBm at the analog outs with a 0dBFS signal. That would result
in the Mbox being kinda low compared to "typical" sources. As you
suggested, it's probably idiot proofing (you can't clip the analog outs
with a full-scale signal). I'd rather have +4dBm correlate to -20dBFS,
but I can't have that and still have a portable Pro Tools rig.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 8:43:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <OY_Yd.29366$KI2.547@clgrps12> Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca writes:

> I haven't actually measured it for confirmation, but my Mbox seems to
> deliver +4dBm at the analog outs with a 0dBFS signal. That would result
> in the Mbox being kinda low compared to "typical" sources.

Either that or it's a nominal -10 dBV device with its nominal level
corresponding to -12 dBFS. What's it's nominal analog level?

> suggested, it's probably idiot proofing (you can't clip the analog outs
> with a full-scale signal). I'd rather have +4dBm correlate to -20dBFS,
> but I can't have that and still have a portable Pro Tools rig.

You just need bigger batteries. <g>


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 6:09:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> Either that or it's a nominal -10 dBV device with its nominal level
> corresponding to -12 dBFS. What's it's nominal analog level?


The spec lists it as +4 balanced. Which, as you say, makes it pretty
much balanced -10 with 0VU around -11.8 or so! <g>

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
!