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Which Sennheiser 421 to buy??

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March 13, 2005 9:27:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

there seem to be a few different versions of this mic, whats the difference
between say the MD421, MD421-U4, MD421-U4 MKII, MD421-U5, etc..?

I'm looking to buy one off ebay and heard that they all sound different,
my application would be primarily for floor toms. thanks!

More about : sennheiser 421 buy

Anonymous
March 13, 2005 9:27:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

steve <steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>there seem to be a few different versions of this mic, whats the difference
>between say the MD421, MD421-U4, MD421-U4 MKII, MD421-U5, etc..?
>
>I'm looking to buy one off ebay and heard that they all sound different,
>my application would be primarily for floor toms. thanks!

The differences are mostly in the connectors and the number of click stops
on the M-S switch.

The only audible differences I know of are between the older units and the
newer Mk. II. The Mk. II has a very different sound with a presence boost
added that I don't much like.

My general feeling is you should buy any of them that turn up cheaply,
even if they have a Tuchel connector, as long as they aren't a Mk. II.
Then again, some people like the Mk. II.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 11:00:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Main difference will be found using the MKII, which is even brighter tahn
the original design.

I find the 421 MKI bright, but useful.

The various suffixes indicate variable low cut or not, XLR or Tuchel (or the
rare French one).

I personally stick with 421-U-X MKI

But... I prefer an SM59 on a well tuned floor tom...

JP

"steve" <steve@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:yC%Yd.263$Jd2.24346@news20.bellglobal.com...
> there seem to be a few different versions of this mic, whats the
difference
> between say the MD421, MD421-U4, MD421-U4 MKII, MD421-U5, etc..?
>
> I'm looking to buy one off ebay and heard that they all sound different,
> my application would be primarily for floor toms. thanks!
>
Related resources
March 14, 2005 2:00:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>>there seem to be a few different versions of this mic, whats the difference
>>between say the MD421, MD421-U4, MD421-U4 MKII, MD421-U5, etc..?
>>
>>I'm looking to buy one off ebay and heard that they all sound different,
>>my application would be primarily for floor toms. thanks!
>
>The differences are mostly in the connectors and the number of click stops
>on the M-S switch.
>
>The only audible differences I know of are between the older units and the
>newer Mk. II. The Mk. II has a very different sound with a presence boost
>added that I don't much like.
>
>My general feeling is you should buy any of them that turn up cheaply,
>even if they have a Tuchel connector, as long as they aren't a Mk. II.
>Then again, some people like the Mk. II.

is the u-5 the most recent version other than the MKII? i see those on
ebay more than anything else.. if not, do you know which version have
xlr connectors?

thanks
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 8:40:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 124kt$hba$1@panix2.panix.com...
> steve <steve@gmail.com> wrote:
> >there seem to be a few different versions of this mic, whats the
difference
> >between say the MD421, MD421-U4, MD421-U4 MKII, MD421-U5, etc..?
> >
> >I'm looking to buy one off ebay and heard that they all sound different,
> >my application would be primarily for floor toms. thanks!
>
> The differences are mostly in the connectors and the number of click stops
> on the M-S switch.
>
> The only audible differences I know of are between the older units and the
> newer Mk. II. The Mk. II has a very different sound with a presence boost
> added that I don't much like.
>
> My general feeling is you should buy any of them that turn up cheaply,
> even if they have a Tuchel connector, as long as they aren't a Mk. II.
> Then again, some people like the Mk. II.

Not me. I had the thing for review, and not only was it bright, it was
harsh, with an unpleasant edge to it. I found myself using the EQ at like
8:00 for harmonica. They had a good mic going; why did they screw it up?

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 11:06:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> is the u-5 the most recent version other than the MKII? i see those on
> ebay more than anything else.. if not, do you know which version have
> xlr connectors?

The difference between U4 and U5 was I believe in the stand mount thread (US
or US/Euro adaptor).

Any "-U" is (supposed to be) fitted with an XLR.

JP
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:05:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Stamler <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Not me. I had the thing for review, and not only was it bright, it was
>harsh, with an unpleasant edge to it. I found myself using the EQ at like
>8:00 for harmonica. They had a good mic going; why did they screw it up?

My guess is that it was an attempt to reduce manufacturing cost somehow.

You'll notice that the 431 and 441 are among the best dynamic mikes of all
time... but you'll _never_ see an ad for them in Mix or EQ. Even with the
very high prices that Sennheiser has on them now, the margin on them is
probably a good bit lower than on the newer lines.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:21:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"some people like the Mk. II"

Got one a week ago - I think it sounds fantastic.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:52:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

gil wrote:
> "some people like the Mk. II"
>
> Got one a week ago - I think it sounds fantastic.

Are these the plastic ones?


A friend bought one a few weeks back, and i noticed it was a plastic
body. Pretty expensive mic for an all plastic shell.

I've got the old MD-521 that is metal but has no roll off.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 1:12:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> nmm <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:
> >
> >gil wrote:
> >> "some people like the Mk. II"
> >>
> >> Got one a week ago - I think it sounds fantastic.
> >
> >Are these the plastic ones?
>
> They are all plastic.
>
> >A friend bought one a few weeks back, and i noticed it was a plastic
> >body. Pretty expensive mic for an all plastic shell.
> >
> > I've got the old MD-521 that is metal but has no roll off.
>
> Are you sure it's really metal?

Pretty sure, seems like metal. Though the plastic on the new ones is
very hardened, the 521 seems like a differant material. When i get back
home i'll check it, though i've had it since the 80s.

I know that my 409 is metal, i've had to bend it back into shape once.
Still sounds ok ( not as good as it used to )
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 4:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

nmm <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:
>
>gil wrote:
>> "some people like the Mk. II"
>>
>> Got one a week ago - I think it sounds fantastic.
>
>Are these the plastic ones?

They are all plastic.

>A friend bought one a few weeks back, and i noticed it was a plastic
>body. Pretty expensive mic for an all plastic shell.
>
> I've got the old MD-521 that is metal but has no roll off.

Are you sure it's really metal?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 7:31:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:40:22 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
<pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:

>Not me. I had the thing for review, and not only was it bright, it was
>harsh, with an unpleasant edge to it.

Exactly. Old grey ones are great. New black ones are rubish.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 7:31:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <dhbb31h1eo0d15i7nto05q36tannv77kq8@4ax.com>,
Luxey <lluxey1@eunet.yu> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:40:22 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
><pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>Not me. I had the thing for review, and not only was it bright, it was
>>harsh, with an unpleasant edge to it.
>
>Exactly. Old grey ones are great. New black ones are rubish.

To be honest, I have a bunch of the old grey ones and a bunch of the
new black ones and they all sound the same to me. The Mk. II are the
only ones that seem to be rubbish (and they are new and black too, but
there are plenty of original ones that were black also).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:05:20 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article <d145n0$ib5$1@panix2.panix.com>):

> Paul Stamler <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not me. I had the thing for review, and not only was it bright, it was
>> harsh, with an unpleasant edge to it. I found myself using the EQ at like
>> 8:00 for harmonica. They had a good mic going; why did they screw it up?
>
> My guess is that it was an attempt to reduce manufacturing cost somehow.
>
> You'll notice that the 431 and 441 are among the best dynamic mikes of all
> time... but you'll _never_ see an ad for them in Mix or EQ. Even with the
> very high prices that Sennheiser has on them now, the margin on them is
> probably a good bit lower than on the newer lines.
> --scott


BTW, the new Neumann uses the 441/431 capsule.

Regards,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 6:04:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> To be honest, I have a bunch of the old grey ones and a bunch of the
> new black ones and they all sound the same to me. The Mk. II are the
> only ones that seem to be rubbish (and they are new and black too,
but
> there are plenty of original ones that were black also).
> --scott

If I wasn't lazy enough I'd rephrase my statement. Since I am lazy,
i'll just agree with you.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 10:38:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:
"> BTW, the new Neumann uses the 441/431 capsule.

The new Neumann? There's a Neumann dynamic now??? <gasp>

Jeff Jasper
Jeff Jasper Productions, West Funroe, La.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 2:54:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:38:07 -0500, Jeff Jasper wrote
(in article <zQGZd.656$Ux.634@tornado.texas.rr.com>):

> Ty Ford wrote:
> "> BTW, the new Neumann uses the 441/431 capsule.
>
> The new Neumann? There's a Neumann dynamic now??? <gasp>
>
> Jeff Jasper
> Jeff Jasper Productions, West Funroe, La.
>
>

Put simply, yes....put more complexly...

NEUMANN DEBUTS THEIR FIRST DYNAMIC MIC AT NAB - THE BCM 705

OLD LYME, CONNECTICUT: The BCM 705 is the second microphone in the new
Neumann broadcast line and the first ever Neumann dynamic microphone. It
utilizes a Neumann-redesigned version of the Profi Power Sennheiser MD 431
handheld stage microphone and capsule. Housed in the same body as the
previously introduced BCM 104, the BCM 705 is immediately identifiable as a
Neumann dynamic microphone by its new 'green' Neumann badge.

For the BCM 705 a major overhaul of the production steps of the original MD
431's capsule was required. This was necessary to reduce tolerances in both
frequency response and sensitivity to meet the application specifications
for this new microphone.

To enhance low frequencies, the entire chamber surrounding the capsule in
the BCM 705 is enlarged and acoustically coupled to a rear entrance port.
Even though the BCM 705 is meant for close talking, there is relatively
little low-frequency build-up due to the proximity effect. This makes the
microphone a perfect choice for talent who would prefer to work slightly
further from the mic away yet maintain a good, solid bass response.

The same wire mesh pop screen principles used in the KMS 105 and BCM 104
microphones are utilized in the BCM 705 thus removing the need of foam in
front of the capsule as originally used in the MD 431. Resistance to wind
plosives was now improved but not at the expense of good, clear
high-frequency response. The integrated pop screen can be removed for
cleaning without the use of tools and like the BCM 104. Individual,
color-coded head grilles are available for each user.

Finally, Neumann redesigned the capsule's mechanical suspension to reduce
the mic's sensitivity to stand movement or handling shocks. The microphone
in its mount is elastically suspended and compatible via standard
broadcast-segment microphone arms.

Neumann's award winning line of microphones has set the standard in the
industry since 1928. In 1999, Neumann received the prestigious Technical
Grammy(r) for their 70 years of innovation in microphone design and
contribution to the music industry. A continuing commitment to provide
innovative, technically refined products and engineering solutions of proven
quality ensures that Neumann's stature will remain unassailable.

www.neumannusa.com


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:33:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott & others,

If you were buying a new dynamic today and wanted something close to a
421, what would you listen to?

Graham
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:33:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Graham Duncan <graham@grahamduncan.com> wrote:
>Scott & others,
>
>If you were buying a new dynamic today and wanted something close to a
>421, what would you listen to?

Does it have to have that wide pattern, or would a 441 do?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 3:15:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Does it have to have that wide pattern, or would a 441 do?

I'll put a 441 on the list. I'm building up a mic locker and want a
good range of mics, and prefer to get them new if possible. I know a
441 is great to have, if a little pricey.

Assuming all goes to plan, I'm going to need an assortment of mics to
cover studio recording of folk, jazz, and alt rock. My folks have
actually built a small Russ Berger-designed room in Dallas, so I'm still
in a little bit of shock.

Other dynamics that are on the list right now:

E/V RE20
E/V 635a
Shure SM7b
Shure SM57
Sennheiser e609 silver
Beyerdynamic m201TG

I'm also planning to listen to the Audix D-series for drums & guitars.

Ribbons and condensers are also up for recommendations...

Thanks for your thoughts,
Graham
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 3:15:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Graham Duncan <graham@grahamduncan.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Does it have to have that wide pattern, or would a 441 do?
>
>I'll put a 441 on the list. I'm building up a mic locker and want a
>good range of mics, and prefer to get them new if possible. I know a
>441 is great to have, if a little pricey.

The 441 is a must-have, and although it's expensive new, they sell used
for pretty reasonable money.

>Other dynamics that are on the list right now:
>
>E/V RE20
>E/V 635a
>Shure SM7b
>Shure SM57
>Sennheiser e609 silver
>Beyerdynamic m201TG

Get either the RE-20 or the SM-7.... they are both great but you probably
don't need both. Also check out the EV N/D 468.

The RE-16 is also a nice thing to have.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 3:15:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Graham Duncan wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Does it have to have that wide pattern, or would a 441 do?
>
>
> I'll put a 441 on the list. I'm building up a mic locker and want a
> good range of mics, and prefer to get them new if possible. I know a
> 441 is great to have, if a little pricey.
>
> Assuming all goes to plan, I'm going to need an assortment of mics to
> cover studio recording of folk, jazz, and alt rock. My folks have
> actually built a small Russ Berger-designed room in Dallas, so I'm still
> in a little bit of shock.
>
> Other dynamics that are on the list right now:
>
> E/V RE20
> E/V 635a
> Shure SM7b
> Shure SM57
> Sennheiser e609 silver
> Beyerdynamic m201TG
>
> I'm also planning to listen to the Audix D-series for drums & guitars.
>
> Ribbons and condensers are also up for recommendations...
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
> Graham

Other than the size and hypercardiod pattern, the Audix D-1 and D-2
won't give you anything you won't already have with the list you have.
The D-2 works well on guitar amps for me but not on acoustics.
Actually, I sometimes favor the D-1 on rack toms over the D-2 because of
the attack and it's a little brighter.

Wayne
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 6:22:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The 441 is a must-have, and although it's expensive new, they sell used
> for pretty reasonable money.
>
> Get either the RE-20 or the SM-7.... they are both great but you probably
> don't need both. Also check out the EV N/D 468.
>
> The RE-16 is also a nice thing to have.


Thank you Scott and Wayne. I'm looking forward to listening to these.

Graham
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 11:02:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Graham Duncan" <graham@grahamduncan.com> wrote in message
news:Fn3_d.75274$Ze3.71305@attbi_s51...
> Scott & others,
>
> If you were buying a new dynamic today and wanted something close to a
> 421, what would you listen to?

If I wanted something like the old 421, bright but not harsh or unpleasant,
I'd go for a Beyer M88.

If I wanted something like the new 421, I'd get my head examined.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 6:43:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<<Other dynamics that are on the list right now:
E/V RE20
E/V 635a
Shure SM7b
Shure SM57
Sennheiser e609 silver
Beyerdynamic m201TG
I'm also planning to listen to the Audix D-series for drums & guitars.
Ribbons and condensers are also up for recommendations>>

If you are on a budget the large diaphram condensers from Audio
Technica and Shure are affordable and versatile as well. The A.T.'s
have a "crispy" something in the high end you may or may not find
objectionable.
It is hard to beat a 421 on tom toms and it works on steel guitar
cabinets and brass instruments as well. The e609 is great on guitar
cabinets and if it is anything like its grandfather the handmade 409,
it will work well on dobro and mandolin if good condensers are not
available. The SM-57 is still the most popular snare drum mic and I've
had excellent results with an SM-7 on an acoustic bass. I've heard if
you put an M-88 into a kick drum you should label it no longer suitable
for vocals.
Don't overlook multiple pattern condensers and if you have multiple
pattern mics that stay on cardioid you might be missing out on some
cool sounds.
The audio press has great things to say about the SE mic line.
If you are not on a budget, you can always go crazy with Neumann,
Royer, AEA, Microtech Gefell, Soundelux and Telefunken.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 6:49:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Stamler <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
>"Graham Duncan" <graham@grahamduncan.com> wrote in message
>news:Fn3_d.75274$Ze3.71305@attbi_s51...
>> Scott & others,
>>
>> If you were buying a new dynamic today and wanted something close to a
>> 421, what would you listen to?
>
>If I wanted something like the old 421, bright but not harsh or unpleasant,
>I'd go for a Beyer M88.

Is the new TGV-series M-88 enough like the old M-88 to do that?

>If I wanted something like the new 421, I'd get my head examined.

I can see wanting something that bright now and then. But there are
enough other things out there that are very bright and most of them
cost less.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 9:50:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 1cqh6$1cm$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Paul Stamler <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
> >"Graham Duncan" <graham@grahamduncan.com> wrote in message
> >news:Fn3_d.75274$Ze3.71305@attbi_s51...
> >> Scott & others,
> >>
> >> If you were buying a new dynamic today and wanted something close to a
> >> 421, what would you listen to?
> >
> >If I wanted something like the old 421, bright but not harsh or
unpleasant,
> >I'd go for a Beyer M88.
>
> Is the new TGV-series M-88 enough like the old M-88 to do that?

Dunno; I haven't heard the new one.

> >If I wanted something like the new 421, I'd get my head examined.
>
> I can see wanting something that bright now and then. But there are
> enough other things out there that are very bright and most of them
> cost less.

And the new 421 isn't just bright, it's also harsh.

Peace,
Paul
!