Dissertation - 'Recording The Orchestra'

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Hey all.

For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
the above title.

Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
my research with? I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a brief
history of the earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.
Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of the
techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles available
over here would be preferred!

Thanks in advance,
Ben.

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Chris Hornbeck wrote:
>
> You'll be getting a lot of great stuff from others, but I'd
> like to be the first to suggest starting with the "Decca tree".
> It's become archetypical; it's British; and it's historical.
>

Thanks for the quick reply - don't worry, I'll be looking a lot at the
Decca tree! As well as being, as you say, British and historical, I'm
fortunate enough to have access to a studio that uses one day in day
out. They've already agreed to let me take photos and have a mock
interview with one of the engineers.

Cheers,
Ben.

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Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:57:23 +0000, Ben Bayliss
>
>You'll be getting a lot of great stuff from others, but I'd
>like to be the first to suggest starting with the "Decca tree".
>It's become archetypical; it's British; and it's historical.

It was really an attempt to take advantage of a deficiency in the
M-50 microphones, if you want to think about that.

>In America, Mercury adopted a variation for the second most
>famous orchestral recordings ever.

No! The spaced triad is NOT even a little bit related to the Decca
tree. It has no phase coherency at all for one thing, which is why
all those Mercury recordings sound so deep... much more so than a
real orchestra.

There is a good tutorial on stereophony on www.josephson.com, but if
the original poster is in the UK, he should look up the BBC publication
"Microphones."

>"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann

You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course, you'll
still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that
cupboard.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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In article <d1451v$5v3$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course, you'll
> still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that
> cupboard.

I see you've got your negative feedback coupled in with your push-pull
input-output.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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In article
<fzkZd.387265$w62.303094@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:

> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> news1451v$5v3$1@panix2.panix.com...
> >
> > There is a good tutorial on stereophony on www.josephson.com, but if
> > the original poster is in the UK, he should look up the BBC publication
> > "Microphones."
> >
> > >"It's FFRR for me!" -Flanders and Swann
> >
> > You just got to move the fireplace from this wall to that. Of course,
> you'll
> > still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of
> that
> > cupboard.
>
> The ear can't hear as high as that
> Still, it ought to please any passing bat.
>
> Peace,
> Paul

Don't forget to stimulate that 8th sense ...

--
Joakim Wendel
Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply.

My homepage : http://violinist.nu

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On 14 Mar 2005 13:33:47 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>I see you've got your negative feedback coupled in with your push-pull
>input-output.

The melody of "Slow Train" is stuck in my head. Make it stop!

And to Scott and Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mister Smartypantses.
Of course you're right, but how's come nobody's bitten on the
"second most famous" bit? Nobody cares, is why. Sob!

Chris Hornbeck
"I just don't think it's right to have a club like this.
It ain't in the Bible," said Gary Colwell, 18, a brick mason
who grew up in the area. "We see them walking around holding
hands, and it makes everybody feel uncomfortable."

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Ben Bayliss wrote:
> Hey all.
>
*snip*

Thanks everyone for your suggestions so far, I'll be sure to check them
all out. Yesterday I bought a copy of Geoff Martin's online book which
is proving excellent reading so far and giving me some good ideas.

Keep the ideas coming!

Ben.

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Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote in
news:m8fc31pkm4ipgqvt3ct9fs67s7pc5079k8@4ax.com:

> But how's come nobody's bitten on the
> "second most famous" bit? Nobody cares, is why. Sob!

Because I assumed that if it's the most famous, I'm already supposed to
know about it. And I don't want to admit that I don't.

So what's the most famous orchestral recordings ever?

My guess is the Stokowski/Philadephia recordings for Fantasia.

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The AES archive of articles is worth checking out, as well as the AES
books of compiled papers on microphones and stereo techniques.

http://www.aes.org/publications/anth.cfm

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

Ben Bayliss wrote:
> Hey all.
>
> For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
> the above title.
>
> Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
> application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
> of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.
>
> Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
> my research with? I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a brief
> history of the earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.
> Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of the
> techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles available
> over here would be preferred!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ben.

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Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>So what's the most famous orchestral recordings ever?
>
>My guess is the Stokowski/Philadephia recordings for Fantasia.

That would do it. I was thinking of the Toscanini recording of Beethoven's
Fifth first, though.

But I bet that in terms of total record sales, the best-selling classical
album is some cheese-whiz rendition of the Four Seasons.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news171tt$8pv$1@panix2.panix.com...
> dale <dallen@frognet.net> wrote:
> >need some help with these references, please
>
> The song is "High Fidelity" by Flanders and Swann. It is an absolutely
> essential reference for anyone in the audio field, and it should be
> thoroughly kept in mind whenever dealing with audio sales people.

The actual title is "Song of Reproduction"; it's found on "At the Drop of a
Hat" (Angel), reissued on "The Compleat Flanders & Swann" (EMI).

Peace,
Paul

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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:37:38 -0500, Trevor de Clercq
<declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote:

>The AES archive of articles is worth checking out, as well as the AES
>books of compiled papers on microphones and stereo techniques.

Does anybody have a spare of the Microphone Anthology that
they'd be willing to part with? Thanks,

Chris Hornbeck
"That's where may forebears came from. Three of them
anyway. Who's been sleeping in my porridge?" -F&S

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|Hey all.

Merry Christmas!

|For my final year undergrad project, I've decided to write a paper with
|the above title.

Hmmm, your title suggests? Indoor, outdoor, etc?

|Currently, I can see it focusing on the development and popular
|application of various microphone arrays, to be supported by a library
|of my own recordings and similar commercial examples.

I believe the Germans were the progenitors of microphone useage
in the orchestral setting. How about comparing and contrasting
UK, USA and Germans?

|Can anyone recommend any good books / articles etc.. that I could begin
|my research with?

Library search

"biographies + Recording The Orchestra"
"indexes + Recording The Orchestra"
"abstracts + + Recording The Orchestra"
and so forth

|I'm mainly looking for technical articles, but a |brief history of the
|earliest orchestral recordings would be great too.

Hmmm, I think the earliest orchestral recordings came out on the
Berliner disc...possibly more so French, UK.

|Lastly, what recordings would you consider to be shining examples of
|the techniques employed in making them? I'm in the UK, so titles
|available over here would be preferred!

The Russian's were quite underrated <-----take a looksie at them.

|Thanks in advance,
|Ben.

Good luck in your research you gonna have your hands full.
Stay focused and proofread, proofread, proofread.
Peace and Love! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

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"Carey Carlan" <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns961B56F967745gulfjoehotmailcom@207.69.189.191...
> And when you've finished with the classical techniques, you can progress
> to
> movie soundtracks where every instrument is tracked separately and the
> mixing engineer creates the orchestral sound.

You suggest that all movie soundtracks are recorded this way?? That would
surprise me. I know that large ensembles are rarely recorded with a stereo
pair, but I suspect your statement goes much too far. Let's hear from some
mixers doing high budget soundtrack work.

Steve King

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Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Steve King <steve@45steveking57.net> wrote:
>
>>"Carey Carlan" <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns961B56F967745gulfjoehotmailcom@207.69.189.191...
>>
>>>And when you've finished with the classical techniques, you can progress
>>>to
>>>movie soundtracks where every instrument is tracked separately and the
>>>mixing engineer creates the orchestral sound.
>>
>>You suggest that all movie soundtracks are recorded this way?? That would
>>surprise me. I know that large ensembles are rarely recorded with a stereo
>>pair, but I suspect your statement goes much too far. Let's hear from some
>>mixers doing high budget soundtrack work.
>
>
> For the most part, yes. At least there is sectional miking, and often
> tighter miking than that. This has been the case since the fifties,
> really, and it's an attempt to make the music very forward and have it
> integrate well with dialogue tracks. It's not about a natural
> representation of the orchestra at all, because that's not the point.
> --scott
>

FWIW - none of the scores I've worked on have been recorded in quite
that way. They all used plenty of spot mics (2~3 per section), but used
a good deal of room (decca+riggers and surrounds) for the base sound.

Ben.

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Ben Bayliss <usenet@drives.me.mad.benbayliss.co.uk> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> For the most part, yes. At least there is sectional miking, and often
>> tighter miking than that. This has been the case since the fifties,
>> really, and it's an attempt to make the music very forward and have it
>> integrate well with dialogue tracks. It's not about a natural
>> representation of the orchestra at all, because that's not the point.
>
>FWIW - none of the scores I've worked on have been recorded in quite
>that way. They all used plenty of spot mics (2~3 per section), but used
>a good deal of room (decca+riggers and surrounds) for the base sound.

Oh, I'm not saying there isn't a lot of room stuff going into the final
mix as well. But it's not always the same room stuff from scene to scene!
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."