Worst Wargames?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

Don't post much - last time I was active around here was when it was
the old games-strategic newsgroup. Been lurking a bit again lately and
goos to see things are pretty lively and that there are good games
being published (mostly it seems by Matrix and the Bull Run geniuses at
MadMinute).

Small point/question.

Been going through some of my wargame collection, selling what's worth
selling and throwing out what isn't. And it dawns on me. In 20 years
of buying computer wargames the amount of money I have spent on:

(a) wargames that were good/interesting in design but unfinished and/or
buggy to the degree that they were unplayable

(b) poorly conceived and designed (and also in many cases unfinished
and/or buggy to some degree)

(c) well conceived, well-executed games that gave me many hours of
enjoyment out of.

Category (c) would account for a very small amount of wargames from my
shelves! Maybe I should have been a bit more discriminate!

Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
it. The worst game I ever played.

Anybody remember this one?

Kev
31 answers Last reply
More about worst wargames
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:


    >Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    >bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    >it. The worst game I ever played.
    >
    >Anybody remember this one?
    >
    >Kev

    Yea, I bought it too but I took it back to the store the next day and
    got my money back.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    >bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    >it. The worst game I ever played.
    >
    >Anybody remember this one?

    It was so buggy, they took out the air access from the game
    since they never was able to get that part to run at all. It was
    suppose to be Harpoon for land combat, at least that's how they were
    marketing it back then.
    --
    Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.
    Politically Incorrect and proud of it.
    My Mail Server is Protected by ChoiceMail.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:


    >Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    >bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    >it. The worst game I ever played.
    >
    >Anybody remember this one?

    It's in my closet. I played it about an hour.

    My main memory is that it had the first and last mailed patch I ever
    got-- 3.5" floppy disks in an envelope secured with a rubber band and
    a little crude sheet about how to install. Maybe six or eight months
    after the debacle of its initial ship. Then not another word until
    now.

    I never installed the patch. I don't think 360 lasted long after that,
    despite Harpoon.

    Steve
    --
    www.thepaxamsolution.com
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    >bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    >it. The worst game I ever played.

    Oh, yeah. it was like watching a newsreel. You had almost no control
    over anything that happened in the game.

    Another awful game was Rise and Rule of Ancient Empires, although I
    suppose it might be called a strategy game rather than a wargame. It
    was a Civilization clone, more or less. There were all sorts of
    fiddly settings to optimize production in each city, but they didn't
    stay set. So each turn you had to go through every city and make sure
    the settings were what you wanted. You tell stacks of units to go
    somewhere, but if they happened to meet with another stack, they'd all
    merge and take on the orders of one or the other stack. The enemy
    never, ever attacked, even when it had huge superiority in numbers.
    There was a limit to the number of cities that could be in the game.
    Once it was hit, every time a city was created, another one would
    disappear. And the AI took about a half hour (not an exaggeration) to
    process each turn. I'm amazed that I actually tried to play this
    thing more than once.


    Dav Vandenbroucke
    davanden at cox dot net
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    In article <1s0ov0pq1or4vps8pgtkb89lvj305568bs@4ax.com>,
    sbartman@visi.com says...
    >
    > I never installed the patch. I don't think 360 lasted long after that,
    > despite Harpoon.

    Didn't they become Atomic Games? Or am I misremembering?

    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000521.html
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    "Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1c65e2142becab0498a151@news-east.giganews.com...
    > In article <1s0ov0pq1or4vps8pgtkb89lvj305568bs@4ax.com>,
    > sbartman@visi.com says...
    > >
    > > I never installed the patch. I don't think 360 lasted long after that,
    > > despite Harpoon.
    >
    > Didn't they become Atomic Games? Or am I misremembering?
    >
    > --
    > Giftzwerg
    > ***
    > http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000521.html


    Yep, became Atomic.
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    > Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    > bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    > it. The worst game I ever played.
    >
    > Anybody remember this one?
    >
    > Kev

    I remember the name, but never bought it. It had some pretty negative
    things said about it. 360 Pacific put it out I think.

    --
    Epi

    I've started researching the "Bible Code."
    I'm trying to discover the contents of my
    upcoming birthday presents.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, kev9000 <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:
    : Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    : bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    : it. The worst game I ever played.
    :
    : Anybody remember this one?

    Thanks for bringing back a bad memory. You know it's an awful game when
    it's even worse than Sierra's Outpost, but Patriot was even less
    engaging and developed than Outpost was. 360 should have called it
    "Patriot: The Undocumented Spreadsheet."

    It was as much fun as a cold sore.

    Would have been a complete waste if the floppies weren't useful as
    freebsd boot disks (they were useful)...
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    >
    > Thanks for bringing back a bad memory. You know it's an awful game when
    > it's even worse than Sierra's Outpost, but Patriot was even less
    > engaging and developed than Outpost was. 360 should have called it
    > "Patriot: The Undocumented Spreadsheet."
    >
    > It was as much fun as a cold sore.
    >
    > Would have been a complete waste if the floppies weren't useful as
    > freebsd boot disks (they were useful)...
    >

    That exactly what I remember being said about it...a big spreadsheet
    with a map as a front end!

    For those that can't remember or want to see what the fuss is about, you
    can still download the spreadsheet...er, game, at
    http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Patriot. Never tried to get
    it to run on Win 98 or XP, no idea if it would even work at all.

    --
    Dave

    Go ARMY, Beat Navy!
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    > Didn't they [360] become Atomic Games?

    No. Atomic Games was an independent development team. 360 was just their
    first publisher. I heard that it was a lawsuit by Atomic for unpaid "V for
    Victory" royalties that finally put 360 out of business.

    Best regards, Major H.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    In article <BE226BD9.7CBA1%tacops@mac.com>, tacops@mac.com says...

    > > Didn't they [360] become Atomic Games?
    >
    > No. Atomic Games was an independent development team. 360 was just their
    > first publisher. I heard that it was a lawsuit by Atomic for unpaid "V for
    > Victory" royalties that finally put 360 out of business.

    Yes, that's right. I was mangling the association.

    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    " haven=3Ft the time or inclination to argue with people who
    think 'No WMD!' is the argument equivalent of a spreading a
    full house on the green felt table. It may seem so, but
    unfortunately we=3Fre playing chess."
    - James Lileks
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    Worst ever? Hasbro's Squad Leader. The only redeeming value is there
    were no viruses on the disk. 5 minutes total playing time. I tossed
    the disk and kept the case.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On 1 Feb 2005 10:53:11 -0800, general_colt@yahoo.com wrote:

    >Worst ever? Hasbro's Squad Leader. The only redeeming value is there
    >were no viruses on the disk. 5 minutes total playing time. I tossed
    >the disk and kept the case.

    It still has a crash bug even post patch.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    > Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    > bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    > it. The worst game I ever played.
    >
    > Anybody remember this one?

    I remember opening the box and installing it, sitting in front of the PC
    together with a friend who, like me, was an avid fan of "Harpoon" by
    Three-Sixty. We were full of excitement, until ten minutes in the game. We
    spent the next two hours trying to figure out what to do and, at the end, we
    parted believing that WE were too stupid to understand the game. Go figure.

    I tried to play it again out of curiosity a couple of years ago, and I'm
    still baffled about what you are supposed to DO in the game...
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    "Vincenzo Beretta" <reckall@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:aYNLd.22503$2h5.6109@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
    >> Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    >> bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    >> it. The worst game I ever played.
    >>
    >> Anybody remember this one?
    >
    I vote for Iron Cross or War College.
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    James Cobb wrote:
    > "Vincenzo Beretta" <reckall@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:aYNLd.22503$2h5.6109@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
    >
    >>>Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
    >>>bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
    >>>it. The worst game I ever played.
    >>>
    >>>Anybody remember this one?
    >>
    > I vote for Iron Cross or War College.
    >
    >
    How about Across the Rhine from the mid 90's? This has my vote as the
    most disappointing game of all time. I know it not a true wargame but I
    still have the emotional scars from this turkey.
    Alan
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:


    >How about Across the Rhine from the mid 90's? This has my vote as the
    >most disappointing game of all time. I know it not a true wargame but I
    >still have the emotional scars from this turkey.

    I bought that one too. I used to buy anything Microprose put out until
    that and Darklands. The visuals, maps, sounds, etc. were great for the
    time, but as I recall they didn't have the tank graphic scaling
    working so you could see/aim at an enemy more than about 200 yards
    away.

    There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
    "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
    scenarios from any time period, etc. It worked after a fashion, but it
    was so slow I never did generate a full game.Was running it on a 386,
    which was mainstream I recall, and let it crank for five hours trying
    to generate either a turn or a scenario. Don't recall which, but it
    wasn't playable. It might be now if you wanted a 3.4 gig box running
    DOS.

    I've never dumped any games so I'm sure it's up in the closet
    somewhere, rotting.

    Steve
    --
    www.thepaxamsolution.com
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    "Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
    news:feg3011jit01l0g2d577f8r2gpbd11fnje@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:
    >
    > > There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
    > "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
    > scenarios from any time period, etc.

    If I recall correctly, that construction kit was by the same guy you did War
    College.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    "James Cobb" <bismarck71@charter.net> wrote in message
    news:c1pMd.6048$9f.1502@fe04.lga...
    >
    > "Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
    > news:feg3011jit01l0g2d577f8r2gpbd11fnje@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> > There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
    >> "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
    >> scenarios from any time period, etc.
    >
    > If I recall correctly, that construction kit was by the same guy you did
    > War College.
    >
    Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.

    PM
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:40:00 -0500, "pmess" <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:


    >Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.

    Yes, that was it. Thanks for the correction. I think the WGCK was a
    few years later.

    Steve
    --
    www.thepaxamsolution.com
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    Wasn't the wargame construction kit done by Norm Koger??
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    totally different.


    "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1107468725.613360.137810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > Wasn't the wargame construction kit done by Norm Koger??
    >
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    Wasn't there a game by Dunnigan....War in the Pacific. By 360...

    I don't remember much but I am pretty sure it was awful....


    "Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
    news:s8s401th7p7e9egbllot4n18homl3hp23r@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:40:00 -0500, "pmess" <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.
    >
    > Yes, that was it. Thanks for the correction. I think the WGCK was a
    > few years later.
    >
    > Steve
    > --
    > www.thepaxamsolution.com
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    there are 8 million stories in the uncanny valley "pmess"
    <nospam@comcast.net> told one of them in
    news:GuudnSdrIsp_zp_fRVn-hw@comcast.com:

    >
    > "James Cobb" <bismarck71@charter.net> wrote in message
    > news:c1pMd.6048$9f.1502@fe04.lga...
    >>
    >> "Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
    >> news:feg3011jit01l0g2d577f8r2gpbd11fnje@4ax.com...
    >>> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
    >>> "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
    >>> scenarios from any time period, etc.
    >>
    >> If I recall correctly, that construction kit was by the same guy you
    >> did War College.
    >>
    > Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.
    >
    > PM
    >
    Yes, that was UMS-2, a truly slow and incomprehensible turkey. On
    machines of that time, the computer would take hours to make its moves.
    Wargame Construction Set was alright, being an SSI game, but not
    outstanding. The designer was Roger Damon. Later, Norm Koger did the
    sequels, "Tanks" and "Age of Rifles".


    --
    The Grand Wombat - maker of the 100,000,000th post to Usenet!!
    mhm 20x10
    meow -- wombats r us
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    > Yes, that was UMS-2, a truly slow and incomprehensible turkey. On
    > machines of that time, the computer would take hours to make its moves.
    > Wargame Construction Set was alright, being an SSI game, but not
    > outstanding. The designer was Roger Damon. Later, Norm Koger did the
    > sequels, "Tanks" and "Age of Rifles".

    I loaded it up years later. I was bored, and figured it would run much
    faster on a "modern" computer. I was wrong.

    --
    Epi

    Armstrong Williams was just the tip of the iceberg,
    Rush is the iceberg.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    In article <1105k4ql9q2ep95@corp.supernews.com>, briggs@surewest.net
    says...
    > Wasn't there a game by Dunnigan....War in the Pacific. By 360...
    >
    > I don't remember much but I am pretty sure it was awful....

    He was working on a Pacific game. I don't think it was ever finished.
    --
    Epi

    Armstrong Williams was just the tip of the iceberg,
    Rush is the iceberg.
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    In article <1107468725.613360.137810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    ryandylanr@yahoo.com says...

    > Wasn't the wargame construction kit done by Norm Koger??

    Not the original one, IIRC.

    Koger's TANKS was released as WARGAME CONSTRUCTION SET 2: TANKS, and I
    believe his AGE OF RIFLES might have had a WCS3 suffix on it. This was
    a decision by the publisher, SSI, rather than Koger, SFAIK.

    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    "So these Sunnis complain that the [Iraqi] election is illegitimate
    because they boycotted it. The obvious comparison is to the child
    in the classic definition of *chutzpah*, who kills his parents and
    pleads for mercy because he's an orphan."
    - James Taranto
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:36:27 GMT, Epi Watkins <epicat1212@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >In article <1105k4ql9q2ep95@corp.supernews.com>, briggs@surewest.net
    >says...
    >> Wasn't there a game by Dunnigan....War in the Pacific. By 360...
    >>
    >> I don't remember much but I am pretty sure it was awful....
    >
    >He was working on a Pacific game. I don't think it was ever finished.

    I think the Mac version was finished, but it was so bad the PC version
    was never finished. I remember reading a review of it in CGW mag. Also
    recall maybe a sidebar of an interview with him where he disassociated
    himself from the project?

    Steve
    --
    www.thepaxamsolution.com
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    In my list of "why did I buy that" is GI Combat. Besides the Real Time
    turn sequence, the camera controls were horrible. One instance you're
    looking from an altitude of 500 ft next you're stuck in a bush.

    Wayne
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    "Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1c6a96a2701a1acd98a160@news-east.giganews.com...
    >
    > My vote is for HARPOON2. I played the original HARPOON until the little
    > digital pathways on my 386 were melted from the relentless gaming. And
    > the copy about H2 sounded like God Herself was descending from On High
    > to transmute our gaming hell on earth into the New, True Nirvana.
    >
    > I almost ran home from the store with my copy, positively giddy with
    > anticipation...
    >
    > ...which lasted precisely five minutes after I got it installed. Crash.
    > Crash. Bug. Crash. Error. Bug. Crash. SYSTEM HALTED.
    >
    > And they never got it working right. That's a Worst Wargame.


    I believe that you can now get a heavily modified version of the Harpoon 2
    engine that finally works right...I seem to remember a web site that sells
    it, along with improved versions of Harpoon Classic....
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

    In article <JO-dnRswgIrt3ZXfRVn-hg@comcast.com>,
    ahorta@spamdie.comcast.net says...

    > > ...which lasted precisely five minutes after I got it installed. Crash.
    > > Crash. Bug. Crash. Error. Bug. Crash. SYSTEM HALTED.
    > >
    > > And they never got it working right. That's a Worst Wargame.
    >
    >
    > I believe that you can now get a heavily modified version of the Harpoon 2
    > engine that finally works right...I seem to remember a web site that sells
    > it, along with improved versions of Harpoon Classic....

    It's called HARPOON3, and it is pretty stable - although it's got a
    whole ant-farm of bugs that were never squashed[1] and is positively
    redolent of DOS programming shoehorned into a Windows/DirectX
    environment. But does (finally) work, and they're pretty quick with the
    new builds.

    A lot of money, though, for something that's very much a "work in
    progress." If you dislike paying to be a beta-tester, steer clear.


    [1] For instance, the current version has a bug that won't let you page
    around in the scenario list; touch a scenario name with your mouse and
    ZiiiP!, it loads.

    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    "This really is the future I wanted. Although I expected
    longer battery life."
    - James Lileks
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