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Worst Wargames?

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Anonymous
January 29, 2005 11:14:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

Don't post much - last time I was active around here was when it was
the old games-strategic newsgroup. Been lurking a bit again lately and
goos to see things are pretty lively and that there are good games
being published (mostly it seems by Matrix and the Bull Run geniuses at
MadMinute).

Small point/question.

Been going through some of my wargame collection, selling what's worth
selling and throwing out what isn't. And it dawns on me. In 20 years
of buying computer wargames the amount of money I have spent on:

(a) wargames that were good/interesting in design but unfinished and/or
buggy to the degree that they were unplayable

(b) poorly conceived and designed (and also in many cases unfinished
and/or buggy to some degree)

(c) well conceived, well-executed games that gave me many hours of
enjoyment out of.

Category (c) would account for a very small amount of wargames from my
shelves! Maybe I should have been a bit more discriminate!

Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
it. The worst game I ever played.

Anybody remember this one?

Kev

More about : worst wargames

Anonymous
January 29, 2005 3:01:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:


>Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
>bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
>it. The worst game I ever played.
>
>Anybody remember this one?
>
>Kev

Yea, I bought it too but I took it back to the store the next day and
got my money back.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 5:22:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
>bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
>it. The worst game I ever played.
>
>Anybody remember this one?

It was so buggy, they took out the air access from the game
since they never was able to get that part to run at all. It was
suppose to be Harpoon for land combat, at least that's how they were
marketing it back then.
--
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Politically Incorrect and proud of it.
My Mail Server is Protected by ChoiceMail.
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Anonymous
January 29, 2005 6:46:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:


>Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
>bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
>it. The worst game I ever played.
>
>Anybody remember this one?

It's in my closet. I played it about an hour.

My main memory is that it had the first and last mailed patch I ever
got-- 3.5" floppy disks in an envelope secured with a rubber band and
a little crude sheet about how to install. Maybe six or eight months
after the debacle of its initial ship. Then not another word until
now.

I never installed the patch. I don't think 360 lasted long after that,
despite Harpoon.

Steve
--
www.thepaxamsolution.com
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 7:48:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, "kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
>bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
>it. The worst game I ever played.

Oh, yeah. it was like watching a newsreel. You had almost no control
over anything that happened in the game.

Another awful game was Rise and Rule of Ancient Empires, although I
suppose it might be called a strategy game rather than a wargame. It
was a Civilization clone, more or less. There were all sorts of
fiddly settings to optimize production in each city, but they didn't
stay set. So each turn you had to go through every city and make sure
the settings were what you wanted. You tell stacks of units to go
somewhere, but if they happened to meet with another stack, they'd all
merge and take on the orders of one or the other stack. The enemy
never, ever attacked, even when it had huge superiority in numbers.
There was a limit to the number of cities that could be in the game.
Once it was hit, every time a city was created, another one would
disappear. And the AI took about a half hour (not an exaggeration) to
process each turn. I'm amazed that I actually tried to play this
thing more than once.



Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 9:11:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <1s0ov0pq1or4vps8pgtkb89lvj305568bs@4ax.com>,
sbartman@visi.com says...
>
> I never installed the patch. I don't think 360 lasted long after that,
> despite Harpoon.

Didn't they become Atomic Games? Or am I misremembering?

--
Giftzwerg
***
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000521.html
January 29, 2005 9:11:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

"Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c65e2142becab0498a151@news-east.giganews.com...
> In article <1s0ov0pq1or4vps8pgtkb89lvj305568bs@4ax.com>,
> sbartman@visi.com says...
> >
> > I never installed the patch. I don't think 360 lasted long after that,
> > despite Harpoon.
>
> Didn't they become Atomic Games? Or am I misremembering?
>
> --
> Giftzwerg
> ***
> http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000521.html


Yep, became Atomic.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 12:31:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
> bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
> it. The worst game I ever played.
>
> Anybody remember this one?
>
> Kev

I remember the name, but never bought it. It had some pretty negative
things said about it. 360 Pacific put it out I think.

--
Epi

I've started researching the "Bible Code."
I'm trying to discover the contents of my
upcoming birthday presents.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:16:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 29 Jan 2005 08:14:26 -0800, kev9000 <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote:
: Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
: bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
: it. The worst game I ever played.
:
: Anybody remember this one?

Thanks for bringing back a bad memory. You know it's an awful game when
it's even worse than Sierra's Outpost, but Patriot was even less
engaging and developed than Outpost was. 360 should have called it
"Patriot: The Undocumented Spreadsheet."

It was as much fun as a cold sore.

Would have been a complete waste if the floppies weren't useful as
freebsd boot disks (they were useful)...
January 30, 2005 5:20:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

>
> Thanks for bringing back a bad memory. You know it's an awful game when
> it's even worse than Sierra's Outpost, but Patriot was even less
> engaging and developed than Outpost was. 360 should have called it
> "Patriot: The Undocumented Spreadsheet."
>
> It was as much fun as a cold sore.
>
> Would have been a complete waste if the floppies weren't useful as
> freebsd boot disks (they were useful)...
>

That exactly what I remember being said about it...a big spreadsheet
with a map as a front end!

For those that can't remember or want to see what the fuss is about, you
can still download the spreadsheet...er, game, at
http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Patriot. Never tried to get
it to run on Win 98 or XP, no idea if it would even work at all.

--
Dave

Go ARMY, Beat Navy!
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 7:47:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> Didn't they [360] become Atomic Games?

No. Atomic Games was an independent development team. 360 was just their
first publisher. I heard that it was a lawsuit by Atomic for unpaid "V for
Victory" royalties that finally put 360 out of business.

Best regards, Major H.
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 10:25:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <BE226BD9.7CBA1%tacops@mac.com>, tacops@mac.com says...

> > Didn't they [360] become Atomic Games?
>
> No. Atomic Games was an independent development team. 360 was just their
> first publisher. I heard that it was a lawsuit by Atomic for unpaid "V for
> Victory" royalties that finally put 360 out of business.

Yes, that's right. I was mangling the association.

--
Giftzwerg
***
" haven=3Ft the time or inclination to argue with people who
think 'No WMD!' is the argument equivalent of a spreading a
full house on the green felt table. It may seem so, but
unfortunately we=3Fre playing chess."
- James Lileks
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 1:53:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

Worst ever? Hasbro's Squad Leader. The only redeeming value is there
were no viruses on the disk. 5 minutes total playing time. I tossed
the disk and kept the case.
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 5:20:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 1 Feb 2005 10:53:11 -0800, general_colt@yahoo.com wrote:

>Worst ever? Hasbro's Squad Leader. The only redeeming value is there
>were no viruses on the disk. 5 minutes total playing time. I tossed
>the disk and kept the case.

It still has a crash bug even post patch.
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 8:19:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
> bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
> it. The worst game I ever played.
>
> Anybody remember this one?

I remember opening the box and installing it, sitting in front of the PC
together with a friend who, like me, was an avid fan of "Harpoon" by
Three-Sixty. We were full of excitement, until ten minutes in the game. We
spent the next two hours trying to figure out what to do and, at the end, we
parted believing that WE were too stupid to understand the game. Go figure.

I tried to play it again out of curiosity a couple of years ago, and I'm
still baffled about what you are supposed to DO in the game...
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 8:19:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

"Vincenzo Beretta" <reckall@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aYNLd.22503$2h5.6109@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
>> Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
>> bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
>> it. The worst game I ever played.
>>
>> Anybody remember this one?
>
I vote for Iron Cross or War College.
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 10:08:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

James Cobb wrote:
> "Vincenzo Beretta" <reckall@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:aYNLd.22503$2h5.6109@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
>
>>>Last night I held in my hand a Gulf War game called Patriot that I
>>>bought I think in 1992-3. I remember playing it. All forty minutes of
>>>it. The worst game I ever played.
>>>
>>>Anybody remember this one?
>>
> I vote for Iron Cross or War College.
>
>
How about Across the Rhine from the mid 90's? This has my vote as the
most disappointing game of all time. I know it not a true wargame but I
still have the emotional scars from this turkey.
Alan
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 3:22:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:


>How about Across the Rhine from the mid 90's? This has my vote as the
>most disappointing game of all time. I know it not a true wargame but I
>still have the emotional scars from this turkey.

I bought that one too. I used to buy anything Microprose put out until
that and Darklands. The visuals, maps, sounds, etc. were great for the
time, but as I recall they didn't have the tank graphic scaling
working so you could see/aim at an enemy more than about 200 yards
away.

There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
"Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
scenarios from any time period, etc. It worked after a fashion, but it
was so slow I never did generate a full game.Was running it on a 386,
which was mainstream I recall, and let it crank for five hours trying
to generate either a turn or a scenario. Don't recall which, but it
wasn't playable. It might be now if you wanted a 3.4 gig box running
DOS.

I've never dumped any games so I'm sure it's up in the closet
somewhere, rotting.

Steve
--
www.thepaxamsolution.com
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 9:42:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

"Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:feg3011jit01l0g2d577f8r2gpbd11fnje@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
> "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
> scenarios from any time period, etc.

If I recall correctly, that construction kit was by the same guy you did War
College.
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 2:40:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

"James Cobb" <bismarck71@charter.net> wrote in message
news:c1pMd.6048$9f.1502@fe04.lga...
>
> "Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:feg3011jit01l0g2d577f8r2gpbd11fnje@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> > There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
>> "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
>> scenarios from any time period, etc.
>
> If I recall correctly, that construction kit was by the same guy you did
> War College.
>
Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.

PM
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 3:45:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:40:00 -0500, "pmess" <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:


>Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.

Yes, that was it. Thanks for the correction. I think the WGCK was a
few years later.

Steve
--
www.thepaxamsolution.com
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 5:12:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

Wasn't the wargame construction kit done by Norm Koger??
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 6:19:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

totally different.


"kev9000" <ryandylanr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107468725.613360.137810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Wasn't the wargame construction kit done by Norm Koger??
>
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 8:32:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

Wasn't there a game by Dunnigan....War in the Pacific. By 360...

I don't remember much but I am pretty sure it was awful....


"Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:s8s401th7p7e9egbllot4n18homl3hp23r@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:40:00 -0500, "pmess" <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.
>
> Yes, that was it. Thanks for the correction. I think the WGCK was a
> few years later.
>
> Steve
> --
> www.thepaxamsolution.com
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 4:23:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

there are 8 million stories in the uncanny valley "pmess"
<nospam@comcast.net> told one of them in
news:GuudnSdrIsp_zp_fRVn-hw@comcast.com:

>
> "James Cobb" <bismarck71@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:c1pMd.6048$9f.1502@fe04.lga...
>>
>> "Steve Bartman" <sbartman@visi.com> wrote in message
>> news:feg3011jit01l0g2d577f8r2gpbd11fnje@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:08:37 -0500, Alan H <Alahorn@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > There was another turkey I played about an hour. Something like
>>> "Wargame Construction Kit" maybe. Supposed to be able to create
>>> scenarios from any time period, etc.
>>
>> If I recall correctly, that construction kit was by the same guy you
>> did War College.
>>
> Sounds like UMS-2, made a great doorstop.
>
> PM
>
Yes, that was UMS-2, a truly slow and incomprehensible turkey. On
machines of that time, the computer would take hours to make its moves.
Wargame Construction Set was alright, being an SSI game, but not
outstanding. The designer was Roger Damon. Later, Norm Koger did the
sequels, "Tanks" and "Age of Rifles".



--
The Grand Wombat - maker of the 100,000,000th post to Usenet!!
mhm 20x10
meow -- wombats r us
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 4:34:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> Yes, that was UMS-2, a truly slow and incomprehensible turkey. On
> machines of that time, the computer would take hours to make its moves.
> Wargame Construction Set was alright, being an SSI game, but not
> outstanding. The designer was Roger Damon. Later, Norm Koger did the
> sequels, "Tanks" and "Age of Rifles".

I loaded it up years later. I was bored, and figured it would run much
faster on a "modern" computer. I was wrong.

--
Epi

Armstrong Williams was just the tip of the iceberg,
Rush is the iceberg.
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 4:36:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <1105k4ql9q2ep95@corp.supernews.com>, briggs@surewest.net
says...
> Wasn't there a game by Dunnigan....War in the Pacific. By 360...
>
> I don't remember much but I am pretty sure it was awful....

He was working on a Pacific game. I don't think it was ever finished.
--
Epi

Armstrong Williams was just the tip of the iceberg,
Rush is the iceberg.
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 9:18:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <1107468725.613360.137810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
ryandylanr@yahoo.com says...

> Wasn't the wargame construction kit done by Norm Koger??

Not the original one, IIRC.

Koger's TANKS was released as WARGAME CONSTRUCTION SET 2: TANKS, and I
believe his AGE OF RIFLES might have had a WCS3 suffix on it. This was
a decision by the publisher, SSI, rather than Koger, SFAIK.

--
Giftzwerg
***
"So these Sunnis complain that the [Iraqi] election is illegitimate
because they boycotted it. The obvious comparison is to the child
in the classic definition of *chutzpah*, who kills his parents and
pleads for mercy because he's an orphan."
- James Taranto
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 1:38:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:36:27 GMT, Epi Watkins <epicat1212@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <1105k4ql9q2ep95@corp.supernews.com>, briggs@surewest.net
>says...
>> Wasn't there a game by Dunnigan....War in the Pacific. By 360...
>>
>> I don't remember much but I am pretty sure it was awful....
>
>He was working on a Pacific game. I don't think it was ever finished.

I think the Mac version was finished, but it was so bad the PC version
was never finished. I remember reading a review of it in CGW mag. Also
recall maybe a sidebar of an interview with him where he disassociated
himself from the project?

Steve
--
www.thepaxamsolution.com
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 6:51:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In my list of "why did I buy that" is GI Combat. Besides the Real Time
turn sequence, the camera controls were horrible. One instance you're
looking from an altitude of 500 ft next you're stuck in a bush.

Wayne
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 2:30:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

"Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c6a96a2701a1acd98a160@news-east.giganews.com...
>
> My vote is for HARPOON2. I played the original HARPOON until the little
> digital pathways on my 386 were melted from the relentless gaming. And
> the copy about H2 sounded like God Herself was descending from On High
> to transmute our gaming hell on earth into the New, True Nirvana.
>
> I almost ran home from the store with my copy, positively giddy with
> anticipation...
>
> ...which lasted precisely five minutes after I got it installed. Crash.
> Crash. Bug. Crash. Error. Bug. Crash. SYSTEM HALTED.
>
> And they never got it working right. That's a Worst Wargame.


I believe that you can now get a heavily modified version of the Harpoon 2
engine that finally works right...I seem to remember a web site that sells
it, along with improved versions of Harpoon Classic....
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 10:19:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <JO-dnRswgIrt3ZXfRVn-hg@comcast.com>,
ahorta@spamdie.comcast.net says...

> > ...which lasted precisely five minutes after I got it installed. Crash.
> > Crash. Bug. Crash. Error. Bug. Crash. SYSTEM HALTED.
> >
> > And they never got it working right. That's a Worst Wargame.
>
>
> I believe that you can now get a heavily modified version of the Harpoon 2
> engine that finally works right...I seem to remember a web site that sells
> it, along with improved versions of Harpoon Classic....

It's called HARPOON3, and it is pretty stable - although it's got a
whole ant-farm of bugs that were never squashed[1] and is positively
redolent of DOS programming shoehorned into a Windows/DirectX
environment. But does (finally) work, and they're pretty quick with the
new builds.

A lot of money, though, for something that's very much a "work in
progress." If you dislike paying to be a beta-tester, steer clear.


[1] For instance, the current version has a bug that won't let you page
around in the scenario list; touch a scenario name with your mouse and
ZiiiP!, it loads.

--
Giftzwerg
***
"This really is the future I wanted. Although I expected
longer battery life."
- James Lileks
!