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Firewire drives into old Mac 9600?

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Anonymous
March 24, 2005 3:31:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi y'all,
I keep having people wanting to bring over firewire drives with
Protools sessions on them which they started elsewhere and want to
continue working on at my house. The problem is that my old Mac 9600
G3 has no firewire connections that I can see, only SCSI. It's an
antique relic I know, but it's rock solid running my PT 24 bit-48K TDM
system on System 8.6, with no crashes for years. So I'm reluctant to
just go buy a new computer, just to help out friends with their
projects. For my own in-house projects the 9600 works great.
Anyone have any clever suggestions for an easy work-around? The
external 9600's 80 Gig HD is in a "Storage Case Technologies Data Silo"
which is currently only using one of it's two slots for hard drives.
Could a removable Firewire drive thingy, (that's a scientific term), be
installed here? Or could I get a card for the 9600 with a firewire
connection on it? I still have one open slot within the 9600 itself.
I also have a new G4 laptop which does have a firewire connection,
but it only has Protools-LE on it, not TDM. Could I interface the
laptop and the 9600 somehow so that I could at least easily transfer
files back and forth? That would be very useful for my own projects as
well. But I run System 10.3 on the laptop which probably would be too
snooty to talk down to the G3's System 8.6. But the laptop does have
the option to run in some sort of "Vintage, all tube" mode which I
believe is System 9, so maybe they could talk to each other in that
language.
Any suggestions, short of buying a whole bunch of new gear?
Thanks as always for sharing your expertise!
Cheers, Rick Novak.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 4:47:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the great ideas Logan! I'm feeling a hair more optimistic.

However, I'm still stuck at an even more basic level; how do I
physically interface the G4 powerbook with the 9600 G3? As far as I
can tell, the laptop does not have a SCSI port and the 9600 does not
have USB or Firewire. Please forgive my computer illiteracy, but am I
simply missing some type of cable that will network these two computers
together? That would be great!
Thanks, Rick.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 7:59:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Hi y'all,
> I keep having people wanting to bring over firewire drives with
> Protools sessions on them which they started elsewhere and want to
> continue working on at my house. The problem is that my old Mac 9600
> G3 has no firewire connections that I can see, only SCSI. It's an
> antique relic I know, but it's rock solid running my PT 24 bit-48K TDM
> system on System 8.6, with no crashes for years. So I'm reluctant to
> just go buy a new computer, just to help out friends with their
> projects. For my own in-house projects the 9600 works great.
> Anyone have any clever suggestions for an easy work-around? The
> external 9600's 80 Gig HD is in a "Storage Case Technologies Data Silo"
> which is currently only using one of it's two slots for hard drives.
> Could a removable Firewire drive thingy, (that's a scientific term), be
> installed here? Or could I get a card for the 9600 with a firewire
> connection on it? I still have one open slot within the 9600 itself.
> I also have a new G4 laptop which does have a firewire connection,
> but it only has Protools-LE on it, not TDM. Could I interface the
> laptop and the 9600 somehow so that I could at least easily transfer
> files back and forth? That would be very useful for my own projects as
> well. But I run System 10.3 on the laptop which probably would be too
> snooty to talk down to the G3's System 8.6. But the laptop does have
> the option to run in some sort of "Vintage, all tube" mode which I
> believe is System 9, so maybe they could talk to each other in that
> language.
> Any suggestions, short of buying a whole bunch of new gear?
> Thanks as always for sharing your expertise!
> Cheers, Rick Novak.
>

You can certainly use the G4 as a bridge, but the transfer would take place
over 10bT ethernet, not particularily fast.

Here's what you should get:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_trio.html
It's a single PCI card with two Firewire ports, two USB 1.1/2.0 ports, and
two ATA/133 controllers. It requires OS 9.x, and while 8.6 is more trim for
audio, 9.2 is plenty stable. It definitely works with a 9600.

But frankly it's really time you upgraded...
Related resources
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 11:53:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rickymix wrote:
> I keep having people wanting to bring over firewire drives with
> Protools sessions on them which they started elsewhere and want to
> continue working on at my house. The problem is that my old Mac 9600
> G3 has no firewire connections that I can see, only SCSI.

> I also have a new G4 laptop which does have a firewire connection,
> but it only has Protools-LE on it, not TDM. Could I interface the
> laptop and the 9600 somehow so that I could at least easily transfer
> files back and forth? That would be very useful for my own projects as
> well. But I run System 10.3 on the laptop which probably would be too
> snooty to talk down to the G3's System 8.6.

Not necessarily. You should be able to do it with AppleShare.

Apple was smart enough not to change AFP (the apple filing protocol,
which is what two Macs speak to each other when sharing files) between
OS 9 and OS X too much for them to be unable to talk.

There are two ways of going about this with AppleShare, so if one doesn't
work, you might try the other:

(1) On the OS 9 machine, share your drive, then go over to the OS X
machine and try to mount the drive (by using "Connect to Server"
under the "Go" menu in the Finder). Then plug in the firewire
drive and drag files from one place to another while sitting at
the OS X machine.

(2) On the OS X machine, plug in the firewire drive. Then, copy
whatever you want to share to your Public folder (in your
home folder). Then go to System Preferences, and Sharing
within that, and turn on Personal File Sharing. Then, you
should be able to go over to the OS 9 machine and see the Public
stuff (through the Chooser).

Actually, you have some other options as well: you could turn on
FTP Access in the same Sharing window on the OS X machine that
you use to control Personal File Sharing, then use an FTP program
(like Fetch) on the OS 9 machine to grab a copy of things. That
might even be the best solution, since it will be fast, and it will
allow you to browse directly to the firewire drive instead of having
to copy stuff to the Public folder first.

- Logan
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 1:14:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rickymix wrote:
> However, I'm still stuck at an even more basic level; how do I
> physically interface the G4 powerbook with the 9600 G3? As far as I
> can tell, the laptop does not have a SCSI port and the 9600 does not
> have USB or Firewire. Please forgive my computer illiteracy, but am I
> simply missing some type of cable that will network these two computers
> together?

Oh, I was assuming they were already networked together!

But then I tend to assume that everyone has some sort of broadband
internet connection and all their machines plugged into a router
or something.

Anyway, assuming they both have Ethernet ports (the G4 should, and
the G3 might, and if not you can pick up a old Mac Ethernet for cheap
on eBay), the simplest thing to do would be to plug them both into
a broadband router thingy or an ethernet switch. You can get a
special ethernet cable (a "crossover" cable) and plug one ethernet
interface directly into the other, but ethernet wasn't designed to
work that way, and it makes things more complicated.

- Logan
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 1:14:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sZG0e.28829$Ux.14810@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> rickymix wrote:
> > However, I'm still stuck at an even more basic level; how do I
> > physically interface the G4 powerbook with the 9600 G3? As far as I
> > can tell, the laptop does not have a SCSI port and the 9600 does not
> > have USB or Firewire. Please forgive my computer illiteracy, but am I
> > simply missing some type of cable that will network these two computers
> > together?
>
> Oh, I was assuming they were already networked together!
>
> But then I tend to assume that everyone has some sort of broadband
> internet connection and all their machines plugged into a router
> or something.
>
> Anyway, assuming they both have Ethernet ports (the G4 should, and
> the G3 might, and if not you can pick up a old Mac Ethernet for cheap
> on eBay), the simplest thing to do would be to plug them both into
> a broadband router thingy or an ethernet switch. You can get a
> special ethernet cable (a "crossover" cable) and plug one ethernet
> interface directly into the other, but ethernet wasn't designed to
> work that way, and it makes things more complicated.
>
> - Logan

The G4 powerbook's ethernet switches to crossover mode automatically. The
9600 has built-in AAUI and 10bT ethernet. Hook'em up with cat5 and off you
go.

It's still damn slow for a full recording transfer though, 1.2MB/s tops. If
you got a $15 10/100bT card for the 9600 is would pick it up tenfold, but
again I bet you'll need OS 9. See a trend forming?
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 2:28:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <WSI0e.9051$If1.2024558@read2.cgocable.net>,
"Zigakly" <zigakly@nospam.cx> wrote:
>
> It's still damn slow for a full recording transfer though, 1.2MB/s tops.

Agreed. 10BaseT is really too slow for the files you'd be dealing with.
100BaseT would at least be tolerable.

> If you got a $15 10/100bT card for the 9600 is would pick it up tenfold,
> but again I bet you'll need OS 9.

Not necessarily. I have a couple of old Asante 10/100 PCI cards that
definitely work with 8.6. Try ebay.

In any case, it isn't worth messing with the OS on a machine like this.
If it were unstable, maybe, but not if it's working OK as-is.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 3:34:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rickymix wrote:

> However, I'm still stuck at an even more basic level; how do I
> physically interface the G4 powerbook with the 9600 G3? As far as I
> can tell, the laptop does not have a SCSI port and the 9600 does not
> have USB or Firewire. Please forgive my computer illiteracy, but am I
> simply missing some type of cable that will network these two computers
> together?

You want to netowrk them together via Ethernet. It will work.

_OSX: The Missing Manual_
David Pogue
O'Reilley Press

--
ha
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 3:34:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Zigakly wrote:

> But frankly it's really time you upgraded...

If what he has suits all other aspects of his work (and he does great
work) there is no point upgrading just for the hell of it and just
because it can be done. What works, works.

--
ha
March 25, 2005 4:32:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1gtxsna.nrv38l8mmmw8N%walkinay@thegrid.net>, hank alrich
<walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> Zigakly wrote:
>
> > But frankly it's really time you upgraded...
>
> If what he has suits all other aspects of his work (and he does great
> work) there is no point upgrading just for the hell of it and just
> because it can be done. What works, works.
>
> --
> ha


I agree with Hank. If all he needs is a $35 pci Firewire card for the
9600, why get another computer? (btw don't get a combo - with USB -
card. Just a FW card.)

I always wait for a creditable - which means a business or a creative
reason to upgrade my computer/Digidesign stuff. I run my Digi HD2
system on a 400mhz G4 with PT 5.31 because it crashes about once a year
and has all the horsepower I need.

I also have an 8500 with a Digi Audiomedia Card that also runs like a
champ for Sound Designer and MasterlistCD. I wouldn't think of
upgrading it. (If it ain't broke ... )

I'll someday drop my multitrack work into OS X and PT 6.7 or later.
That TDM plug in delay auto compensation capability has me a little
interested.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 9:05:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

[ networking a PowerMac 9600 and a G4 PowerBook ]

Zigakly wrote:
> The G4 powerbook's ethernet switches to crossover mode automatically. The
> 9600 has built-in AAUI and 10bT ethernet. Hook'em up with cat5 and off you
> go.
>
> It's still damn slow for a full recording transfer though, 1.2MB/s tops. If
> you got a $15 10/100bT card for the 9600 is would pick it up tenfold, but
> again I bet you'll need OS 9. See a trend forming?

The only thing I'd be afraid of there is autonegotiation of 10/100 and
half/full duplex: does it work correctly when you're going directly
from NIC to NIC, or does it only work with a switch? If you get a
10/100 switch (which can be had for cheap at the local computer store),
then you don't need to worry about that kind of issue, which is why
I still prefer using a switch. (But then I already *have* a switch...)

- Logan
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 11:58:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1111696284.859286.143490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"rickymix" <snovak2@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Anyone have any clever suggestions for an easy work-around? The
> external 9600's 80 Gig HD is in a "Storage Case Technologies Data Silo"
> which is currently only using one of it's two slots for hard drives.
> Could a removable Firewire drive thingy, (that's a scientific term), be
> installed here? Or could I get a card for the 9600 with a firewire
> connection on it? I still have one open slot within the 9600 itself.

Just get a firewire card, it works. I did the same thing with one of my 9600's.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 12:44:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jedd Haas wrote:

> In article <1111696284.859286.143490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> "rickymix" <snovak2@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Anyone have any clever suggestions for an easy work-around? The
>>external 9600's 80 Gig HD is in a "Storage Case Technologies Data Silo"
>>which is currently only using one of it's two slots for hard drives.
>>Could a removable Firewire drive thingy, (that's a scientific term), be
>>installed here? Or could I get a card for the 9600 with a firewire
>>connection on it? I still have one open slot within the 9600 itself.
>
>
> Just get a firewire card, it works. I did the same thing with one of my 9600's.
>


Does your 9600 do the "target drive" thing, too?
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 5:54:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Rick
I used a 9600 w/ firwire card on a 9600/350 with a Mix Plus system for about
two years with no problem. (OS 9.1) It ran beautifully (obviously you won't
have the RTAS options that a G4 will give you.)

One "bug": the firewire drivers have to be disabled when using Digi
hardware, but have to be enabled when copying larger files (50mb or more)
from drive to drive or you'll crash in either case. You'll have to have two
extension sets. Also, I'm not sure if a firewire card can run along side a
narrow card.

I have an extra Allegro FW400 in a box collecting dust. You're welcome to
it...it's only going to waste here. I can't guarantee it's compatability
with your setup, but it should be fine. Please do not reply to this
address. Send mailing/contact info to ClickRec@aol.com

John Tendy
Westchester, NY

"rickymix" <snovak2@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1111696284.859286.143490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi y'all,
> I keep having people wanting to bring over firewire drives with
> Protools sessions on them which they started elsewhere and want to
> continue working on at my house. The problem is that my old Mac 9600
> G3 has no firewire connections that I can see, only SCSI. It's an
> antique relic I know, but it's rock solid running my PT 24 bit-48K TDM
> system on System 8.6, with no crashes for years. So I'm reluctant to
> just go buy a new computer, just to help out friends with their
> projects. For my own in-house projects the 9600 works great.
> Anyone have any clever suggestions for an easy work-around? The
> external 9600's 80 Gig HD is in a "Storage Case Technologies Data Silo"
> which is currently only using one of it's two slots for hard drives.
> Could a removable Firewire drive thingy, (that's a scientific term), be
> installed here? Or could I get a card for the 9600 with a firewire
> connection on it? I still have one open slot within the 9600 itself.
> I also have a new G4 laptop which does have a firewire connection,
> but it only has Protools-LE on it, not TDM. Could I interface the
> laptop and the 9600 somehow so that I could at least easily transfer
> files back and forth? That would be very useful for my own projects as
> well. But I run System 10.3 on the laptop which probably would be too
> snooty to talk down to the G3's System 8.6. But the laptop does have
> the option to run in some sort of "Vintage, all tube" mode which I
> believe is System 9, so maybe they could talk to each other in that
> language.
> Any suggestions, short of buying a whole bunch of new gear?
> Thanks as always for sharing your expertise!
> Cheers, Rick Novak.
>
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 10:13:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gtxsna.nrv38l8mmmw8N%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Zigakly wrote:
>
> > But frankly it's really time you upgraded...
>
> If what he has suits all other aspects of his work (and he does great
> work) there is no point upgrading just for the hell of it and just
> because it can be done. What works, works.
>
> --
> ha

The guy is concerned that simply accommodating a Firewire drive might
destabilize his whole system, and rightly so. It's time to upgrade to
something else that will last him 10 years like the 9600 did. I know the
whole "ain't broke don't fix it" routine, but in this day and age a DAW
without Firewire is incomplete.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:47:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:

> Does your 9600 do the "target drive" thing, too?

Isn't that an OSX thing?

--
ha
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:47:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:
> S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Does your 9600 do the "target drive" thing, too?
>
>
> Isn't that an OSX thing?


I dunno, I thought 9.2.2 had it.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 7:40:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Zigakly wrote:

> The guy is concerned that simply accommodating a Firewire drive might
> destabilize his whole system, and rightly so. It's time to upgrade to
> something else that will last him 10 years like the 9600 did. I know the
> whole "ain't broke don't fix it" routine, but in this day and age a DAW
> without Firewire is incomplete.

Lots of folks are using PCI FW cards without trouble to take care of
that. Rick's only nervous becuase he hasn't looked into it. He's been
busy thinking about his next surfing safari. <g> If he asked on DAW-Mac
he'd get a list of satisfactory cards, and the warning to avoid combo FW
+ USB cards, which haven't seemed to work for anyone running PT. I think
he can get what he needs to do happening for less than fifty bucks,
without upsetting his ol' Mac.

I'm not opposed to upgrading; I just don't do it very often. Hell, I
still have an 8100 here with a 300 MHz G3 card in it, to run SDII on the
AMII card. It's not my primary DAW anymore, but it's also far from
useless.

--
ha
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 7:40:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

S O'Neill wrote:

> hank alrich wrote:
> > S O'Neill wrote:

> >>Does your 9600 do the "target drive" thing, too?

> > Isn't that an OSX thing?

> I dunno, I thought 9.2.2 had it.

Could be' I'll check that. Could be helpful if so. Thanks for the
suggestion.

--
ha
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 8:27:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RE the question:
<< Does your 9600 do the "target drive" thing, too? >>

Nope, 9600 (and a lot of other Macs) can't do it - it's a much more recent
thing. Not sure if it can even be "engaged" through a PCI-based Firewire card.

- John
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:40:51 -0500, hank alrich wrote
(in article <1gtzy8u.1la1x481oc1h4wN%walkinay@thegrid.net>):

> Zigakly wrote:
>
>> The guy is concerned that simply accommodating a Firewire drive might
>> destabilize his whole system, and rightly so. It's time to upgrade to
>> something else that will last him 10 years like the 9600 did. I know the
>> whole "ain't broke don't fix it" routine, but in this day and age a DAW
>> without Firewire is incomplete.
>
> Lots of folks are using PCI FW cards without trouble to take care of
> that. Rick's only nervous becuase he hasn't looked into it. He's been
> busy thinking about his next surfing safari. <g> If he asked on DAW-Mac
> he'd get a list of satisfactory cards, and the warning to avoid combo FW
> + USB cards, which haven't seemed to work for anyone running PT. I think
> he can get what he needs to do happening for less than fifty bucks,
> without upsetting his ol' Mac.
>
> I'm not opposed to upgrading; I just don't do it very often. Hell, I
> still have an 8100 here with a 300 MHz G3 card in it, to run SDII on the
> AMII card. It's not my primary DAW anymore, but it's also far from
> useless.
>
> --
> ha

PArdon me for hijacking the string. A friend asked me the other day about the
box that allows keyboard, monitor and mouse to be switched from one CPU to
another. Is there such a thing? Know anything about it.

BTW, since OSX, I'm pleasantly surprised to be reading my news from my laptop
in the living room while wirelessly accessing the application on my G5
downstairs.

I probably could have done that in OS 9, who knows.

Regards,

Ty



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:17:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:


> PArdon me for hijacking the string. A friend asked me the other day about the
> box that allows keyboard, monitor and mouse to be switched from one CPU to
> another. Is there such a thing? Know anything about it.


That would be a KVM (keyboard, video, mouse) switch. They work pretty
well, although I haven't used one with a Mac yet. The only problem I
can see there would be USB vs PS2 connections, I've only used PS2 style
(submini DIN).
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:37:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote:
>PArdon me for hijacking the string. A friend asked me the other day about the
>box that allows keyboard, monitor and mouse to be switched from one CPU to
>another. Is there such a thing? Know anything about it.

It's called a KVM switch (for keyboard, video, and mouse). CompUSA will have
a bunch to choose from. Don't buy the Belkin.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 4:04:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Folks wrote:
> Tons of cool stuff!

Wow, I go away for a day and there's a whole string of great
suggestions when I get back. Not only excellent free advice, but
offers of free gear and even free compliments! Thanky Hanky, and
everyone else as well. This newsgroup still rocks.

I actually did something halfway intelligent and asked about this stuff
at the Apple Genius Bar. They recommended getting a "Crossover
Ethernet Cable" to connect my laptop and 9600, which several people
above had also suggested. This seems like the most painless way to go,
so I'll try that first, since I'm fairly patient.
But how slow is slow? How long would it take to transfer, say a 3
Gig song between the laptop G4 and the 9600 G3? Twenty minutes or so
would be no problem for me, but twenty hours would be a bit much.

> That TDM plug in delay auto compensation capability has me a little
> interested.

Me too. That's the only thing that even remotely beckons me to
upgrade. I'd rather stay focused on music. Imagine John Lennon trying
to deal with all these computer issues by himself! Not that he
couldn't do it, nor that I'm John Lennon.
Thanks again, everyone!
Cheers, Rick.
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 3:12:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1111871062.804256.76160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"rickymix" <snovak2@earthlink.net> wrote:

> But how slow is slow? How long would it take to transfer, say a 3
> Gig song between the laptop G4 and the 9600 G3? Twenty minutes or so
> would be no problem for me, but twenty hours would be a bit much.

You could put a 100 Base T card into your PCI slot to speed up the networking.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 6:40:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

S O'Neill wrote:

> Ty Ford wrote:
>
>
>> PArdon me for hijacking the string. A friend asked me the other day
>> about the box that allows keyboard, monitor and mouse to be switched
>> from one CPU to another. Is there such a thing? Know anything about it.
>
>
>
> That would be a KVM (keyboard, video, mouse) switch. They work pretty
> well, although I haven't used one with a Mac yet. The only problem I
> can see there would be USB vs PS2 connections, I've only used PS2 style
> (submini DIN).
>
And with older Macs you would need to look for ADB connections, or an
adapter to PS/2 or USB.

CD
!