Wargame bounderies - where to draw the line

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

A couple of days ago Battlefront announced "DropTeam" which according
to the blurb is a "Sci-Fi multiplayer tactical simulation of mechanized
ground combat using a new groundbreaking and powerful 3D engine,
DropTeam is all about fun, fast and furious tactical action - but not
at the expense of realistic physics and a credible combat experience."

At first I catalogued this as a non-wargame, not to be included in my
list of wargames in development.

Then I started thinking (always a bad sign) - wargames have always had
what-if scenario's, in essence alternate universe stuff.

Going a step further : Flashpoint Germany : a complete game on a past
war that never happened but a true-blue wargame nonetheless.

Again a step further : how about a game on a possible war in the near
future - enter "The Star and the Crescent : The Arab/Israeli Wars 1956
to 2009".

So how about a wargame set in the distant future : Avalon Hill's
boardgame "Starship Troopers" based on Heinlein's universe.

Or that boardgame based on the Poul Anderson's "High Crusade" :
medieval shock battle tactics & archery vs. alien firepower.

So - where do you draw the line ?

I'm half inclined *not* to draw the line on the time scale, but on the
realism scale (a bit tricky with futuristic titles I know). A Sci-Fi
game set in a believable universe with believable hardware, where
realistic tactics and strategy determine the winner might be a wargame.

Opinions on this as always appreciated

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

I tend to agree, Eddy. I feel largely the same way and find that the
sci-fi genre in particular not only has good strategoy games but has
some good "wargames in disguise".

Regards,

- Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

Major H schreef:
> > So how about a wargame set in the distant future : Avalon Hill's
> > boardgame "Starship Troopers" based on Heinlein's universe.
>
> A long time dream of mine for the TacOps engine. However I doubt
that I
> will ever be able to bank enough for the license fee

Licence fee ? - just call it "Tarship Stroopers"

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 18 May 2005 05:33:36 -0700, "eddysterckx@hotmail.com"
<eddysterckx@hotmail.com> wrote:


>I'm half inclined *not* to draw the line on the time scale, but on the
>realism scale (a bit tricky with futuristic titles I know). A Sci-Fi
>game set in a believable universe with believable hardware, where
>realistic tactics and strategy determine the winner might be a wargame.

I agree. Starship Troopers was a serious wargame, through and through,
and SPI had a number of somewhat hardcore futuristic/sci-fi wargames
back in the '70s. Your sentence up above nails it, pretty much. Of
course, although these games can be 'wargames', they're not going to
be 'war.historical' games.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> So how about a wargame set in the distant future : Avalon Hill's
> boardgame "Starship Troopers" based on Heinlein's universe.

A long time dream of mine for the TacOps engine. However I doubt that I
will ever be able to bank enough for the license fee - still I buy the
occasional lottery ticket, just in case.

Best regards, Major H.
tacops@mac.com
http://www.battlefront.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> A long time dream of mine for the TacOps engine.

Jeez. This thread brought back something that I had completely forgotten.
Back in the Arsenal days I worked with a scifi fan for several months on a
TacOps scifi universe. The project drifted away during the breakup.

Best regards, Major H.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> Licence fee ? - just call it "Tarship Stroopers"

No thanks. One close encounter with the "Hasborg" lawyers was enough for
me. A true alien abduction that was thwarted only because Avalon Hill
neglected to include one of its standard boilerplate paragraphs.

Best regards, Major H.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing about the definition of
wargame that says it has to be historical. A science fiction game can
be a wargame just as much as a game about Waterloo. A fuzzier area is
where to draw the line between a wargame and a game with a war theme.
Axis & Allies? Milton Bradley's Dogfight? Conflict? Chess? That's
a subject of endless debate.


Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

On 18 May 2005 05:33:36 -0700, "eddysterckx@hotmail.com"
<eddysterckx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So - where do you draw the line ?
>
>I'm half inclined *not* to draw the line on the time scale, but on the
>realism scale (a bit tricky with futuristic titles I know). A Sci-Fi
>game set in a believable universe with believable hardware, where
>realistic tactics and strategy determine the winner might be a wargame.
>
>Opinions on this as always appreciated
>
>Greetz,
>
>Eddy Sterckx

So given your logic, Panzer General isn't a wargame because it doesn't
rate very high on the 'realism scale'? How about something like
Pirates, it involves a lot of killing and it's realistic in a lot of
ways. Does that qualify it as a wargame?

Personally, I tend not to differentiate between a wargame and a
strategy game. ... hell, I could even make a good arguement that a lot
of RPGs, including the online ones, are wargames.

I guess that's why I never got all the bitching about whether
something like EU should be discussed in this NG. It's historical and
it involves wars so why shouldn't it be discussed here?

So, I guess my answer would be; 'Life is to short to worry about
whether something is a wargame or not.'. ;-)

Rgds, Frank

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

> I tend to agree, Eddy. I feel largely the same way and find that the
> sci-fi genre in particular not only has good strategoy games but has
> some good "wargames in disguise".

Additionally, good sci-fi GAMES aren't compromised as much by "realism".
One of my favourite squad-based games is Warhammer 40k: Chaos Gate. It uses
the same engine as the much derided "Avalon Hill Squad Leader" but it never
attracted anywhere near as much criticism.

Why? Well, IMO because no one could ever seriously criticise a game
developer for unrealistically modelling a heavy plasma cannon. An MG42, on
the other hand ...

Andy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cf50f4190abce2198a33a@news-east.giganews.com>,
giftzwerg999@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com says...
> In article <1116419616.004271.117750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> eddysterckx@hotmail.com says...
> > So how about a wargame set in the distant future : Avalon Hill's
> > boardgame "Starship Troopers" based on Heinlein's universe.
> I still think the hands-down-best squad-based combat game is FALLOUT
> TACTICS. Of course, one has to contend with Super Mutants, Killer
> Robots, and hardware like "Advanced Power Armor MkII," but it's still a
> great squad based game.

I have to disagree here, fallout tactics is not nearly as good as
Silent Storm, X-com, or Jagged Aliance. (As long as one ignores all
forms of stealth, entirely)

- Factory

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical (More info?)

In article <BEB0B3AB.824CB%tacops@mac.com>, tacops@mac.com says...
> > So how about a wargame set in the distant future : Avalon Hill's
> > boardgame "Starship Troopers" based on Heinlein's universe.
>
> A long time dream of mine for the TacOps engine. However I doubt that I
> will ever be able to bank enough for the license fee - still I buy the
> occasional lottery ticket, just in case.

What does ST bring to the table that any other military scifi setting
doesn't? Both the book and the movie used elements that were not unique,
and indeed have been used in many other stories before. It was generally
the whole layer above the bits that would get into a computer game that
made those stories good.

- Factory