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What EXACTLY happens when you press the PFL button?

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Anonymous
March 30, 2005 7:16:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I only have AFL on my studiomixer, but I'm about to start doing some
"life" jobs so I really need to understand the PFL button.

Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
soundcheck? On which outputs is the PFL signal present and which
outputs of the desk remain unaffected?

Unfortunalety I don't have access to a PFL mixer so I would really
appreciate some info on the subject. It will save me the stress of
having to find out during the soundcheck..!

Thanks.

More about : press pfl button

Anonymous
March 30, 2005 10:00:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anseo wrote:
> I only have AFL on my studiomixer, but I'm about to start doing some
> "life" jobs so I really need to understand the PFL button.
>
> Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
> soundcheck? On which outputs is the PFL signal present and which
> outputs of the desk remain unaffected?

My board has PFL on inputs and subs and
AFL on aux sends.
The signal is sent to the control room
outputs, the headphones and one of the
meters. In an stage/FOH setting the CR
outputs could send to a 'reference wedge'
as an alternative to the phones for
checking signal quality of inputs.
The main, submix and aux outputs are
uneffected by use of PFL/AFL.

> Unfortunalety I don't have access to a PFL mixer so I would really
> appreciate some info on the subject. It will save me the stress of
> having to find out during the soundcheck..!
>
> Thanks.

I like to have a pair of closed headphones
with me to listen to PFLs and AFL aux sends
for both monitors and effects sends.

rd
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:39:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4f16a015.0503301516.17cec455@posting.google.com> anseo@wanadoo.nl writes:

> I really need to understand the PFL button.
>
> Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
> soundcheck? On which outputs is the PFL signal present and which
> outputs of the desk remain unaffected?

Well, it all depends. Most consoles send the PFL only to the
headphones and control room (monitor) output, and leave all the other
outputs alone. But there have been some which switch the main outputs
too, though that function is usually labled SOLO (and they mean it).

On most mixers, the signal is taken right ahead of the fader, so it
lets you listen to what the EQ and any processor plugged into a
channel insert is doing. And since it works with the fader down, you
get to hear it before the audience does.

> Unfortunalety I don't have access to a PFL mixer so I would really
> appreciate some info on the subject. It will save me the stress of
> having to find out during the soundcheck..!

Get to sound check early and do a sound check of your own. You can
learn a lot in about two minutes.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:00:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks a lot, I think I got it now.

So, usually, the PFL solo's the channel pre-fader (but post EQ) and
the solo signal is present on the Control Room & headphone outputs.
The other outputs of the desk simply ignore any PFL setting. So, if I
connect the PA to the main output of the desk, and the monitors to the
pre-aux outputs, I can check things using PFL and headphones without
the audience and musicians noticing.

If I'm wrong about anything please let me know.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:19:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 3/30/05 6:16 PM, in article
4f16a015.0503301516.17cec455@posting.google.com, "Anseo" <anseo@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

> I only have AFL on my studiomixer, but I'm about to start doing some
> "life" jobs so I really need to understand the PFL button.
>
> Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
> soundcheck?

You can have the fader DOWN and out of the mix and still troubleshoot
something on that line.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 4:17:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anseo wrote:
> I only have AFL on my studiomixer, but I'm about to start doing some
> "life" jobs so I really need to understand the PFL button.

I like to think that, ideally, all my channels have their gain set
so that the level going into the fader (which is the level you will
hear with PFL) is about the same from channel to channel. Then,
in theory, if I put all the faders at 0 dB, there will be an equal
amount of everything in the mix, more or less.

Going with that theory, PFL makes more sense to me because if
you're hitting PFL to listen to individual channels and figure
out where some noise is coming from[1], the levels are about the
same from one channel to the next.

Also, like someone else said, it certainly makes it easier to
diagnose things when the faders are down.

- Logan

[1] Like this weekend when we had an organist playing, and he'd
taken the grille off one side of the Leslie, and then he
bumped the mic stand and pushed the mic waaaay too close
to the rotating horn. Luckily this resulted only in a
really bassy helicopter sound rather than "thunk thunk
thunk thunk thunk".
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:24:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anseo wrote:
> Thanks a lot, I think I got it now.
>
> So, usually, the PFL solo's the channel pre-fader (but post EQ) and
> the solo signal is present on the Control Room & headphone outputs.
> The other outputs of the desk simply ignore any PFL setting. So, if I
> connect the PA to the main output of the desk, and the monitors to the
> pre-aux outputs, I can check things using PFL and headphones without
> the audience and musicians noticing.

Yes, basically. PFL doesn't affect any outputs except those which
are meant only for the mixing engineer's ears: headphone out,
monitor out (not aux out), etc. It doesn't affect the main output,
the channel outputs (if you have them), the aux bus outputs, or
the submix outputs (if you have them).

- Logan
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 2:21:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In broadcasting and production studios, PFL (pronounced "piffle") doesn't
only apply to a mult-channel mixer - it is a facility included in any
reproduction /insertion/live line source apparatus which is put there purely
for pre-testing a route (for level, quality, the correct take, etc) *before*
actual use or transmission, but would be heard only on local cans or via
momentary diversion of PFL monitor to that source.
Its audio cannot go to main o/p unless the local pot/fader is open and the
desk fader for that source happens to be selected and open at the main desk.
In some designs using the PFL mode via a key switch actually cancels the o/p
till flipped to Enable or O/P ON, but could lead to operational error if not
restored..
Note: Some older equipment even had an AVAILABILITY mode switch to
enable/cancel the o/p.
Jim



"Anseo" <anseo@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:4f16a015.0503301516.17cec455@posting.google.com...
>I only have AFL on my studiomixer, but I'm about to start doing some
> "life" jobs so I really need to understand the PFL button.
>
> Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
> soundcheck? On which outputs is the PFL signal present and which
> outputs of the desk remain unaffected?
>
> Unfortunalety I don't have access to a PFL mixer so I would really
> appreciate some info on the subject. It will save me the stress of
> having to find out during the soundcheck..!
>
> Thanks.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 2:37:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4f16a015.0503302300.50082e@posting.google.com>,
Anseo <anseo@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>Thanks a lot, I think I got it now.
>
>So, usually, the PFL solo's the channel pre-fader (but post EQ) and
>the solo signal is present on the Control Room & headphone outputs.
>The other outputs of the desk simply ignore any PFL setting. So, if I
>connect the PA to the main output of the desk, and the monitors to the
>pre-aux outputs, I can check things using PFL and headphones without
>the audience and musicians noticing.
>
>If I'm wrong about anything please let me know.

Right. The "control room" outputs and the headphone outputs are affected
without the main outputs being affected.

On some recording boards, there is usually a monitor section that has a volume
control and a bunch of buttons or a rotary switch that allow you to select
whether you're listening to the stereo mix, any of the record feeds, or to
the PFL buss. So you have to press the PFL button AND have PFL selected
on the monitor section in order to be able to hear the channel strip that
you care about.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:50:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

When a channel's momentary PFL is selected, some live-use desks
automatically change over the right-hand monitor and B metering to PFL
source, whilst an obvious "mode altered" warning lamp comes on, so
continuity of programme is heard on left and vaguely measured. Variations of
this tool abound.


"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 2h5ev$1v8$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <4f16a015.0503302300.50082e@posting.google.com>,
> Anseo <anseo@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>>Thanks a lot, I think I got it now.
>>
>>So, usually, the PFL solo's the channel pre-fader (but post EQ) and
>>the solo signal is present on the Control Room & headphone outputs.
>>The other outputs of the desk simply ignore any PFL setting. So, if I
>>connect the PA to the main output of the desk, and the monitors to the
>>pre-aux outputs, I can check things using PFL and headphones without
>>the audience and musicians noticing.
>>
>>If I'm wrong about anything please let me know.
>
> Right. The "control room" outputs and the headphone outputs are affected
> without the main outputs being affected.
>
> On some recording boards, there is usually a monitor section that has a
> volume
> control and a bunch of buttons or a rotary switch that allow you to select
> whether you're listening to the stereo mix, any of the record feeds, or to
> the PFL buss. So you have to press the PFL button AND have PFL selected
> on the monitor section in order to be able to hear the channel strip that
> you care about.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:50:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jim Gregory <jim.greg@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>When a channel's momentary PFL is selected, some live-use desks
>automatically change over the right-hand monitor and B metering to PFL
>source, whilst an obvious "mode altered" warning lamp comes on, so
>continuity of programme is heard on left and vaguely measured. Variations of
>this tool abound.

And sometimes (like on the Mackie) that lamp is not always so obvious and
you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans are
dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive channel....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:50:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> And sometimes (like on the Mackie) that lamp is not always so obvious and
> you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans are
> dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive channel....

This is a common problem when there are cats in the house. .
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:50:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <d2hl5k$1gi$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> And sometimes (like on the Mackie) that lamp is not always so obvious and
> you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans are
> dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive channel....

What? The Mackie "Rude Solo" LED is the bigger than all the other LEDs
on the console, and it blinks. But then it's hard to see the state of
any LEDs in the bright sun.

The Onyx series, in addition to the large blinking Solo light, has an
LED adjacent to each of the channel solo buttons, so if you can see
the lights at all, you can tell which channel is in solo.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:50:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <d2hl5k$1gi$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:
>
> > And sometimes (like on the Mackie) that lamp is not always so
obvious and
> > you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans
are
> > dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive
channel....
>
> What? The Mackie "Rude Solo" LED is the bigger than all the other
LEDs
> on the console, and it blinks. But then it's hard to see the state of
> any LEDs in the bright sun.
>
> The Onyx series, in addition to the large blinking Solo light, has an
> LED adjacent to each of the channel solo buttons, so if you can see
> the lights at all, you can tell which channel is in solo.

I'd like to replace the 'steady on' PFL LED
on mine with the 'Rude-style' flashing LED,
at least on the master section. (cats)
It would be a lot of work to do all the
channels too.
Another mod for the Delta !

rd
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:38:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm sorry I've never used a Mackie, which I keep reading about, sadly only
familiar with Brit pro broadcast, AV production and record, and ENG & OB
(remotes) mixing stuff.
I am convinced PFL should never ever be made latching on a live-use desk -
to avoid error, guesswork and sheer panic.
AFL solo-in-place (stereo) has worse gravitas if allowed to be latching. You
could lose all live monitoring till you worked out what has happened.


"Joe Sensor" <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote in message
news:3b34hvF68va2fU1@individual.net...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> And sometimes (like on the Mackie) that lamp is not always so obvious and
>> you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans are
>> dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive channel....
>
> This is a common problem when there are cats in the house. .
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:13:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yep. JohnnyV constantly listens to the PFL on channels to stay abreast of
possible problems on live situations, which is one of the reasons why I like
having him do the FOH/tracking and then I'll take the tracks and do the
multitrack transfers and mixing. He has better ears and I can act as stage
tech. I guess technically that means he should be doing the mixing too, but
hey, I have to have something to do! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
news:BE709E45.439E%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com...
> On 3/30/05 6:16 PM, in article
> 4f16a015.0503301516.17cec455@posting.google.com, "Anseo"
<anseo@wanadoo.nl>
> wrote:
>
> > I only have AFL on my studiomixer, but I'm about to start doing some
> > "life" jobs so I really need to understand the PFL button.
> >
> > Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
> > soundcheck?
>
> You can have the fader DOWN and out of the mix and still troubleshoot
> something on that line.
>
>
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:15:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> But there have been some which switch the main outputs
> too, though that function is usually labled SOLO (and they mean it).

You DO NOT want to learn this during a live performance.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1112227195k@trad...
>
> In article <4f16a015.0503301516.17cec455@posting.google.com>
anseo@wanadoo.nl writes:
>
> > I really need to understand the PFL button.
> >
> > Has it other functions besides setting the gain for a channel at the
> > soundcheck? On which outputs is the PFL signal present and which
> > outputs of the desk remain unaffected?
>
> Well, it all depends. Most consoles send the PFL only to the
> headphones and control room (monitor) output, and leave all the other
> outputs alone.>
> On most mixers, the signal is taken right ahead of the fader, so it
> lets you listen to what the EQ and any processor plugged into a
> channel insert is doing. And since it works with the fader down, you
> get to hear it before the audience does.
>
> > Unfortunalety I don't have access to a PFL mixer so I would really
> > appreciate some info on the subject. It will save me the stress of
> > having to find out during the soundcheck..!
>
> Get to sound check early and do a sound check of your own. You can
> learn a lot in about two minutes.
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:17:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>
> you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans
> are dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive
> channel....



Here's a cool feature -- the "PFL Active" light on our Studer is also a
pushbutton. Press it and it clears *all* PFL/Solo buttons. Handy when
you're in a hurry!

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:17:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jim Gregory" <jim.greg@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> I am convinced PFL should never ever be made latching on a live-use
> desk



Heck, that's minor. The genius who designed our desk put in a latching
TALKBACK switch! Talk about a recipe for disaster...

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:17:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:


> Here's a cool feature -- the "PFL Active" light on our Studer is also a
> pushbutton. Press it and it clears *all* PFL/Solo buttons. Handy when
> you're in a hurry!
>

Nice! Especially for those that never use solo functions anyway.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:17:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:


> Heck, that's minor. The genius who designed our desk put in a latching
> TALKBACK switch! Talk about a recipe for disaster...

That IS stupid. And I can't ever imagine the need to have it latch.
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 3:08:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Why? Red lights mean "keep watch" so what's the misunderstanding? If
something goes wrong and there are red lights on, turn them off. Simple.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
"RD Jones" <annonn@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1112317290.621626.233490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Rivers wrote:
> > In article <d2hl5k$1gi$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:
> >
> > > And sometimes (like on the Mackie) that lamp is not always so
> obvious and
> > > you can spend a good bit of time trying to figure out why the cans
> are
> > > dead, when actually you are listening to a PFL of an inactive
> channel....
> >
> > What? The Mackie "Rude Solo" LED is the bigger than all the other
> LEDs
> > on the console, and it blinks. But then it's hard to see the state of
> > any LEDs in the bright sun.
> >
> > The Onyx series, in addition to the large blinking Solo light, has an
> > LED adjacent to each of the channel solo buttons, so if you can see
> > the lights at all, you can tell which channel is in solo.
>
> I'd like to replace the 'steady on' PFL LED
> on mine with the 'Rude-style' flashing LED,
> at least on the master section. (cats)
> It would be a lot of work to do all the
> channels too.
> Another mod for the Delta !
>
> rd
>
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 2:40:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
> >Why? Red lights mean "keep watch" so what's the misunderstanding?
If
> >something goes wrong and there are red lights on, turn them off.
Simple.
>
> That's why the red light should come ON when a channel is active, and
> it should go OFF when the channel is muted.
> --scott


In my case is it due to poor color vision.
The difference between the red and green leds
is much less distinct to me than others,
especially when I'm paying attention to
something else in less than optimum lighting.
The red PFL and green ON leds are next to each
other on the channels and I'm thinking the 'rude'
master PFL led might help in certain situations.
I have used the Mackies for live sound.

rd
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 4:49:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
>Why? Red lights mean "keep watch" so what's the misunderstanding? If
>something goes wrong and there are red lights on, turn them off. Simple.

That's why the red light should come ON when a channel is active, and
it should go OFF when the channel is muted.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 6:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RD Jones <annonn@juno.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
>> >Why? Red lights mean "keep watch" so what's the misunderstanding?
>If
>> >something goes wrong and there are red lights on, turn them off.
>Simple.
>>
>> That's why the red light should come ON when a channel is active, and
>> it should go OFF when the channel is muted.
>
>In my case is it due to poor color vision.
>The difference between the red and green leds
>is much less distinct to me than others,
>especially when I'm paying attention to
>something else in less than optimum lighting.
>The red PFL and green ON leds are next to each
>other on the channels and I'm thinking the 'rude'
>master PFL led might help in certain situations.
>I have used the Mackies for live sound.

Hmm... how about swapping the green LEDs out for blue ones? There aren't
THAT many of them on the board, and the blue LEDs are pretty cheap now.
Would that help you at all?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 7:15:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

> Heck, that's minor. The genius who designed our desk put in a latching
> TALKBACK switch! Talk about a recipe for disaster...

There's a local festival I don't play no mo'. They insist on hiring SR
folks who do things like spend 20 mintues of what could have been a 45
minute set complaining that the feedback problem is due to my truly
professkonal picking pal's Super 400. No way could it have anything to
do with the FOH man's talkback mic lieing on the console, wide open, and
pointed at the stacks...

--
ha
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 4:04:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thought I said that. Unless you mean having a red light on an active
channel strip, then I disagree. But if you mean on outside routing of the
channel strip, then I agree.
--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 2rr6d$kee$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
> >Why? Red lights mean "keep watch" so what's the misunderstanding? If
> >something goes wrong and there are red lights on, turn them off. Simple.
>
> That's why the red light should come ON when a channel is active, and
> it should go OFF when the channel is muted.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
!