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Consumer Stereo (4 tracks) Open-Reel -- 15ips?

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Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

Did a search on this, but couldn't find an answer.

In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of 4
tracks) running at 15ips?

If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were they
more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?

Thanks,

Adam
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Adam Kendall <ngacct@hellbender.org> wrote:
>
>In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of 4
>tracks) running at 15ips?

There were a couple. The A77 could be purchased in a high-speed version,
and some of the Technics machines were available with 15 ips speed. They
were pretty rare.

>If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were they
>more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?

No, average people wanted more running time and cheaper tape costs. That's
the whole reason for the godawful quarter-track standard in the first place.

You will very seldom see quarter-track 15 ips machines, although there were
a few made.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Adam Kendall" wrote ...
> In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines
> (i.e., total of 4 tracks) running at 15ips?
>
> If so, were they standard enough that average people used
> them, or were they more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?

4-track machines were much more likely to be running 7.5 IPS
as this was the "consumer release" format of the day (as you
have correctly identified).

15 IPS was more likely found on 2-track machines which were
used for more professional applications (tracking, mastering,
etc.)

There were a few machines that would do 4-track and 15 IPS,
but they generally did 2-track also, with 4-track as an "extra
feature" rather than as the primary mode.

I have one such machine, a Sony TC-850. It actually has inter-
changable head-stacks, 2-track (with extra 4-track playback),
and 4-track (with extra 2-track playback). It would run 3.75,
7.5, and 15 IPS and runs up to 10.5 inch reels.

There was a period where many titles were available in pre-
recorded 4-track stereo, but I doubt that they ever amounted to
even 5% of the catalog. That by itself would indicate that it
was a specialty, esoteric, audiophile phenomenon. Philips
Compact Audio Cassette was a far more popular consumer
tape-based release format.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Crown 724's were configured stereo 4 track quite a bit @ 15ips.
Nice machines.

jm
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Adam Kendall" <ngacct@hellbender.org> wrote in message
news:BE72CE7B.9BD43%ngacct@hellbender.org...
> Hi,
>
> Did a search on this, but couldn't find an answer.
>
> In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of
> 4
> tracks) running at 15ips?
>
> If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were
> they
> more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam

I believe that Crown, Teac, Pioneer, and maybe Sony had 4-track 1/4 inch 15
ips machines. In the early 70s I did a ton of what we would today call
sound design for multi-media shows, shows using multiple Kodak Ektographic
slide projectors. In some cases two of the three tracks were used for
stereo audio, while two tracks were used to trigger the slide changes. In
at least one case we used three tracks for audio --- track 3 fed a pair of
speakers at the back of the room --- and a single track used tones
frequency-keyed to each projector for slide changes. And, then came video
walls.

Steve King
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Adam Kendall wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Did a search on this, but couldn't find an answer.
>
> In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of 4
> tracks) running at 15ips?

Since no one else mentioned it, there was the Roberts. My friend
John had one, and it had a 2-speed motor and a removalble
pinch roller "sleeve", so that it ranged from 3 3/4 to 15 ips.
Don't remember how good it was, but it took a lot of use and
abuse, I think he still has it.

Henry.

> If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were they
> more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:10:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I seem to recall the TEAC 3440 coming in a 15ips version and Pioneer had
a reel-to-reel deck on the consumer market that had interchangable head
stacks and configurable channel amps. They sold it as part of a
complete rack system with turntable, tuner, preamplifier, amplifier and
choice of speakers. I used to ride my bike up to a local Highland
Appliance (remember those?) and drool for one of those racks.

doobashoe@yahoo.com wrote:

>Crown 724's were configured stereo 4 track quite a bit @ 15ips.
>Nice machines.
>
>jm
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:18:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BE72CE7B.9BD43%ngacct@hellbender.org> ngacct@hellbender.org writes:

> In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of 4
> tracks) running at 15ips?

Sony had one, and I'm pretty sure there was a high speed version of
the TASCAM 3340.

> If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were they
> more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?

Audiophiles. Consumers didn't like to buy tape (just like studio
clients, once digital came along) and they liked 3-3/4 IPS, and
quarter-track stereo. There were some prerecorded stereo tapes at
7-1/2 ips (most were 3-3/4 ips), but I don't recall any at 15 ips
unless they were near one-offs.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:29:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks, guys.

Adam
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:39:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Henry Salvia <hjs@cadence.com> wrote:
>
>Since no one else mentioned it, there was the Roberts. My friend
>John had one, and it had a 2-speed motor and a removalble
>pinch roller "sleeve", so that it ranged from 3 3/4 to 15 ips.
>Don't remember how good it was, but it took a lot of use and
>abuse, I think he still has it.


AAAGH! I'm STILL trying to forget that horror. Please don't mention
it any more.

I do, incidentally, still have parts for the Roberts/Akai machines here.
Not that they are worth repairing, but I have parts anyway.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 8:28:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:10:13 GMT, Adam Kendall <ngacct@hellbender.org>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Did a search on this, but couldn't find an answer.
>
>In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of 4
>tracks) running at 15ips?
>
>If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were they
>more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Adam
I was an audio Geek, not an audio proffesional, so real people did buy
them <G>.

I have an Akai GX400D-SS. 10" reels, 3 speeds, Stereo (with
AutoReverse play), Quad Record/Play(single direction), "SimulSync"
recording to allow laying down a single track at a time. 4 HiZ Mic
inputs, 4 line inputs with individual level controls. "Quad" headphone
Jacks (True 4 channels). Thete was a 2-track (GX-400D-Pro) version
built with the same transport and case.

I tweaked mine to leave the Quad tape "Tail Out" ( I rewind and it
Auto plays when it hits the leader sense foil).

, _
, | \ MKA: Steve Urbach
, | )erek No JUNK in my email please
, ____|_/ragonsclaw dragonsclawJUNK@JUNKmindspring.com
, / / / Running United Devices "Cure For Cancer" Project 24/7 Have you helped? http://www.grid.org
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 10:06:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Greg Taylor" <gtaylor@umd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:fwe3e.257$r6.75@news.itd.umich.edu...
> I seem to recall the TEAC 3440 coming in a 15ips version

Correct. Mine has a low/high tape speed button for both 7.5 and 15 ips.


Poly
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:53:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 1 Apr 2005 15:39:08 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Henry Salvia <hjs@cadence.com> wrote:
>>

>
>AAAGH! I'm STILL trying to forget that horror. Please don't mention
>it any more.
>
>I do, incidentally, still have parts for the Roberts/Akai machines here.
>Not that they are worth repairing, but I have parts anyway.
>--scott
You got relay for 400D-ss ? I buggered up the one for forward/reverse
play audio trying to clean it. I currently have a kluge wired in
because I could not locate a replacement.
Akai P/N MY4-O-US-AD4-24V
Relay P/N TECK-36 (1000 ohm (24VDC) DPDT )


, _
, | \ MKA: Steve Urbach
, | )erek No JUNK in my email please
, ____|_/ragonsclaw dragonsclawJUNK@JUNKmindspring.com
, / / / Running United Devices "Cure For Cancer" Project 24/7 Have you helped? http://www.grid.org
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:59:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sure.

TEAC 3340
Sony 854-4
Crown SX744, CX844

You didn't usually find them at J.C. Penney, or whatever the
equivalent was then of WalMart or Best Buy, so if that
defines "consumer" then I guess these won't fit. There
wasn't/isn't anything esoteric/audiophile about any of these
machines. A couple of extra meters and knobs was about as
daunting as the user interface got. The 854 and Crowns were
pretty nice machines for their day.

There are probably quite a few more. These are just the ones
I either had or used.



TM

Adam Kendall wrote:
>
>
> In the 70's, were there consumer stereo open-reel machines (i.e., total of 4
> tracks) running at 15ips?
>
> If so, were they standard enough that average people used them, or were they
> more esoteric, like just for audiophiles?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:03:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Oh no ... not you, too.

Those were the days...


TM

Steve King wrote:
>
>
>In the early 70s I did a ton of what we would today call
> sound design for multi-media shows, shows using multiple Kodak Ektographic
> slide projectors.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:48:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 1 Apr 2005 15:39:08 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>I do, incidentally, still have parts for the Roberts/Akai machines here.
>Not that they are worth repairing, but I have parts anyway.

I have some Sony heads and some other parts, and some Revox and
Tandberg parts, if anyone cares. The late Tandbergs were very
nice machines for the consumer world. No, don't have TD-20
capstan motors, sorry.

Chris Hornbeck
6x9=42
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:48:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote:
>On 1 Apr 2005 15:39:08 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>>I do, incidentally, still have parts for the Roberts/Akai machines here.
>>Not that they are worth repairing, but I have parts anyway.
>
>I have some Sony heads and some other parts, and some Revox and
>Tandberg parts, if anyone cares. The late Tandbergs were very
>nice machines for the consumer world. No, don't have TD-20
>capstan motors, sorry.

Does ANYONE out there by any chance have parts for the Papst OEM cassette
machine mechanisms? They were used in a lot of European cassette decks
as well as in some duplicators, and I have a bunch of them in the closet
all with shredded motor brushes.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:56:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 2jovb$mru$1@panix2.panix.com...
>
> No, average people wanted more running time and cheaper tape costs.
That's
> the whole reason for the godawful quarter-track standard in the first
place.
>
> You will very seldom see quarter-track 15 ips machines, although there
were
> a few made.


#&# ! I think I mess up, I'm using Emtec Sm468 1/4 inch should I have
things set at (using Nagra) 7.5 or 15 and at STD or LN ?

I use it the first time Sunday "live" in a huge church, I had it set on
7.5 LN , did I goof?

Someone said a while ago unless I was editing, I could just use 7.5.

Thank you , I would just like to learn how to use things right.


--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 4:24:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I asked to help keep me and a client from wasting each other's time with a
tape transfer -- Thanks for the info, everyone.

I was really into tape-loops in the late 70's/early 80's, and I was only
using consumer machines for them. The only ones I used were 7.5/3.75.

Onto a different subject...

If anyone has the speed-adjustment "sleeve" and "cap" for the Akai 4000D
capstan for sale, let me know.

Adam
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 4:53:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Edward Bridge" <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:ucl3e.12789$S46.760@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> #&# ! I think I mess up, I'm using Emtec Sm468 1/4 inch should I
> have things set at (using Nagra) 7.5 or 15 and at STD or LN ?
>
> I use it the first time Sunday "live" in a huge church, I had it set
> on 7.5 LN , did I goof?

You set it such that it creates the least hiss while still leaving your
high end signal intact. Use your ears.
!