Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

1/2" 8track and track assignments.suggestions?

Last response: in Home Audio
Share
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:27:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,
I just was looking for some tips/advice on tracking with an 8 track.
Specifically the bounces. It is my band we are just demoing before we
go into a real studio(I said it and I mean it, no false illusions here
ha!). The band is a pretty standard set up 2 gtrs, bass and drums, vocs
and bck vox. But the reason for the demoing is to get our overdubs down
and kinda experiment with sounds to see where we can take the songs
before we go into a place. I'm tracking the band live and then taking
it from there.
I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce somewhere
else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it. ie.
kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:21:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for all the suggestions. They are all really helpful. I will get
those drums down to one as it happens. For the record it is symetrix
sx202's to tsr8 out to a mackie cr1604 monitored on ev sentry 100a's
..So I'm being realistic when I say-it is what it is.But I'm slowly
learning what makes this equipment react better and why .. The
experimenting is in the textures. Like adding an organ or working out
harmonies with the lead vocal and some will work some won't . if I can
free up 4tracks for those sort of things I should be fine.
Thanks again,
Brian
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Trevor de Clercq <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote:
> >Perhaps, therefore:
> >
> >Track 2: Bass
> >Tracks 3-4: Drums
> >Tracks 5-6: Gtrs
> >Track 7: Vox/Bg Vox
> >
> >Giving you 2 edge tracks for overdubs. Add or subtract to taste. I

> >actually worked with mono drums for a long time when I had a 1/2"
> >8-track and it wasn't that bad: one mic in the right place....
>
> Use one of the edge tracks for bass. Background vocals can also
probably
> stand being on an edge track.
>
> I'd keep main vocals separate because it gives you the opportunity to
put
> effects on the vocals and to do some limited punching in and out to
fix
> the vocals.
>
> For the most part, if the vocals sound really good, the rest of the
tracks
> can sound awful and you can get away with it.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:50:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote:
>I just was looking for some tips/advice on tracking with an 8 track.
>Specifically the bounces. It is my band we are just demoing before we
>go into a real studio(I said it and I mean it, no false illusions here
>ha!). The band is a pretty standard set up 2 gtrs, bass and drums, vocs
>and bck vox. But the reason for the demoing is to get our overdubs down
>and kinda experiment with sounds to see where we can take the songs
>before we go into a place. I'm tracking the band live and then taking
>it from there.

Well, plan your tracks out to give you as much freedom as possible
for adding more tracks. And try to be as sparing as possible. Use one
track for a drum submix. If you're intending on doing a lot of layers
on top of the first pass, put all the guitar and bass feeds on one track,
vocals on one track, backing vocals on a fourth track.

If you split an instrument out to its own track, it gives you more freedom
to fix things with punching in and out. BUT it uses up a track that you
may later on want for another layer.

Avoid bouncing as much as you can... and the way to do that is to keep as
many tracks free as long as possible.

>I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
>engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
>work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
>snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce somewhere
>else.

I would not do ANY bouncing until I had to. I'd do submixes as much
as possible on the first go-around, and then I'd start bouncing later
on only when I started running short on tracks. Bouncing is to be avoided
as much as possible.

>Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
>going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
>the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it. ie.
>kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
>some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
>appreciated.

Do the drums in mono and put them all on one track, unless you expect you
are going to have to be cutting and pasting and doing a lot of punching to
fix the drum tracks.

Stereo drums are nice and can add some depth to it, but there you just lost
another track.

If you have 24 tracks to work with, by all means record all the drum mikes.
If you have eight, something has to give somewhere and drums are a good place
to start.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Related resources
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 6:18:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The noise is going to add up really fast on a 1/2" 8-track, so I'd avoid
doing bounces as much as possible. In other words, if you want to have
4-mics on the drums, then bus/mix the mics down to two tracks on the
initial recording for stereo instead of recording on 4-tracks and then
bouncing to 2-tracks later.

Perhaps, therefore:

Track 2: Bass
Tracks 3-4: Drums
Tracks 5-6: Gtrs
Track 7: Vox/Bg Vox

Giving you 2 edge tracks for overdubs. Add or subtract to taste. I
actually worked with mono drums for a long time when I had a 1/2"
8-track and it wasn't that bad: one mic in the right place....

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq


strazymusic@netscape.net wrote:
> Hello,
> I just was looking for some tips/advice on tracking with an 8 track.
> Specifically the bounces. It is my band we are just demoing before we
> go into a real studio(I said it and I mean it, no false illusions here
> ha!). The band is a pretty standard set up 2 gtrs, bass and drums, vocs
> and bck vox. But the reason for the demoing is to get our overdubs down
> and kinda experiment with sounds to see where we can take the songs
> before we go into a place. I'm tracking the band live and then taking
> it from there.
> I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
> engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
> work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce somewhere
> else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
> going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
> the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it. ie.
> kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
> some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 6:25:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"When you mix down, try taking the output of the TSR-8 into the inserts

of the Mackie and bypassing the mike preamp sections on the Mackie."

are you talking about the line in's for the individual tracks on the
mackie or the "first click" on the direct out groups. I would LOVE to
bypass the preamp sections on the mackie .
"Four tracks is a lot of tracks. Would you settle for two?"
yes I'm sorry I meant 4(possibly 5) for instruments only, basic live
band tracks. I wasn't including the vocals in that number.
brian
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> <strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote:
> >Thanks for all the suggestions. They are all really helpful. I will
get
> >those drums down to one as it happens. For the record it is symetrix
> >sx202's to tsr8 out to a mackie cr1604 monitored on ev sentry 100a's
> >.So I'm being realistic when I say-it is what it is.
>
> You may need to use the 1604 for recording as well, in order to make
> the submixes.
>
> When you mix down, try taking the output of the TSR-8 into the
inserts
> of the Mackie and bypassing the mike preamp sections on the Mackie.
>
> >But I'm slowly
> >learning what makes this equipment react better and why .. The
> >experimenting is in the textures. Like adding an organ or working
out
> >harmonies with the lead vocal and some will work some won't . if I
can
> >free up 4tracks for those sort of things I should be fine.
>
> Four tracks is a lot of tracks. Would you settle for two?
> --scott
>
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:46:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Trevor de Clercq <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote:
>Perhaps, therefore:
>
>Track 2: Bass
>Tracks 3-4: Drums
>Tracks 5-6: Gtrs
>Track 7: Vox/Bg Vox
>
>Giving you 2 edge tracks for overdubs. Add or subtract to taste. I
>actually worked with mono drums for a long time when I had a 1/2"
>8-track and it wasn't that bad: one mic in the right place....

Use one of the edge tracks for bass. Background vocals can also probably
stand being on an edge track.

I'd keep main vocals separate because it gives you the opportunity to put
effects on the vocals and to do some limited punching in and out to fix
the vocals.

For the most part, if the vocals sound really good, the rest of the tracks
can sound awful and you can get away with it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:11:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote:
>Thanks for all the suggestions. They are all really helpful. I will get
>those drums down to one as it happens. For the record it is symetrix
>sx202's to tsr8 out to a mackie cr1604 monitored on ev sentry 100a's
>.So I'm being realistic when I say-it is what it is.

You may need to use the 1604 for recording as well, in order to make
the submixes.

When you mix down, try taking the output of the TSR-8 into the inserts
of the Mackie and bypassing the mike preamp sections on the Mackie.

>But I'm slowly
>learning what makes this equipment react better and why .. The
>experimenting is in the textures. Like adding an organ or working out
>harmonies with the lead vocal and some will work some won't . if I can
>free up 4tracks for those sort of things I should be fine.

Four tracks is a lot of tracks. Would you settle for two?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:43:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote:
>"When you mix down, try taking the output of the TSR-8 into the inserts
>
>of the Mackie and bypassing the mike preamp sections on the Mackie."
>
>are you talking about the line in's for the individual tracks on the
>mackie or the "first click" on the direct out groups. I would LOVE to
>bypass the preamp sections on the mackie .

No, neither one. Put them ALL the way in on the inserts, not just one
click in. This feeds the output of the tape machine directly into the
EQ stage, bypassing the preamp. The downside is you don't have any channel
trim without the preamp so you need to rough the levels in well.

It is the _opposite_ of the trick of using a single-click on the insert
in order to get the output of the preamps and bypass the rest of the
console.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 11:41:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

strazymusic@netscape.net wrote:
> Hello,
> I just was looking for some tips/advice on tracking with an 8 track.
> Specifically the bounces. It is my band we are just demoing before we
> go into a real studio(I said it and I mean it, no false illusions here
> ha!). The band is a pretty standard set up 2 gtrs, bass and drums, vocs
> and bck vox. But the reason for the demoing is to get our overdubs down
> and kinda experiment with sounds to see where we can take the songs
> before we go into a place. I'm tracking the band live and then taking
> it from there.
> I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
> engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
> work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce somewhere
> else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
> going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
> the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it. ie.
> kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
> some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Brian
>

Back when I was using an Otari 8-track, our standard
deal was to mix all the drums to one track except the
snare which we put on a second track. The theory being
that you could slightly alter the kick/cymbal
relationship with hi/low EQ and mix in as much snare and
snare reverb as you wanted later. I think that would
work well for what you described.

But.... why not just mix all the drums to one track
right off the bat? It's just a demo. That way you have
more tracks to experiment which is the whole reason for
the demo in the first place. Don't get so hung up on
the drum sound. I'll bet you end up liking the mono
drums anyway.

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ

jn145_deletethisfirst_@verizon.net

http://www.retromedia.net
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:30:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4/1/05 1:27 PM, in article
1112380077.541297.152230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,
"strazymusic@netscape.net" <strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> I just was looking for some tips/advice on tracking with an 8 track.
> Specifically the bounces. It is my band we are just demoing before we
> go into a real studio... how would the more experienced
> engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
> work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> snare, and then bounce it down to one?

Nope. I'd get a mix of whatever mics you like on the drums and just track
them as ONE finished track.
It's a DEMO.

> or would you bounce somewhere
> else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
> going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
> the sounds and learning.

Get a good rough drum mix in mono.. Best thing you could learn to do...
Perfect job to do it on!
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:40:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1112394327.275210.259690@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> strazymusic@netscape.net writes:

> "When you mix down, try taking the output of the TSR-8 into the inserts
> of the Mackie and bypassing the mike preamp sections on the Mackie."

> are you talking about the line in's for the individual tracks on the
> mackie or the "first click" on the direct out groups.

The "first click" trick works for recording (outputs), but in order
to avoid hanging the ouptut of the preamp on to the output of the
recorder as a load, you need TRS plugs that you can inset fully, with
the RING connected to the recorder outputs.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:40:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <d2kird$mqj$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> No, neither one. Put them ALL the way in on the inserts, not just one
> click in. This feeds the output of the tape machine directly into the
> EQ stage, bypassing the preamp.

Mackie insert jacks are wired with the send on the tip and the return
on the ring. Plugging a TS plug in all the way will connect the
recorder output to the preamp output. Not the desired result.

> It is the _opposite_ of the trick of using a single-click on the insert
> in order to get the output of the preamps and bypass the rest of the
> console.

Actually, you can put the plug all the way in to get the preamp output
to the recorder. The reason why you put it in halfway is that this
doesn't break the normalled connection between send and return at the
jack. You can tap the preamp output without breaking the signal path
through the jack, allowing you to hear what's going in

Of course you can wire the tape deck as if it was an "insert device"
with the tip going to the recorder input and the recorder output going
to the ring of an "insert" plug. That way, what goes to (when
recording) or comes from (on playback) the recorder is what you
mix for monitoring while tracking, and later on for mixdown. That's
the way it should be. Use the recorder's auto monitor switching to
make it all work.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:37:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

no one has mentioned this yet, so I will. Something I did all the time
when I had just an 8 track.
How about doing a reduction mix?
What you do is this. Your first set of stuff on the 8 track will only
be rythmn tracks, so you can use 4 or 5 tracks of drums if need be. An
example:
1 Kick
2 snare
3 Left overhead
4 Right overhead
5 Rythmn guitar 1
6 rythmn guitar 2
7 keyboard
8 bass

mix this down to a dat player, computer, whatever...

take this stereo mix ,send it back to the 8 track. You now have 6 more
tracks for lead vocs, lead guitars, background vocs , percussion ,
whatever.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:41:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

BTW-it is important you only do rythmn tracks on the first mix, no lead
anything. You'll have control over that in the second mix. Concentrate
on getting a good bed mix for everything.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:05:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

blckout wrote:


>no one has mentioned this yet, so I will. Something I did all the time

>when I had just an 8 track.
>How about doing a reduction mix?
>What you do is this. Your first set of stuff on the 8 track will only
>be rythmn tracks, so you can use 4 or 5 tracks of drums if need be. An

>example:
>1 Kick
>2 snare
>3 Left overhead
>4 Right overhead
>5 Rythmn guitar 1
>6 rythmn guitar 2
>7 keyboard
>8 bass
>
>mix this down to a dat player, computer, whatever...
>
>take this stereo mix ,send it back to the 8 track. You now have 6 more

>tracks for lead vocs, lead guitars, background vocs , percussion ,
>whatever.


I used this approach for two songs in 1991; it resulted in two separate
master 8-track reel-to-reels. Twelve years later I synced both tapes
into the computer. That was a kick.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:11:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

As Scott said, don't think about bouncing, but rather routing. He gave good
examples. Drums all to one track, vocals all to one track, etc. If you're
recording live, you really need to concentrate on how you play as a band,
not try to learn the recording process since you'll be paying professionals
to do that type of worrying for you. If you don't have a mixer that has
group bussing then default to the auxes and take their output to a track.
If you have four busses or four available auxillary sends you can get your
band tracked. Won't be production quality, but you are in pre-production
planning, so don't worry about the recording and watch the ball all the way
to the bat.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
<strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1112380077.541297.152230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
> I just was looking for some tips/advice on tracking with an 8 track.
> Specifically the bounces. It is my band we are just demoing before we
> go into a real studio(I said it and I mean it, no false illusions here
> ha!). The band is a pretty standard set up 2 gtrs, bass and drums, vocs
> and bck vox. But the reason for the demoing is to get our overdubs down
> and kinda experiment with sounds to see where we can take the songs
> before we go into a place. I'm tracking the band live and then taking
> it from there.
> I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
> engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
> work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce somewhere
> else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
> going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
> the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it. ie.
> kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
> some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 3:01:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

blckout wrote:


>no one has mentioned this yet, so I will. Something I did all the time

>when I had just an 8 track.
>How about doing a reduction mix?
>What you do is this. Your first set of stuff on the 8 track will only
>be rythmn tracks, so you can use 4 or 5 tracks of drums if need be. An

>example:
>1 Kick
>2 snare
>3 Left overhead
>4 Right overhead
>5 Rythmn guitar 1
>6 rythmn guitar 2
>7 keyboard
>8 bass
>
>mix this down to a dat player, computer, whatever...
>
>take this stereo mix ,send it back to the 8 track. You now have 6 more

>tracks for lead vocs, lead guitars, background vocs , percussion ,
>whatever.


I used this approach for two songs in 1991; it resulted in two separate
master 8-track reel-to-reels. Twelve years later I synced both tapes
into the computer. That was a kick.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 11:05:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1112380077.541297.152230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
> engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks to
> work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce somewhere
> else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I am
> going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening to
> the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it. ie.
> kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
> some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
> appreciated.

Given that none of the tracks is expected to ever see release, I would do
the drums with a single overhead and a mic on the kick, no more. I'd
probably mix that down to a single track, during the initial live tracks. Or
I'd do two overheads and kick, mixing down during live tracking to two
tracks.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 6:26:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for all the tips. I tracked it and it came out fine and usable.
Just used a mxl603 as a single overhead and a d112 in the kick through
the Mackie pre's(I can visualize half of you cringing right now. The
overhead has a bit of a sizzle in it and a boom from the bass guitar
but I think I think I can cut that somewhere on the eq80khz(?). 57on
one guitar cab, and an EV desktob mic on the other(which is a mic I
love has the "on-off" bar but is an omni I believe sounds like a 635a
to me and a 421 on the bass cab. I got the drums balanced and down to
one track and it all worked fine.It's workable and serves it purpose I
suppose. haven't mixed yet looking foward to bypassing the preamps on
the mackie. the trims are useless with the tsr8 and the -10 into +4, I
can't open them up without it running way too hot. Again thanks for the
tips this group is and invaluable resource. One more thing recording
your own band is a real pain in the ass. me- "hey can you hit your kick
drum". Drummer-"sure" boom-boom. then that's it!! that's all I get 2
hits!! great. Let me work with that. ha!
brian
Paul Stamler wrote:
> <strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1112380077.541297.152230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
> > engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some tracks
to
> > work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> > snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce
somewhere
> > else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but I
am
> > going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm listening
to
> > the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach it.
ie.
> > kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free up
> > some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
> > appreciated.
>
> Given that none of the tracks is expected to ever see release, I
would do
> the drums with a single overhead and a mic on the kick, no more. I'd
> probably mix that down to a single track, during the initial live
tracks. Or
> I'd do two overheads and kick, mixing down during live tracking to
two
> tracks.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 6:37:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

* That would be a desktop mic not a desktob mic.
strazymu...@netscape.net wrote:
> Thanks for all the tips. I tracked it and it came out fine and
usable.
> Just used a mxl603 as a single overhead and a d112 in the kick
through
> the Mackie pre's(I can visualize half of you cringing right now. The
> overhead has a bit of a sizzle in it and a boom from the bass guitar
> but I think I think I can cut that somewhere on the eq80khz(?). 57on
> one guitar cab, and an EV desktob mic on the other(which is a mic I
> love has the "on-off" bar but is an omni I believe sounds like a 635a
> to me and a 421 on the bass cab. I got the drums balanced and down to
> one track and it all worked fine.It's workable and serves it purpose
I
> suppose. haven't mixed yet looking foward to bypassing the preamps on
> the mackie. the trims are useless with the tsr8 and the -10 into +4,
I
> can't open them up without it running way too hot. Again thanks for
the
> tips this group is and invaluable resource. One more thing recording
> your own band is a real pain in the ass. me- "hey can you hit your
kick
> drum". Drummer-"sure" boom-boom. then that's it!! that's all I get 2
> hits!! great. Let me work with that. ha!
> brian
> Paul Stamler wrote:
> > <strazymusic@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:1112380077.541297.152230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > I am just asking the question of how would the more experienced
> > > engineers go about tracking a band and still freeing up some
tracks
> to
> > > work with. Would you track the drums with 4 mics, kick 2ovhds and
> > > snare, and then bounce it down to one? or would you bounce
> somewhere
> > > else. Track assignments and submixes. I know it's just a demo but
I
> am
> > > going for the best I can do with my limited abilities I'm
listening
> to
> > > the sounds and learning. Just wondering how some would approach
it.
> ie.
> > > kick-1, oh 2+3, snare-4, gtr-5, and how you would submix to free
up
> > > some room and keep it in tact.etc. etc. any help is greatly
> > > appreciated.
> >
> > Given that none of the tracks is expected to ever see release, I
> would do
> > the drums with a single overhead and a mic on the kick, no more.
I'd
> > probably mix that down to a single track, during the initial live
> tracks. Or
> > I'd do two overheads and kick, mixing down during live tracking to
> two
> > tracks.
> >
> > Peace,
> > Paul
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 5:57:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> no one has mentioned this yet, so I will. Something I did all the time
> when I had just an 8 track.
> How about doing a reduction mix?
> What you do is this. Your first set of stuff on the 8 track will only
> be rythmn tracks, so you can use 4 or 5 tracks of drums if need be.

Gee, and what did you think Mike and Scott and I were talking about? I
don't know what a "reduction" mix is, but I can guess that it's applying
routing from 4 or 5 channel strips to one track of recording. Does that
fit?

I think it's time to re-address terminology so that everyone is on the same
page when talking about functions, particularly with the lurkers whom may
not be so inclinded to understand different terminologies, some of which
appear to come from cooking school.

An input equals a connection to a device, sometimes a DI but usually a mic
pre, oft times to an entire channel strip on a mixing console or standalone
mic pre, which then gives us the opportunity to take a insert (out on the
ring, in on the sleeve of a TRS 1/4" plug) to run through an outboard
specific to it's connection (reverb, compressor, etc), back into the channel
strip, through the EQ, on to auxiliary busses and then to the routing post
the input fader. The little round pot at the input is usually considered
the input trim or mic pre gain.

Each channel comes DOWN the channel strip, and each bus on a channel strip
runs ACROSS to bussing, post EQ, like aux sends or routing busses to groups
or returns. Each of these busses has an cumlative effort on the bus, adding
whatever level input up to the total signal the bus is able to handle. This
includes aux and routing busses. These busses are finalized in the master
section where all group sends end up, thus allowing one to bring up
individual mixes on busses that either can have an affect on the L/R bus,
depending on what one chooses, or be totally outside of the L/R bus. In
turn, each of these busses can usually be addressed as outputs that can then
be moved onto recording devices for such functions as routing multiple
inputs to one outputted recording track.

There's also a direct out or tape out/tape in on inline consoles, whereas
the tape out would be directed back to separate input channels on a split
console.

Did I miss anything?

My reductions are basically wine and bechamal, however, it could include a
nice beef or veal reduction, called demiglace.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
<blckout420@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112420238.678312.324680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
An
> example:
> 1 Kick
> 2 snare
> 3 Left overhead
> 4 Right overhead
> 5 Rythmn guitar 1
> 6 rythmn guitar 2
> 7 keyboard
> 8 bass
>
> mix this down to a dat player, computer, whatever...
>
> take this stereo mix ,send it back to the 8 track. You now have 6 more
> tracks for lead vocs, lead guitars, background vocs , percussion ,
> whatever.
>
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 9:03:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:o ZOdnTEDubdxTc_fRVn-ig@rcn.net...
> > no one has mentioned this yet, so I will. Something I did all the time
> > when I had just an 8 track.
> > How about doing a reduction mix?
> > What you do is this. Your first set of stuff on the 8 track will only
> > be rythmn tracks, so you can use 4 or 5 tracks of drums if need be.
>
> Gee, and what did you think Mike and Scott and I were talking about? I
> don't know what a "reduction" mix is, but I can guess that it's applying
> routing from 4 or 5 channel strips to one track of recording. Does that
> fit?

Nope. Back in the sixties, a reduction mix meant taking the four tracks
you'd recorded on 4-track machine A and mixing them down to a single track
on 4-track machine B, leaving you three fresh tracks. See "The Beatles'
Recording Sessions" -- everything they did after the first few albums, up
until they got 8-track partway through the "White Album" sessions, was done
with a succession of reduction mixes. Essentially track bouncing, but done
to an external machine.

Peace,
Paul
!