Demand for even higher sampling rates

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A recent poll conducted to determine why many have refused to embrace
digital recording, it was revealed that most respondents think that even the
current state of art digital converters are incapable of accurately
capturing all available audible information.

While all respondents agreed that the debate people are currently having on
the validity of 192kHz sampling rates is ridiculous and that anything less
than a 384kHz sampling rate is unacceptable, the respondents were sharply
divided when it came to even higher sampling rates. 52% felt that 384kHz was
sufficient, 37% felt that 768kHz would be significantly better and 11% felt
that 1.536MHz ( or higher ) would be required to capture everything audible
with perfect accuracy.

While such technology currently doesn't exist, or at least is extremely
difficult and/or expensive to obtain, many feel that consumer and marketing
demands will turn this around in the next few years.

( above information reflects data obtained on 04/01/2005 from 100 randomly
selected porpoises and beluga whales )
Reference

--
John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It is well known that precisely 52,439 opinions add up to a fact. If
the required critical mass of opinion cannot be marshaled, then all
those opinions--no matter how sincere and well-meaning--remain merely
subjective points of view.

A further problem arises when the issue is the issue is that of
doubling the sampling rate for digital audio. A mere 51% agreement
among audiophiles no longer suffices to create an objective fact in
such a case--the degree of consensus also needs to be twice as great,
and for quadrupling the sampling rate, four times.

Without special legislation by Congress to declare that a binary bit
shall henceforth have four potential states rather than only two, I
fear that it could take years to reach so strong a level of agreement.

--best regards

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John L Rice wrote:
> A recent poll conducted to determine why many have refused to embrace

> digital recording, it was revealed that most respondents think that
even the
> current state of art digital converters are incapable of accurately
> capturing all available audible information.
>
> While all respondents agreed that the debate people are currently
having on
> the validity of 192kHz sampling rates is ridiculous and that anything
less
> than a 384kHz sampling rate is unacceptable, the respondents were
sharply
> divided when it came to even higher sampling rates. 52% felt that
384kHz was
> sufficient, 37% felt that 768kHz would be significantly better and
11% felt
> that 1.536MHz ( or higher ) would be required to capture everything
audible
> with perfect accuracy.
>
> While such technology currently doesn't exist, or at least is
extremely
> difficult and/or expensive to obtain, many feel that consumer and
marketing
> demands will turn this around in the next few years.
>
> ( above information reflects data obtained on 04/01/2005 from 100
randomly
> selected porpoises and beluga whales )
> Reference

Good joke, but I think it's more a question of what is possible and
available in terms of technology than anything else. With processors
100 times faster than what we have now, technology under utilized at
lower sample rates, with old chips no longer available, sure, I bet
even 192k will be left behind eventually.

I think today's digital consoles will be as obsolete as a MACII/ci
in 10 years, and any facility or Systems Engineer who thinks that they
are saving money by buying a digital console today are going to find
out their digital desks are worth as much as one of those is, certainly
much less than a good Pro analog desk will be in 10 years.

Of course I could be wrong... <g>

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

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On 4/1/05 1:50 PM, in article 114r63dq2nm6e8d@corp.supernews.com, "John L
Rice" <Drummer@ImJohn.com> wrote:

> While all respondents agreed that the debate people are currently having on
> the validity of 192kHz sampling rates is ridiculous and that anything less
> than a 384kHz sampling rate is unacceptable, the respondents were sharply
> divided when it came to even higher sampling rates. 52% felt that 384kHz was
> sufficient, 37% felt that 768kHz would be significantly better and 11% felt
> that 1.536MHz ( or higher ) would be required to capture everything audible
> with perfect accuracy.

It's also well documented that film rates of 60frames/sec are optimal for
convincing our eyes and brain that there's real movement in fornt of us but
NOBODY really bought into SHOWSCAN outside of the serious simulator-ride
amusement park industry and I don;t see anyone arguing that your local FEAR
FACTOR or AMERICAN IDOL need to have everyone invest in a newly-expanded
60fps tv system to enjoy them.

You;re off the endge of practicality here, interesting as it might be to
true tweak folks.

44/16 is dandy for nearly anything listened to on 99% of the repro systems
out there from iriver-armbands thru home theater systems. Coupled with the
wuality limits of most material in the FIRST place, it's a pretty wild
dream.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4/1/05 2:15 PM, in article d5h3e.463$k66.167@trnddc03, "David Morgan
(MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
> "John L Rice" <Drummer@ImJohn.com> wrote in message
> news:114r63dq2nm6e8d@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> ( above information reflects data obtained on

I HAVe to respond to this sort of audiophilic drabble. The following is long
but VITAl to ANYONE's understanding of the issue. I could say it no better
so I quote:

----------------------------
This is the first 100% virgin wool wide-belt driven transport mechanism in
production. The belt weft induces a trans-harmonic signature which is 180
degrees out of phase with the fundamental 44.1 kHz sampling rate, which
reduces jitter to that of, say, a sleeping Jabba the Hut. As an added bonus,
the wool-lined tray keeps the CD warm during play, greatly reducing stray
magnetic gauss field effects.
--------------------------------


You need to check here for the real poop on this sort of hi-end study...
(DO scroll down to the comments sections)

http://www.audioreview.com/CD+Play [...] 86crx.aspx

http://www.audioreview.com/TurnTab [...] 97crx.aspx


http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/lirpa.html

And

http://www.bstock.com/Lirpa1.htm
(it's thermally self approximating!)

IN LONG CONCLUSION I Quote yet again:

---------------------------------------
50 reviews

Description :
Steam-powered turntable with fire-tube boiler

Review Date January 2, 2003

Overall Rating  4 of 5

Value Rating  4 of 5

Used product for Less than 1 month

Rate this review?  4.64 out of 5

Reviewed by:  redrag,  AudioPhile , from Rochester, NY USA

Price Paid:  $27.00 at Felloffatruck

Product Model Year: Pre 1995

Summary:
In a word, this is one piece of machinery that can only add size to the most
advanced monaural sound system.

I had used the Lirpa April 47 eight-track for years, never realizing their
technology preceded the classic tape industry. (As a side note, I always
thought the April 47 model was the 47th design but it actually honors Dr.
Lirpa¹s 47th daughter. But I digress.) I was suspicious of steam technology,
but was pleasantly surprised at its multi-tasking capabilities, especially
the pastrami slicing. Lirpa¹s approach of nuclear powering the direct drive
was a surprise eliminating my fears of putting the kettle on boil to get it
started.

I¹m told Lirpa Labs makes only one steam turntable every year, each one
different. Well I wish they¹d tried to down size it as mine weighs in at a
hefty 29,921 lbs. Living in Rochester, NY I had to transport it from
Tampoon¹s Antique shop and 7-Eleven in Del Ray Beach, CA. I contacted an old
Air Force buddy who arranged for the C5A. The big problem, once I got it to
Buffalo¹s airport, was transporting it down the thruway to Rochester (our
airport flies only east to west.) George Pataki offered the National Guard
to dismantle 17 HUMVEES and reconstruct them into a single transport that
straddled the divider with 32 right wheels in the eastbound lane and the
other 32 in the west lanes. The remaining four wheels were added to the rear
on wheelie bars in case we over accelerated. Naturally, the Governor helped
close the thruway for the nine day trip. It would have been quicker had we
not had to dismantle the bridges and remove the final toll booth station.
Overall, the trip was, how shall I say itŠ uneventful.

I apologize for digressing again. Getting it on to the house was easy. I
only had to add one I-beam to our two-story colonial (now a ranch I might
add.) Wiring took a bit of creativity by running a direct line from the
Ginna nuclear plant to jump start it so the single steam cylinder could kick
in.

I have experienced one negative. Big Dave¹s comment, ³the ants... always the
ants!² Well, I can put up with them. Actually, I¹m tired of not being able
to turn it off as there¹s an incessant vibration throughout our whole house.
It has put a constant smile on my wife¹s face but we¹re tired of feeding our
dachshunds all this freakin¹ pastrami. You can¹t imagine the weight they¹ve
gained.

But I digress again. An unexpected benefit is its well oiled teakwood base
that nicely compliments the tan siding and what¹s left of the brown
shingles. In research, I have learned that the 40 year old grove of teak
trees was just ripe for harvesting.

A word of warning to those considering a LirpaŠ the stylus wear may surprise
you. Unlike the standard diamond styli used by more well known manufacturers
such as the British firm Moorcock and Cordwainer, LTD, the Lirpa steamtable
requires the more costly German Phelge, Boisbaudran und Unterdachel
component. The sound reproduction is well worth the extra money although
replacing the 7 foot stylus after one full revolution can be a bit pricey.
I¹d recommend buying them in bulk direct from Phelge, et al. Then you have
one more reason to build that hanger in the yard for extra storage.

In closing, I can¹t say enough for this critical piece of mass that
completes my sound system. With my Lirpa eight track, the Pilkney Windtunnel
stackable 63² speakers, powered by my Arthgardner and Swelkin mini receiver,
I can proudly says I have the loudest system on the block. To pick one
descriptive word is impossible but if I must choose one, it would be, ³Well
done Dr. Lirpa and your fine engineers as well as congratulations on your
47th daughter. All of you have contributed to a monumental step in adding
size to the reproduction of all recorded music but also in adding to the
bulk of equipment on the market. As your logo says, ³If it¹s a Lirpa
steamtable, you can use it.²

Strengths:
Re-sale value, deductibilty value, better than nothing

Weaknesses:
Price per pound, environmentally hazardous, limited color selection, faulty
steam safety valve, overheating,

Similar Products Used:
Popeil Pocket Pasta Maker, Earnhardt air bags, Pilkney Windtunnel speakers
--------------------------------------

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news5h3e.463$k66.167@trnddc03...
>
> "John L Rice" <Drummer@ImJohn.com> wrote in message
> news:114r63dq2nm6e8d@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> ( above information reflects data obtained on 04/01/2005 from 100
>> randomly
>> selected porpoises and beluga whales )
>
>
> Good one... you had me going for a minute.
>
> DM
>
>

Hehehe. I posted the same thing over on ProSoundWeb too. And I feel a little
bad that a couple people didn't catch on at all! ;-)

--
John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com