raid 0 from boot help

[dinkster9]

How do you setup a raid 0 array from boot without the use of another hard drive. In the FAQ it states that you can install the drivers via diskette when loading your operation system, but then it won't let you select your cluster size. The other option is to install windows without the raid and then reset it, did i understand that right? I got confused at about that point, any help would be appriciated system spects below:

2 identicle 160 gig wd se ata 100 drives (blank as of now)
raid 0 setup, card is something from silicon i think (can't remember).
I will be installing xp pro or 2000pro (most likely) but for whatever reason my 2000pro disk seems to only work if its used to upgrade from a previous system, so with this option i guess i would have to install 98se first. Although might this work to my advantage, because don't i need to install something first and then setup the cluster size, and then reinstall whatever anyway?. Boy this is confusing.

Any help would be appriciated, this is my first stab at raid and i'd like to get off to a good start.

~i'm not a "newbie" anymore, woot~


"sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick"
*grabs a stick and places it into the flames* mmmm, smores

 

[khha4113]

Go into your RAID controller's BIOS (after your computer start, it will start scanning for devices plugged into the controller). You can setup your RAID array and its cluster size. BTW, what is your mobo and is the RAID controller onboard or PCI card?

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[dinkster9]

My mb is the a7n8x dx v2.0 but my hard drives are ide, so i went with a 2 channel pci raid card. It was cheaper than getting the serial converters and from what i've ready those things don't work as well as they should.

"sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick"
*grabs a stick and places it into the flames* mmmm, smores

 

[khha4113]

You should have option to go into your RAID controller's BIOS when your comp passes POST (usually require you to press a combination of keys, eg. Ctrl+H in Highpoint's). The, you can setup your RAID array and its cluster size there. After you're done creating RAID array, you can install Operating system.
My comp is Abit NF7-S also comes with Serial ATA controller onboard, and I used Serillel SATA converters (I already had one that came with mobo and I bought another one for $30 at newegg.com) to make RAID-0 array (2 of IBM 120GXP 80GB) without problem (although it's relative new ~2 weeks).

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[dinkster9]

well, i was thinking that myself, but under raid faq 1.3 it stated that you had to install with the default 4kb size and then load windows, change your settings to 128kb and exit, then load your raid controller bios and reload windows? or something like that. That is where i got confused. If i can just set the cluster size in the raid setup (ctrl h) and install, i don't think I would come accross any problems.

"sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick"
*grabs a stick and places it into the flames* mmmm, smores

 

[unoc]

As first step You have to make a choice depending on what is the use of your computer (big file=video or small file=office application). Then boot the computer and pres CTRL + something (CTRL+F for Promise or CTRL+H for highpoint) at the RAID bios post. Enter the controller setting to build a new array. There you have to select RAID 0 or 1, cluster size (for big file big cluster such as 64 or 128 kB and for small file small cluster such as 8, 16 or 32 kB), select the drives to build the array and then save and exit. Reboot the computer using a floppy disk. Use fdisk to create a new partition (don't forget to activate it) as FAT32 and format it. Now you can install the OS on the RAID volume. You can create easily new partition on the RAID array also after the OS is installed.
You also can convert from fat32 to NTFS the boot partion when the installation started. You need a FAT32 partition at the beginning of installation because it needs a partition to copy the installation file and the system can copy the files only on a DOS based FAT32 partition.


...Ahhhh? , ok, ok ...I am turning off the computer.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by unoc on 05/04/03 10:31 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[elzt]

I think there is some misunderstanding here. Did you mean cluster size or strip size? They are totally two different things! The strip size of a RAID array can only be set in RAID BIOS while the cluster size of each partition can be set using Windows/DOS utility like fdisk. You should define the strip size first before you can set the cluster size. Just a reminder.

 

[unoc]

Just a lapse. We all refer to "stripe block" size.
Thanks for the correction.

...Ahhhh? , ok, ok ...I am turning off the computer.

 

[khha4113]

Did you mean cluster size or strip size? They are totally two different things!

Yes, thanks for correction. After creating RAID array, you can setup your <b><font color=red>stripe</b></font color=red> size in controller's BIOS (usually from 8K to 128K). The <b><font color=red>cluster</b></font color=red> size is created when you format (not <b>FDisk</b>) the HD. If you're formatting it with FAT32, cluster size can be different depends on the size of your HD (The bigger FAT volume is, the bigger cluster size meaning wasting more disk space). That's one of the disavantage of FAT compared to NTFS (although you can set the cluster size manually with the hidden syntax in <b>Format</b> command <b>/z:</b>).

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[dinkster9]

yes, i was referring to cluster size. But now that we are talking about strip size, how do i set it and what's a good number for a 160gig disk using ntfs (win2000pro)? My cluster size will be 128k (the largest possible?) because i'm going to be doing alot of video editing. THG said:

"6. I want to setup a level 0 RAID. Which stripe and clustersize should I use?
It depends on what the array is going to be used for. In general if the array is used for very large files (Video streaming etc.) a larger stripesize is better. For mainstream usage (office, gaming etc.) a stripe and clustersize in the 8-32 kB range is a common choice. To some extend the optimum stripe and clustersize combination also depends on the RAID controller and drives."

So now i'm a bit confused again. To verify, cluster size is the size of a written block of data on your hard drive right? meaning that if you have it set at 128k and you are saving a 5k word document, it will still write (take up) that whole 128k block on your hard drive. So what is strip size do and what's a good setting?

"sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick"
*grabs a stick and places it into the flames* mmmm, smores

 

[khha4113]

When RAID-0 is created, data is written across on both HDs (or 4 if it is created with 4 HDs). For example, if you had RAID-0 with 8Kb stripe size, the first 8Kb data would be written on 1st harddisk, then the next 8Kb on 2nd HD and so on. That's explaining why
>>In general if the array is used for very large files (Video streaming etc.) a larger stripesize is better.<<
since system would take less time to back and forth writing data on HDs therefore increase system's performance.

My cluster size will be 128k (the largest possible?)

It would be waste of disk space (also AFAIK, the biggest cluster size for NTFS is only 64K). I think you refer to <b><font color=red>stripe</b></font color=red> size not <b><font color=blue>cluster</b></font color=blue> size (smallest if possible, I suggest it should be 4K).

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[unoc]

The stripesize is the smallest block of data which will be written and read from each drive in the RAID array. Supposing you set the stripesize at 32k and you have two disks in the array and the system needs a 64 k file, the RAID 0 has its effectiveness because the controller reads from each drive a block equal to the stripesize (32 k) simultaneously.
Because you have two disks, the total amount is exactly the entire file of 64k in the time each disk take for deliver a 32k file. This means that the throughput of the disk array has been almost doubled with respect to a single disk drive.
If the file has a lenght of 32 k, only one drive is involved and the time the controller takes to read the file is quite the same as you were using only one drive in a IDE channel.
The cluster size is driven by the file system used and by the dimension of the partition. The cluster size only affects the amount of disk space used. The smaller is the cluster size the better is the disk space usage. The file system using NTFS has a cluster size that is generally not greater than 4kB and this is one of the advantages on the FAT32 file system which generally creates bigger cluster.
So the cluster size is only determined by the file system and by the dimension of the partition .
You can set manually the stripe size. Too small stripe size segments too much the files and slow down the transfer speed when big files are passed (video editing). Too big stripe size can overrule the advantages of the RAID 0 when small files are passed (office application, data base).
If you don't know what kind of files will be treated, leave it on default (generally 64 kB).

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