One or two Neumann km184

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have a sequential serial number pair of KM184s (they don't offer
matched pairs). I use a single KM184 for acoustic guitar tracks more
than 90% of the time. I have used the stereo set-up for certain things,
but not as much as I expected. But I mostly do overdubs, not solo
recordings.

It depends whether you want to record the guitar solo or as an
overdubbed track. If it's overdubbed with other instruments playing,
I'd definitely say start with one mic then grow.

But It sounds like you're doing solo classical guitar recording in which
case a stereo setup would probably be better in the long run. But one
mic *would* give good results. Mono has a very nice stability,
especially for a single instrument. I have some Dock Boggs banjo
recordings that were recorded in mono that sound audiophile quality. I
couldn't believe I was listening to mono or that mono could sound so full.

So I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you buy one
mic, you can always try it out and see if you like it. If you really
need a sequential pair down the road, you can sell the one and buy the
pair. Or just buy another mic. Neumanns these days are supposedly so
similarly matched that it doesn't make a huge difference mic to mic anyway.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

IS wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Neumann km184 to record my guitar playing.
> I was wandering if I should wait and get a matched pair or if it would still
> give good results just using one of them.
> Do people record guitars, classical, with only one mic and get a good
> sounding recording?
> I'm only interested in professional results and would happily wait for a
> couple of months to get two (matched) if that's the way to go.
>
> Thanks, and thanks for your advice on the wireless vs. wired mic earlier.
>
> IS
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You certainly don't need a matched pair of mics to make a nice
acoustic guitar recording.

Al

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:57:46 GMT, "IS" <y@hl.com> wrote:

>I'm thinking about getting a Neumann km184 to record my guitar playing.
>I was wandering if I should wait and get a matched pair or if it would still
>give good results just using one of them.
>Do people record guitars, classical, with only one mic and get a good
>sounding recording?
>I'm only interested in professional results and would happily wait for a
>couple of months to get two (matched) if that's the way to go.
>
>Thanks, and thanks for your advice on the wireless vs. wired mic earlier.
>
>IS
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What is perfect Pitch?

> It's not often that you see the word "banjo" and "audiophile" in the
> same sentence! (:^p
>
> Al

when you pitch the banjo in the fire. .hehe

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Not Quite, when you can throw a set of bagpipes in the toilet without
touching the rim.
"Edward Bridge" <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:xJl5e.5289$44.4246@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> What is perfect Pitch?
>
> > It's not often that you see the word "banjo" and "audiophile" in the
> > same sentence! (:^p
> >
> > Al
>
> when you pitch the banjo in the fire. .hehe
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've been very happy with the sound of a matched pair of km184s for
recording classical guitar. Check out this German shop for a really
good price:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_index [...] 74b54d65a3
Some engineers prefer omnis, but I guess that this will depend if you
are going to do the recording in a nice accoustic.
One studio I used recorded the guitar using a pair of earthworks small
diaphram omnis which gave a nice sound...
Regards,
David Caswell

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:57:46 -0400, IS wrote
(in article <e9h5e.2718$3z3.2670@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> ):

> I'm thinking about getting a Neumann km184 to record my guitar playing.
> I was wandering if I should wait and get a matched pair or if it would still
> give good results just using one of them.
> Do people record guitars, classical, with only one mic and get a good
> sounding recording?
> I'm only interested in professional results and would happily wait for a
> couple of months to get two (matched) if that's the way to go.
>
> Thanks, and thanks for your advice on the wireless vs. wired mic earlier.
>
> IS
>
>

The thing about classical guitarists and mics is, some don't like a bright
top end because it brings out the plasticky sound of the 1st string. As a
result, I find one Schoeps cmc641 does a better job.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS or find a KM 84 in good shape.

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"IS" <y@hl.com> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about getting a Neumann km184 to record my guitar
> playing. I was wandering if I should wait and get a matched pair or
> if it would still give good results just using one of them.



Stereo recordings of classical guitar can sound really good. So can
mono. Neither is better or worse, they're just different flavours for
different situations.

KM184s all sound so similar that I don't think you need to worry about
buying them in a pair. Buy one now and add another one later. We have
five (used to be six until dropped one) and any one of them pairs up
just fine with any other one.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

This is true for my personal opinion too.
Some classical guitar recordings sound almost like acoustic guitars, or at
least flamenco guitars.
I'm wandering if I cold roll off some of te high frequencies in post, if I
use the 184?
The Schoeps is even more than the 184 and I'm pushing my budget getting the
184.

Thanks

IS



>
> The thing about classical guitarists and mics is, some don't like a bright
> top end because it brings out the plasticky sound of the 1st string. As a
> result, I find one Schoeps cmc641 does a better job.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> PS or find a KM 84 in good shape.
>
> -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
> audiocentric
> stuff are at www.tyford.com
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I thought it was when you tossed an accordian into the dumpster and it
lands precisely on top of the banjo.

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:08:01 -0230, "Rick Hollett"
<r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote:

>Not Quite, when you can throw a set of bagpipes in the toilet without
>touching the rim.
>"Edward Bridge" <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:xJl5e.5289$44.4246@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> What is perfect Pitch?
>>
>> > It's not often that you see the word "banjo" and "audiophile" in the
>> > same sentence! (:^p
>> >
>> > Al
>>
>> when you pitch the banjo in the fire. .hehe
>>
>>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>Some classical guitar recordings sound almost like acoustic guitars,
or at
>least flamenco guitars.

IMO the KM184 is not too bright, and it will not give you a "plasticy"
sound. I think as it is it is just right. If you do the engineering
part of of your recording project well all the information will be
there for post processing for you to do as you please.

>I'm wandering if I cold roll off some of te high frequencies in post,
if I
>use the 184?

I would do a mono recording and then create a stereo recording by post
processing each of two mono tracks differently. I think the post
processing is what will make the recording jump out at you. This will
be the approach I will take with the Prelude to the Bach Cello Suite
#1. If the result is not too embarassing I'll post it on RMCG.

Joe

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I thought it was when you tossed an accordian into the dumpster and it
> lands precisely on top of the banjo.

Which is balanced precariously on an AKG C1000.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"playon" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsqud511u7puei3kp3oos2efl31jpn6q3a5@4ax.com...
>
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:08:01 -0230, "Rick Hollett"
> <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote:
>
> >Not Quite, when you can throw a set of bagpipes in the toilet without
> >touching the rim.
> >"Edward Bridge" <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:xJl5e.5289$44.4246@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >> What is perfect Pitch?
> >>
> >> > It's not often that you see the word "banjo" and "audiophile" in the
> >> > same sentence! (:^p
> >> >
> >> > Al
> >>
> >> when you pitch the banjo in the fire. .hehe
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

KM84s are better, 86s are even better yet. KM184s are a little brighter but
as long as one knows what the sound of the guitar in the studio is like,
it's obtainable. I used to prefer 184s on a Steinway until I really went up
and played a Steinway for a couple of hours. I guess 10 years ago I was
trying to make a Steinway sound like a Yamaha. Today I prefer the Steinway.

But however you present it, Neumanns aren't the only mic that can do a good
job on an acoustic nor a classical guitar. And some acoustics don't want to
have a matched pair doing the recording either. Sometimes it's better to
match up an LDC with a pencil and go for it. And sometimes it's just great
using a matched pair of figure of 8 in Blumlein and let it flow. Too many
possibilities in room, player, attitude, attack and musical selection. The
ideal thing would be to walk into a store and pick up two of everything,
assuming they were matched. And then you have to have one of each that
don't match the others so that you can have a little flexibility.

Or you can use one mic.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
<DCaswellUk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112976575.525529.8220@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I've been very happy with the sound of a matched pair of km184s for
> recording classical guitar. Check out this German shop for a really
> good price:
>
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_index [...] 74b54d65a3
> Some engineers prefer omnis, but I guess that this will depend if you
> are going to do the recording in a nice accoustic.
> One studio I used recorded the guitar using a pair of earthworks small
> diaphram omnis which gave a nice sound...
> Regards,
> David Caswell
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman wrote:
>>I thought it was when you tossed an accordian into the dumpster and it
>>lands precisely on top of the banjo.
>
>
> Which is balanced precariously on an AKG C1000.

I was going to say "a sharpened AKG C1000" (the idea being that it
would split the banjo and the accordian in half like a knife).

But then I remembered you can't make an AKG C1000 any sharper or
more piercing than it already is.

- Logan

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RMCG ? ? ?

>This will
> be the approach I will take with the Prelude to the Bach Cello Suite
> #1. If the result is not too embarassing I'll post it on RMCG.
>
> Joe
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Try a dynamic.
>
> Regards.
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
>
>
> -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
audiocentric
> stuff are at www.tyford.com
>
Ty

I was little surprise you said that, but if I was to try dynamic for
classical , which one. I have old Nagra with the dynamic preamps which is in
mono.

Do some people like guitar in mono ( besides me)



--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:53:43 -0400, Trevor de Clercq
<declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote:

>I have a sequential serial number pair of KM184s (they don't offer
>matched pairs).

I went through this same thing when purchasing a "stereo pair" of 87s.

When the serial numbers weren't sequential as I requested, they said
to send them back and they would replace them. When I inquired about
being "matched", they said ALL Neumann mics meet a spec high enough to
be verified as "matched"

Mark

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news3e5he$mq1$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Sennheiser 441 is a personal favorite. But try anything that you have
> without a presence peak.
rats , I had one those years ago , sold it to help pay a mid-wife.. .I
still have a cheap byers m 300 from 15 years

> If you are close-miking it, anything other than mono seems unnatural to
me.
Oh , is that part of what you mean when you have said "good mono beats bad
stereo ?"


> If you're miking from a distance, stereo seems a much better choice.

What is your idea of "from a distance? "


Thank you

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

/
please reply to edbridge@earthlink.net
"Mark Stebbeds" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:7o8l519to7m2o39a7g3l7mguot5peurfr1@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:31:32 GMT, "Edward Bridge"
> <edbridge@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Do some people like guitar in mono ( besides me)
>
> I like everything in mono. Even 5.1 mixes.


So when you record in mono for 5.1 mixes , are you close miking ?

The OP should take note, about mono close miking since they once said " they
record in a very small room for composers and conductors "



--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

please reply to edbridge@earthlink.net
"IS" <y@y.com> wrote in message
news:W9J6e.1042$VA3.103@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> Oh Believe me. I'm reading every word of this post.
>
>
>
>
>
> > The OP should take note, about mono close miking since they once said "
> > they
> > record in a very small room for composers and conductors "


I think PostHorn on 26 st NYC is the distributors for Schoeps Microphones
in the States but I may be wrong http://www.posthorn.com/Prod_1.html .
They could be a good place to try one. I know for one guitarist in NYC who
felt I should have went for the it

I feel Scot,Ty and crew has given something to really think about with
mono close mic recording which could be good in small room, loud town.

Question is : for mono close mic recording, is Schoeps a good one to go with
?

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Hal Laurent" <laurent@charm.net> wrote in message
news:79Y6e.20$z07.778@news.abs.net...

>
> Posthorn (Jerry Bruck) used to be the US Schoeps distributor, but last I
> heard Redding Audio in Connecticutt is the distrubutor nowadays. Posthorn
> still sells Schoeps, though. I got my pair of CMC641 from them a couple
of
> years ago.


I'm always a few years behind. lol .

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/