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Professional CDR's at reasonable prices, reccomendations?

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Anonymous
April 8, 2005 8:43:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,
Im trying to archive on cd music I have and would like to know which,
silver or gold, people think is better and 2) if anyone knows where I
can buy some. I'm not looking for 1000 but maybe 50-100. Is there a
website or company that sells the same quality cdr that your music cd
might be made of?

thanks
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 9:28:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I read somewhere that silver and gold backed cdr's were significantly
better for archiving than the blue and green dye based ones. If thats
true, are there any well known makers of these cds and wouldnt they be
worth buying?
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 12:00:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aaron D. <MAGIC5227@gmail.com> wrote:
>Im trying to archive on cd music I have and would like to know which,
>silver or gold, people think is better and 2) if anyone knows where I
>can buy some. I'm not looking for 1000 but maybe 50-100.

What does "better" mean? You want longest stability or lowest error
rate? If you want lowest error rate, try a bunch of different blanks
at different speeds and measure the error rate, and pick the ones that
are best for your drives. I get best numbers with the older Mitsuis,
others get better numbers with Taiyo Yudens.

As far as longevity goes, nobody really knows the story, but the more
stable dyes also tend to be harder to write so they have higher error
rates.

>Is there a
>website or company that sells the same quality cdr that your music cd
>might be made of?

Commercial CDs are pressings, not CD-Rs. CD-Rs have dye images and are
much less stable than pressed discs.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Related resources
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 12:57:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aaron D. <MAGIC5227@gmail.com> wrote:
>I read somewhere that silver and gold backed cdr's were significantly
>better for archiving than the blue and green dye based ones. If thats
>true, are there any well known makers of these cds and wouldnt they be
>worth buying?

Well, CD-Rs for the most part aren't any of them acceptable for archival
purposes. But which ones are more stable over the long term? Nobody
really knows.

I can give you a nice document from Verbatim saying that their dye
formulation is the best for long-term storage. I can give you another
one from Mitsui showing why the Verbatim folks are wrong. Who do you
want to believe?

I remember when Ampex was doing these presentations about how much
better the long-term stability of their new backcoated tapes were.
Then only fifteen years later we found out they were totally wrong.
Who do you want to believe?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 4:34:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4/8/05 8:00 PM, in article d375vf$huq$1@panix2.panix.com, "Scott Dorsey"
<kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> Commercial CDs are pressings, not CD-Rs. CD-Rs have dye images and are
> much less stable than pressed discs.
> --scott

....especially sitting in the sunlight...
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 2:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aaron D. wrote:
> Hello,
> Im trying to archive on cd music I have and would like to know which,
> silver or gold, people think is better and 2) if anyone knows where I
> can buy some. I'm not looking for 1000 but maybe 50-100. Is there a
> website or company that sells the same quality cdr that your music cd
> might be made of?
>
> thanks
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 8:38:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8 Apr 2005 20:00:47 -0400, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> Aaron D. <MAGIC5227@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Im trying to archive on cd music I have and would like to know which,
>> silver or gold, people think is better and 2) if anyone knows where I
>> can buy some. I'm not looking for 1000 but maybe 50-100.
>
> What does "better" mean? You want longest stability or lowest error
> rate? If you want lowest error rate, try a bunch of different blanks
> at different speeds and measure the error rate, and pick the ones that
> are best for your drives. I get best numbers with the older Mitsuis,
> others get better numbers with Taiyo Yudens.
>
> As far as longevity goes, nobody really knows the story, but the more
> stable dyes also tend to be harder to write so they have higher error
> rates.
>

That's an interesting idea - but surely you should really be comparing the
laser power needed to write to the disc. If a disc takes more power to
write to it properly then it should last longer. The problem is that you
really need to be an optical drive engineer to be able to find out how
much laser power is being used for a particular dye formulation. In the
old days a CD writer would write a test pattern to a calibration area on
the disc to find out the best power for that particular disc but nowadays
drives also use the ATIP disc identifier to help it decide on the best
write strategy. A well engineered drive should write with low error rates,
whatever laser power is needed.

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 11:45:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

James Perrett wrote:

> If a disc takes more power to
> write to it properly then it should last longer.

But why? Are you assuming only direct light or heat to affect the disc?
How about plain old chemical breakdown independent of any "power
factor"?

--
ha
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 5:43:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:45:11 GMT, hank alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> James Perrett wrote:
>
>> If a disc takes more power to
>> write to it properly then it should last longer.
>
> But why? Are you assuming only direct light or heat to affect the disc?
> How about plain old chemical breakdown independent of any "power
> factor"?
>

I think Scott came up with that point originally - I'm not sure if he's
right or not but it has a certain logic about it.

I'm also not sure if there is anything that can be called plain old
chemical breakdown. Chemical processes can usually be accelerated by
increasing the temperature so high temperature tests are really telling us
about possible chemical breakdown effects.

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 5:43:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

James Perrett <James.Perrett@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:45:11 GMT, hank alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:
>
>> James Perrett wrote:
>>
>>> If a disc takes more power to
>>> write to it properly then it should last longer.
>>
>> But why? Are you assuming only direct light or heat to affect the disc?
>> How about plain old chemical breakdown independent of any "power
>> factor"?
>
>I think Scott came up with that point originally - I'm not sure if he's
>right or not but it has a certain logic about it.

My point is that there may be some other mechanisms of failure besides
simple fading. There might not be, but there might be. The point is
that nobody really knows yet.

>I'm also not sure if there is anything that can be called plain old
>chemical breakdown. Chemical processes can usually be accelerated by
>increasing the temperature so high temperature tests are really telling us
>about possible chemical breakdown effects.

Yes, but accelerated aging tests don't perfectly simulate aging effects,
If they did, they'd be able to make a good Scotch in six months.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 9:29:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 3799t$6tc$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Aaron D. <MAGIC5227@gmail.com> wrote:
>>I read somewhere that silver and gold backed cdr's were significantly
>>better for archiving than the blue and green dye based ones. If thats
>>true, are there any well known makers of these cds and wouldnt they be
>>worth buying?
>
> Well, CD-Rs for the most part aren't any of them acceptable for archival
> purposes. But which ones are more stable over the long term? Nobody
> really knows.
>
> I can give you a nice document from Verbatim saying that their dye
> formulation is the best for long-term storage. I can give you another
> one from Mitsui showing why the Verbatim folks are wrong. Who do you
> want to believe?
>
I'd go with the gold Mitsui, based on the conversation I just had with an
optical media engineer for a large media brand.

Glenn D.
!