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Caller ID question

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Anonymous
June 23, 2005 11:39:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Hey Folks,

Stupid question, but I don't use caller ID for our land line.

If a phone number is not in service, can another person use (falsely) that
number as their caller ID?
Is it possible at all.

Thanks, trying to figure out an automated fax number/s calling in to a
Sprint cell phone of mine. The company of the perpetrator states:

*************
I have looked and I am showing that these numbers do belong to XO, but
are not in service at this time. It sounds like whoever is calling is
using the numbers as their caller ID. If the problem continues please
call your cell phone carrier, they should be able to block the numbers
from calling. I apologize for the inconvenience.
*************

Which also leads me to believe this person may not know what they are
talking about because cell phones to my knowledge can't block specific
numbers (at least that's what Sprint tells me).

Thanks,
Steve Banks

More about : caller question

Anonymous
June 24, 2005 2:51:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

In <prqdnY3Tip_p7ybfRVn-uA@comcast.com> "Steven Banks" <roadkingman_FINGER_@hotmail.com> writes:

>Hey Folks,

>Stupid question, but I don't use caller ID for our land line.

>If a phone number is not in service, can another person use (falsely) that
>number as their caller ID?
>Is it possible at all.

Sigh... (not directed at you).

It's _trivial_ to send over fake caller id, provided you
have the right equipment and connection at your end (you
being the sended).

In, for want of a better term, a "regular" phone arrangement (i.e.
your home telephone wired up as a standard instrument), the CNID
is sent by your local telco office to the destination office (and
then, if there's no "privacy flag", to the receiving phone).

HOWEVER, if you've got a larger office, or bigger... (the techincal
methods aren't important here) then you're likely to have your
own phone equipment that hooks up "directly" (so to speak) to the
phone network and _you_ send over the CNID.

This has some valid purposes. For example, all the phones
at a hospital might send out the same number, namely the
primary hospital CNID. But... it can also be misused.

In theory the intervening telco _should_ only allow the call
originator to send a phone number that's inside their
approved list. To go back to that hospital, for example,
if they have 201-555-1000 through 201-555-1999, they could
send out their main number, 555-1234, or they could set
up 555-1500 or even 555-1999. BUT... if they tried sending
out 415-555-5555 it wouldget blocked.

However, far too many telcos don't do this sanity check.

So yes, a place can legitimately send out any number they're
authorized for (even if they're not actively using it...) and
also, in lots of places, they can send whatever else they'd like.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 9:06:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Steven Banks wrote:
> Hey Folks,
>
> Stupid question, but I don't use caller ID for our land line.
>
> If a phone number is not in service, can another person use (falsely) that
> number as their caller ID?
> Is it possible at all.

Yes it is. Caller ID, unfortunately, has been shown not to be 100%
reliable. Persons using a VoIP setup that they can configure properly,
or a business with a PBX that has control over the transmission links,
can each enter just about anything they want as the caller ID info,
including false information.

> Which also leads me to believe this person may not know what they are
> talking about because cell phones to my knowledge can't block specific
> numbers (at least that's what Sprint tells me).

No, unfortunately, they can't. You CAN set up things like a silent
ringer whenever that number pops up, so at the very least you don't hear
the ring, but your phone will still get paged and still be in a
"ringing" state whenever that fax number calls.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
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Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:34:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
like most landline caller id's do?
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:34:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

"Oleg O." wrote:
>
> Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
> like most landline caller id's do?

They do if, of course, they're not blocked.

Notan
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:34:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

In <42BC5458.846B1DC1@ddress.com> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:

>"Oleg O." wrote:
>>
>> Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
>> like most landline caller id's do?

>They do if, of course, they're not blocked.

They don't, of course, unless you've entered in
the name in your own phone's local list.

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:34:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

danny burstein wrote:
>
> In <42BC5458.846B1DC1@ddress.com> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
>
> >"Oleg O." wrote:
> >>
> >> Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
> >> like most landline caller id's do?
>
> >They do if, of course, they're not blocked.
>
> They don't, of course, unless you've entered in
> the name in your own phone's local list.

My interpretation of the OP was that he didn't think
cell phones "could* display names.

I stand corrected.

Notan
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:34:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

In <42BC692A.43292BE1@ddress.com> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:

>> >> Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
>> >> like most landline caller id's do?
>>
>> >They do if, of course, they're not blocked.
>>
>> They don't, of course, unless you've entered in
>> the name in your own phone's local list.

>My interpretation of the OP was that he didn't think
>cell phones "could* display names.

>I stand corrected.

Just to clarify a bit:

With a cellular phone as the receiving instrument,
the telco sends over _just_ the phone number.

If you've previously placed that number _and_
typed in the name (i.e., it's one of your
menu-dial numbers), then, when the call comes
in, your phone will take that number and cross-index
it to the name.

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 12:55:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

"Oleg O." <un-jan05@sashos.com> wrote in message news:D 9hjn3$edh$1@reader1.panix.com...
> Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
> like most landline caller id's do?
>

I don't know about your landline phone company,
but mine gives me the choice between the basic "caller ID",
or "Caller ID with Name" for a higher price.
They claim the higher price is justified by a need for an extra dip
into a database to retrieve the name.
But I'm sure the price is higher really just because they can get it.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 12:55:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

John R. Copeland wrote:
> "Oleg O." <un-jan05@sashos.com> wrote in message news:D 9hjn3$edh$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
>>Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
>>like most landline caller id's do?
>>
>
>
> I don't know about your landline phone company,
> but mine gives me the choice between the basic "caller ID",
> or "Caller ID with Name" for a higher price.
> They claim the higher price is justified by a need for an extra dip
> into a database to retrieve the name.
> But I'm sure the price is higher really just because they can get it.

No they are actually correct. The CNID name info is retrieved through a
database. There are two ways that this can be done: either the phone
company contracts with a third party company that aggregates names and
numbers together (VeriSign is one company that does this), or they can
contract individually with each of the phone companies to send this
information across.

The advantage to the former method is that it's cheaper, but there's no
guarantee that the third party database is up to date (and sometimes, it
is incorrect). The advantage to the latter is that the information is
as current and complete as the phone company knows it to be, but it will
cost more.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:47:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

"Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message news:11botkqbjvnkga1@corp.supernews.com...
> John R. Copeland wrote:
>> "Oleg O." <un-jan05@sashos.com> wrote in message news:D 9hjn3$edh$1@reader1.panix.com...
>>
>>>Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
>>>like most landline caller id's do?
>>
>> I don't know about your landline phone company,
>> but mine gives me the choice between the basic "caller ID",
>> or "Caller ID with Name" for a higher price.
>> They claim the higher price is justified by a need for an extra dip
>> into a database to retrieve the name.
>> But I'm sure the price is higher really just because they can get it.
>
> No they are actually correct. The CNID name info is retrieved through a
> database. There are two ways that this can be done: either the phone
> company contracts with a third party company that aggregates names and
> numbers together (VeriSign is one company that does this), or they can
> contract individually with each of the phone companies to send this
> information across.
>
> The advantage to the former method is that it's cheaper, but there's no
> guarantee that the third party database is up to date (and sometimes, it
> is incorrect). The advantage to the latter is that the information is
> as current and complete as the phone company knows it to be, but it will
> cost more.
> --

I wasn't questioning the extra data-base dip, Isaiah.
I'm skeptical about the amount of the extra charge to the subscriber, though.
I suspect it's whatever they can convince the State Regulatory Commissions
that it's worth to the customers.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 2:32:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

In article <d9hrvk$3b6$1@panix5.panix.com>,
danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>Just to clarify a bit:
>
> With a cellular phone as the receiving instrument,
> the telco sends over _just_ the phone number.

Thanks, this is what I was asking about (sorry about the confusion).
The question I still have is _why_. I think it's one of very few
features that are available on a landline but not on a cell phone.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 4:40:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Mine only shows the name if the person is in my address book and that's how
it's supposed to work as stated in the instuction manual.



"Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
news:42BC5458.846B1DC1@ddress.com...
> "Oleg O." wrote:
> >
> > Why don't cell phones caller id's show name with the phone number,
> > like most landline caller id's do?
>
> They do if, of course, they're not blocked.
>
> Notan
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 7:44:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

In article <prqdnY3Tip_p7ybfRVn-uA@comcast.com>,
"Steven Banks" <roadkingman_FINGER_@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If a phone number is not in service, can another person use (falsely) that
> number as their caller ID?
> Is it possible at all.

Caller ID is *very* spoofable. Back before TechTV was bought and killed
by Comcast, and The Screen Savers was a good show, Kevin Mitnik was on,
and he gave a nice demo. He asked Leo for his cell phone number, and
then called that number from Mitnik's phone, but could make it show up
on Leo's phone as being from anywhere he wanted. For that demo, he made
it show up with the number of the White House.

He did not say *how* he did this, but it was very quick.

Basically, Caller ID should never be trusted to positively identify the
caller.


--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 4:25:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Thank you Tim, Isaiah, and Danny,

Helpful information. I'll let the company try to track down the offender for
a little while. I also took Bob Smith's recommendation and put the three
cell phones on the "Do Not Call" registry (30 days to take effect). It is
only one phone... that is not used much and only a hand full of people have
the number. So if none of this works as a last resort I'll get Sprint to
change the number.

Thanks for your help folks!
Steven Banks


"Steven Banks" <roadkingman_FINGER_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p rqdnY3Tip_p7ybfRVn-uA@comcast.com...
> Hey Folks,
>
> Stupid question, but I don't use caller ID for our land line.
>
> If a phone number is not in service, can another person use (falsely) that
> number as their caller ID?
> Is it possible at all.
>
> Thanks, trying to figure out an automated fax number/s calling in to a
> Sprint cell phone of mine. The company of the perpetrator states:
>
> *************
> I have looked and I am showing that these numbers do belong to XO, but
> are not in service at this time. It sounds like whoever is calling is
> using the numbers as their caller ID. If the problem continues please
> call your cell phone carrier, they should be able to block the numbers
> from calling. I apologize for the inconvenience.
> *************
>
> Which also leads me to believe this person may not know what they are
> talking about because cell phones to my knowledge can't block specific
> numbers (at least that's what Sprint tells me).
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Banks
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 8:51:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

John R. Copeland wrote:

>
> I wasn't questioning the extra data-base dip, Isaiah.
> I'm skeptical about the amount of the extra charge to the subscriber, though.
> I suspect it's whatever they can convince the State Regulatory Commissions
> that it's worth to the customers.


Probably, but databse dips don't come cheap. Generally they run between
2 and 4 cents per instance. Assuming even a mid-small central office
with only about 200,000 calls completed per day, and that's anywhere from
$120,000 to $240,000 a month, just for that CO.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 12:27:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

I noticed that sometimes the calling number WILL appear on my phone
BEFORE I answer it, but when I go back and look at my incoming call
history it shows a PRIVATE.
!