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ADVICE - recording at home & offloading to protools elsewh..

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Anonymous
April 16, 2005 5:13:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

howdy all,

turning to the pro's here. here is the situation:

i am heading into another album. i am stubborn enough (and enjoy it
enough) to want to track my own guitar/vox at home and then ship out to
some pro studios in two other states with protools rigs for additional
accordian, dobro, mando etc. i have good grace pre's & good vox &
guitar mic's i like. i am finally (after many years) good at mic
placement, etc. ONLY for myself and get very good tones i am happy
with.

i can track straight to cd and get very nice tones, nice and breathy
and wide freq. response. when i use an old yamaha md-8 recorder to
multi-track the deal is squeezed and no good due to format.

what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools studios
for more tracking and mixing?

some ideas from surfing:

akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer would
go with it?
mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple. (just
need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
the live trio gigs.

i am sure i am not seeing all the possibilites, and actually fairly
unsure of best tack here, thus the inquiry.

thanks much folks in advance,

scott
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 2:54:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1113639183.094255.304060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> scottvon2004@yahoo.com writes:

> what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
> tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
> weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
> whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools studios
> for more tracking and mixing?
>
> some ideas from surfing:
>
> akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
> alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer would
> go with it?
> mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
> new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple. (just
> need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
> the live trio gigs.

Most of the time these days, unless you're in one of the "money is no
object" fields (which pretty much excludes musicians recording at
home) you ALWAYS find either more or less than you need. You can go
the "more" route and save time, or you can go the "less" route and
buld up your system as you find out what else you need.

Since you have good mic preamps already, you don't need something
whose best attribute is its mic preamps (like the Mackie Onyx), but if
you got a multitrack hard disk recorder (like the Alesis HD24) you'd
need a mixer in order to hear what you've recorded. However, that's
really a pretty good approach - it's simple to set up, easy to use,
and you'll be able to take advantage of the mixer for more than a set
of mic preamps that you may not need. You're really only paying
pennies for the tracks you don't need on the recorder (it wouldn't
cost $700 if it had only 8 tracks) and it eliminates all the headaches
of setting up a computer, choosing software, and learning how to use
it.

I have some Onyx mixers here now and they sound very nice. I don't
think that one would cramp your style, but the Firewire option that
allows you to stream audio direct to a computer doesn't really suit
itself very well to working in the tracking studio environment (and
besides, it's a 16-input audio interface - more stuff going to waste).
With the combination of the Onyx and a computer, you lose all the good
stuff in the middle of the Onyx and have to use the computer for EQ,
"outboard" effects, and mixing (even though you have a darn nice mixer
sitting in front of you).

One approach that might make sense for you if you have the patience to
deal with the computer is to get an interface ("sound card") that has
multiple analog inputs and outputs - The current Echo Gina has two
analog inputs plus (if your Grace mic preamps have didital outputs) an
S/PDIF or ADAT Optical digital input, plus six analog outputs that you
can mix outboard through a mixer. By using the computer pretty much
just as a recorder, at least until you grow into it, you can get down
to work fairly quickly. Since you'll be using the mixer for monitoring
(you'll bypass it on the way in, recording directly to the computer)
and for rough mixes, if you have to cheap out, you can go for a lesser
mixer and consider it disposable or replaceable if you decide to push
your studio work further.

If it wasn't for the need to put things into a format that can be
imported into ProTools, I'd be tempted to suggest a TASCAM DA-78, but
you probably don't want to go there. The probably not yet released
Edirol R4 is a 4-track stand-alone (and portable, too) recorder that
would do the job for you (you'd need a mixer, too) but an HD24 is
probably cheaper by the time you get it to your door. You can even set
up a basic ProTools-based system for under $2,000 if you want to
dive straight into it.

Lots of choices, and only you can make the decision as to which one is
best for you. I wouldn't worry too much about sound quality - as long
as you stay away from things that don't record directly in WAV format,
you'll be OK. Look at how much of a pain in the butt it will be for
you to sit down and record for a couple of hours after dinner and a
hard day at work.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 3:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

scottvon2004@yahoo.com wrote:
> howdy all,
>
> turning to the pro's here. here is the situation:
>
> i am heading into another album. i am stubborn enough (and enjoy it
> enough) to want to track my own guitar/vox at home and then ship out to
> some pro studios in two other states with protools rigs for additional
> accordian, dobro, mando etc. i have good grace pre's & good vox &
> guitar mic's i like. i am finally (after many years) good at mic
> placement, etc. ONLY for myself and get very good tones i am happy
> with.
>
> i can track straight to cd and get very nice tones, nice and breathy
> and wide freq. response. when i use an old yamaha md-8 recorder to
> multi-track the deal is squeezed and no good due to format.
>
> what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
> tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
> weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
> whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools studios
> for more tracking and mixing?
>
> some ideas from surfing:
>
> akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
> alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer would
> go with it?
> mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
> new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple. (just
> need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
> the live trio gigs.
>
> i am sure i am not seeing all the possibilites, and actually fairly
> unsure of best tack here, thus the inquiry.
>
> thanks much folks in advance,
>
> scott
>

You could always get a budget digidesign system like
http://www.digidesign.com/products/digi002rack/main.cfm
as it uses protools LE software, so you could just take your files with
you and load them up. I guess it costs $1000 or so.


8 inputs (4 with mic pres) and 8 outputs.

I think this is their best deal. The M-Box (2 inputs) is a little less
serious and not that good in my opinion.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 4:05:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

scottvon2004@yahoo.com wrote:
> howdy all,
>
> turning to the pro's here. here is the situation:
>
> i am heading into another album. i am stubborn enough (and enjoy it
> enough) to want to track my own guitar/vox at home and then ship out
> to some pro studios in two other states with protools rigs for
> additional accordian, dobro, mando etc. i have good grace pre's &
> good vox & guitar mic's i like. i am finally (after many years)
good
> at mic placement, etc. ONLY for myself and get very good tones i am
> happy with.

> i can track straight to cd and get very nice tones, nice and breathy
> and wide freq. response. when i use an old yamaha md-8 recorder to
> multi-track the deal is squeezed and no good due to format.

Well, the MD-8 is minidisc-based, what to say about that old
technology but good riddance?


> what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
> tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
> weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
> whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools
studios
> for more tracking and mixing?

More signifcantly, what is the maximum number of live tracks you want
to record at one time?

> some ideas from surfing:

> akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
> alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer
would
> go with it?
> mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
> new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple.
(just
> need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
> the live trio gigs.

Magic words: "computer idea is new ground for me here" and the
brutally honest: "i am sure i am not seeing all the possibilities"

The obvious answer seems to me to be: use a computer. Depending on how
many new tracks you want to add at a time, you might be able to
exploit your current gear reducting new out-of-pocket expenses down to
the $0.00 level.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 4:34:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Check out the M-powered ProTools stuff too; an even more affodable way
to get into the ProTools world.


david morley wrote:
> scottvon2004@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> howdy all,
>>
>> turning to the pro's here. here is the situation:
>>
>> i am heading into another album. i am stubborn enough (and enjoy it
>> enough) to want to track my own guitar/vox at home and then ship out to
>> some pro studios in two other states with protools rigs for additional
>> accordian, dobro, mando etc. i have good grace pre's & good vox &
>> guitar mic's i like. i am finally (after many years) good at mic
>> placement, etc. ONLY for myself and get very good tones i am happy
>> with.
>>
>> i can track straight to cd and get very nice tones, nice and breathy
>> and wide freq. response. when i use an old yamaha md-8 recorder to
>> multi-track the deal is squeezed and no good due to format.
>>
>> what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
>> tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
>> weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
>> whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools studios
>> for more tracking and mixing?
>>
>> some ideas from surfing:
>>
>> akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
>> alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer would
>> go with it?
>> mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
>> new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple. (just
>> need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
>> the live trio gigs.
>>
>> i am sure i am not seeing all the possibilites, and actually fairly
>> unsure of best tack here, thus the inquiry.
>>
>> thanks much folks in advance,
>> scott
>>
>
> You could always get a budget digidesign system like
> http://www.digidesign.com/products/digi002rack/main.cfm
> as it uses protools LE software, so you could just take your files with
> you and load them up. I guess it costs $1000 or so.
>
>
> 8 inputs (4 with mic pres) and 8 outputs.
>
> I think this is their best deal. The M-Box (2 inputs) is a little less
> serious and not that good in my opinion.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 7:39:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks much for the responses. Couple questions:

1. Sweetwater tells me I can go M-Box, and bypass the pre's using my
own grace pre's by using the balanced line in's. It comes with
Protools LE, and if I got the basic tracking steps down, I don't care
about mixing, just need to track 4-6 tracks, and ship out to other
protools studios. This seems cheap and viable as I have the computer
with USB to handle it. Any concerns from you pros'?

2. The Alesis HD-24 seems like a nice clean second option, albiet more
expensive. I have some good outboard gear - reverbs, mic's, pre's, but
do not have a good little mixer anymore. Recommendations? Also how
would I transfer the 4-6 tracks to a protools rig?

3. The Edirol R-4 is shipping soon. Seems viable, and great additional
utility as a live recorder. Pre's rated as clean - above average to
good - as per sweetwater. Also four total tracks makes it tough, but
still doable for me. The lack of bypassing pre's bother me, as then my
existing good outboard pre's go to waste. - any thoughts or clarity?

Thanks folks,

Scott
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 6:58:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Saturday 16 April 2005 03:13 am, scottvon2004@yahoo.com thusly spake:

> howdy all,
>
> turning to the pro's here. here is the situation:
>
> i am heading into another album. i am stubborn enough (and enjoy it
> enough) to want to track my own guitar/vox at home and then ship out to
> some pro studios in two other states with protools rigs for additional
> accordian, dobro, mando etc. i have good grace pre's & good vox &
> guitar mic's i like. i am finally (after many years) good at mic
> placement, etc. ONLY for myself and get very good tones i am happy
> with.
>
> i can track straight to cd and get very nice tones, nice and breathy
> and wide freq. response. when i use an old yamaha md-8 recorder to
> multi-track the deal is squeezed and no good due to format.
>
> what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
> tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
> weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
> whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools studios
> for more tracking and mixing?
>
> some ideas from surfing:
>
> akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
> alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer would
> go with it?
> mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
> new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple. (just
> need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
> the live trio gigs.
>
> i am sure i am not seeing all the possibilites, and actually fairly
> unsure of best tack here, thus the inquiry.
>
> thanks much folks in advance,
>
> scott


1) Don't waste money on a mixer. You're computer can do everything a mixer
can do.

2) Since you have some preamps you're happy with I would advise getting the
Alesis-AI3, and a sound card with an ADAT input. (I would recommend RME
cards)

3) You don't have to purchase protools. That option is always available to
you, but it seems a bit overkill if all you're doing is recording tracks.
Protools can import standard audio files, so all you need is a decent DAW
program that can record, mix, and export the audio. You then send the audio
tracks off, mixed or unmixed, to the guys with pro-tools and they can
import it into their system. I'm a linux nerd who uses Ardour and I can
record, mix, master, etc, and people I work with can pull the projects into
their protools systems just fine.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 11:22:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1113691151.466098.19030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> scottvon2004@yahoo.com writes:

> 1. Sweetwater tells me I can go M-Box, and bypass the pre's using my
> own grace pre's by using the balanced line in's.

They might be right, but I wouldn't count on it. Nearly every low end
audio input device with mic and line inputs just attenuates the mic
input to make the line input, so you can't really bypass the mic
preamp. But it's really not so bad, and it's the mic-preamp interface
that has the most bearing on how the mic sounds. Since you'll be
connecting your mic to a high-falootin' preamp, it isn't such a big
deal to send its output through the M-Box preamp circuitry. On the
other hand, the M-Box does have inserts which are after the mic
preamp, so you could connect your outboard mic preamp there. They're
unbalanced, so choose your hangup and go for it.

> 2. The Alesis HD-24 seems like a nice clean second option, albiet more
> expensive. I have some good outboard gear - reverbs, mic's, pre's, but
> do not have a good little mixer anymore. Recommendations?

How much money have you got? If all you're going to do with it is
monitor, you can get away with a $50-80 Behringer mixer. If you want a
better mixer, spend $300-400 on a small Mackie Onyx.

> Also how
> would I transfer the 4-6 tracks to a protools rig?

Alesis has an adapter that the disk drive plugs into, turning it into
a Firewire drive. Using the software that they supply with this gizmo,
you can move files from the HD24 drive to the ProTools computer. Or if
you're not going to the ProTools system along with the files, you can
transfer them to your own computer using that Firewire gizmo and then
copy them to CD-R or DVD-R and send those to the ProTools facility.

> 3. The Edirol R-4 is shipping soon. Seems viable, and great additional
> utility as a live recorder. Pre's rated as clean - above average to
> good - as per sweetwater. Also four total tracks makes it tough, but
> still doable for me. The lack of bypassing pre's bother me, as then my
> existing good outboard pre's go to waste. - any thoughts or clarity?

Nothing yet. Klay Anderson just told me today that Edirol has just
started shipping the R-4. No live reports yet. Don't sweat not being
able to bypass the preamps unless you hear that it's noisy.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 10:00:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<scottvon2004@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> 1. Sweetwater tells me I can go M-Box, and bypass the pre's using my
> own grace pre's by using the balanced line in's. It comes with
> Protools LE, and if I got the basic tracking steps down, I don't care
> about mixing, just need to track 4-6 tracks, and ship out to other
> protools studios. This seems cheap and viable as I have the computer
> with USB to handle it. Any concerns from you pros'?


If you're recording those 4-6 tracks one or two at a time, you're good
to go with an Mbox. Obviously having only two inputs would mean you
can't track six individual tracks simultaneously.

The Mbox does have separate line inputs. They use a "combo" jack with
an XLR for the mic input with a 1/4" balanced TRS line input in the
middle. Using your existing pres is not a problem. It also has in
simple mixer built-in that makes overdubs easier.

Having Pro Tools software would also be handy. It would let you do
things on your own time that don't require a good acoustic space or
fancy monitoring (editing, for example).

I use an Mbox every day to produce broadcast stuff and I can't think of
anything that would make it unsuitable for your application. I've even
used the built-in mic pre's a couple times and thought they were fine.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
April 18, 2005 3:24:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Reuben Martin" <reuben.m@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:42621707$0$39635$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> On Saturday 16 April 2005 03:13 am, scottvon2004@yahoo.com thusly spake:
>
> > howdy all,
> >
> > turning to the pro's here. here is the situation:
> >
> > i am heading into another album. i am stubborn enough (and enjoy it
> > enough) to want to track my own guitar/vox at home and then ship out to
> > some pro studios in two other states with protools rigs for additional
> > accordian, dobro, mando etc. i have good grace pre's & good vox &
> > guitar mic's i like. i am finally (after many years) good at mic
> > placement, etc. ONLY for myself and get very good tones i am happy
> > with.
> >
> > i can track straight to cd and get very nice tones, nice and breathy
> > and wide freq. response. when i use an old yamaha md-8 recorder to
> > multi-track the deal is squeezed and no good due to format.
> >
> > what the heck unit is appropriate for me to accomplish my goal of
> > tracking say a total of 4-6 tracks (vox, git/mic1, git/mic2,
> > weissenborn/mic3+4) here at home, then exporting to protools, or
> > whatever format i need to export to, for use in other protools studios
> > for more tracking and mixing?
> >
> > some ideas from surfing:
> >
> > akai dps24 - darn nice standalone, but 85% more than i need.
> > alesis hd24 -hard disc recorder, too many channels - what mixer would
> > go with it?
> > mackie onyx 1220/1620- into my newer dell computer. computer idea is
> > new ground for me here, but willing if it could be kept simple. (just
> > need 4-6 tracks) *at least the mixer would be additionally handy for
> > the live trio gigs.
> >
> > i am sure i am not seeing all the possibilites, and actually fairly
> > unsure of best tack here, thus the inquiry.
> >
> > thanks much folks in advance,
> >
> > scott
>
>
> 1) Don't waste money on a mixer. You're computer can do everything a mixer
> can do.
>
> 2) Since you have some preamps you're happy with I would advise getting
the
> Alesis-AI3, and a sound card with an ADAT input. (I would recommend RME
> cards)
>
> 3) You don't have to purchase protools. That option is always available to
> you, but it seems a bit overkill if all you're doing is recording tracks.
> Protools can import standard audio files, so all you need is a decent DAW
> program that can record, mix, and export the audio. You then send the
audio
> tracks off, mixed or unmixed, to the guys with pro-tools and they can
> import it into their system. I'm a linux nerd who uses Ardour and I can
> record, mix, master, etc, and people I work with can pull the projects
into
> their protools systems just fine.



If you are only recording 4-6 tracks - you can go to Digidesign's web site &
download Pro Tools Free. This gives you up to 8 tracks of fully functioning
Pro Tools - free. The only down side is that it only runs on older operating
systems...

Sparky
!