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Requirement for mobile recording

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Anonymous
April 18, 2005 3:15:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,

I am seeing an opportunity for some mobile recording in my area.
Presently I have a modest project studio and will be moving from tape
to DAW in the near future. I will have a total of 8 channels of AD/DA.

Some of my clients would include live bands, churches and business
seminars.

My question: What are the - minimum - requirements to pull this off?

I could use all the help I can get. Please be as specific as you can -
I won't be insulted.

Thank you,

Darcy Gordon
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:24:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Darcy Gordon <peterdw@mts.net> wrote:
>
>I am seeing an opportunity for some mobile recording in my area.
>Presently I have a modest project studio and will be moving from tape
>to DAW in the near future. I will have a total of 8 channels of AD/DA.
>
>Some of my clients would include live bands, churches and business
>seminars.
>
>My question: What are the - minimum - requirements to pull this off?

Depends on the actual market.

Some of those folks would be happy with cheap 2-track work. Some of them
really want serious multitrack work. Some of them you might be fine with
just 8 channels and a preamp rack... some of them you might need to be
making submixes.

Expect to invest big money in a splitter.

>I could use all the help I can get. Please be as specific as you can -
>I won't be insulted.

Nobody can really get specific until you identify your market. The kits
I'd take out on a classical concert gig, a conference lecture, and a
rock band are all totally different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:24:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 40u16$5np$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Some of those folks would be happy with cheap 2-track work. Some of them
> really want serious multitrack work. Some of them you might be fine with
> just 8 channels and a preamp rack... some of them you might need to be
> making submixes.
>
> Expect to invest big money in a splitter.

I'm considering the prospect of doing some mobile tracking too (have much of
the required gear already), so out of curiosity, what kind of splitter are
you speaking of?

Thanks,


--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Related resources
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:36:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Nobody can really get specific until you identify your market. The kits
> I'd take out on a classical concert gig, a conference lecture, and a
> rock band are all totally different.
> --scott

Scott, lets assume the market is all of the above. What "kits" would you use
in each scenario - if you don't mind - I'm all ears.

Thanks

Darcy
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:38:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Darcy Gordon wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am seeing an opportunity for some mobile recording in my area.
> Presently I have a modest project studio and will be moving from tape
> to DAW in the near future. I will have a total of 8 channels of AD/DA.
>
> Some of my clients would include live bands, churches and business
> seminars.
>
> My question: What are the - minimum - requirements to pull this off?
>
> I could use all the help I can get. Please be as specific as you can -
> I won't be insulted.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Darcy Gordon


I would suggest getting a 16 channel custom color coded snake 100ft+
from Whirlwind or other companies. Then match it with a decent
transformer isolated splitter box with ground lifts. This way it
will make it more compatible with the house sound folks. When the
FOH guys see you show up with a decent snake and splitter, they will
be much more comfortable in dealing with you.
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 7:27:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:D 40u16$5np$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> Some of those folks would be happy with cheap 2-track work. Some of them
>> really want serious multitrack work. Some of them you might be fine with
>> just 8 channels and a preamp rack... some of them you might need to be
>> making submixes.
>>
>> Expect to invest big money in a splitter.
>
>I'm considering the prospect of doing some mobile tracking too (have much of
>the required gear already), so out of curiosity, what kind of splitter are
>you speaking of?

The best one you can afford. If you order one from Whirlwind, you get
your choice of three different grades of transformer, I think. Money
spent on better transformers is money well-spent in my opinion, but
the more channels you have, the faster it builds up. And sadly most
of these units are still custom orders.

If you aren't doing this sort of thing on a regular basis, it might be
cheaper to rent one. Most PA rental outfits have a splitter of some
description in the warehouse.

If you're only doing eight channels, you might as well just save some
money and go with XLR connectors. Once you start getting up to sixteen
and higher, using multipin connectors instead of XLRs and getting
appropriate multipin snakes can be a huge time-saver for setting up.
Not cheap, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 7:27:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 411n3$eug$1@panix2.panix.com...
> If you're only doing eight channels, you might as well just save some
> money and go with XLR connectors. Once you start getting up to sixteen
> and higher, using multipin connectors instead of XLRs and getting
> appropriate multipin snakes can be a huge time-saver for setting up.
> Not cheap, though.
> --scott

Interesting, I was thinking, and of course some house engineers might not
dig it because it's cumbersome, but that I would stick my own mics on the
instruments (I'm pretty much talking only about rock bands) and either split
the vocal mics, or run them into my Fireface and send the output ("0 latency
monitoring) to the house.

How would you setup to record, say a 5 piece rock band with the typical 2
guitar, 1 bass, drums, singer and two backup vocals?


--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 8:32:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

SSJVCmag speaks the truth though I would also add:

INSANELY QUICK TEARDOWN WITH NO DAMAGE

The lower budget folks don't give a damn. As far as their concerned,
it's your problem.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 10:07:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>> If you're only doing eight channels, you might as well just save some
>> money and go with XLR connectors. Once you start getting up to sixteen
>> and higher, using multipin connectors instead of XLRs and getting
>> appropriate multipin snakes can be a huge time-saver for setting up.
>> Not cheap, though.
>
>Interesting, I was thinking, and of course some house engineers might not
>dig it because it's cumbersome, but that I would stick my own mics on the
>instruments (I'm pretty much talking only about rock bands) and either split
>the vocal mics, or run them into my Fireface and send the output ("0 latency
>monitoring) to the house.

Sometimes you can do this. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes you HAVE to do
it because the PA guy insists on using terrible stage mikes. Sometimes the
backline isn't in the PA at all, so you have to mike it yourself.

The PA guy will NEVER accept a feed from you. Don't even try it. Your
job for the most part is to stay out of his way as much as possible.
Sometimes that means splitting, sometimes it means two mikes on each
instrument, sometimes it means you mike things that aren't in the PA at
all. Sometimes you don't get to decide until ten minutes before showtime
either.

>How would you setup to record, say a 5 piece rock band with the typical 2
>guitar, 1 bass, drums, singer and two backup vocals?

Depends on what the PA guy is doing. I'd want spots on the guitar and
bass amps, and I might take his or I might use my own. I'd want one
overall room pair in most rooms... but sometimes if the room is terrible I
will give up on the room pair and use shotguns on the audience. I'd
want a split on the singer and splits on the backup vocals in most cases,
probably demanding to use better vocal mikes than the PA guy normally
does since keeping leakage down is paramount. If stage levels are low
enough, I might try and get all the backup singers on one mike, which
might be seperate from the PA mike for the backups. For the drums, I
might want to spot them heavily and add overheads, but then again I
might just want to mike the kick if the overall ambient pair is picking
drums up nicely and I don't need a close-in drum sound.

Half the struggle is getting a good sound on stage. If there is a good
sound on stage, all you need is the ambient pair and the vocal feeds. Is
there is horrible sound on stage, you need everything you can get.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 10:07:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 41b3g$7ur$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Half the struggle is getting a good sound on stage. If there is a good
> sound on stage, all you need is the ambient pair and the vocal feeds. Is
> there is horrible sound on stage, you need everything you can get.

Good info, thanks for taking the time to post it, Scott.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 10:21:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <79fb58ba.0504181336.5743d1d9@posting.google.com>,
Darcy Gordon <peterdw@mts.net> wrote:
>> Nobody can really get specific until you identify your market. The kits
>> I'd take out on a classical concert gig, a conference lecture, and a
>> rock band are all totally different.
>
>Scott, lets assume the market is all of the above. What "kits" would you use
>in each scenario - if you don't mind - I'm all ears.

I think I have some propaganda up at http://www.kludgeaudio.com.

But this morning I did a classical gig with a single pair of mikes in a
good place, going into a rack with a Great River preamp, a Prism converter,
and a cheap DAT deck. Also there's a power amp in there and a pair of
speakers so I can place mikes properly. I ran a second mike pair into an
HHb portadat as a safety.

For conference gigs, usually you're stuck doing several rooms at the same
time. This means long running time is paramount. If it's just someone
sitting at a podium, and there isn't much hall PA, I will tend to take a
PZM for room ambient feed, and an AKG C747 on the podium. Place the
ambient feed so that when the speaker gets away from the podium you can
still pick him up. Mix the two at leisure, probably unattended. If there
is a hall PA with an operator, you can usually get a feed from him and
add your ambient pair in there. I haven't done one of these since Worldcon
a couple years ago, and they don't pay worth a damn, but I will do them
now and then as favors for the most part.

For an electric group on stage, I have a couple kits. I have a digital
box with a DA-38, an RME converter, and an 8-channel preamp. Also there
is a little 1U mixer from ARX and a small power amp for monitoring. Combine
that with an 8-channel splitter and you're good to go with a lot of small
rock and jazz bands. I can link two of these together for 16 channels.

I also have an Ampex 440-8 rigged up in shipping containers with a mixer.
This comes with mixer up front, so I can take up to 24 feeds from the
PA snake over the splitter, make submixes, feed them to the tape machine,
then take the tape machine returns and listen to them. This whole rig can
be set up in less than an hour in a back room with a pair of monitors.
Usually I spend more time waiting for the Teamsters to move the thing than
I do actually setting the kit up. Everything is on multipin connectors
that just jack together, and there is a scope and alignment oscillator
built into the shipping case so I can do a full alignment in ten minutes
after the machine is moved. Running cost is higher than the digital
rig because of the 1" tape cost and there are 30 min or 45 min reel change
breaks that need to be negotiated, but it sounds good and some customers
will pay for good sound.

The basic process:
1. get the mike feeds. Some come from the PA, some don't.
2. Isolate (as needed), preamplify, and record the mike feeds.
3. Make a rough mix from the feeds for monitoring.

--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 12:13:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<rsmith@bsstudios.com> wrote:
>SSJVCmag speaks the truth though I would also add:
>
>INSANELY QUICK TEARDOWN WITH NO DAMAGE
>
>The lower budget folks don't give a damn. As far as their concerned,
>it's your problem.

For the most part, this involves exactly the same thing that gives you
rapid setup.

One big deal, though: use gaff tape.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 1:03:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <79fb58ba.0504181015.98b1b0c@posting.google.com> peterdw@mts.net writes:

> I am seeing an opportunity for some mobile recording in my area.
> Presently I have a modest project studio and will be moving from tape
> to DAW in the near future. I will have a total of 8 channels of AD/DA.
>
> Some of my clients would include live bands, churches and business
> seminars.
>
> My question: What are the - minimum - requirements to pull this off?

I'd go in with a Mackie Onyx mixer and a stand-alone hard disk
recorder. Leave your computer haywire at home. An Alesis HD24 and
an Onyx 1640 will set you back less than $3,000, maybe $2,500, and
you can capture what's happening pretty cleanly, and choose whether
to do your mixing in the computer (transferring the tracks as files isn't
too difficult) or use the mixer.

Who's supplying the microphones? Club gigs? Church services? If
you're going to set up a temporary studio (that is, it's not already a
live gig), then you'll need all of the studio acoutrements - monitors, lots
of cables, mics, headphones and headphone amplifiers - no different
than a real studio.

Maybe you should start with business meetings, just record 2 channels
straight into your computer and see how that goes.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 1:12:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4/18/05 2:15 PM, in article
79fb58ba.0504181015.98b1b0c@posting.google.com, "Darcy Gordon"
<peterdw@mts.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am seeing an opportunity for some mobile recording in my area.
> Presently I have a modest project studio and will be moving from tape
> to DAW in the near future. I will have a total of 8 channels of AD/DA.
>
> Some of my clients would include live bands, churches and business
> seminars.
>
> My question: What are the - minimum - requirements to pull this off?

--------------------------
ABSOLUTE RELIABILTY AND REDUNDANCY

INSANELY QUICK SETUP

NO MISTAKES
-------------------------------


Go over the above note several times a day.
Any Single Tiny Place you see that you don't meet those mandates,
spend money and fix.



>
> I could use all the help I can get. Please be as specific as you can -
> I won't be insulted.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Darcy Gordon
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 1:12:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
news:BE899B0D.5D21%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com...
> ABSOLUTE RELIABILTY AND REDUNDANCY
>
> INSANELY QUICK SETUP
>
> NO MISTAKES

This reminds me of the old "I want it good, fast and cheap." You can pick
any two, but that's it.

What you're proposing is unrealistic for a lower budget service, in my
opinion.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 1:12:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
>> ABSOLUTE RELIABILTY AND REDUNDANCY
>>
>> INSANELY QUICK SETUP
>>
>> NO MISTAKES
>
>This reminds me of the old "I want it good, fast and cheap." You can pick
>any two, but that's it.
>
>What you're proposing is unrealistic for a lower budget service, in my
>opinion.

That's the rub now, isn't it?
But honestly, it's what the customer expects.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 2:40:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay-atldigi wrote:

> Chip Borton <cobiashimew@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I would suggest getting a <snip>
>
> As Chip suggests, don't skimp on the "boring" stuff like a <snip>

<snip some details>

> If you want to take a peek at the truck, look here:
> http://www.studiometronome.com/Metroremote.html

Hello Jay,

Nice rig, sharp looking crew, but just one little bitty 15" G4
Powerbook?!?!?!

Thought I'd ask... <vbg>

Andy
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 9:19:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chip Borton wrote:

> I would suggest getting a 16 channel custom color coded snake 100ft+
> from Whirlwind or other companies. Then match it with a decent
> transformer isolated splitter box with ground lifts. This way it
> will make it more compatible with the house sound folks. When the
> FOH guys see you show up with a decent snake and splitter, they will
> be much more comfortable in dealing with you.

Another tip when using a snake, if it's not obvious:
I carry a 100 foot 12-3 AC cord so I can take power
from the same place as any band PA I connect to.

rd
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:16:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4/18/05 5:32 PM, in article lHV8e.56002$lz2.4883@fed1read07, "Bob Savage"
<bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:

> "SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
> news:BE899B0D.5D21%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com...
>> ABSOLUTE RELIABILTY AND REDUNDANCY
>>
>> INSANELY QUICK SETUP
>>
>> NO MISTAKES
>
> This reminds me of the old "I want it good, fast and cheap." You can pick
> any two, but that's it.
>
> What you're proposing is unrealistic for a lower budget service, in my
> opinion.

Well, if a certain level of unreliability in capturing a one-time live
performance is ok with your clients, I guess you'll be fine.
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:17:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 4/18/05 6:07 PM, in article d41b3g$7ur$1@panix2.panix.com, "Scott Dorsey"
<kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> The PA guy will NEVER accept a feed from you. Don't even try it. Your
> job for the most part is to stay out of his way as much as possible.
> Sometimes that means splitting, sometimes it means two mikes on each
> instrument, sometimes it means you mike things that aren't in the PA at
> all. Sometimes you don't get to decide until ten minutes before showtime
> either.

Print this out and paste it to every vertical surface you frequent.
Also on the ceiling over your bed.
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:53:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

One option is to become the FOH guy yourself and then you won't have
problems with the FOH guy. I do this often enough where I supply the SR and
do the recording, but it takes some luck in getting chosen for the SR duties
or getting the recording job and being able to incorporate the SR into the
package. May mean a lot more work, but it's worth it as far as I'm
concerned, and definitely worth it when you get back to the studio and start
mixing tracks.

For what was mentioned as its target situations, it's likely that one could
do some, but corporate meetings are usually held at hotels with a full A/V
staff and that comes with the room. If it's the 5 person group thing, for
you to have full control requires either a very understanding venue or a
venue picked specifically to offer you and the group the opportunity to do
the recording with the recording in mind. Some of my recordings for groups
have been at a local BBQ place where a decent PA wasn't in place, so it was
easy for me to get there early and do the setup. Others, like a jazz
recording at a DC comedy club, allowed me to be preferrential in providing
my equipment because, as a comedy club, the PA was about 20 JBL Control 5
speakers mounted on building support columns all over the club. Churches
are pretty easy, but again, all the work is in the PA.

And that's not to mention the expense for equipment that's sort of
application specific. Well, used in an application specific sense. For
instance, I don't just do sound work. I could, but if it doesn't include
recording I feel that it's not that much of interest for me. JohnnyV and I
do a lot of jobs together, but unless he really needs the help on just sound
jobs, I usually am not interested. Regardless, I have had to purchase three
sets of speakers covering different levels of venues in order to make
hauling stuff around work at a minimal level. No use in bringing the big
speakers to a little speaker situation. Plus, with the jazz festival I
worked on for 8 years, it just turned out that I had three rooms to run with
three different speaker requirements anyway! And on those, Scott Dorsey,
god love him, gave up his time to come up from Williamsburg to help me year
after year.

So after all this rambling Scott's recommendations are spot on for just
doing recording. If you don't have control of the stage you can expect a
worse case scenario every time. And you have to be there when the SR gets
set up because no engineer is going to want to set up his console and then
yank it apart to incorporate your setup with splits, and if you do his
direct outs you could A) have ground loop problems (shouldn't but could) and
B) your feed will have his fader moves. And when you really NEED those good
mics on stage you'll run into a guy that gets frazzled before every show and
will absolutely NOT give up on their tried and true SM58s on vocals.

I guess what I'm saying is that if that's the niche you want to target, then
probably the best way to try to manage it is to be all of what the group
recording needs. Some venues are realitively professional too, such as
Blues Alley here in DC, but while they'll let you even bring in your own
engineer, they might not want to change over their SR setup. One
possibility is to contact a local or regional sound company and offer them
your services. At least that might get you into the market, but they will
still control whether you work or not.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote in message
news:LnW8e.56004$lz2.28053@fed1read07...
> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:D 41b3g$7ur$1@panix2.panix.com...
> > Half the struggle is getting a good sound on stage. If there is a good
> > sound on stage, all you need is the ambient pair and the vocal feeds.
Is
> > there is horrible sound on stage, you need everything you can get.
>
> Good info, thanks for taking the time to post it, Scott.
>
> --
> http://www.bobsavage.net
>
>
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:05:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> That's the rub now, isn't it?
> But honestly, it's what the customer expects.
> --scott

Well, if I were commissioned to do a painting, one would expect me to have
the paints along with the brushes, easel and canvas, right? <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 41b4s$5p1$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
> >"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
> >> ABSOLUTE RELIABILTY AND REDUNDANCY
> >>
> >> INSANELY QUICK SETUP
> >>
> >> NO MISTAKES
> >
> >This reminds me of the old "I want it good, fast and cheap." You can
pick
> >any two, but that's it.
> >
> >What you're proposing is unrealistic for a lower budget service, in my
> >opinion.
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:14:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I find that it's such a disparate range that breaking down a system only
takes a fraction of setup time anyway. The thing that pisses me off is if
people try to help me. Believe me, and I know you do, when you have
hundreds of feet of hundreds of cables to be rolled, I don't want someone
else doing it unless they know how. It takes me longer to either re-roll it
when I get back to the studio or worse, when I get to the next show. But
then again, one really should have hefty wheeled cable reels anyway and one
for each cable length they will be using. That starts to be a pain too, but
it certainly makes rolling cables a no-brainer.

Ah, but the one thing nobody has touched on yet is mobility. I can't say
how important it is to have decently sized pneumatic wheels on heavy items
and hand tracks/carts. And, of course, having a truck or van the size of
which actually accomodates those pieces after the equipment has been stowed.

I think we've just spent maybe another $14k for Bob and Darcey without a
single new mic or pre! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
<rsmith@bsstudios.com> wrote in message
news:1113867168.124756.103170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> SSJVCmag speaks the truth though I would also add:
>
> INSANELY QUICK TEARDOWN WITH NO DAMAGE
>
> The lower budget folks don't give a damn. As far as their concerned,
> it's your problem.
>
> bobs
>
> Bob Smith
> BS Studios
> we organize chaos
> http://www.bsstudios.com
>
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:33:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <xDV8e.56001$lz2.9606@fed1read07> bsavage@blacoxbla.net writes:

> I would stick my own mics on the
> instruments (I'm pretty much talking only about rock bands) and either split
> the vocal mics, or run them into my Fireface and send the output ("0 latency
> monitoring) to the house.

I don't know of a house engineer anywhere who would trust that rig, at
least not until he had an opportunity to try it out and knew you very
well.

> How would you setup to record, say a 5 piece rock band with the typical 2
> guitar, 1 bass, drums, singer and two backup vocals?

It depends on how much I'm getting paid.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:33:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1113872811k@trad...
> I don't know of a house engineer anywhere who would trust that rig, at
> least not until he had an opportunity to try it out and knew you very
> well.

Yeah, it's been a while since I've gigged myself, but in retrospect, I'm now
remembering what it was like dealing with the house engineer.

> It depends on how much I'm getting paid.

Good point.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:41:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
news:atldigi-C9FC52.01123719042005@news.verizon.net...
> If you want to take a peek at the truck, look here:
> http://www.studiometronome.com/Metroremote.html

Good golly Miss Molly!!!!!

Well, my intent is to do this mostly for fun (and a little cash to buy more
gear... me luv's gear!), and probably do very few live shows, rather, I'd
like to do some "we'll come to you" demo recording.

That's one heck of a rig you've got there.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:43:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:eqOdnatjoupQevnfRVn-3g@rcn.net...
> I think we've just spent maybe another $14k for Bob and Darcey without a
> single new mic or pre! <g>

You're not kidding!

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 1:43:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What's a DPA .. ? I understand that you mean a better quality mike's
internals but which? .. Neat trick!

Yes absolutely.. never try to work with the PA and operators unless
just want a backup of audio for emergency
Frz
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 2:19:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
> And when you really NEED those good
>mics on stage you'll run into a guy that gets frazzled before every show and
>will absolutely NOT give up on their tried and true SM58s on vocals.

That is why we have the SM-58 here with the 5-pin XLR and the DPA capsule
inside....
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 5:42:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

frasser@gmail.com <frasser@gmail.com> wrote:
>What's a DPA .. ? I understand that you mean a better quality mike's
>internals but which? .. Neat trick!

DPA is a company that makes mikes... Danish Pro Audio. They basically
took over the lower end "recording grade" B&K mikes when B&K started to
fall apart.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 5:42:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <d43ftl$6qb$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:

> frasser@gmail.com <frasser@gmail.com> wrote:
> >What's a DPA .. ? I understand that you mean a better quality mike's
> >internals but which? .. Neat trick!
>
> DPA is a company that makes mikes... Danish Pro Audio. They basically
> took over the lower end "recording grade" B&K mikes when B&K started to
> fall apart.
> --scott

I just love to hear 4006s called "lower-end".

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:36:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1113889259.861968.247660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"aengster@gmail.com" <aengster@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jay-atldigi wrote:
>
> > Chip Borton <cobiashimew@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I would suggest getting a <snip>
> >
> > As Chip suggests, don't skimp on the "boring" stuff like a <snip>
>
> <snip some details>
>
> > If you want to take a peek at the truck, look here:
> > http://www.studiometronome.com/Metroremote.html
>
> Hello Jay,
>
> Nice rig, sharp looking crew, but just one little bitty 15" G4
> Powerbook?!?!?!
>
> Thought I'd ask... <vbg>
>
> Andy

The PB is mainly for notes and such, or if it's a broadcast gig and we
want to have an assistant edit an interview on location so it's ready
when we go to commercial before the second half or whatever. It's not
for real audio chores. If the client wants a full DAW rig, we'll pull in
the whole PTHD rig, but we rarely need to. The Alesis HD24XRs work great.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:39:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <WL89e.56119$lz2.46565@fed1read07>,
"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:

> "Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:atldigi-C9FC52.01123719042005@news.verizon.net...
> > If you want to take a peek at the truck, look here:
> > http://www.studiometronome.com/Metroremote.html
>
> Good golly Miss Molly!!!!!
>
> Well, my intent is to do this mostly for fun (and a little cash to buy more
> gear... me luv's gear!), and probably do very few live shows, rather, I'd
> like to do some "we'll come to you" demo recording.
>
> That's one heck of a rig you've got there.

Even though it's beyond the scope of what you're doing, take inspiration
from it and also how we have a mini version in the racked "Airpak." You
don't need to go this big to take a few bits of useful info that you can
apply to your own situation. Enjoy.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:39:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
news:atldigi-B7A9E4.12392719042005@news.verizon.net...
> Even though it's beyond the scope of what you're doing, take inspiration
> from it and also how we have a mini version in the racked "Airpak." You
> don't need to go this big to take a few bits of useful info that you can
> apply to your own situation. Enjoy.

Point taken. I just started checking out this ng yesterday and have already
absorbed quite a few excellent insights from you folks.

By the way, where do you park that van? I'm just curious...

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:57:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <GGa9e.56131$lz2.40836@fed1read07>,
"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:

> "Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:atldigi-B7A9E4.12392719042005@news.verizon.net...
> > Even though it's beyond the scope of what you're doing, take inspiration
> > from it and also how we have a mini version in the racked "Airpak." You
> > don't need to go this big to take a few bits of useful info that you can
> > apply to your own situation. Enjoy.
>
> Point taken. I just started checking out this ng yesterday and have already
> absorbed quite a few excellent insights from you folks.
>
> By the way, where do you park that van? I'm just curious...

It lives about an hour northwest of Boston.

If you meant where does it park for gigs, it depends. If there's a back
alley with a stage entrance, that's best, but it sometimes goes out
front on the street (permits sometimes required depending on where and
what you're doing), sometimes a side street, sometimes a parking lot...

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:57:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
news:atldigi-BE3513.12573819042005@news.verizon.net...
> It lives about an hour northwest of Boston.
>
> If you meant where does it park for gigs, it depends. If there's a back
> alley with a stage entrance, that's best, but it sometimes goes out
> front on the street (permits sometimes required depending on where and
> what you're doing), sometimes a side street, sometimes a parking lot...

Hahaha, sorry man, I have a bad habit of not putting smiley's in when I'm
joking. Actually, I have a problem with that in "3D" too because I often
don't smile during moments of joking and sarcasm.

However, thanks for the info on where you park during a gig, very cool! How
do you get the cabling inside the van, or do you just leave a door cracked
(I'm doubting that, considering the way the inside looks).


--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 9:18:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> RD Jones wrote:

> > Another tip when using a snake, if it's not obvious:
> > I carry a 100 foot 12-3 AC cord so I can take power
> > from the same place as any band PA I connect to.

hank alrich wrote:

> Great point. There's a nearby venue where the donly good power is one
> duplex outlet under stage left. There's another outlet right where
folks
> usually set up the FOH console. Too many unsound guys come in there
and
> power their stage area kit from the under-stage outlet, and then hook
> their console rig to the other outlet. Hum is more than just not
knowing
> the words.
>
> I figured this out during setup for my first gig there, and do as you
> suggest, and I also telescope the shields/grounds on the snake
returns
> to the Meyer processor and mon amps.

When I was 'on the road' my snake and AC line were
tied together, so they got unwound, setup, and put
away as a unit all the time.

rd
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:57:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RD Jones wrote:

> Another tip when using a snake, if it's not obvious:
> I carry a 100 foot 12-3 AC cord so I can take power
> from the same place as any band PA I connect to.

Great point. There's a nearby venue where the donly good power is one
duplex outlet under stage left. There's another outlet right where folks
usually set up the FOH console. Too many unsound guys come in there and
power their stage area kit from the under-stage outlet, and then hook
their console rig to the other outlet. Hum is more than just not knowing
the words.

I figured this out during setup for my first gig there, and do as you
suggest, and I also telescope the shields/grounds on the snake returns
to the Meyer processor and mon amps.

--
ha
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:57:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1gv9j7k.53m7sm1gauo5yN%walkinay@thegrid.net>,
walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich) wrote:

> RD Jones wrote:
>
> > Another tip when using a snake, if it's not obvious:
> > I carry a 100 foot 12-3 AC cord so I can take power
> > from the same place as any band PA I connect to.
>
> Great point. There's a nearby venue where the donly good power is one
> duplex outlet under stage left. There's another outlet right where folks
> usually set up the FOH console. Too many unsound guys come in there and
> power their stage area kit from the under-stage outlet, and then hook
> their console rig to the other outlet. Hum is more than just not knowing
> the words.
>
> I figured this out during setup for my first gig there, and do as you
> suggest, and I also telescope the shields/grounds on the snake returns
> to the Meyer processor and mon amps.
>
> --
> ha

Of course this won't work as well when half the stage quad outlet box is wired
out of phase with the other half. We really encountered this on a gig many
years ago. Found it the hard way.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 2:00:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

So impressed with the advice on this post. Now I know what to buy,
what to expect at a gig, and how to drum up some business. Can't ask
for more than that.

Thanks all, for taking the time.

Darcy Gordon
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 7:26:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <unb9e.56133$lz2.44750@fed1read07>,
"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:

> "Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:atldigi-BE3513.12573819042005@news.verizon.net...
> > It lives about an hour northwest of Boston.
> >
> > If you meant where does it park for gigs, it depends. If there's a back
> > alley with a stage entrance, that's best, but it sometimes goes out
> > front on the street (permits sometimes required depending on where and
> > what you're doing), sometimes a side street, sometimes a parking lot...
>
> Hahaha, sorry man, I have a bad habit of not putting smiley's in when I'm
> joking. Actually, I have a problem with that in "3D" too because I often
> don't smile during moments of joking and sarcasm.

Ah, as in, "where do you leave the keys?"

> However, thanks for the info on where you park during a gig, very cool! How
> do you get the cabling inside the van, or do you just leave a door cracked
> (I'm doubting that, considering the way the inside looks).

There are two separate little locking aluminum doors on the lower right
corner of the back of the truck. You open one and there are several
multi-pin hookups for audio, and some video inputs. You open the second
and there are a couple big power hookups. The snakes for each attach
here, and inside there is basically a little closet with the power
isolation transformer and the beginning of all the wiring harnesses that
distribute everything where it needs to go.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 7:55:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-04-19 mrivers@d-and-d.com said:
>>writes: I would stick my own mics on the
>> instruments (I'm pretty much talking only about rock bands) and
>>either split the vocal mics, or run them into my Fireface and
>>send the output ("0 latency monitoring) to the house.
>I don't know of a house engineer anywhere who would trust that rig,
>at least not until he had an opportunity to try it out and knew you
>very well.
I resemble MIke's remark. NO computer interface or any other kind of
interface is going to stand between the microphones and my rig if I'm
providing sr. IF you want me to do anything but give you the bum's
rush show up with a transformer isolated split. I'm the guy with the
egg on my face if a glitch in your system causes me to have no vocals
or whatever you're feeding me with your computer interface.
In the live sound game you're only as good as your last bad gig it
seems and I wouldn't take a chance.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



agood captain is one who is hoisting his first drink in a
bar when the storm hits.
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 11:51:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
news:atldigi-4576CA.23260319042005@news.verizon.net...

> Ah, as in, "where do you leave the keys?"

Exactly!

> There are two separate little locking aluminum doors on the lower right
> corner of the back of the truck. You open one and there are several
> multi-pin hookups for audio, and some video inputs. You open the second
> and there are a couple big power hookups. The snakes for each attach
> here, and inside there is basically a little closet with the power
> isolation transformer and the beginning of all the wiring harnesses that
> distribute everything where it needs to go.

Awesome, thanks for the info.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 2:37:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1113889259.861968.247660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> aengster@gmail.com writes:

> Nice rig, sharp looking crew, but just one little bitty 15" G4
> Powerbook?!?!?!

That's because he's smart enough not to depend on a computer for his
primary recordings. <g>


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:55:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Darcy Gordon wrote:
>
> Now I know what to buy,
> what to expect at a gig, and how to drum up some business. Can't ask
> for more than that.

Sure you can - a good insurance policy covering your stuff
and all the possible contigencies if somebody gets hurt or
something gets damaged by, with or around you or your stuff.

Don't leave home without it.



TM
!