Overhead's for "rock" drums

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I'm looking for some input on what mics you prefer for overhead's on a rock
style drummer. I'm not talking pie in the sky, however, I'm talking, or
hoping, something under $300 for a pair. Go ahead and give the pie in
the sky recommendation too.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

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Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>I'm looking for some input on what mics you prefer for overhead's on a rock
>style drummer. I'm not talking pie in the sky, however, I'm talking, or
>hoping, something under $300 for a pair. Go ahead and give the pie in
>the sky recommendation too.

The best small diaphragm condensers you can afford.

That could be anything from the $35 Behringer measurement omnis to
the Crown CM-700, to the Josephson Series Four, to the DPA 4006.
At progressively increasing rates.

Having a good pair of neutral-sounding condenser mikes is handy for a lot
of other things, so don't think of them just as overheads. They are
probably the most versatile mikes you'll have.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On 4/20/05 10:50 AM, in article S_t9e.56266$lz2.18430@fed1read07, "Bob
Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for some input on what mics you prefer for overhead's on a rock
> style drummer. I'm not talking pie in the sky, however, I'm talking, or
> hoping, something under $300 for a pair. Go ahead and give the pie in
> the sky recommendation too.

Wellll, I HAVE used a pair of clean 57's...

$500pr would be a number of things, not the least is my
you-should-have-2-just-because AKG 535

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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news45sb3$eq6$1@panix2.panix.com...

> The best small diaphragm condensers you can afford.

Yep, I should have specified, I'm looking for small diaphragm suggestions.

> That could be anything from the $35 Behringer measurement omnis to
> the Crown CM-700, to the Josephson Series Four, to the DPA 4006.
> At progressively increasing rates.

Excellent, thanks for the model numbers!

> probably the most versatile mikes you'll have.

Good to know!

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

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"Evangelos Himonides" <himonides@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114014431.406430.289180@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The model is MK012 (sometimes MC012), and your friend is absolutely
> spot on. Just be carefull to buy them from a reliable source (i.e.
> soundroom) because the Oktava quality control is highly idiosyncratic.
> It might be a little bit more expensive but it's worth it.

Thanks Evangelos! By the way, how do these compare to a mic like the Rode
NT5?

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

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Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>"Evangelos Himonides" <himonides@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> The model is MK012 (sometimes MC012), and your friend is absolutely
>> spot on. Just be carefull to buy them from a reliable source (i.e.
>> soundroom) because the Oktava quality control is highly idiosyncratic.
>> It might be a little bit more expensive but it's worth it.
>
>By the way, are you suggesting a reputable dealer for the return policy, or
>because they actually QA the mics before shipping them?

Both. A reputable dealer will let you check out a pair of them on a credit
card to try without obligation. This allows you to get three or four
different kinds of mikes and pick the one you like.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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Good question!
The guy that I'm buying them from (in Russia) actually 'hand-picks'
them and tests them and I have heard the same about the sound-room
guys. During all of the years of my 'lurking' in RAP I have never heard
a negative comment about sound-room. The comments suggest that the
people there care about keeping their customers happy. On the other
hand I've read many cases about people finding huge differences between
their different GC-bought octavas.
Regarding how they compare to the NT5s, I would have to pass... The
only Rode I have in my bag is an NT2A. I have read reviews though and
they are generally from positive to extremely positive (which sometimes
IMHO might involve 'some kind' of 'sponsorship'). Sound on Sound Paul
White's overall impression is of 'effortless neutrality' regarding the
NT5s. On the other hand, the Oktavas are definitely NOT a 'cheappy'
solution, they sound great, the have interchangeable capsules (which
although I'm not dead sure, I think that the NT5s don't), the come with
screw-on attenuators, and they are cheaper I think.
Also have a go at the SE1A pencil condensers. They are dead-cheap and
can produce very reasonable results.

Let me know what you think if you get to try them.

Good Luck,

Evangelos

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It is exactly the same preamp and the different capsules screw on it.
It's just that buying them all together presumably makes the price more
attractive.
Go for what you need now and buy the others later (if you want them) if
you don't want to spend the whole amount. Just remember to ask for a
matched pair of whatever capsules you want.

Evangelos

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

No problem!
By the way I failed to mention that the SE1 mics are manufactured by SE
electronics...
http://www.seelectronics.com/sE1a_Stereo.html

Good luck with the mics!

Evangelos

P.S.
I really enjoyed your Bogner demos. I always wanted to try one of those
babies but never had the chance.

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"Evangelos Himonides" <himonides@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114017957.005121.216520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> I really enjoyed your Bogner demos. I always wanted to try one of those
> babies but never had the chance.

Thank you, I love those amps!

--
http://www.bobsavage.net

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Evangelos Himonides <himonides@gmail.com> wrote:
>By the way Scott,
>What are your impressions regarding those Behringer measurement mics?

They are noisy and there's a lot of group delay on the top octave. But
they have XLR connectors and the noise isn't a problem for drum overheads.

>We have been using AV-Jeffe miniature omnis for field research (voice
>and speech analysis) that were recommended to me by colleagues from the
>KTH in Stockholm but they come with minijacks and very bad cables and I
>was wondering if the Behringers might do be a slightly better solution.
>Are they very noisy?

I think the mikes you are using have the Panasonic omni capsules in them.
The Behringer mikes are made with a Chinese copy of the Panasonic design.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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Our band has been recording practices lately and being rather lazy, I
didn't want to bring a whole bunch of stuff down to record, i just
loaded a soft rack with a Sony PCM500 DAT recorder and a Symetrix
pre/Symetrix Compressor....both SX series. I'm using a single SM7 in
the room with another Behringer omni...cheapie mic to capture
everything.

It's funny but it really sounds decent. It's so true that even the
lowly dynamic mic like the 57 can do pretty well when placed correctly
and through an ok pre.
later,
m

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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:32:55 GMT, in rec.audio.pro SSJVCmag
<ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote:

>On 4/20/05 1:36 PM, in article Bqw9e.56321$lz2.29514@fed1read07, "Bob
>Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>
>> "Evangelos Himonides" <himonides@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1114017957.005121.216520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> I really enjoyed your Bogner demos. I always wanted to try one of those
>>> babies but never had the chance.
>>
>> Thank you, I love those amps!
>
>I almost had to buy (I think it was a ) Shiva closed-back combo. This would
>have been an EXTREME problem considering the Bogner cost and my current
>family finances...
>Had this '80 Mesa Mk2b since new and never figured out how to drive it. Got
>back to playing 2 years ago and approached everything a whole new way
>(minimalist). I had never gotten anything I liked out of the Mesa and
>considering the way I set the controls to get anything like I could
>TOLERATE, it just had NO power and broke up brittle-awful. It couldn;t keep
>up with a DELUXE and I was figuring it was some kinda mysterious symptomless
>BROKEN. I was shopping for replacements.
>I NOW know that, Aside from being a confirmed closed-back guy, I had to
>spend a year and 3 pairs of speakers in a Tremolux cabinet to find the
>eminence copperheads (my take on what I rememeber of the old JBL sound) and
>then completely reverse the way I set the amp. While it was hugely revealing
>to play a bunch of serious amps, PARTICULARLY the Bogner, I'm damned giddy
>about what I'm getting and further ecstatic that I don NOT have to wait $3k
>later to be able to play what I want...





+-3dB


martin

After the first death, there is no other.
(Dylan Thomas)

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Bob Savage wrote:
> I'm looking for some input on what mics you prefer for overhead's on a rock
> style drummer. I'm not talking pie in the sky, however, I'm talking, or
> hoping, something under $300 for a pair. Go ahead and give the pie in
> the sky recommendation too.
>

The best choice for <$300 is a matched pair of Oktava MK012's ....if yer
lucky guitar center still has some.

Jonny Durango

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You misread the fine print scott...it's "visually matched" pair...

;-)

m

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kevin Doyle" <kevindoylemusic@rogers.com> wrote in message news:c1d25850.0504211830.61fbe4f@posting.google.com...
> Jonny Durango <jonnydurango1BUSH_FROM_OFFICE@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<os6dnWPBsfgGaPvfRVn-pA@comcast.com>...
>
> >
> > The best choice for <$300 is a matched pair of Oktava MK012's ....if yer
> > lucky guitar center still has some.
>
> Remember to try flipping the phase on both O-heads.
> In most situations the bottom end of the snare is
> out of phase with the O-heads
> kevin


You *really* like that trick, don't ya' ? ;-)


DM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Savage wrote:

> I'm looking for some input on what mics you prefer for overhead's on a rock
> style drummer. I'm not talking pie in the sky, however, I'm talking, or
> hoping, something under $300 for a pair. Go ahead and give the pie in
> the sky recommendation too.

Get a couple of 2x2-foot pieces of 1/2" plywood or MDF, attach them at
right angles to create a "V" shape, attach a pair of Radio Shack PZMs,
one centered on the bottom of each side of the V, and then hang the
whole assembly over the kit, around 4-6 feet above it. The boards
should look like a V if you're looking straight-on at the whole
assembly. This gives a very good (for the price), even pickup and
stereo image of the toms and overheads; add a snare and kick mic and
you're laughing.



---
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"Albert" <zbert@alaska.net> wrote in message news:1114141365.709430.18210@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kevin Doyle wrote:
> >
> > Remember to try flipping the phase on both O-heads.
> > In most situations the bottom end of the snare is
> > out of phase with the O-heads
> > kevin
>
> Or better yet, get out a measuring tape and make both OH mics
> equidistant from the snare. Locks it right in.
>
> Albert


Personally, I got a mic or two on the snare already... enough to
put it anywhere I want it. I'd rather use my overheads for cymbals
and pretend (better yet, try to make sure) that the snare doesn't
even exist up there. <g>

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Jonny Durango <jonnydurango1BUSH_FROM_OFFICE@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>The best choice for <$300 is a matched pair of Oktava MK012's ....if yer
>>lucky guitar center still has some.
>
>
> Guitar Center never DID have matched pairs of MK012s. They claimed to,
> but they didn't.
> --scott
>

Unfortunately I couldn't afford almost twice as much $ for the soundroom
MK012's so I picked up a GC pair. They came with supposed frequency
response graphs that are close but not exact copies....I doubt very much
the validity of these documents but the mics sound great regardless.

If I ever wanted to "upgrade" to the SR sound, could I just order
matched capsules from them, or will I have to replace the bodies also?

Jonny Durango

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Wouldn't work for Richie Hayward. He has some of the most convoluted arm
movements I've ever seen and still be in time. He'd be smashing overheads
with every third stroke.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"psalter" <psalter@opry.com> wrote in message
news:1114165508.087205.153080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> <<The best choice for <$300 is a matched pair of Oktava MK012's >>
>
> You might look for a pair of Audio Technica Pro 37R's about $99.00
> retail
>
> << Or better yet, get out a measuring tape and make both OH mics
> equidistant from the snare. Locks it right in. >>
>
> The story goes John Bonham wanted the over heads three drum sticks high
> off the snare.
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jonny Durango <jonnydurango1BUSH_FROM_OFFICE@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Unfortunately I couldn't afford almost twice as much $ for the soundroom
>MK012's so I picked up a GC pair. They came with supposed frequency
>response graphs that are close but not exact copies....I doubt very much
>the validity of these documents but the mics sound great regardless.

People are too hung up on the matched pair thing. It's a huge deal for
distant field miking but most folks today aren't doing that.

>If I ever wanted to "upgrade" to the SR sound, could I just order
>matched capsules from them, or will I have to replace the bodies also?

Depends. The problem with the GC mikes is that sometimes when they ran
out of parts, they'd just make substitutions on the line. So I have seen
012s whose leak resistors were 680M, and some which were 100M, depending
on what they had around. If you have two that actually have the same
parts inside and the FETs have similar gain, you're good to go.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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"Matrixmusic" <kevindoylemusic@rogers.com> wrote in message news:1114184990.918925.22580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Interesting Dave?
> Have you ever inserted a stereo linked compressor with super fast
> attack and release times keyed from the snare to remove some of the
> snare sound in the O-heads?
> Kevin
>

Interesting indeed... No, I haven't. I use OHs for cymbals only, roughly
95% of the time. In my 30 years of doing this, I've rarely had a problem
with too much snare in the OHs or enough snare there to buggar up the
actual snare source track(s) due to phase correlation issues. A few times,
yes, but not all that often.

Might try it someday though... Most of my sessions don't allow the time
frame for too much experimentation of this type. Maybe that's why I'm
still a pauper after all that time. ;-)

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richie Hayward, amazing drummer, I could not take my eyes off him...