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Opening RNC?

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Anonymous
April 20, 2005 7:41:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Y'all,
I'm on the road and having trouble with my Smartdisk Firelite 80 Gig
external firewire hard drive. It had worked perfectly for a year until
all of a sudden it didn't. It's crashed twice and is probably fried.
(It disappears from my Powerbook's desktop and is no longer recognized
by the computer, apparently a b-tree problem). The first time I
reformated it all the way down to the zeroes, but within a couple days
it did it again, both times losing some valuable info. So I'm
currently recording to my Powerbook G4's internal drive, which seems to
be working fine and will suffice until I get home in 3 weeks.

But here's my question; both times when the Firelite crashed I had my
fairly new RNC compressor plugged into my Mbox's inserts via a single
TRS cable. Before leaving home I had opened up the RNC just to take a
peak at what's inside. I didn't mess with anything, just looked in and
reassembled it. Somewhere in the back of my mind I keep thinking that
I've read here that one wasn't supposed to open those RNCs up because
it could damage them somehow. Am I just imagining this or could the
RNC actually be damaged and sending out bad vibes and frying my other
gear? Probably not, but I figured I might as well ask. I've been
hesitant to use it again, which is hopefully just superstitious
foolishness.

Thanks in advance for your insights and expertise.
Aloha, Rick.

More about : opening rnc

Anonymous
April 20, 2005 9:35:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> No. Take things apart. If they didn't want you to take it apart, they
> woudn't have put screws in the case, they would have glued it. It's
> important to take things apart. Don't let anyone tell you that anything
> is a sealed box and you shouldn't ever look inside.
> --scott
>

Or they'd put one of those "warranty void if" stickers on it.

Jonny Durango
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 11:17:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> No. Take things apart. If they didn't want you to take it apart, they
> woudn't have put screws in the case, they would have glued it. It's
> important to take things apart. Don't let anyone tell you that anything
> is a sealed box and you shouldn't ever look inside.
> --scott

Not sure Pandora would agree ;) 

Dave
Related resources
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 3:53:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"rickymix" wrote ...
> I'm on the road and having trouble with my Smartdisk Firelite 80 Gig
> external firewire hard drive. It had worked perfectly for a year
> until
> all of a sudden it didn't. It's crashed twice and is probably fried.
> (It disappears from my Powerbook's desktop and is no longer recognized
> by the computer, apparently a b-tree problem). The first time I
> reformated it all the way down to the zeroes, but within a couple days
> it did it again, both times losing some valuable info. So I'm
> currently recording to my Powerbook G4's internal drive, which seems
> to
> be working fine and will suffice until I get home in 3 weeks.
>
> But here's my question; both times when the Firelite crashed I had my
> fairly new RNC compressor plugged into my Mbox's inserts via a single
> TRS cable. Before leaving home I had opened up the RNC just to take a
> peak at what's inside. I didn't mess with anything, just looked in
> and
> reassembled it. Somewhere in the back of my mind I keep thinking that
> I've read here that one wasn't supposed to open those RNCs up because
> it could damage them somehow. Am I just imagining this or could the
> RNC actually be damaged and sending out bad vibes and frying my other
> gear? Probably not, but I figured I might as well ask. I've been
> hesitant to use it again, which is hopefully just superstitious
> foolishness.

I agree, superstion and foolishness. :-) The RNC mechanical assembly
is rather straightforward and unless you physically damaged something,
disassembly is unlikely to cause it any harm.

In the unlikely event of actually damaging the RNC (or in case of a
water landing :-) it is highly unlikely it would have anything to do
with the hard drives (internal or external).

What a euphemism: "water landing"!
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 11:10:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message news:116ejeg9iijqm6d@corp.supernews.com...
> "rickymix" wrote ...
> > But here's my question; both times when the Firelite crashed I had my
> > fairly new RNC compressor plugged into my Mbox's inserts via a single
> > TRS cable. Before leaving home I had opened up the RNC just to take a
> > peak at what's inside. I didn't mess with anything, just looked in and
> > reassembled it. Somewhere in the back of my mind I keep thinking that
> > I've read here that one wasn't supposed to open those RNCs up because
> > it could damage them somehow. Am I just imagining this or could the
> > RNC actually be damaged and sending out bad vibes and frying my other
> > gear? Probably not, but I figured I might as well ask. I've been
> > hesitant to use it again, which is hopefully just superstitious
> > foolishness.

> In the unlikely event of actually damaging the RNC (or in case of a
> water landing :-) it is highly unlikely it would have anything to do
> with the hard drives (internal or external).
>
> What a euphemism: "water landing"!


Nice one... but, how else could you screw one up? <assuming power applied>.
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 11:10:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote ...
> Nice one... but, how else could you screw one up?
> <assuming power applied>.

There are a dozen ways you could screw up an RNC if you really
wanted to, power applied or not. Assuming "rickymix" was not
intending to do that, however.

But I can't think of ANY thing you can do to an RNC that would
have ANY effect, positive or negative, on a hard drive attached
to a computer at the end of the chain.
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 2:22:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <os6dnWDBsfjMaPvfRVn-pA@comcast.com>,
Jonny Durango <jonnydurango1BUSH_FROM_OFFICE@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> No. Take things apart. If they didn't want you to take it apart, they
>> woudn't have put screws in the case, they would have glued it. It's
>> important to take things apart. Don't let anyone tell you that anything
>> is a sealed box and you shouldn't ever look inside.
>
>Or they'd put one of those "warranty void if" stickers on it.

Those stickers are how you know that it's possible to take it apart. If
folks didn't do it, they wouldn't have bothered putting a sticker on.
Go head, invalidate the warranty.
--scott

NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE, indeed.

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 3:35:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rickymix wrote:
> Hi Y'all,
> I'm on the road and having trouble with my Smartdisk Firelite 80 Gig
> external firewire hard drive. It had worked perfectly for a year
until
> all of a sudden it didn't. It's crashed twice and is probably fried.
> (It disappears from my Powerbook's desktop and is no longer
recognized
> by the computer, apparently a b-tree problem). The first time I
> reformated it all the way down to the zeroes, but within a couple
days
> it did it again, both times losing some valuable info. So I'm
> currently recording to my Powerbook G4's internal drive, which seems
to
> be working fine and will suffice until I get home in 3 weeks.
>
> But here's my question; both times when the Firelite crashed I had my
> fairly new RNC compressor plugged into my Mbox's inserts via a single
> TRS cable. Before leaving home I had opened up the RNC just to take
a
> peak at what's inside. I didn't mess with anything, just looked in
and
> reassembled it. Somewhere in the back of my mind I keep thinking
that
> I've read here that one wasn't supposed to open those RNCs up because
> it could damage them somehow. Am I just imagining this or could the
> RNC actually be damaged and sending out bad vibes and frying my other
> gear? Probably not, but I figured I might as well ask. I've been
> hesitant to use it again, which is hopefully just superstitious
> foolishness.
>
> Thanks in advance for your insights and expertise.
> Aloha, Rick.

Hi Rick/All, this is my first post on r.a.p. I thought I would chime
in, as I have had a similar experience. It is possible that there is
nothing wrong with your drive. I have a LaCie firewire drive attached
to my G4 tower that one day just disappeared from the desktop, I
assumed it had died. I tried putting it on my ibook just in case it
wasn't the drive, sure enough, it showed up on the desktop and was
working perfectly well. I got the drive back up and running on my tower
by resetting the motherboard of the G4. Actually, the first time I
tried the reset procedure, the computer would not turn on at all, which
freaked me out a bit but I repeated the procedure and it came back to
life along with the firewire drive (and all its files). After a bit
more investigating, I discovered that there was some sort of "issue"
with the OS X Jaguar and the firewire bus and that the firmware of the
hard drive needed to be updated, which I did as per the instructions on
the LaCie webpage.
Not sure if this is the problem with your drive but it might be worth
looking into.

Good Luck, Paul
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 6:56:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 21 Apr 2005 10:22:30 -0400, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <os6dnWDBsfjMaPvfRVn-pA@comcast.com>,
> Jonny Durango <jonnydurango1BUSH_FROM_OFFICE@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> No. Take things apart. If they didn't want you to take it apart, they
>>> woudn't have put screws in the case, they would have glued it. It's
>>> important to take things apart. Don't let anyone tell you that anything
>>> is a sealed box and you shouldn't ever look inside.
>>
>>Or they'd put one of those "warranty void if" stickers on it.
>
> Those stickers are how you know that it's possible to take it apart. If
> folks didn't do it, they wouldn't have bothered putting a sticker on.
> Go head, invalidate the warranty.
> --scott
>

It's trivially easy to open "warrenty sealed" enclosures and reseal them
such that a service facility won't notice the breech.

If your manual dexterity isn't up to the task, I recommend NOT opening
the case.

How is left as an excercise for someone who has the tools to splice
magnetic tape.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 9:44:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Paul et all,
Thanks for the advice. And welcome to r.a.p., Paul! It's a great
source of info from recording techniques to Bar-B-Que technique!
I'll further investigate my dead Firelite drive when I get back home.
The first time it crashed I took it to an Apple "Genius Bar" and it
turned out to be a b-tree fault. I reformatted it to the zeroes, but a
week later it crashed again. It was making odd whining noises too. I
fear it's fried. (Fear of frying?)
Cheers, Rick.
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 12:01:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote ...
>> Nice one... but, how else could you screw one up?
>> <assuming power applied>.

>There are a dozen ways you could screw up an RNC if you really
>wanted to, power applied or not. Assuming "rickymix" was not
>intending to do that, however.
>
>But I can't think of ANY thing you can do to an RNC that would
>have ANY effect, positive or negative, on a hard drive attached
>to a computer at the end of the chain.

Here's one way I tried to screw up an RNC; it kept working:

http://www.mojopie.com/indexharvey.jpg

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 8:30:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

That's a great photo, Harvey! Why can't all equipment be like that;
small & light yet strong and great sounding. And cheap!
A couple months ago I was talking to Mark at FMR about making an
RNC/USB. Mark says USB would easily supply enough juice to power an
RNC, and that he's been thinking about doing something like that, if he
ever has time. I won't hold my breath though.
Via USB you could set the controls within the computer, which would be
cheaper and make the box even more robust. Plus you could save tons of
presets. It would work, as does the current RNC, via the analog
inserts of an mBox, or similar interface.
This would leave room inside the RNC/USB box for some other useful
analog front end stuff like a simple EQ and a Distortion Plus type fuzz
box. That would be much cooler to have on the road, and better
sounding, than all those digital modeling type plug-ins, although those
are also great for what they are.
Aloha from Hawaii, Rick.
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 2:54:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1114299031.613267.192000@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> snovak2@earthlink.net writes:

> A couple months ago I was talking to Mark at FMR about making an
> RNC/USB. Mark says USB would easily supply enough juice to power an
> RNC, and that he's been thinking about doing something like that, if he
> ever has time. I won't hold my breath though.
> Via USB you could set the controls within the computer, which would be
> cheaper and make the box even more robust. Plus you could save tons of
> presets.

Except for the RNC compression curves, that's essentially what the
t.c. Firewire DSP box is, except it's not dedicated to being just one
compressor. Or were you thinking of a box with external (analog) I/O,
powered by the USB port, and with a computer applicatoin replacing the
knobs? Oh, yeah, I see you were.

By being able to connect to the inserts of an M-Box, that would allow
you to compress while tracking, but in a portable situation, you might
not have good enough monitoring to risk that. It would certainly be
handy for those who compress by eye "to get a good level and avoid
overloading." But you're not one of THOSE are you? <g>



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 11:40:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Harvey Gerst wrote:
> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
>> "David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote ...
>>> Nice one... but, how else could you screw one up?
>>> <assuming power applied>.
>
>> There are a dozen ways you could screw up an RNC if you really
>> wanted to, power applied or not. Assuming "rickymix" was not
>> intending to do that, however.
>>
>> But I can't think of ANY thing you can do to an RNC that would
>> have ANY effect, positive or negative, on a hard drive attached
>> to a computer at the end of the chain.
>
> Here's one way I tried to screw up an RNC; it kept working:
>
> http://www.mojopie.com/indexharvey.jpg

Aw shucks, the 4 lug nuts says that it wasn't a very heavy car. ;-)
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 4:44:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike wrote:
> were you thinking of a box with external (analog) I/O,
> powered by the USB port, and with a computer application replacing
the
> knobs? Oh, yeah, I see you were. ..... It would certainly be
> handy for those who compress by eye "to get a good level and avoid
> overloading." But you're not one of THOSE are you? <g>

Hi Mike,
Yep, I is THEY! :>) Even back in the 2" days I always liked to
track vocals with a few dbs of soft compression taming the dynamics a
bit, rounding down the peaks. For heavy "sound effect" type
compression, I agree with you that it's best not to do that in
tracking.
Generally I like to try to get as good a sound as possible analog
before going into the computer. Digital compression, EQ, modeling, etc
is quite usable, IMO, if you start out with a good analog sound.
Personally, on the road I'm mostly concerned with Vocals, and Electric
and Acoustic Guitars. So I'd love an analog front end consisting of an
RNC, maybe a low freq roll-off, a Fuzz Box, and maybe a SansAmp type
analog guitar amp simulator, all powered by USB and controlled on a
computer screen, to be applied via the analog inserts of my MBox. An
RNC/USB!
Is there a market for something like this or am I the only person who
would buy one? Mark McQ says it wouldn't be too hard to build one if
there was a demand. Anyone else?
Aloha, Rick.
P.S. Also, with an RNC/USB you could tweak in sounds that you liked
while at home and then save them as presets to be recalled later on the
road. That would sure be handy. R.N.
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 1:21:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>Harvey Gerst wrote:
>>> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>>>> "David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote ...
>>>> Nice one... but, how else could you screw one up?
>>>> <assuming power applied>.

>>> There are a dozen ways you could screw up an RNC if you really
>>> wanted to, power applied or not. Assuming "rickymix" was not
>>> intending to do that, however.
>>>
>>> But I can't think of ANY thing you can do to an RNC that would
>>> have ANY effect, positive or negative, on a hard drive attached
>>> to a computer at the end of the chain.

>> Here's one way I tried to screw up an RNC; it kept working:
>>
>> http://www.mojopie.com/indexharvey.jpg

>Aw shucks, the 4 lug nuts says that it wasn't a very heavy car. ;-)

Well, it started out to be a double blind ABX test, but when I pulled up
in the White Freightliner for the second half of the test, most of the
people felt there were enough clues to prevent a fair double blind test,
so we stopped with just the Toyota.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 8:09:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rickymix wrote:

> So I'd love an analog front end consisting of an
> RNC, maybe a low freq roll-off, a Fuzz Box, and maybe a SansAmp type
> analog guitar amp simulator, all powered by USB

USB gots juice enough for that?

--
ha
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 10:48:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" wrote ...
> rickymix wrote:
>
>> So I'd love an analog front end consisting of an
>> RNC, maybe a low freq roll-off, a Fuzz Box, and maybe a SansAmp type
>> analog guitar amp simulator, all powered by USB
>
> USB gots juice enough for that?

5V @ 500mA = 2.5W
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 10:49:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote ...

> If we're talking about an RNC in its present form except with a USB
> cable instead of knobs, I'll take two,

Put me on the list also.
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 5:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hankster wrote:
> USB gots juice enough for that?

Hi y'all,
Mark claims USB would provide plenty of power.

Lorin, for my home studio I also prefer having separate units rather
than "combo boxes". But on the road I hate having to carry all the
various boxes, power warts, power strip, connecting cables, etc.
Realistically, if Mark ever does make an RNC/USB it will most likely be
exactly as you describe; a normal RNC powered and controlled by USB.
I'd love that too!
But I think that there are enough traveling guitarists on the road to
warrant an RNC/USB/GTR model as well, especially since it would hardly
need any more hardware, since it would all be controlled from the
computer screen. Have you ever looked inside a Distortion Plus? It's
nothing but a tiny card with a few little diodes and such on it. It
would cost nothing and easily fit inside an RNC box. And it sounds way
better than any amp modeling digital stuff.
Cheers, Rick.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 3:01:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <116shm4bm7t9q0c@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:

> > USB gots juice enough for that?
>
> 5V @ 500mA = 2.5W

I think that's a spec, but I'm not sure whose spec, nor am I convinced
that every USB port follows that. I was testing the TASCAM US-122
audio interface and found that switching on the phantom power casused
the USB connection to my laptop (but not my old workhorse Dell
desktop) computer to break. I measured the current and discovered that
when flipping the phantom power switch, it drew about 2.5A for a few
milliseconds, probalby while a DC-DC converter was getting up to
speed. That was apparently more load than the laptop port could
handle.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 10:24:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> rcrowley writes:
>> 5V @ 500mA = 2.5W
>
> I think that's a spec, but I'm not sure whose spec,

FAQ: http://www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq/#pow1
SPEC: http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_02212005.zip

> nor am I convinced
> that every USB port follows that. I was testing the TASCAM US-122
> audio interface and found that switching on the phantom power casused
> the USB connection to my laptop (but not my old workhorse Dell
> desktop) computer to break. I measured the current and discovered that
> when flipping the phantom power switch, it drew about 2.5A for a few
> milliseconds, probalby while a DC-DC converter was getting up to
> speed. That was apparently more load than the laptop port could
> handle.

According to the spec, the USB port supplies only 100mA until
the device negotiates for more power. "Intelligent power
management" for battery-operated systems, etc.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 11:20:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <116v4jonor16sef@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:

> According to the spec, the USB port supplies only 100mA until
> the device negotiates for more power. "Intelligent power
> management" for battery-operated systems, etc.

Interesting, and pretty clever. As a user of a product, I shouldn't
have to know that, but of course the developer should. The TASCAM
US-122 in question is a USB 1.1 device. Perhaps the power spec is
different for that standard. I'll have to check out the FAQ.

Thanks for the lead.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!