Do I really need Corsair RAM?

[Brian77]

Hey guys, first time poster long time reader. First of all I would like to say thanks to the avid posters on this forum for all the insightful information. Now to my question. I'm currently going to build another system in the next month or so. I'm currently looking to buy "best bang for the buck" components. I've learned from my last build up 2 years ago, buying hot off the press products and paying big bucks is not the way to go. This is what i'm thinking of buying...

Pentium 4 2.4C GHz
ASUS P4C800-DLX
Western Digital 36GB S-ATA, 10K RPM
Thermaltake Xaser III V1000A (Black) w/ window
ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 9700 Pro

Now I'm sort of stuck with picking memory. I understand having good memory is always important in building a good and stable system. But KingMax and Samsung ram is half the price than Corsair. I'm not a overclocker and if I plan on to it wouldn't be nothing huge. Like I said I want the best bang for the buck componets. I'm looking at 2 x 256MB Samsung right now or KingMax with upgradeabltiy to 1GB. I'm just wondeing what do you guys think? Maybe Kingston would be another option? But keep in mind "best bang for the buck".

Thanks for info in advance.

 

[elzt]

If you don't overclock and don't need the fastest, then get either the Samsung or Kingmax. Both are fine RAM's. Kingmax's even got lifetime warranty.

 

[Brian77]

Thanks for the info.

 

[pitsi]

Looking at the components you've already picked, I don't see a reason why not going with Corsair. It's obvious that you want the best possible performance, going with the most expensive mobo, one of the best graphics cards and one of the most expensive hard disk drives. Also your CPU is an excellent choice. My suggestion to you is go with Corsair (I'm talking based on my personal experience). Now if the extra money is really an issue, I would suggest you pick the P4P800 Deluxe instead of the P4C800. This way you would save an extra $40 that you could spend on RAM, without limiting the performance of your system (the difference in performance between the two chipsets is marginal).

Also, you don't mention what would be the use of this system but since you are looking to buy <font color=red>"best bang for the buck"</font color=red> components, are you sure you need the Raptor? For less money you could get the WD1200JB, a 120GB HDD with 8MB buffer and excellent performance, unless you really need the extra speed of the Raptor (if you will be dealing with video processing for example).

 

[Brian77]

pitsi, well you do got a point there. What I'm acctually trying to do is put together a system for about $2000 CAN (taxes in). Of course I love the latest and greatest components and I pretty much have them listed besides the CPU and video card. The setup that I have currently posted is just over $2000 with the KingMax ram. I'll use the system for gaming, mainly Half Life: Counter Strike. But I do want a system that will hack HL2:CS2 when/if it comes out. I understand that Corsair is a lot faster than KingMax but I really want to know if it's really important to spend the extra $100 to get that little more performace? With the P4P800 I would have to get a NIC because ther isn't one on board. So technicaly I would only save about $30 CAN. I mean I can spend the extra money on Corsair but I'm trying to undertand if it's worth it since I won't be overclocking my system?

As for thr Raptor.. well I looled at it as I'm not a kazza freak and 36BG will do just. I could go with a WD 120BG and save about $60 CAN but I just loved tthe benchmarks on this drive. I also think spening more money on a fast HD and getting slower ram is a better combo than vince versa. Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume the HD is more of a bottleneck than memory.

 

[pitsi]

I guess it's ok not going with Corsair after all, for saving up a few dollars. But my suggestion is whatever memory you buy, that should be CAS Latency 2 (not 2 1/2 or 3). On the other hand to be honest, you have a great system there. Maybe better memory will give you more performance but do you really need that extra performance? The answer is no for sure! So, simply buy whatever your money can buy for you, if that memory has CAS Latency 2 then that's even better. Otherwise don't think about it, you'll still have a great system.

 

[Brian77]

Can you explain "CAS Latency" I'm not so much into memory details, but I'm curious to know. =)

Thanks pitsi for your help.

 

[Prof133]

There is some information about memory in <A HREF="http://www.corsairmemory.com/memory_basics/index.html" target="_new">this presentation</A>.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[Brian77]

Very nice thanks for the flash link.

Ok I've done some research.

KingMax <A HREF="http://www.kingmax.com/product/pro_deskMPXB62D-68KX3.htm" target="_new">MPXB62D-68KX3</A> 256MB 16Mx8 CL2.5

Samsung 256Mb <A HREF="http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/DRAM/DDRSDRAM/DDRSDRAMcomponent/256Mbit/K4H561638D/K4H561638D.htm" target="_new">K4H561638D-TCC/C4</A> 16Mx16 CL3.0

Samsung 256Mb <A HREF="http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/DRAM/DDRSDRAM/DDRSDRAMcomponent/256Mbit/K4H560838D/K4H560838D.htm" target="_new">K4H560838D-TCC/C4</A> 32Mx8 CL3.0

These are my choices that I have to choose from. I don't think I'll find CL2 in lower brand memory. So is 2.5 fine? KingMax also advertises "Stability Assured for Overclocking". I don't know if that holds true or if it's a good idea. Any info is aprecated. Thanks.

 

[Brian77]

Also here's some benchmarks THG did on the Asus P4C800 Deluxe with <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030519/i875p-07.html" target="_new">Kingmax MPXB62D-68KX3</A>.

It actually out preformed other memory with CAS Latency 2.0

 

[Prof133]

Provide a link, if possible, to the vendor(s) you'll be purchasing from. Indicate the number of memory modules you plan to buy and how much you would be willing to spend on each memory module.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[Brian77]

I'm looking to buy 2 x 256MB and I'll be purchasing all componets from www.canadacomputers.com All prices are listed there. As for how much I want to spend? Well if you can give me a good enough reason to spend the money on Corsair ram over lower brand memory I will. But going back to my subjet header "Do I really need Corsair RAM?"

This is the prices listed there..

KingMax 256MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM $58
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM $105
Samsung 256MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM $59
Samsung 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM $108

 

[Prof133]

I'm not familiar with the said Samsung and Kingmax modules but since THG did well with the KingMax I would choose it from among the two brands listed. But, then again I can't really tell if the module at CanadaComputers is the same as the one in the THG article.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[Prof133]

You've got a lot of top shelf components there. If it was me, I would spend the extra for the corsair instead of going with modules that i know nothing about. If you get the Corsair, don't get the Low-Latency modules or the TwinX. Get either the Corsair XMS PC3200 or PC3500.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[elzt]

Modules that you know nothing about don't mean they're poor products . If you've done some homework by searching old posts or other reviews, you'd find that both Kingmax and Samsung make fine RAM's. In fact, Kingmax is the largest memory producer for the Taiwan and East Asian markets. Its RAM's are well known for overclocking well and stablity. Like I said before, if he doesn't need the fastest RAM, then Kingmax is an excellent choice. Perhaps <A HREF="http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=314" target="_new">this review</A> would support my point...

 

[Prof133]

I didn't say they were poor products. I said I didn't know much about them. An official forum to direct users who have issues with their memory like Corsair's forum and the like.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[Prof133]

If you've done some homework ...

You didn't have to get nasty. In the future, just argue with me in a respectful tone and i'll do the same and together we can help these users come away with the best products for each situation.

BTW, thanx for link to the KingMax memory review.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[elzt]

<b>Sorry</b> that I misunderstood what you said earlier and that I phrased my opinion poorly...

 

[Prof133]

No problemo. Good day, elzt!

And Brian, let us know what you eventually decide on for this impressive rig.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>

 

[CompSci]

Back to the original question 'Do I need Corsair...'
IMHO, Absolutely Not! In fact I think its twice the price for "ZERO" preformance increase!

Consider(for discussion, not argument) memory preformance at any specific rating, timming and specification. At a given FSB, and memory settings, all memory will yield the same preformance result! - it will either meet the given repetitive, machine cycle timings on demand reliably or not! At any given setting one brand of memory LITERALLY can not run faster than another... it either DOES run at say Cas 2.5,2,2,5 reliability or it DOESNT! One can't run faster than another cause the recieving demand cycle just doesn't come around any faster for one than the other - its a fixed schedule! In this case being there before schedule doesn't get the train outa the station any faster...

Now, RELIABILITY in meeting the schedule and the ABILITY to meet a QUICKER Schedure(possible OCing) is totally another story...

With the growing popularity and demand for DDR memory I think the most recognised memory makers have zeroed in on pretty hi quality, conservitively speced DDR memory lately... I havent gotten any bad DDR memory(Samsung, Kinston or even KingstonValueRam) that wont meet its spec reliabley and have at least some OC in it in quite a while... I think we're havin a good run on reliable and reasonably priced memory!

For my money (and I better be ready to duck flames here),
Coarsair is much like a V12 Jag, any good V8 will whip it, it ain't ever held a record for anything, and it better stay home on race day or its in for a big embarrassment! I have some KingstionValueRam that will whip it!!!

And if ya want some killer memory bandwidth, chase down who's really makin some of the faster modules outa this table!!!

Module---Format---- Type----Speed Cycles Bus---- Width-- Transfer(MB/sec)
PC66-----SDR DIMM--10ns----67----1----- 66----- 8------ 533
PC100----SDR DIMM--8ns-----100---1----- 100---- 8------ 800
PC133----SDR DIMM--7.5ns---133---1----- 133---- 8------ 1,066
PC1600---DDR DIMM--DDR200--100---2----- 200---- 8------ 1,600
PC2100---DDR DIMM--DDR266--133---2----- 266---- 8------ 2,133
PC2400---DDR DIMM--DDR300--150---2----- 300---- 8------ 2,400
PC2700---DDR DIMM--DDR333--167---2----- 333---- 8------ 2,666
PC3000---DDR DIMM--DDR366--183---2----- 366---- 8------ 2,933
PC3200---DDR DIMM--DDR400--200---2----- 400---- 8------ 3,200
PC3600---DDR DIMM--DDR444--22----2----- 444---- 8------ 3,555
PC4000---DDR DIMM--DDR500--250---2----- 500---- 8------ 4,000
PC4300---DDR DIMM--DDR533--267---2----- 533---- 8------ 4,266
RIMM1200 RIMM-16---PC600---300---2----- 600---- 2------ 1,200
RIMM1400 RIMM-16---PC700---350---2----- 700---- 2------ 1,400
RIMM1600 RIMM-16---PC800---400---2----- 800---- 2------ 1,600
RIMM2100 RIMM-16---PC1066--533---2----- 1,066-- 2------ 2,133
RIMM2400 RIMM-16---PC1200--600---2----- 1,200-- 2------ 2,400
RIMM1200 RIMM-16DC PC600---300---2----- 600---- 2------ 2,400
RIMM1400 RIMM-16DC PC700---350---2----- 700---- 2------ 2,800
RIMM1600 RIMM-16DC PC800---400---2----- 800---- 2------ 3,200
RIMM2100 RIMM-16DC PC1066--533---2----- 1,066-- 2------ 4,266
RIMM2400 RIMM-16DC PC1200--600---2----- 1,200-- 2------ 4,800
RIMM3200 RIMM-32---PC800---400---2----- 800---- 4------ 3,200
RIMM4200 RIMM-32---PC1066--533---2----- 1,066-- 4------ 4,266
RIMM4800 RIMM-32---PC1200--600---2----- 1,200-- 4------ 4,800
RIMM6400 RIMM-64---PC800---400---2----- 800---- 8------ 6,400
RIMM8500 RIMM-64---PC1066--533---2----- 1,066-- 8------ 8,533
RIMM9600 RIMM-64---PC1200--600---2----- 1,200-- 8------ 9,600

Whew... 9,600 MB/s - Now that's Memory Bandwidth!!!
Now ya have to take everything ya read with a grain a salt - Even THG!
DDR (even Dual channel) Beats Rambus, hmmm... Marketing???

 

[lumper]

in the spirit of discussing this not arguing i would have to say i strongly disagree with your statements regarding any brand with the same ratings running the same speeds.

the physical construcion and layout of the chips and modules can have an impact,tha materials used,
if you research this on many sites , i believe anandtech or guru3d did a few articles comparing different brands and the same settings on the same platforms and yeilded substantial differences in benchmarks.

black pcb mushkin back in the sdram days at one time was way ahead of its competition with the same settings and claims, there infineon chips and diferent materials were what they claimed to be the advantage.
im no expert but i know from many many experiences that i have replaced my own and other peoples memory from pny, or samsung to mushkin or kingston and saw big gains in performance.
again running the same settings as the generic as i call it memory.

i believe, however i havent looked lately but i think i remember even seeing test results on a few memory manufactorers sites showing there performance over the competition.

this link will take you to corsairs page where they have independant testing results with mushkin , corsair, crucial, kingmax, and ocz.

http://www.corsairmicro.com/xms/xms3000perf.html

youll see differences in performance within the same settings from every maker and mushkin seems to be pretty tight with corsair in these results.


and every memory maker i have seen all claim to have the best, lol,
ocz says "OCZ Enhanced Latency PC-3200 is the best performing DDR memory on the market. Period."

mushkin says,
"Our PC3200 is built on a custom 6 layer PCB using the highest quality 5 ns discreet components available in the memory industry. Through fine-tuning of the resistor network on the PCB we have been able to achieve the highest possible speed beyond 400 MHz while maintaining the capability for low latency operation."

kingston has a line about the best for gamers, so on and so on...

corsair says , for rock solid compatibility and the ultimate choice for gamers, lol

so i think there are differences from one brand rated at pc3200 cas 2235 vs another with the same claims, perhaps negligable and very minor but surely there are differences.

 

[CompSci]

For consideration, not argument...
So you think there really are differences in performance between brands with the same “Rating”…
And, I totally agree that there are performance differences with memory that have the same rating!.

However, I think that the difference is that while memory may have the same “Rating” (and we commonly only get the CAS/CL rating) the memory manufactures know how to get their memory detected and take on different “Settings” . ie. - There is a subtle difference between cas2,2,2,5 and cas2,2,3,5 – or cas2.2.2,6.

I say this because, if I go “UserDefined” memory settings on newer mobo’s that actually allow all 4 memory settings (CAS,preCharge,RasCasDelay,Prefetch), all modules( if it will run correctly), regardless of the Mfgr, will run with almost the exact same results!
( I say “almost” because even two different runs of the benchmark won’t yield “Exactly” the same – but almost…) .

Case in point… I have to use PC2700 for this test and example…
Compare Kingmax Cas2.0, generic noname Cas3, and some other Cas2.5. Set your “userdefined” memory settings to Cas3,4,4,8 ( it all will run at that) and run benches on all of them… They all run the same!!!!
If KingMax could perform better at those setting? - Why doesn’t it!
I propose that the settings “Set” the fixed schedule – and the memory “Can’t” perform any better than the fixed schedule settings! The settings are just parameters for the opperations loop and ya can't speed up the loop without changing the parameters(settings).

Now, I’m not sure here, but do have good reason to believe that it’s the settings that determine the performance – not the brand name!
The memory either runs reliably per its settings or it doesn’t!

Or perhaps there more's goin on than we know? Settings we commonly don't know about/can't set?
Some memory just won't even let ya slow it down!
Some memory gives ya the same bench reguardless how ya set it! ( does it know how to disreguard/override settings?)
Who really knows?

 

[Kioku]

Prof133 - could you tell me a bit about Low-Letency modules , and the difference between TwinX and XMS?

I am new at this, as can be seen heheh

 

[Prof133]

A wealth of information about Corsair products is available at <A HREF="http://houseofhelp.com/v2/forumdisplay.php?s=57b6522bb43674633fc703f259e9e7b1&forumid=128" target="_new">Corsair's Official Forum</A>. For example, there's some information about XMS <A HREF="http://houseofhelp.com/v2/showthread.php?s=57b6522bb43674633fc703f259e9e7b1&threadid=8045" target="_new">here</A>.

<b><font color=blue>I agree with that solution ... because it is a logical one.</font color=blue></b>