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Analog Open Reel - Good Investment?

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Anonymous
May 1, 2005 11:43:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine, new
or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value? This
one seems pricey.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html

If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

Thanks,
Merkan
May 1, 2005 11:43:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Merkan wrote:

> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine, new
> or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value? This
> one seems pricey.

Pro Audio equipment rarely make a good investment. That is if by
"investment" you mean something that you will be able to sell for a
higher price than what you purchased it for. Audio equipment can be
considered an investment if by purchasing a piece of gear, you are able
to take on more jobs or charge more for your services. There are very
few pieces that if purchased at the right time, for the right price
would provide a very nice return. A Fairchild 670 comes to mind.
However, it is nearly impossible to anticipate what is going to provide
a good return in the future. Almost all of the gear depreciates.

> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html

The Tascam is definitely not something to look at as an investment. I
don't think tape machines in general are anything to consider.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 11:43:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Merkan" wrote ...
> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel
> machine, new or used, as an investment? Will they increase or
> decrease in value? This one seems pricey.
>
> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html
>
> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available
> new that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

Suggest reading the archives on the discussion of the decline
of analog audio tape recording and the status of the suppliers
of the raw tape stock.
Related resources
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 11:51:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

See if you can get a regular supply of good 1/4" tape on NAB spools over the
next 2-3 years, first.
If new is unavailable, you may be obliged to buy used tape stock And stick
to the same type for bias reasons.
Hardware nearly always drops in value over time, but wait 50 years and its
worth will climb again!


"Merkan" <merkan@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:Sjade.70$Vz4.60@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine,
> new or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value?
> This one seems pricey.
>
> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html
>
> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
> that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?
>
> Thanks,
> Merkan
>
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 12:41:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Sjade.70$Vz4.60@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> merkan@swbell.net writes:

> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine, new
> or used, as an investment?

It never makes sense to buy a working man's tools as an investment.
You're taking a pretty big risk, and you're keeping a tool out of the
hands of someone who might be making good use of it. "Vintage" guitars
are an example. Sure, a Martin D-45 might be worth a million bucks
today, but nobody who has one is willing to sell it for anything
that's been offered recently. And it's too valuable to play.

> Will they increase or decrease in value? This
> one seems pricey.
>
> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html

The TASCAM BR-20 is one of the very few analog recorders still being
made. Seeing as how they've been decreasing in value, with $30,000
recorders being pushed into the dumpster, I'd not expect much in the
way of appreciation in the future.

> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
> that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

I wouldn't bank on it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:21:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Merkan wrote:

> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine, new
> or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value? This
> one seems pricey.
>
> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html
>
> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
> that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

When manufacturing stops it's usually for a good reason - like the new model is
better and cheaper.

A Tascam is only a 'pro-sumer' product anyway - it's value will be largely as
junk.

Graham
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 11:10:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Why not get its value by using it?

Other than that, why would you want to spend the money?
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:31:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

blckout420@aol.com wrote:
> Why not get its value by using it?
>
> Other than that, why would you want to spend the money?
>


Damn it! Don't confuse us with logic. ;) 
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 3:33:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Sjade.70$Vz4.60@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
Merkan <merkan@swbell.net> wrote:
>Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine, new
>or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value? This
>one seems pricey.
>
>http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html

It is pricey, considering what you get. If you intend on buying a machine
as an investment, the time to do it was fifteen years back when you could
order as many used Ampex 350s as you wanted from Harris/Allied for $200
a pop.

>If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
>that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

Sure, I think any of the higher end gear from guys like Fearn, Manley,
Great River, etc. will keep their value or go up. Quality microphones
are always going to keep their value.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 3:49:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Merkan wrote:

> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine,
> new
> or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value? This
> one seems pricey.
>
> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html
>
> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
> that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

What I'd like to know is how you got to that page. I was under the
impression that the BR20 had already been dropped.. I certainly can't find
the machine by navigating the website.

> Thanks,
> Merkan

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 4:34:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 01 May 2005 21:43:46 +0200, Merkan wrote:

> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine,
> new or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value?
> This one seems pricey.
>
> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html
>
> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available
> new that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?

Many years ago I dumped my pile of tubes: Telefunken ECC803S, EL34 etc.
From a technical point of view they had no value, but they regained value
out of a strange form of nostalgia. I think there is a posibility an
analog open reel machine will be a good investment. In audio land many
old equipment gets some value after time.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:21:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> Sure, a Martin D-45 might be worth a million bucks
> today, but nobody who has one is willing to sell it for anything
> that's been offered recently. And it's too valuable to play.

One example of the many moronic *Spinal Tap* type collectors out and about. I still
don't get the point of owning a guitar but not playing it.

I have a friend in another group whose buddy house-sat Stephen Stills house. He said
there were 3 White Falcons sitting in stands where the foam rubber on the neck
support had fused to the back of the necks. What's the point....I just don't get
it...he should of just gave the guitars away.

PapaNate
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:21:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <42762974.234B4E58@nc.rr.com> nospamagain@nc.rr.com writes:

> I have a friend in another group whose buddy house-sat Stephen Stills house. He
> said
> there were 3 White Falcons sitting in stands where the foam rubber on the neck
> support had fused to the back of the necks. What's the point....

Probably diminished the value of the instrument, too. Every year at
the NAMM show, I see collector's display cases that are beautiful
pieces of furniture, attractively lined, lighted, temperature and
humidity controlled (with an LED display prominently showing the
current, never-changing ambient conditions), locked, with a burgular
alarm, and with an alarm if they lose power for environmental control.

No fingerprints on those guitars, no sir. Real works of art. Lovely to
look at.

There are some Japanese collectors who do that sort of thing with
McIntosh amplifiers and I think I've heard of a microphone collector
over there, but in the US, while some studio gear has achieved cult
status, it's still being used. But good broadcast/studio grade analog
recorders that can be restored to perfect working condition for under
a grand are going for under a grand.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 11:07:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:117agdc49qal07e@corp.supernews.com...
> "Merkan" wrote ...
>> Would it make any sense to buy a high quality analog open reel machine,
>> new or used, as an investment? Will they increase or decrease in value?
>> This one seems pricey.
>>
>> http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20/BR-20.html
>>
>> If not open reel, is there any analog audio equipment still available new
>> that will be in demand at a good price after manufacturing stops?
>
> Suggest reading the archives on the discussion of the decline
> of analog audio tape recording and the status of the suppliers
> of the raw tape stock.


If your only interest is to REPLAY analogue tape, new tape stock shortage
isn't really a factor.

That said, anybody is welcome to buy my A77. But only becasue I just
picked a a B77 !

geoff
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 11:07:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In my opinion, analog tape recorders will continue to be used for some time by
people who prefer analog sound, as long as blank tape remains available.

But so much analog equipment has been dumped at low prices, it's highly unlikely
any of it will rise in value. Look on eBay and see what a Nagra or Sony
professional open-reel machine goes for. Not much.

J. Gordon Holt, founder of The Stereophile, bought one of the Sony pros and says
it's the best analog recorder he's ever owned.

TASCAM products are mediocre. They're no investment.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 11:08:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

William Sommerwerck <williams@nwlink.com> wrote:
>In my opinion, analog tape recorders will continue to be used for some time by
>people who prefer analog sound, as long as blank tape remains available.
>
>But so much analog equipment has been dumped at low prices, it's highly unlikely
>any of it will rise in value. Look on eBay and see what a Nagra or Sony
>professional open-reel machine goes for. Not much.

I see that equipment rising in value, just because currently it is a glut
on the market and selling for very cheaply right now.

Just like all that tube junk that people were tossing out in the seventies.
If you'd bought a stack of Fairchild 670s for a hundred bucks or so each
back then, you'd be a rich man.

>J. Gordon Holt, founder of The Stereophile, bought one of the Sony pros and says
>it's the best analog recorder he's ever owned.
>
>TASCAM products are mediocre. They're no investment.

That is true. What will be investment is going to be a mixture of top-grade
gear, and the occasional oddity that does something very unusual (like
say the Roland 808).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:51:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In general, buying recording equipment for an investment is nearly
crazy. For every oddball piece of gear that you can look back with
hindsight and say, "man, i could've bought a bunch of Fairchilds or
whatever for a song back then"....the same can be said for the stock
market, guitars, furniture, beanie babies, etc.

Sure the price of things goes up. But the value of those dollars goes
down. Economics isn't a matter of addition and subtraction. Food,
gasoline, etc...it all goes up in price. Does that mean that a loaf of
bread is "worth more" than it was 20 years ago? No. Your dollar just
doesn't go as far.

later,
m
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:58:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott is wording this correctly. In most cases, these items don't
really increase in value, they just retain their value following the
value of the dollar and some relation to new prices of similar or like
gear.
Take the U87. What did they cost when they first came out? I bet if
you did one of those calculations of the value of the dollar in that
year to this year, it'd be about equal.
This would probably apply to just about all gear. Now, if you had a
magic ball and could tell for sure which small percentage of gear will
attain cult status and the value really increases enough to warrant
hording them for years......fairchilds, certain neumann or akg mics,
58-60 les paul bursts, custom shop fender guitars, etc....then you need
to stop worrying about recording gear and either go to Vegas or buy
into the stock market where you can make some serious money.
later,
m
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 5:07:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

analog tape is going the way of the caribou. every year, less machines
alive, less machines used, less hours used, less tape used.

why invest in a standard that is dying?

my guess is that the decline-in-use curve would look something like
y=1/x. eventually 12 years from now it will be riding real low near
zero for the few kooks who are hanging on and the occasional
remastering of an old rock album into the latest digital standard.
May 3, 2005 6:58:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Papanate" <nospamagain@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:42762974.234B4E58@nc.rr.com...
>
> One example of the many moronic *Spinal Tap* type collectors out and
> about. I still
> don't get the point of owning a guitar but not playing it.
>
> PapaNate

I'll plead guilty to having a guitar that I display but never play. It's a
1962 Gibson Melody Maker.

I don't play it because it's autographed by Les Paul. Les just happened to
sign it *exactly* where the inside of your right forearm would rest while
you are playing it, so the signature would get worn off if the guitar is
played.....

But I'm not complaining!

malachi
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:58:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Malachi" <malachiLOSETHISTOREPLY@trentes.com> wrote in message
news:mkMde.513$y03.191@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Papanate" <nospamagain@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:42762974.234B4E58@nc.rr.com...
>>
>> One example of the many moronic *Spinal Tap* type collectors out and
>> about. I still
>> don't get the point of owning a guitar but not playing it.
>>
>> PapaNate
>
> I'll plead guilty to having a guitar that I display but never play.
> It's a 1962 Gibson Melody Maker.
>
> I don't play it because it's autographed by Les Paul. Les just
> happened to sign it *exactly* where the inside of your right forearm
> would rest while you are playing it, so the signature would get worn
> off if the guitar is played.....

You could make a plexiglas "clip" to protect it while playing.
May 3, 2005 7:30:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I thought about that or something similar.

Scotch tape and saran wrap might do in a pinch. :) 

Sorry, Les.

malachi

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:117f5qn6kr34nf9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Malachi" <malachiLOSETHISTOREPLY@trentes.com> wrote in message
> news:mkMde.513$y03.191@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Papanate" <nospamagain@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:42762974.234B4E58@nc.rr.com...
>>>
>>> One example of the many moronic *Spinal Tap* type collectors out and
>>> about. I still
>>> don't get the point of owning a guitar but not playing it.
>>>
>>> PapaNate
>>
>> I'll plead guilty to having a guitar that I display but never play. It's
>> a 1962 Gibson Melody Maker.
>>
>> I don't play it because it's autographed by Les Paul. Les just happened
>> to sign it *exactly* where the inside of your right forearm would rest
>> while you are playing it, so the signature would get worn off if the
>> guitar is played.....
>
> You could make a plexiglas "clip" to protect it while playing.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:29:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mwood5nospam@yahoo.com wrote:

> Economics isn't a matter of addition and subtraction. Food,
> gasoline, etc...it all goes up in price. Does that mean that a loaf of
> bread is "worth more" than it was 20 years ago? No. Your dollar just
> doesn't go as far.

Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
isn't worth anything to anybody.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:30:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

genericaudioperson@hotmail.com wrote:

why invest in a standard that is dying?

What you "invest" in are tools to get the job done. If a person makes
quality music on an analog tape machine then it was a successful
investment.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 8:54:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1115150865.347912.145760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
genericaudioperson@hotmail.com wrote:

> analog tape is going the way of the caribou. every year, less machines
> alive, less machines used, less hours used, less tape used.
>
> why invest in a standard that is dying?

Some don't have that luxury. We deal a lot with countries in Africa and Europe
and the old reel-to-reel stuff is hot! It is really hard to find new machines
for them (220-volt, you know) but it is what they prefer and have a lot of.

--
Regards,

Klay Anderson
http://www.klay.com
+801-942-8346
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:38:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote:
>mwood5nospam@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Economics isn't a matter of addition and subtraction. Food,
>> gasoline, etc...it all goes up in price. Does that mean that a loaf of
>> bread is "worth more" than it was 20 years ago? No. Your dollar just
>> doesn't go as far.
>
>Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
>isn't worth anything to anybody.

Neither is a 20-year-old Pioneer.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:38:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

>>Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
>>isn't worth anything to anybody.
>
>
> Neither is a 20-year-old Pioneer.

I bet there are plenty of old Pioneer units out there still working
fine. Especially some of the power amps, those things were built like
tanks. I think I would stay away from the reel to reels, though,
especially the auto-reverse models.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:43:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor wrote:

> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> >
> > Neither is a 20-year-old Pioneer.
>
> I bet there are plenty of old Pioneer units out there still working
> fine. Especially some of the power amps, those things were built like

> tanks. I think I would stay away from the reel to reels, though,
> especially the auto-reverse models.

I just played some open reel tapes from the 'archive'
for guests Saturday night on my Pioneer RT701.
The unit plays fine, sounds fine. (for what it is...)
The limitation of the unit is not that it's a
"20-year old Pioneer", but that it uses the
quarter-track stereo format - a consumer format
that I've always had reservations about.
The unit has held up much better than various
Akai, Teac/Tascam, Dokorder, Sony, etc 1/4 track
machines over the years.

I simply have too much material on 1/4" both
half and quarter track to toss out and making
transfers of even a small portion would take
the rest of my life. So for me keeping open reel
machines available (for both quarter and half track)
for playback is a need.
Having said that, I would never invest in
the formats if I wasn't already in deep.
YMMV

rd
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 11:02:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

True, but it doesn't matter what item you plug in to talk about. Let's
talk about anything here. An SM57. Do they cost more than they did 20
years ago? So, if you would have purchased as many as you could find
20 years ago, would they be worth more today? Yes. But, what if you
took that same money and invested in a municipal bond or anything that
rose at a rate greater than inflation? You'd have more money. That's
all I'm saying. Investing in recording gear and speculating on what
current, cheap gear is going to be worth something is moronic.
later,
m
>
> Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
> isn't worth anything to anybody.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 11:31:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mwood5nospam@yahoo.com wrote in news:1115146717.509754.171690
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Take the U87. What did they cost when they first came out? I bet if
> you did one of those calculations of the value of the dollar in that
> year to this year, it'd be about equal.
> This would probably apply to just about all gear. Now, if you had a
> magic ball and could tell for sure which small percentage of gear will
> attain cult status and the value really increases enough to warrant
> hording them for years......fairchilds, certain neumann or akg mics,
> 58-60 les paul bursts, custom shop fender guitars, etc....then you need
> to stop worrying about recording gear and either go to Vegas or buy
> into the stock market where you can make some serious money.

And you also must know when to sell. The ELAM-251 going for $50,000
dropped like a rock when Telefunken reissued it.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:43:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <3dq8ouF6ubhegU1@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:

> Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
> isn't worth anything to anybody.

Not even on eBay?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:43:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <3dq8ouF6ubhegU1@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:
>
>
>>Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
>>isn't worth anything to anybody.
>
>
> Not even on eBay?

Well, maybe if there is an imprint of the Virgin Mary on there..
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:09:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
>>>isn't worth anything to anybody.
>>
>> Neither is a 20-year-old Pioneer.
>
>I bet there are plenty of old Pioneer units out there still working
>fine. Especially some of the power amps, those things were built like
>tanks. I think I would stay away from the reel to reels, though,
>especially the auto-reverse models.

Yes, this is true. BUT, the stuff isn't worth anything, even if it is
working fine. That's the way the market works. Consumer electronics are
not durable goods any more, and haven't been for years. Pro audio gear...
well, there's some stuff you can depreciate on a 30-year schedule still.
But there's less and less every year.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:13:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Klay Anderson <klay@klay.com> wrote:
>In article <1115150865.347912.145760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> genericaudioperson@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> analog tape is going the way of the caribou. every year, less machines
>> alive, less machines used, less hours used, less tape used.
>>
>> why invest in a standard that is dying?
>
>Some don't have that luxury. We deal a lot with countries in Africa and Europe
>and the old reel-to-reel stuff is hot! It is really hard to find new machines
>for them (220-volt, you know) but it is what they prefer and have a lot of.

Where are they getting tape from? Now that Zonal is gone, is it all coming
from JAI in India?

My hope is that with the drop in the dollar, the US manufacturers will actually
be able to compete in the broadcast-grade tape marketplace.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:13:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> My hope is that with the drop in the dollar, the US manufacturers will actually
> be able to compete in the broadcast-grade tape marketplace.

Funny thing, we rent both tapes and DVD's at the video store. We get
unplayable DVD's all the time, but rarely a problem with the tapes.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:40:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mwood5nospam@yahoo.com wrote:

> That's all I'm saying. Investing in recording gear and speculating
> on what current, cheap gear is going to be worth something is
> moronic. later,

Pretty strong words. I've picked and chosen fairly carefully, and have
done very well when I have sold gear. I often buy used and sell for the
same or close, and sometimes even more, many years later. Yes, there is
a difference in "investing" and choosing gear wisely, quality stuff that
holds it's value.

Tape decks are mighty cheap right now. I wonder which would yield more a
few years from now, 5 grand spent on a well maintained Studer tape deck,
or 5 grand spent on the latest computer and converters? Actually it
doesn't take much smarts to figure out that one. Even a moron would
probably get it.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 11:39:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1115158863k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:

> In article <3dq8ouF6ubhegU1@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:
>
> > Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
> > isn't worth anything to anybody.
>
> Not even on eBay?
>

Well, if it has the image of the Virgin Mary...

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:35:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I totally agree with what you're saying. You're talking about buying
smart. Buying quality used gear that holds it's value. The original
question was talking about buying recording gear...more specifically
open reel tape decks as an investment. That's what's crazy. What you
do is on the money...you buy used...get a better price on gear than
new. Use it...make money on it...then, down the road can sell it for
what you paid or maybe even a bit more.
I do that ALL the time, but I'd hardly call it an investment strategy.
later,
m
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:10:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1115158863k@trad...
>
> In article <3dq8ouF6ubhegU1@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:
>
> > Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
> > isn't worth anything to anybody.
>
> Not even on eBay?


Only if it sprouting mold in the form of a religious icon.


> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:38:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <3dqlrmF6vkk6aU1@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:

> >>Umm, those items are not durable goods. A 20 year old loaf of bread
> >>isn't worth anything to anybody.

> > Not even on eBay?

> Well, maybe if there is an imprint of the Virgin Mary on there..

That's easily done. How many do you think we can sell, and for how
much? I'll get the oven warmed up and hit the junk shops for a statue
of The VM to make the imprints.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:38:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <3dqr1gF6urnfiU1@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:

> Tape decks are mighty cheap right now. I wonder which would yield more a
> few years from now, 5 grand spent on a well maintained Studer tape deck,
> or 5 grand spent on the latest computer and converters? Actually it
> doesn't take much smarts to figure out that one. Even a moron would
> probably get it.

Both would almost certainly be worth less than you paid for them.
You'd lose more on the converters or computers because (presumably
people will still need that function) they will be replaced by newer
and better converters and computers, while the tape deck will just get
older and less in demand. Also, the "new car depreciation" rule
applies - you take the greatest depreciation rate in the first five
minutes. The tape deck has depreciated by 80% already so it's
depreciating at a lower rate.

If you wait until there are practically no more tape decks available,
you might get more than you paid for an old tape deck that you buy
now. You may even be able to beat inflation. But then you might not
live long enough. If you want your $5,000 to grow, that's tough today.
The stock market isn't doing squat, and it's too small an amount to
invest in real estate. Find 99 partners with $5,000 and buy a house.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:38:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <3dqm2fF6vkk6aU2@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net writes:

> Funny thing, we rent both tapes and DVD's at the video store. We get
> unplayable DVD's all the time, but rarely a problem with the tapes.

This is my worry about CDs and other digital storage media. A crinkled
piece of tape is less tragic than a scratched or poorly made disk.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:38:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1115207708k@trad...
>
> In article <3dqm2fF6vkk6aU2@individual.net> crabcakes@emagic.net
> writes:
>
>> Funny thing, we rent both tapes and DVD's at the video store. We get
>> unplayable DVD's all the time, but rarely a problem with the tapes.
>
> This is my worry about CDs and other digital storage media. A crinkled
> piece of tape is less tragic than a scratched or poorly made disk.

Or generally, with any newer-generation media that packs
the same information into a physically smaller space.

It is easy enough to keep archival optical discs from getting
scratched (leave them in the package on the shelf). But I am
more concerned with the "quality of the burn" and the life-
expectancy of the dyes, etc. I've already encountered archive
CDRs of masters that have become unreadable. Pristine
physical condition, but none of my drives can read them.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 2:26:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Sensor wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> My hope is that with the drop in the dollar, the US
manufacturers
>> will actually be able to compete in the broadcast-grade
tape
>> marketplace.
>
> Funny thing, we rent both tapes and DVD's at the video
store. We get
> unplayable DVD's all the time, but rarely a problem with
the tapes.

Agreed as to the situation with DVDs. It's almost like
Blockbluster doesn't know about water.

IME unplayable DVDs are pretty easy to recover, if your
house has running water and you know how to use it with a
little soap. Try that with tapes!
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 5:50:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah, it's a good thing that analog tape "standardized" so quickly as
well in its lifecycle. (sarcasm)
1/4" mono
1/4" stereo
1/2" stereo
1/2" 4 track
1/2" 8 track
1" 8 track
1" 16 track
2" 16 track
2" 24 track

I know I missed a few, but you get the idea.....

later,
m
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:27:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

> IME unplayable DVDs are pretty easy to recover, if your
> house has running water and you know how to use it with a
> little soap. Try that with tapes!

You must have some pretty hard water...stuff that can buff out scratches
and return data to it's organic state is pretty rare.

PapaNate
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:27:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Papanate wrote:

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>>IME unplayable DVDs are pretty easy to recover, if your
>>house has running water and you know how to use it with a
>>little soap. Try that with tapes!
>
>
> You must have some pretty hard water...stuff that can buff out scratches
> and return data to it's organic state is pretty rare.
>

Arny knows his 0's and 1's. If any are missing, he just fills them in
with a green marker. ;) 
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:27:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Papanate wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> IME unplayable DVDs are pretty easy to recover, if your
>> house has running water and you know how to use it with a
>> little soap. Try that with tapes!
>
> You must have some pretty hard water...stuff that can buff
out
> scratches and return data to it's organic state is pretty
rare.

Nahh, most unplayable DVDs seen here are covered with big
greasy fingerprints.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 9:43:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

LOL....
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 12:08:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Joe Sensor" <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote in message
>> Not even on eBay?
>
> Well, maybe if there is an imprint of the Virgin Mary on there..

I wiped my arse the other day, and I could swear an image of the sweet
virgin appeared on the bog-paper. I wonder how much ....


geoff
!