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Oktava update?

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Anonymous
May 8, 2005 7:26:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What is the current situation with the distribution of Oktava mics?

Their one time distributor A&F Mckay Audio Limited is listed on
www.ukdata.com as in liquidation. Their web site has dissapeared.

Oktava themselves seem very much in business, and the Russian language site
oktava.tula.net lists several interesting new models I've not seen before:
the tube model MKL4000, and the MKL319A, which looks like a tube version of
the 319 condenser.

The best source of the mics here in Europe seems to be oktava-online who
only sell on ebay, but display authorized dealer credentials on their web
site, or the German mail order giant, Thomann. I recently bought a pair of
ML012s from Thomann (perfectly good quality) and noticed the were both
labeled ASM - formerly a sign they were sourced from McKay.

After a recent bid for an Oktava-online auction on Ebay I received a weird
legalese letter from Ebay about trade mark infringement in the UK. All very
interesting since I don't live there, I only bid on the mic, I didn't even
win it.

Anyone have the facts?

A

More about : oktava update

Anonymous
May 8, 2005 7:26:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>What is the current situation with the distribution of Oktava mics?
>
>Their one time distributor A&F Mckay Audio Limited is listed on
>www.ukdata.com as in liquidation. Their web site has dissapeared.

I had not heard this, but I would not be surprised if they had
litigated themselves into bankruptcy. They were definitely around
six months ago, though, but we've been having trouble getting information
out of them for a while.

>Oktava themselves seem very much in business, and the Russian language site
>oktava.tula.net lists several interesting new models I've not seen before:
>the tube model MKL4000, and the MKL319A, which looks like a tube version of
>the 319 condenser.

Yes. I have not tried the MKL4000, but the MKL319A still has all of the
319 resonance problems.

>The best source of the mics here in Europe seems to be oktava-online who
>only sell on ebay, but display authorized dealer credentials on their web
>site, or the German mail order giant, Thomann. I recently bought a pair of
>ML012s from Thomann (perfectly good quality) and noticed the were both
>labeled ASM - formerly a sign they were sourced from McKay.

I do not know oktava-online. I know that Vladimir, who used to post here
now and then, will ship mikes directly from Russia and seems to be a good
fellow.

In the US, the main vendor of the Oktava mikes was Guitar Center, which
was getting them from McKay. As far as I can tell, GC seemed to be getting
worse than normal production, so McKay may have been using them as a dumping
ground as well. In any event, GC went for about six months without any
new Oktava mikes and claimed a "factory shortage." They now have most of
the usual models back in stock, so I am assuming that they are now sourcing
them from some place other than McKay. All of this is just surmise.

>After a recent bid for an Oktava-online auction on Ebay I received a weird
>legalese letter from Ebay about trade mark infringement in the UK. All very
>interesting since I don't live there, I only bid on the mic, I didn't even
>win it.

Yes, probably because one of the suits that McKey brought against Ebay.
The guys at McKay like to threaten lawsuits all the time. They claim
exclusive use to the name in the UK, but they are unable to do so in the
US because other folks got there first. (The Sound Room even managed to
grab up oktava.com before they had a chance... and they threatened to sue
of course.)
--scott
>
>Anyone have the facts?
>
>A


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 7:26:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

how restocked is guitar center on oktava mics? i tried buying the
mk012s from them a couple months ago and they had only a handful of
matched pairs in the entire chain. i wasnt prepared to buy them
without hearing them first so i found a store near me that had one
single mic left and it looked just like the one on the counterfeit site
and didnt pass signal. i picked up nt-5's.

jake
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Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:38:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

>>Their one time distributor A&F Mckay Audio Limited is listed on
>>www.ukdata.com as in liquidation. Their web site has dissapeared.
>
> I had not heard this, but I would not be surprised if they had
> litigated themselves into bankruptcy. They were definitely around
> six months ago, though, but we've been having trouble getting information
> out of them for a while.

Hi Scott, here is the link:

http://www.ukdata.com/creditreports/viewCompanyDetails....

But this gets stranger and stranger, I've been surfing since I posted and
found this story about fake Chinese Oktavas mk012s. Is this already well
known here? Maybe its old news.

http://debris.com/journal/1274

here is the link to the official Oktava web site fake warning

http://oktava.tula.net/fake/

Well downer!

Looks like I'm going to be returning my pair of MK012s to the mail order
supplier in Germany as they look identical to the fakes on the Oktava site
and totally unlike the genuine photos. They also lack the 10db pad. I
thought they sounded a bit harsh in the upper mids, which I associate low
end Chinese made capsules.

My pair didn't come from Oktava online or Oktava USA who I'm now pretty
convinced are offical distributers. So much for my wisdom in buying from a
"name" company. Shame I found this out 4 days after the easy return period
expired.

> (The Sound Room even managed to
> grab up oktava.com before they had a chance... and they threatened to sue
> of course.)

Hmmm. Sounds like McKay were totally out of their depth. I like Oktavas, I
have a MKL2500 and a pair of modified ML52s. I think the manufacturer
deserves better than this.

Aiden
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:38:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The link to :

http://oktava.tula.net/fake

is pretty interesting. I bought a pair (not matched) of MK012's from GC in
September 2001. They came in the gray plastic (Russian) boxes, each one has
all three capsules, plus the -10dB pad, neither has a TEF, both had the
cheap satin finish metal (Russian) mic clasp, Both are badged with Oktava
and A.S.M. and neither has a serial # so in this respect they are exactly
like the pictured Chinese mic, but both have the white screws like the
Russian mic, both have a silver sputtered contact dimple like the Russian
mic, both have a silver sputtered contact pin like the Russian mic and they
both sound extremely good. Since I only paid $100.00 each for them at the
time, I was pretty shocked. It appears that due to their age and other
characteristics, they may be Russian built with shells similar to the ones
represented as being Chinese knockoffs. I've never really had a problem with
their sonics, so considering what I paid and what I got for the $$$, I guess
it's a non-issue with me.

DJ

"Aiden Humphreys" <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 5lbpv$mmu$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> >>Their one time distributor A&F Mckay Audio Limited is listed on
> >>www.ukdata.com as in liquidation. Their web site has dissapeared.
> >
> > I had not heard this, but I would not be surprised if they had
> > litigated themselves into bankruptcy. They were definitely around
> > six months ago, though, but we've been having trouble getting
information
> > out of them for a while.
>
> Hi Scott, here is the link:
>
>
http://www.ukdata.com/creditreports/viewCompanyDetails....
>
> But this gets stranger and stranger, I've been surfing since I posted and
> found this story about fake Chinese Oktavas mk012s. Is this already well
> known here? Maybe its old news.
>
> http://debris.com/journal/1274
>
> here is the link to the official Oktava web site fake warning
>
> http://oktava.tula.net/fake/
>
> Well downer!
>
> Looks like I'm going to be returning my pair of MK012s to the mail order
> supplier in Germany as they look identical to the fakes on the Oktava site
> and totally unlike the genuine photos. They also lack the 10db pad. I
> thought they sounded a bit harsh in the upper mids, which I associate low
> end Chinese made capsules.
>
> My pair didn't come from Oktava online or Oktava USA who I'm now pretty
> convinced are offical distributers. So much for my wisdom in buying from a
> "name" company. Shame I found this out 4 days after the easy return period
> expired.
>
> > (The Sound Room even managed to
> > grab up oktava.com before they had a chance... and they threatened to
sue
> > of course.)
>
> Hmmm. Sounds like McKay were totally out of their depth. I like Oktavas, I
> have a MKL2500 and a pair of modified ML52s. I think the manufacturer
> deserves better than this.
>
> Aiden
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:02:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> But this gets stranger and stranger, I've been surfing since I posted and
> found this story about fake Chinese Oktavas mk012s. Is this already well
> known here? Maybe its old news.
>
> http://debris.com/journal/1274
>
> here is the link to the official Oktava web site fake warning
>
> http://oktava.tula.net/fake/
>
> Well downer!
>
> Looks like I'm going to be returning my pair of MK012s to the mail order
> supplier in Germany as they look identical to the fakes on the Oktava site
> and totally unlike the genuine photos.

Would that be Thomanns? They sell Oktava with pictures matching the
"original", but are "new revised series". I'm interested in those
Oktavas. I sincerely doubt Thomanns would knowingly mislead its
customers.

So where is the real Oktava website? If you go to oktava.tula.net as you
suggest you end up in a german site (http://www.oktava-online.de/), not
a russian site. How do you know that this is the real Oktava site? How
do we know what site is the russian Oktava site? How does one get in
direct contact with the russian manufacturer without using their foreign
distributors?

It could also be that Oktava actually did revise their mics... How do we
know?

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:16:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aiden Humphreys wrote:
>
> here is the link to the official Oktava web site fake warning
>
> http://oktava.tula.net/fake/
>

Eek! Just saw this and checked out my five.

2 of them (the first pair I bought) are marked Oktava MC-012 (ASM), and
have no serial number on them. They didn't come with any documents
(certainly not a plot!). But they did come with pads, and the proper
clip, and have silver screws etc..

So which is it? They seem to have properties of both the originals and
the 'fakes'!

Cheers,
Ben.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:16:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ben Bayliss" <usenet@b3nbay|iss.c0.uk> wrote in message
news:HrGdnUuuuZRQHOPfRVnysw@pipex.net...
> Aiden Humphreys wrote:
> >
> > here is the link to the official Oktava web site fake warning
> >
> > http://oktava.tula.net/fake/
> >
>
> Eek! Just saw this and checked out my five.
>
> 2 of them (the first pair I bought) are marked Oktava MC-012 (ASM), and
> have no serial number on them. They didn't come with any documents
> (certainly not a plot!). But they did come with pads, and the proper
> clip, and have silver screws etc..
>
> So which is it? They seem to have properties of both the originals and
> the 'fakes'!

Mine are the same, and I bought them from GC some years ago so I'm pretty
confident that they are the real thing. They sound good, so I don't care
anyway.

Sean
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:47:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lars Farm wrote:

> Would that be Thomanns? They sell Oktava with pictures matching the
> "original", but are "new revised series". I'm interested in those
> Oktavainfringementttely doubt Thomanns would knowingly mislead its
> customers.

I'd rather not mention the supplier until I phone them in the morning. I
think you can figure it out.

In any case my understanding of the allegations is not that retailers are
misleading their customers, but rather the official distributor started
delivering mics under the transliterated trade name Oktava, a trademark
which he owned. There mics were actually not manufactured by the Russian
OktaBa company by rather someone in China. How was the retailer to know the
source of manufacture if they came through the official distributor?

Similarly how are we to know if the distributor did something wrong? There
were plenty of complaints about QA. May be his contract allowed him to
offshore manufacture of parts of the mic in order to ensure quality.

> So where is the real Oktava website?
> If you go to oktava.tula.net as you
> suggest you end up in a german site (http://www.oktava-online.de/), not
> a russian site. How do you know that this is the real Oktava site?

Goto

www.oktava.tula.net

and click on the Russian links. This was always the address of the Oktava
site AFAIK. I can't read much Russian but enough to figure out Novoste,
Produktua, Kontakt, Historea and so on. Looks pretty genuine to me.

> do we know what site is the russian Oktava site? How does one get in
> direct contact with the russian manufacturer without using their foreign
> distributors?
>
> It could also be that Oktava actually did revise their mics... How do we
> know?

Good point. Well, "Kohtaktbl" (Contact) leads to their email address and
phone number. You could ask them in English and see if they reply.

But to be honest, I believe them. A few weeks ago I saw the notice on their
site about breaking their relationship with Oktava Ltd (McKay I guess) due
to copyright infringment, and now they have a page on the site showing the
copies. My mikes are def. those cited as copies and they are branded with
the Oktava ASM marks indicating an origin of McKay Audio. Conclusive for
me.

Similarly Oktava USA have this on their site ( www.oktavausa.com )

>>We carry the complete line of genuine Oktava microphones. Don't be fooled
by the Chinese Manufactured Nock-Offs being passed off as "real" Oktava
Microphones by a large national music store chain!<<

How does it look to you? I would certainly like to hear Mr McKay's version
of events.

A
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:47:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> How does it look to you? I

.... interesting ... that's how it looks to me! I looked at
oktava.tula.net english and russian (no I don't speak russian) and can't
find any link to the http://oktava.tula.net/fake/ page. It's clearly
there, but how was it found?

> would certainly like to hear Mr McKay's version of events.

I'm more interested in what Oktava themselfs have to say - that is the
russian manufacurer not any distributer or other that consider the name
theirs regardless of what rights they think they have or even have...

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:47:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lars Farm wrote:

> ... interesting ... that's how it looks to me! I looked at
> oktava.tula.net english and russian (no I don't speak russian) and can't
> find any link to the http://oktava.tula.net/fake/ page. It's clearly
> there, but how was it found?

The matched pair I purchased four years ago from, and
discussed considerably with, Taylor Johnson, owner of Sound
Room, are printed the same as the "fakes" shown at that
site, but have everything else like the "real deal" photos.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:53:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Animix wrote:

> the cheap satin finish metal (Russian) mic clasp, Both are badged with
> Oktava and A.S.M. and neither has a serial # so in this respect they are
> exactly like the pictured Chinese mic,

Does it say Oktava or OktaBa on the mic?

I'd be pretty confident you have the genuine article from your description
of the box etc. My Oktava mics are identical in every respect to the
Chinese "fakes" in the picture, down to the screws, rubber clasp, missing
pad and block polythene box.

A
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:53:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The name is spelled Oktava on mine.

DJ

"Aiden Humphreys" <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 5lu7o$b9c$05$1@news.t-online.com...
> Animix wrote:
>
> > the cheap satin finish metal (Russian) mic clasp, Both are badged with
> > Oktava and A.S.M. and neither has a serial # so in this respect they are
> > exactly like the pictured Chinese mic,
>
> Does it say Oktava or OktaBa on the mic?
>
> I'd be pretty confident you have the genuine article from your description
> of the box etc. My Oktava mics are identical in every respect to the
> Chinese "fakes" in the picture, down to the screws, rubber clasp, missing
> pad and block polythene box.
>
> A
>
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 3:34:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain wrote:
>
>
> Lars Farm wrote:
>
>> ... interesting ... that's how it looks to me! I looked at
>> oktava.tula.net english and russian (no I don't speak russian) and can't
>> find any link to the http://oktava.tula.net/fake/ page. It's clearly
>> there, but how was it found?
>
>
> The matched pair I purchased four years ago from, and discussed
> considerably with, Taylor Johnson, owner of Sound Room, are printed the
> same as the "fakes" shown at that site, but have everything else like
> the "real deal" photos.

Oops. They are also missing the stamped serial number.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 11:54:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain wrote:


> Oops. They are also missing the stamped serial number.


Disposable microphones, not all that important.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:29:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <d5lnvl014s2@enews2.newsguy.com>,
"Animix" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:

> The link to :
>
> http://oktava.tula.net/fake
>
> is pretty interesting. I bought a pair (not matched) of MK012's from GC in
> September 2001. They came in the gray plastic (Russian) boxes, each one has
> all three capsules, plus the -10dB pad, neither has a TEF, both had the
> cheap satin finish metal (Russian) mic clasp, Both are badged with Oktava
> and A.S.M. and neither has a serial # so in this respect they are exactly
> like the pictured Chinese mic, but both have the white screws like the
> Russian mic, both have a silver sputtered contact dimple like the Russian
> mic, both have a silver sputtered contact pin like the Russian mic and they
> both sound extremely good.

This is going to get stranger and stranger. I got mine used, so I don't
know where they were from originally. I've had them for several years
now and are as described above, but in black boxes, of the russian
style. One clip was missing of the pair.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:48:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Lars Farm wrote:
>
> > doubt they would knowingly mislead its
> > customers.
>
> I'd rather not mention the supplier until I phone them in the morning. I
> think you can figure it out.

Well, I called them. I don't speak german and the person in the other
end does not speak swedish so it had to be in some kind of english with
all the potential for confusion that brings...

They have recently become aware of the situation. The MK012 they sell is
from "the english guys", "clearly marked as MKII" and "new and
revised"... He confirms that they are NOT manufactured in russia. They
are from China. The english firm claims the name Oktava is theirs so
i'ts all right... The russian manufacturer has recently made them aware
of the conflict. They are in contact with the Russian firm trying to
find a solution. We'll see what happens. As of right now they think they
are not missleading anyone...

I've tried to call the russian telefone numbers on their web site, but
got no reply (almost thankfully i don't speak russian either...:-). I
tried e-mail, no reply...

Anyway, I have confirmation that the MK012 sold there TODAY are indeed
chineese by way of the english Oktava-nameholder and have nothing to do
with the russian microphone manufacturer.

I asked them to make their advertising clearer on this point...

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:28:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lars Farm" <see.bottom.of.page@farm.se> wrote in message
news:1gwao0v.1wfhh062g51lkN%see.bottom.of.page@farm.se...
> Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Lars Farm wrote:
> >
> > > doubt they would knowingly mislead its
> > > customers.
> >
> > I'd rather not mention the supplier until I phone them in the morning. I
> > think you can figure it out.
>
> Well, I called them. I don't speak german and the person in the other
> end does not speak swedish so it had to be in some kind of english with
> all the potential for confusion that brings...
>
> They have recently become aware of the situation. The MK012 they sell is
> from "the english guys", "clearly marked as MKII" and "new and
> revised"... He confirms that they are NOT manufactured in russia. They
> are from China. The english firm claims the name Oktava is theirs so
> i'ts all right... The russian manufacturer has recently made them aware
> of the conflict. They are in contact with the Russian firm trying to
> find a solution. We'll see what happens. As of right now they think they
> are not missleading anyone...
>
> I've tried to call the russian telefone numbers on their web site, but
> got no reply (almost thankfully i don't speak russian either...:-). I
> tried e-mail, no reply...
>
> Anyway, I have confirmation that the MK012 sold there TODAY are indeed
> chineese by way of the english Oktava-nameholder and have nothing to do
> with the russian microphone manufacturer.
>
> I asked them to make their advertising clearer on this point...
>
> Lars


Thanks Lars, for investigating and clarifying matters. A lot of people
around here gravitate towards Thomann when it comes to purchase of the
equipment.

Predrag
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:52:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lars Farm in <1gwao0v.1wfhh062g51lkN%see.bottom.of.page@farm.se>:

[about Thomann]
>They have recently become aware of the situation. The MK012 they sell is
>from "the english guys", "clearly marked as MKII" and "new and
>revised"... He confirms that they are NOT manufactured in russia. They
>are from China. The english firm claims the name Oktava is theirs so
>i'ts all right... The russian manufacturer has recently made them aware
>of the conflict. They are in contact with the Russian firm trying to
>find a solution. We'll see what happens. As of right now they think they
>are not missleading anyone...
[...]

Yes they do mislead their customers. Their German product description on
the page for the "Oktava MK 012-01 MKII matched pair" [1] begins with
the words: "Diese Mikrofone aus Russland ...", IOW "These microphones
from Russia ..."

If they advertise their Oktavas as "microphones from Russia" while being
aware of the fact that these microphones are in fact Chinese imitations,
then they are intentionally misleading their customers. Simple as that.

>I asked them to make their advertising clearer on this point...

I think that, if they need to be *asked* to not deceive the public,
they're beyond redemption anyway. It's too sad really; until now
I believed Thomann to be reputable.

SM

[1] http://www.thomann.de/artikel-165104.html
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:52:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Segensreich Maschinerich <NOSPAMreallyNOT@gmx.net> wrote:

> I think that, if they need to be *asked* to not deceive the public,

Here it seems they were victims too. What matters most is how they
handle the situation from here on.

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 8:57:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Aiden Humphreys" <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 5lbpv$mmu$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> Looks like I'm going to be returning my pair of MK012s to the mail order
> supplier in Germany as they look identical to the fakes on the Oktava site
> and totally unlike the genuine photos. They also lack the 10db pad. I
> thought they sounded a bit harsh in the upper mids, which I associate low
> end Chinese made capsules.
>
> My pair didn't come from Oktava online or Oktava USA who I'm now pretty
> convinced are offical distributers. So much for my wisdom in buying from a
> "name" company. Shame I found this out 4 days after the easy return period
> expired.

I am *so* glad I found this thread. I ordered a couple of "MK012's" from
Guitar Center, since they're listed in the current sale ad. The ad has the
picture of the mic with the metal clip and specifies a -10db pad comes with
the mic. Well, when I showed up today to pick them up, the guy pulled out
two plastic mic carriers. We opened them up and just like indicated on the
site, a plastic clip, no pad, no documentation.

I'm curious about something. I've seen that these mics are referred to as
MK's *and* MC's, but are the MK's the only Russian made version? I really
want to get a pair of these mics, but I can't dish out the money I see them
going for on ebay and sound room.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:37:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lars Farm wrote:

> Anyway, I have confirmation that the MK012 sold there TODAY are indeed
> chineese by way of the english Oktava-nameholder and have nothing to do
> with the russian microphone manufacturer.

I can back this up. I spoke with Thomann this morning and the story was the
same, the mics are from China and distributed through a British company ( I
guess they bought a consignment from A&F McKay as part of their stock
liquidation).

But the good news was they agreed to take mine back and refund me. I'm happy
with that solution and I think it does Thomann credit.

A
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:37:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Aiden Humphreys" <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 5oam1$asg$02$1@news.t-online.com...
> I can back this up. I spoke with Thomann this morning and the story was
the
> same, the mics are from China and distributed through a British company
( I
> guess they bought a consignment from A&F McKay as part of their stock
> liquidation).

Out of curiosity, are these Chinese mics inferior, or is it that they're
made in China that makes them undesirable?

--
Bob

http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:37:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>"Aiden Humphreys" <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> I can back this up. I spoke with Thomann this morning and the story was
>the
>> same, the mics are from China and distributed through a British company
>( I
>> guess they bought a consignment from A&F McKay as part of their stock
>> liquidation).
>
>Out of curiosity, are these Chinese mics inferior, or is it that they're
>made in China that makes them undesirable?

I can say that the Oktava guys know at least two things about consistent
tensioning of the diaphragm that none of the Chinese factories have shown
signs of knowing. Not that their production consistency seems much
better.

I would be VERY curious what this British company was, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:37:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:427fc244$0$24171$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...

> The Oktava MK012 capsules are actually quite nice. Too bad the head amps
> gave these mics such a bad reputation...

I would assume you're speaking of the Russian built modules, not the so
called counterfeits?

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:40:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> writes:

> "Aiden Humphreys" <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:D 5lbpv$mmu$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> > Looks like I'm going to be returning my pair of MK012s to the mail order
> > supplier in Germany as they look identical to the fakes on the Oktava site
> > and totally unlike the genuine photos. They also lack the 10db pad. I
> > thought they sounded a bit harsh in the upper mids, which I associate low
> > end Chinese made capsules.
> >
> > My pair didn't come from Oktava online or Oktava USA who I'm now pretty
> > convinced are offical distributers. So much for my wisdom in buying from a
> > "name" company. Shame I found this out 4 days after the easy return period
> > expired.
>
> I am *so* glad I found this thread. I ordered a couple of "MK012's" from
> Guitar Center, since they're listed in the current sale ad. The ad has the
> picture of the mic with the metal clip and specifies a -10db pad comes with
> the mic. Well, when I showed up today to pick them up, the guy pulled out
> two plastic mic carriers. We opened them up and just like indicated on the
> site, a plastic clip, no pad, no documentation.
>
> I'm curious about something. I've seen that these mics are referred to as
> MK's *and* MC's, but are the MK's the only Russian made version? I really
> want to get a pair of these mics, but I can't dish out the money I see them
> going for on ebay and sound room.
>
> --
> http://www.bobsavage.net

There must be more to this story, right? It just seems strange that a Chinese
company would *independently* clone such a niche product. Popular consumer
products, yes, but these are not even normal mics, they have an unusual
appearance. I'm inclined to believe it is some kind of "inside" job, but
noone is admitting to it, right? Like perhaps someone is getting extra casing
from the Russian factory and inserting Chinese electronics/caps in them?

Richard
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:40:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<Mannr@uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message news:877ji7q5g2.fsf@uwaterloo.ca...
> There must be more to this story, right? It just seems strange that a
Chinese
> company would *independently* clone such a niche product. Popular
consumer
> products, yes, but these are not even normal mics, they have an unusual
> appearance. I'm inclined to believe it is some kind of "inside" job, but
> noone is admitting to it, right? Like perhaps someone is getting extra
casing
> from the Russian factory and inserting Chinese electronics/caps in them?

It's certainly quite odd, and it does seem there must be more to the story.
Now I'm sitting here with a $200 (plus or minus $50) budget, and needing
some decent overhead micas. If I can't find a couple Octava's, I may end up
with the Studio Projects C4's, or look into the AT 2020's that TY
recommended.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:07:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mannr@uwaterloo.ca wrote:

>
> There must be more to this story, right? It just seems strange that a
> Chinese
> company would *independently* clone such a niche product. Popular
> consumer products, yes, but these are not even normal mics, they have an
> unusual
> appearance. I'm inclined to believe it is some kind of "inside" job, but
> noone is admitting to it, right? Like perhaps someone is getting extra
> casing from the Russian factory and inserting Chinese electronics/caps in
> them?

Lets keep poor OktaBa Russia's name clean since they seem to be the victims
here. Take a read of the post at

http://debris.com/journal/1274

the implication is that the former distributor contracted a Chinese firm to
build clone mics and then marketed them under his brand Oktava without
OktaBa (Russia) approval.

Also, these are no mix and match mic. From the case finish I would judge
that the entire mic including caps and body were manufactured at the same
place.

OktaBa are not involved, indeed their "how to spot a fake" web page
identified what was going on.

A.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:07:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> writes:

> Mannr@uwaterloo.ca wrote:
>
> >
> > There must be more to this story, right? It just seems strange that a
> > Chinese
> > company would *independently* clone such a niche product. Popular
> > consumer products, yes, but these are not even normal mics, they have an
> > unusual
> > appearance. I'm inclined to believe it is some kind of "inside" job, but
> > noone is admitting to it, right? Like perhaps someone is getting extra
> > casing from the Russian factory and inserting Chinese electronics/caps in
> > them?
>
> Lets keep poor OktaBa Russia's name clean since they seem to be the victims
> here. Take a read of the post at
>
> http://debris.com/journal/1274
>
> the implication is that the former distributor contracted a Chinese firm to
> build clone mics and then marketed them under his brand Oktava without
> OktaBa (Russia) approval.
>
> Also, these are no mix and match mic. From the case finish I would judge
> that the entire mic including caps and body were manufactured at the same
> place.
>
> OktaBa are not involved, indeed their "how to spot a fake" web page
> identified what was going on.
>
> A.

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

Richard
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:20:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:

> "JP Gerard" wrote ...
>> Chinese small diphragm capsules are pretty bad.

> Are we just assuming that the Chinese clones are better/worse than
> the Russian ones? than the (selected) SoundRoom ones?

I'll put up an A/B WAV link in a few days when my replacements arrive. To be
honest, my Chinese mics sound quite nice, detailed, low noise, a tad too
bright in the upper mids but certainly OK for the money, just not what I
thought I was buying.

A
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:48:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BBUfe.5278$Fa1.2337@fed1read02> bsavage@blacoxbla.net writes:

> It's certainly quite odd, and it does seem there must be more to the story.
> Now I'm sitting here with a $200 (plus or minus $50) budget, and needing
> some decent overhead micas. If I can't find a couple Octava's, I may end up
> with the Studio Projects C4's, or look into the AT 2020's that TY
> recommended.

Well, has anyone determined that the supposed Chinese copies of the
Oktava mics are really bad? I can't see a problem with a plastic
holder rather than a metal one, and no documentation (how much do you
need?).

Sorry if I missed anything that wasn't just scandal material here.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:48:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1115693809k@trad...
> Well, has anyone determined that the supposed Chinese copies of the
> Oktava mics are really bad? I can't see a problem with a plastic
> holder rather than a metal one, and no documentation (how much do you
> need?).

It would be nice to at least get the pad and a graph with the mic. The
metal clip would also be a nice "bonus."

> Sorry if I missed anything that wasn't just scandal material here.

No need to apologize, if you're that interested, read through the thread
again.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:01:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley <richard.7.crowley@intel.com> wrote:
>So this is the only posting in the thread that said anything about the
>quality of the mics of Chinese vs Russian origin.
>
>Are we just assuming that the Chinese clones are better/worse than
>the Russian ones? than the (selected) SoundRoom ones?

Yes, but I think that is a safe assumption. Especially if A&S McKay
was responsible for the Chinese production.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:09:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Savage <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote:
>"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>> Well, has anyone determined that the supposed Chinese copies of the
>> Oktava mics are really bad? I can't see a problem with a plastic
>> holder rather than a metal one, and no documentation (how much do you
>> need?).
>
>It would be nice to at least get the pad and a graph with the mic. The
>metal clip would also be a nice "bonus."

I'll send you all the graphs you want.

One Chinese factory just picks a microphone, runs a plot on it, and then
sends xerox copies out with each production mike.

As long as you don't need them to be accurate, it's very easy to send
all the measurements you want out.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:09:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 5qfar$4v0$1@panix2.panix.com...
> I'll send you all the graphs you want.

Come on Scott, you know what I mean.

> One Chinese factory just picks a microphone, runs a plot on it, and then
> sends xerox copies out with each production mike.

What factory, and what brand mics uses the factory?

> As long as you don't need them to be accurate, it's very easy to send
> all the measurements you want out.

Obviously.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:08:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

These sound identical to the ones I bought in 2001. I'm pretty sure mine are
Russian made as the Chinese were just getting tooled up back then so I doubt
seriously they were copying cheap Russian mics. Even if they are Chinese, if
you got them at a good price and they sound good, is it really going to be
worth the hassle to worry about this?

DJ

"Ben Bayliss" <usenet@b3nbay|iss.c0.uk> wrote in message
news:HrGdnUuuuZRQHOPfRVnysw@pipex.net...
> Aiden Humphreys wrote:
> >
> > here is the link to the official Oktava web site fake warning
> >
> > http://oktava.tula.net/fake/
> >
>
> Eek! Just saw this and checked out my five.
>
> 2 of them (the first pair I bought) are marked Oktava MC-012 (ASM), and
> have no serial number on them. They didn't come with any documents
> (certainly not a plot!). But they did come with pads, and the proper
> clip, and have silver screws etc..
>
> So which is it? They seem to have properties of both the originals and
> the 'fakes'!
>
> Cheers,
> Ben.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:08:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Animix" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:D 5r4bc02p4t@enews2.newsguy.com...
Even if they are Chinese, if
> you got them at a good price and they sound good, is it really going to be
> worth the hassle to worry about this?

I'm wondering this myself, except for the missing -10db pad.


--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:07:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ben Bayliss <usenet@b3nbay|iss.c0.uk> wrote:
>
>Eek! Just saw this and checked out my five.
>
>2 of them (the first pair I bought) are marked Oktava MC-012 (ASM), and
>have no serial number on them. They didn't come with any documents
>(certainly not a plot!). But they did come with pads, and the proper
>clip, and have silver screws etc..
>
>So which is it? They seem to have properties of both the originals and
>the 'fakes'!

I think you are okay if the contacts look right. McKay did not always
supply the mikes with the proper documentation and not all the McKay
mikes had serial numbers.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <d5oam1$asg$02$1@news.t-online.com>,
Aiden Humphreys <ahumphr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Lars Farm wrote:
>
>> Anyway, I have confirmation that the MK012 sold there TODAY are indeed
>> chineese by way of the english Oktava-nameholder and have nothing to do
>> with the russian microphone manufacturer.
>
>I can back this up. I spoke with Thomann this morning and the story was the
>same, the mics are from China and distributed through a British company ( I
>guess they bought a consignment from A&F McKay as part of their stock
>liquidation).

WHAT IS this British company? Does ANYONE have any documentation?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:35:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well the pad is might handy, and so are the various capsules. I use my pair
with the pad and hypercardioid capsules for micing hi hats and snare
bottoms.

DJ

"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote in message
news:lp9ge.7715$Fa1.4504@fed1read02...
> "Animix" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:D 5r4bc02p4t@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Even if they are Chinese, if
> > you got them at a good price and they sound good, is it really going to
be
> > worth the hassle to worry about this?
>
> I'm wondering this myself, except for the missing -10db pad.
>
>
> --
> http://www.bobsavage.net
>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:37:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Bs3ge.7309$Fa1.1128@fed1read02> bsavage@blacoxbla.net writes:

> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:D 5qfar$4v0$1@panix2.panix.com...
> > I'll send you all the graphs you want.
>
> Come on Scott, you know what I mean.

Really, of how much value is a graph, even if it's a real one? Are you
going to pick through graphs at the store, or are you going to listen
to mics? (or neither). Lots of mics come without frequency response
plots and they're perfectly usable mics. Ask Shure for a plot for an
SM57 and they'll point you to the generic one on the web page. Those
plots don't show tolerances from the line, but I would assume that
mics that exceed whatever tolerances are established internally don't
leave the factory.

A generic plot showing the designed response will give you an idea of
what a mic is good for (or bad for) but an individalized plot is
rarely useful in selecting a mic. It might be somewhat useful for
matching a pair, but that's best done by listening as well.





--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:37:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1115736437k@trad...

> Really, of how much value is a graph, even if it's a real one?... It might
be somewhat useful for
> matching a pair, but that's best done by listening as well.

I figure it's a good starting point, as you seem to infer at the end of your
post.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:28:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Animix <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Well the pad is might handy, and so are the various capsules. I use
my pair
> >with the pad and hypercardioid capsules for micing hi hats and snare
> >bottoms.
>
> Yes, but the pad totally changes the sound of the mike, and not for
the
> better.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Why is that Scott? I've noticed it too. Could the pad benefit from a
cap swap? I have rarely if ever needed the pad (except for the
occasional experiment of close micing a tom with one) in the past half
decade or so...but still, is this inherent of all capacitive pads in
the high-impedance section, ie: a fault with this common design, or
just a poorly chosen cap in the case of the oktava 012's?
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:36:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris Cavell" <chriscavell@cavellstudios.com> wrote in message
news:1115767681.281621.177390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Why is that Scott? I've noticed it too. Could the pad benefit from a
> cap swap? I have rarely if ever needed the pad (except for the
> occasional experiment of close micing a tom with one) in the past half
> decade or so...but still, is this inherent of all capacitive pads in
> the high-impedance section, ie: a fault with this common design, or
> just a poorly chosen cap in the case of the oktava 012's?

This brings up a question for me. Is using the pad on the mic different
than just using a pad on the mic pre? Does the pad eliminate clipping of
the mic itself?

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yes, they're different. The pad builtin to most microphones is usually
a capacitor in parralel with the condenser element switched in or out
of the circuit. The pad in a mic pre, or an in-line pad, is usually
little more than a few resistors configured as a voltage divider. A
pad builtin to the mic can potentially prevent clipping of the
microphone's internal electronics, which the pad on your pre cannot do.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:59:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Savage" <bsavage@blacoxbla.net> wrote in message
news:BBUfe.5278$Fa1.2337@fed1read02...
> <Mannr@uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message news:877ji7q5g2.fsf@uwaterloo.ca...
>> There must be more to this story, right? It just seems strange that a
> Chinese
>> company would *independently* clone such a niche product. Popular
> consumer
>> products, yes, but these are not even normal mics, they have an unusual
>> appearance. I'm inclined to believe it is some kind of "inside" job, but
>> noone is admitting to it, right? Like perhaps someone is getting extra
> casing
>> from the Russian factory and inserting Chinese electronics/caps in them?
>
> It's certainly quite odd, and it does seem there must be more to the
> story.
> Now I'm sitting here with a $200 (plus or minus $50) budget, and needing
> some decent overhead micas. If I can't find a couple Octava's, I may end
> up
> with the Studio Projects C4's, or look into the AT 2020's that TY
> recommended.


Soundroom still does them. Cheaper ones are likely to be dodgy wherever
they were made.

Russian ones can be MC or MK.

If there really are MC(hino)-012as, I wonder if the preamps are actuallly
better than the Ruskie ones ?!!

geoff
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:36:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris Cavell" <chriscavell@cavellstudios.com> wrote in message
news:1115769371.904545.83320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Yes, they're different. The pad builtin to most microphones is usually
> a capacitor in parralel with the condenser element switched in or out
> of the circuit. The pad in a mic pre, or an in-line pad, is usually
> little more than a few resistors configured as a voltage divider. A
> pad builtin to the mic can potentially prevent clipping of the
> microphone's internal electronics, which the pad on your pre cannot do.

That's what I figured, thanks for the info!

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Animix <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>These sound identical to the ones I bought in 2001. I'm pretty sure mine are
>Russian made as the Chinese were just getting tooled up back then so I doubt
>seriously they were copying cheap Russian mics. Even if they are Chinese, if
>you got them at a good price and they sound good, is it really going to be
>worth the hassle to worry about this?

Yes, I think it will be very much worth the hassle to worry about it.
I've spent my morning making a few phone calls and the story gets more
and more interesting every minute.

If the contacts look the same as the ones in the photo, you're okay.

As far as I know, _all_ of the microphones sold since January or so by
GC are the Chinese clones. Any of the microphones sold as matched pairs
are definitely suspect.

I _think_ the Chinese run was made in November, so any mikes bought before
then are definitely in the clear.

So far there seems to have been only one production run in China. My
worry is that there will probably be another one soon, knowing the Chinese
manufacturing folks.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:41:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 5r9r2$t72$1@panix2.panix.com...

> As far as I know, _all_ of the microphones sold since January or so by
> GC are the Chinese clones. Any of the microphones sold as matched pairs
> are definitely suspect.

The two I had ordered were not sold as a pair (actually, they said there
were no pairs available at this time), and were definitely the Chinese
model, based on what I've found on the Internet.

--
http://www.bobsavage.net
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:48:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks Scott,

Your statement reaffirms many of my own thoughts and
observations...even on some of my far more expensive (5 to 6 grand)
microphones that utilize a capacitive pad.

Cheers,
Chris
!