Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

FSP POWER RULES! Where have you heard this before?

Tags:
  • Power Supplies
  • Antec
  • Power
  • Components
Last response: in Components
Share
June 10, 2003 4:05:37 AM

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/power_suppli..." target="_new">The best efficiency, at 78 percent, was achieved by the FSP400-60PFN.</A>

This "400W" power supply also puts out MORE POWER than any other supply rated at up to 460W! At 452W, it outpowered even the Enermax EG465AX-VE!

You might say "But the Antec True-480P puts out 484W. Yes, but untested was Fortron's 460W power supply, which definately puts out more power than the Antec simply by reason that Fortron uses the same rating system across the entire line!

With FSP supplies you get the highest efficiency, lowest heat, greatest output for it's rating, and low noise. You also get extremely stable voltages.

FSP is one of the companies I was refering to when I said "I have OEM power supplies that leave Antecs choking".

Well, a lot of you guys ignored it, but now you have proof, Antec is a second rate company in a market full of third rate companies. There "Best" series of supplies (True Power) can't even hold a candle to Fortron's regular line. and Antec's more economical models are right down there with the generics.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

More about : fsp power rules heard

June 10, 2003 3:24:37 PM

Crash... should I bow?


I like all three of my Fortron 350's.

The only issue I can have with the article is the manufactuer's max amperage on +12V.

15A is a little less than I would want from a PSU. The sustained wattages are nice but when I need amps, I need amps.

The Antec gives 22A, the Enermax gives 33A, and the Topower gives 28A. Now that is what I call room for overclocking.

I am not downplaying the Fortron by any means. For almost any current system it would handle it well. The future is where I am looking.


<A HREF="http://www.millionmanlan.com/MMLDefault.asp" target="_new">Gaming the THG way... THG sponsors the MML2: June 25-29, 2003 in Louisville Kentucky... Be there!</A>
June 10, 2003 5:02:03 PM

Efficiency shmiffency. Does Fortron make a 550 W?
Cause i got a 550W truepower that, if the review holds true to all models, probly puts out more than 550W.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
BTW, its just a power supply, who the hell cares? I mean, theres good/decent ones and bad ones, but if its not a bad one, then it dosnt really matter.

Long live ATI.
June 10, 2003 5:24:59 PM

HA! You can get a <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=1..." target="_new">Fortron 530W unit at Newegg for $70</A>! And it puts out MORE power than your Antec 550, because it's still rated by Fortron standards! If you take it's 600W peak and subtract 21W for the -12v and -5v lines, you still have 579W!

OH, but I take it you like BIG model numbers? Their Fortron FSP550-60PLN 550W cost $86.

So now you get MORE power, LESS heat, MORE efficiency...I forgot to mention 30% lower noise levels (figure it out, every 10DB is 100% greater noise)...AND NOW THAT I SEE Antec's PRICES, D00D YOU GOT RIPPED!

You get a power supply from Fortron thats better in every way than any Antec, for 40% lower cost! Maybe you should change your nick to Antec_Sucks?

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 10, 2003 5:26:48 PM

Oh, if you would have gotten a Fortron, perhaps you wouldn't have NEEDED a "550W" power supply? I tried putting it in my pipe and smoking it, but d00d, that [-peep-] you gave me was just parsely in a zip lock bag!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 10, 2003 6:33:38 PM

Very, very nicely said

*kisses feet of Fortron*

It's all good ^_^
June 10, 2003 6:53:12 PM

I bought a Fortron P300XFPN 300W Power Supply a couple of months ago because of the 120mm fan, but now I'm worried I won't be able to use it with a new 865/RAID setup.

I figure 100W for CPU+MB
50W video card
100W for 2 SATA & 1 IDE HDD

I wonder if the other components like DVD burner and PCI cards will put me over 300W
June 10, 2003 7:46:17 PM

hi,
nice article!! just when i had the power supply figured out!! :)  oh, well....
not to make trouble, but i kinda care about the power supply ratings, as i want to put in good quality products that will work at top efficiency. i also care about saving energy and such. i also care about noise, as i get on the computer sometimes when everyone is asleep. (also, my hearing :)  )
i would like to put in a power supply that had an over 400 watts. i would like to be able to add more to this computer as time goes by. a couple of hard drives so i can bypass my external. some cool colored fans and cathods(sp?). i also want to add the dvd burner when they get it semi-perfected? and the price comes down. so if i do all of this, i would probably end up buying 2 psu's. why not buy one really great one, more power than i need now and build this system up!
ok, i know, i know zilch compared to some of the people on here. but this is a forum for discussion of components good and bad.
so, i have to go find a online store with a fortron psu!! gggg and the case the kids want grrr

i really do appreciate all the help i have received!

have to go to sons music lessons!

suzy
June 10, 2003 8:29:01 PM

Why oh why don't they put a PC Power and Cooling model in there. Jesus, I mentioned this the last time and people all agreed that they need to put that company's product in there for a comparison.

C'mon, for the love of god, test a frigin PC Power and Cooling 400W Silencer.
June 11, 2003 2:54:11 AM

PC Power & Cooling uses Fortron supplies, but they might modify the "silencer" to reduce noise.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 11, 2003 2:55:26 AM

I doubt you'll ever need two supplies. You can get a 400W Fortron as seen in the review to power the stuff you speak of. You could also get a 460W model if you want more.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 11, 2003 3:08:33 AM

Quote:
You get a power supply from Fortron thats better in every way than any Antec, for 40% lower cost! Maybe you should change your nick to Antec_Sucks?

That seemed kinda harsh! Just because Fortron makes a better PSU than Antec does not mean that Antec sucks.

Fortron's PSU is not better in EVERY way than the Antec TruePower. Each voltage rail has its' own dedicated circuit in the Antec, whereas the Fortron has the +3.3 and +5 sharing a circuit.

Antec makes a very excellent PSU (TruePower series) and it does not suck simply because there is something better. Just my $0.02.
June 11, 2003 3:17:50 AM

I'll have to see Fortron's 460W power supply in action before I make a judgement. Simple reasoning like, they use the same rating system across their entire line doesn't work.

Enermax also uses the same rating system across their line of products. Acording to Tom's hardware, the EG365AX-VE puts out more power than it claims to put out, but apparently the EG465AX-VE puts out quite a bit less power than it claims.

I got a little depressed about Tom's test results because me and quite a few of my friends have the Enermax EG465AX-VE. One of my friends is an electrical engineer. He told me that there was no significant flaw in the Tom's test setup.

However, when we ran our own tests on our PSU, similar setup, we didn't get a single one of our EG465AX-VE PSUs below the manufacture's rating. Most hit 467W.

In addition we tested two others PSUs (the other two some friends had on hand).
Fortrons 400W model had almost the same stunning results as in Tom's test (454W). Before this test, I honestly thought that they mislabeled their 460W PSU and sent it in to Tom's Hardware.
Thermaltakes 360W model got 384W (anyone surprised). Nobody seems to care about Thermaltake's line of products.
Sorry didn't have access to Antec's model as nobody I know buys them.

Seems a lot easier for lower rated power supplies to exceed their rating.
Didn't put out the effort to test voltages or power efficiencies.

Pain is the realization of your own weakness.
June 11, 2003 3:46:43 AM

Shh, I was just being harsh because it was Willy_Sucks I was speaking to. Keep it on the down low about what I just said and maybe he won't notice.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 11, 2003 3:54:28 AM

Fortron rates their power supplies at 70% load. This seems reasonable to me as 70% load should be good enough for "continuous duty". As a former Welder I'm quite familiar with "duty cycle". Other companies use peak output.

Now what confuses me is that Fortron rates their 500, 530, and 550W power supplies at 70% peak as well, yet claims that all three support 600W peak? That seems like a small flaw, perhaps their test equipment doesn't support more than 600W load...but they could always add resistors.

I would like someone to test that 550W power supply as I find the 600W peak to be unlikely given their rating system, I expect more like 650W.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 11, 2003 3:55:37 AM

lol. ok. :smile:
June 11, 2003 2:39:13 PM

I am astonished that the review and all these posts totally ignore temperature. The temperature inside a PC, especially one that needs a 400-600W PSU, is not room temperature. Power ratings are meaningless when measured at 25C. PCP&C makes that point really clear in recent ads.

--
Doug
June 11, 2003 3:33:12 PM

How come the review didn't mention anything about the "distibution" of power in each PSU? For example, the reason I bought my Antec 550W (True550) instead of the very nice (not to mention cheaper) Fortron 550W (FSP550-60PLN) is because the Fortron only supplied 27A (+3.3V), 29A (+5V), and 18A (+12V) where the Antec was 32A (+3.3V), 40A (+5V), and 24A (+12V). It seems the review was more focused on total output power, which is important, but even if a power supply puts out 800W at an efficiency rating of 90% it isn't worth squat if 750 of those watts are all on the +3.3V rail. I just would have like to have seen this talked about more.
June 11, 2003 9:36:59 PM

That's interesting. I called PCP&P and asked them where they get the PSU's but of course they wouldn't say it out right. He said they do modify their units in house. They said my 400w silencer has individual circuits for each rail and OV protection for each as well. So, if a Fortron shares a circuit for the +3.3v and +5.5v, then I'm happy that mine is seperate.

I wouldn't call a PCP&C a Fortron since they modify them in house and offer a 5 year warranty.
June 12, 2003 1:25:07 AM

Fortron uses nominal ratings (aka continuous), while Antec uses peak ratings. If you divide those numbers by .7 you'll see them get larger...and probably outweigh the Antec numbers.

What you're dealing with here is a company who prefers honesty. The reason they use continuous loads instead of peak loads is probably so you can more easily calculate the power you need based on the normal values of your parts (such as hard drives running), not the peak values (such as hard drives spinning up).

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 12, 2003 4:29:15 PM

Good point... I never realized that they were only rated at 70%.

At peak they would be able to deliver ~21A on +12V. I recall my previous gripe.



<A HREF="http://www.millionmanlan.com/MMLDefault.asp" target="_new">Gaming the THG way... THG sponsors the MML2: June 25-29, 2003 in Louisville Kentucky... Be there!</A>
June 12, 2003 5:43:07 PM

Quote:
Fortron uses nominal ratings (aka continuous), while Antec uses peak ratings. If you divide those numbers by .7 you'll see them get larger...and probably outweigh the Antec numbers.

I went to Fortron's site and read their spec sheet. In every PSU listed on that site, they state the MAX rating for each voltage. Now they could very well be under-promising and over-delivering, but they are not only stating the "continuos" ratings instead of the "peak" ratings in their specs as you have stated.
June 12, 2003 5:55:17 PM

how do you figure 3 hard drives is going to draw 100 watts? i have 11 10k rpm scsi drives running off a 230 watt psu. a very old 230 watt psu i might add.

<font color=red> black </font color=red> <font color=green> white </font color=green> <font color=blue> yellow </font color=blue> <font color=orange> purple </font color=orange> <font color=black> red </font color=black> <font color=yellow> green </font color=yellow> <font color=purple> blue </font color=purple>
June 12, 2003 10:34:05 PM

I believe you'll find that their definition of "max" is not peak, but max continous. Look at Tom's review of the 400W model and see what kind of real numbers they get.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 13, 2003 1:51:28 AM

You can read it any way you want...MAX still means MAX...as in maximum...not average or continuous. If that is what they really mean (max continuous) they really should specify it as such. Otherwise 99% of all consumers will read MAX and figure that it means maximum. So, if what you say is true, it seems Fortron is really just shooting themselves in the foot here by allowing me and countless others to believe that MAX means MAX.

BTW, I don't doubt that they do indeed put out more amps than what is listed. I also do believe they make excellent PSUs. I said before it sounds like they are under-promising and over-delivering. But you can't just expect me to know that Fortron doesn't mean MAX when they say MAX.
June 13, 2003 3:25:35 AM

Agreed!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 14, 2003 5:04:45 AM

Actually, the 78% efficiency calculation is simply WRONG! It should be <b>69.5%</b> -- based on their own info: "Fortron Source power supply draws 571 Watts when plugged into the wall to put out 397 Watts". 397 divided by 571 x 100 = 69.5% AC/DC conversion efficiency. Only question is whether the error was deliberate. Surely you'd think the editors on a site with as big a staff as this one would have seen such an obvious error especially when their recommendation of the Fortron is at least partly based on this.

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">See this post I began on the topic.</A>
June 14, 2003 5:49:44 AM

Such errors make me wonder if the typo occured in the number 571 or in the number the chart used to get 78% (since the chart came from numbers automatically calculated by the program). I should check the german website to see if the error was present in the original piece!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 14, 2003 5:59:30 AM

Quote:
I should check the german website to see if the error was present in the original piece!

It is.
June 14, 2003 6:02:40 AM

Upon reading the german review, the following has came to my attention:

There is no mention of pure numbers for the other leading power supplies. It can therefore be assumed that all the test results have a greater possibility of being erronious and the entire efficiency portion of the article must be thrown out. If they were wrong about one supply, lacking the needed information on others, we can gather no comparisons.

This is very poor editorial work. We don't know if the guy used the wrong number originally and then subtracted from it, or used the right number. At least he knew how to subtract!

So who's to say what the real numbers that were used to generate those graphs were?

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 14, 2003 6:07:54 AM

More games with math...If you use their 571 number and their max output of 452W, instead of the rated value of 400W, you come up with 79%. Which is probably close enough to 78%. So now I have to wonder if the "571W" came from their notes on max power consumption at max load, or normal power consumption at rated load...it's almost like somebody got their notes mixed up, and it's starting to look like more and more of the article is invalid!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 14, 2003 7:56:27 AM

Like I said, I have one of the Fortron 400s -- and 3 other samples of PSUs marketed by others but based on this same model. (They look identical except for fans and labels). All have similar efficiency: To deliver 400W DC, they require 560-575W AC. Very consistent.
June 14, 2003 5:14:48 PM

I'd like to see the raw numbers they used for ALL their power supplies, instead of the percentages, to get around calculation errors.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 19, 2003 10:18:27 PM

Hehe, just a standard Fortron power supply (in fact, the one Tom's tested I believe) with a low speed fan substituted. I have pleanty of low speed fans already, thanks.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 20, 2003 3:24:13 PM

Ah man this really sucks... I'm searching for a new PSU and ofcourse I looked for a Fortron first. But I can't seem to find any in The Netherlands... DAMN! I've tried for Fortron , Sparkle and FPS... nothing nada zero.

But you know them better then I, <A HREF="http://www.tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/212" target="_new">here</A> is the list of our national pricewatch. Can you take a look at it and see if you can find a Fortron originated PSU?

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 21, 2003 3:17:01 AM

I see some 300W units, but I assume you're looking for more!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 22, 2003 11:33:25 AM

Yes... atleast 400W. :frown: Well then there is probably no other choice then going for a 480W Antec.

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 23, 2003 2:32:56 AM

You could always order it from brittain.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 23, 2003 5:10:42 PM

Yeah that is in Germany, I noticed it... but I don't want to get in the trouble of ordering it in another country, the costs are pretty high often.

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 23, 2003 5:12:16 PM

Yes, but I wonder if that wont make it horrible expensive. There is a shop here at 25 minutes biking time I can get an Antec for one of the cheapest prices in the country so I think that is going to cost me to much trouble and money. :frown:

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 24, 2003 2:45:02 AM

I gotta admit that having a local shop with a good price is a great deal.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 24, 2003 4:43:19 AM

No offense Crashman but i think your taking this "FSP RULES ANTEC SUCKS" thing too seriously................

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% MATROX/INTEL EXTREME GRAPHICS Fanboy
!